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Super19

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences

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Certain life can live in places that other life cannot....is that fine-tuning for life in general?? No, it's life atuning itself to the circumstances it finds itself in. Some life can survive better than others. The ones can't, go extinct. Extinction through species competition is your biggest clue that the environment isn't fine tuned for 'life' in general.

Forget the fine tuning argument, it's a bankrupt one.

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Yeah man I think it's both. Both life and this planet are fine-tuned for each other. This planet needed to be fine-tuned in order for life (as we know it) to be possible, and then life here has been adapting for billions of years to those variables. It's a sort of symbiotic relationship.

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And the fact that life is permitted to exist at all on earth is your biggest clue that it is fine-tuned for life. No one is saying every single spot on the planet is fine-tuned for all types of life forms. The existence of uninhabitable environments does not discount the overall fine-tuning of the physical, chemical, and biological factors that permit life here and not, for example, on Jupiter.

If the planet wasn't fine-tuned there would be no species to go extinct in the first place.

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The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning

Why the Universe Is Not Designed for Us

Victor J. Stenger

A number of authors have noted that if some physical parameters were slightly changed, the universe could no longer support life, as we know it. This implies that life depends sensitively on the physics of our universe. Does this “fine-tuning” of the universe also suggest that a creator god intentionally calibrated the initial conditions of the universe such that life on earth and the evolution of humanity would eventually emerge? Some influential scientists, such as National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins, think so. Others go even further, asserting that science “has found God.”

In this in-depth, lucid discussion of this fascinating and controversial topic, physicist Victor J. Stenger looks at the same evidence and comes to the opposite conclusion. He states at the outset that as a physicist he will go wherever the data takes him, even if it leads him to God. But after many years of research in particle physics and thinking about its implications, he finds that the observations of science and our naked senses not only show no evidence for God, they provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that God does not exist.

Stenger argues that many of the claims by theists are based on their misunderstanding of the science. He looks at the specific parameters and shows that plausible reasons can be found for the values they have within the existing standard models of physics and cosmology. These models are introduced in detail so that the reader has the background needed to understand the role of the parameters claimed to be fine-tuned and judge the veracity of the arguments.

He also discusses related issues such as whether or not the universe had a beginning, what quantum mechanics implies about the involvement of human consciousness in affecting reality, and whether evidence can be found in nature for a divine plan.

Although Stenger has touched on the subject of fine-tuning in other books, this is his most thorough exploration of a topic that continues to intrigue scientists and the lay public alike.

Victor J. Stenger (Lafayette, CO) is adjunct professor of philosophy at the University of Colorado and emeritus professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Hawaii. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller God: The Failed Hypothesis, and many other books, including The New Atheism, Quantum Gods, The Unconscious Quantum, Has Science Found God?, The Comprehensible Cosmos, Timeless Reality, and Physics and Psychics.

http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/fallacy.html

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We don't know how abiogenesis works either. For all we know life may have been seeded extraterrestrially. Primitive prokaryotic bacteria could have arrived on a meteor or something and at that point it would be all adaptation.

And it's not really a symbiotic relationship. The planet is a mote of dust suspended in the vast nothingness we call the universe. It gains no benefit from us being here.

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And the fact that life is permitted to exist at all on earth is your biggest clue that it is fine-tuned for life. No one is saying every single spot on the planet is fine-tuned for all types of life forms. The existence of uninhabitable environments does not discount the overall fine-tuning of the physical, chemical, and biological factors that permit life here and not, for example, on Jupiter.

If the planet wasn't fine-tuned there would be no species to go extinct in the first place.

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Oh snap, never knew atheist here could also read minds! Pretty impressive!

/

How in the blue hell did you conclude that I am Christian? If your way out is that you didn't mean that and meant that the jokes were Christian, well, they're not, not at all....

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We believe that everyone should have the right to preach what they believe, to start a congregation, and to perform ceremonies. This is usually reserved for members of traditional religious sects. We have started a church of our own, based on our beliefs, and will provide our service of ordainment free to anyone who shares our beliefs.

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'Change the subject completely and ignore the response post cause I was wrong' - lol!

I'm out; it's so hilarious picking the brains of some people - they themselves try to pick others, but ultimately end up getting picked on :lol:

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Yo, yo, yo homeslice, perhaps you should take a dose of the very tonic that you previously prescribed to the members engaged in this thread, and "chill out".

Pour out a l'il of that liquor, ya feel me dawg?? Naw i mean?

/ suburban living gangsta hood talk

:rolleyes:

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