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Super19

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences

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If anyone wants to read some good books arguing for the theistic/deistic view with regards to Fine-Tuning of the universe check out:

God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God by John Lennox

Can Life Be Merely An Accident? by Dr. Robert Piccioni

Lennox of course is one of the world's best science and religion apologists but Piccioni doesn't talk about God at all he simply puts out the case for just how incredibly "fine-tuned" the universe has to be (and is) to support life.

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I think you missed the point that Norman was trying to make though, or are looking past it in a sense. God(s) are generally made in the image of their conjureres. It's why Hindus had Indian looking gods, why early Christians, who were Middle-Eastern Jews for all intents and purposes, had a Jew who was a Man-God, why Nordic people had Nordic looking Gods, etc...

If the Hindus of ancient India had kangaroos, there'd most likely be a kangaroo-god, instead of a monkey god or a god with an elephant's head. What would have been really profound is if Jesus was Japanese or Mexican. Now surely that would have been an impossibility that would have lended some credibility to a divine act of insemination. If Thor was a black guy, that would have been something remarkable

....BUT, none of that happened....human beings created a god or gods in their own image. They chose the manifestation of human form to look like them, because that's all they really knew.

It's all just made up stories people and your god(s) are simply characters in those stories.

The Christian God is more known because a powerful civilization adopted that story as it was most popular and on the rise to replace the pagan one that was on the decline. With the conquering of territory things like religion invariably made its way into the conquered lands and people. That's how Islam grew and how Christianity grew. If the hindus had the same lust for territory and zeolotorious proselytizing at the point of the sword, much of Asia Minor may have well been Hindu, hundreds, if not thousands of years before Christ was ever born.

It's all made up stories.

Grow up and let go of the safety blanket. Be good and kind and merciful and generous and loving for their own sake and not because some fictional, man-made god or book tells/asks/commands you too. Trust me, you be those things without the thought of someone or something judging you or watching over your shoulder, like a celestial big brother, making you feel guilty and monitored, you'll enjoy those selfless acts so much more, because they have no more reward than how it makes you feel and how it makes others feel, which is enough reward on its own.

Theism and Deism is bullsh!$.

Edit....And thus ends my Sunday sermon, please help yourself with some cookies on your way out. (Apologies for turning my response to you into a rant, Nevise.)

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Yet funny how when Xenophanes rejected the polytheistic view of the gods of the Greeks (as explanations for natural phenomenon) he still went on to say this:

"There is one God... similar to mortals neither in shape nor thought... remote and effortless he governs all there is."

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Wasn't debating whether there is one or more, only how man has given human form to something we can't begin to comprehend to make it easier for the masses to relate to. The ancient druids also apparently had a saying

"The one God has many faces"

most polytheistic cultures I am familiar with had one God who was chief among them (Odin, Zeuss, Ra) any thoughts that they and the Abrahamic God are one in the same? Just different people interpreting in different ways?

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Okay, now you're just trying way too hard to stretch things to fit into a neat little box. You would actually have more credibility if you acknowledged that the Bible isn't infallible. It would demonstrate that you actually are a logical, rational person that should be taken seriously. Instead, you've gone in the other direction. A reasonable person would not try to claim that the Bible spoke of dinosaurs.

Edit: And yes, I looked at your link. Was that website made by a sixth grader in 1996? Anyway, it's a stretch, at best. Like I said, it's not advancing your argument in any meaningful way, that's for sure.

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Wow are you and that article reaching .... But here is some facts of history about your all loving Christianity.1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ

10th Century Obscenities

Vile Princes of the Papacy

.......................

skipped to save internet bandwidth

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31 July, 2003 "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" condemns same sex deviants who seek marriage. In contrast, no Vatican condemnation of priestly paedophiles

1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ – – 1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ 1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ

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It was the first one of many that popped up - do I believe everything on that page? Nope.

BTW - the word dickhead doesn't appear in the Bible neither - doesn't mean they don't exist.

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It didn't need to appear in word form, because there were already plenty of examples of how to be a complete dickhead in the Bible, like killing a poor fig tree for not having any figs on it when Mr. Perfect Love and Peace came strolling by.

What a dick.

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dickhead*

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wow - I did not know that.

BTW, here's a link showing how more atrocities have been committed by non religious.

Luke 19.27 Not the word of the Lord? Oh yes it is!

Christian apologists squirm and wriggle over this infamous command of Jesus to murder his enemies. "It's not Jesus," they say, "It's the 'harsh master' in the parable." But is it?

Luke builds to JC's big finish in Jerusalem by having his meandering hero tell a series of parables along the way. Luke 19 is the link from Jericho to the Temple itself. In verses 1-10, near Jericho, the godman invites himself into the house of a dwarfish publican called Zacchaeus and rewards the guy with salvation after Zac' says he is going to give half his goods to the poor.

At verse 11 a new scene is set: JC is about to depart (and of course he knows crucifixion awaits him); his audience think the Kingdom of God is at hand.

JC responds with the infamous parable, which is actually an attempt by 2nd century gospel writers to deal with issues raised by the "delayed kingdom". The believing brethren have the "good news" but what are they to do with it?

The parable starts with the words "A certain man of noble birth went far to receive a kingdom. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds." Is this JC? The answer is to be found in an earlier version of the same yarn – in Matthew:

"For the Kingdom of Heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."
– 25,14

Matthew tells his version of the story using just 3 servants (they represent the Christian brethren, "servants of the Lord'). "After a long time the Lord of those servants cometh" (25.19). There is a reckoning (the Day of Judgement). The lord is well pleased with 2 of them who have successfully "earned interest on his money."

"
Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord."
– 25,21.

The third servant however, who denounces his lord as harsh, says he was "afraid" and simply hid the lord's investment. A displeased lord turns on him as a "wicked and slothful servant" (25:27).

The point of the story? This is how Matthew rounds it off:

"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

And
cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness
: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
– 25.29,30
.

In other words this so-called Parable of the Harsh Master / Parable of the Talents is a story about what Christians are to do with the "gospel" as they wait for the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven. They are to spread the word ("grow the Lord's money"), not hide it away. Correctly understood, this is the parable of the slothful servant, threatened with "outer darkness."

When Luke copied Matthew's efforts he added a new element: "reluctant citizens" of the new kingdom (no doubt he had in mind recalcitrant pagans).

"But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us."
– 19.14
.

Luke followed closely Matthew's story but replaced the final bit threatening "outer darkness" to lazy brethren with a more immediate and tangible injunction aimed at "enemies":

"I tell you, that to every one who has will more be given; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

But those
mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me
."
– 19.27
.

Where did Luke get his inspiration? A nobleman "travelling far to receive a kingdom" is a rare enough event. Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews - Book 17, chapter 11 maps the story and also provides all the ingredients for both 19.14 and 19.27.

With the death of Herod the Great, his son Archelaus – of noble birth – journeyed to Rome to "receive his kingdom" from Emperor Augustus. But at the same time an embassy of the Jews petitioned Caesar that "out of their hatred to him" Archelaus not "be set over their kingdom". Archelaus had slaughtered 3000 of his enemies at the Temple. The emperor eventually removed him and sent him into exile in 6 AD.

Josephus wrote Antiquities of the Jews around 93 AD so whoever "Luke" really was, he was certainly writing his fable later than that.

top

Sources:

Alan Hall, The History of the Papacy (PRC, 1998)

Alice K. Turner, The History of Hell (Robert Hale, 1995)

Brian P. Levack, The Witch-Hunt in Early Modern Europe ((Longman, 1995)

A.F. Ide, The Popes... (AAP, 1987)

George Scott, A History of Torture (Senate, 1995)

Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History (Morningstar & Lark, 1995)

Rothenburg (

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Blah blah blah

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Common 'attack' post made by an antitheist. Some self-labelled atheists are actually antitheist and they probably should re-label themselves if they insist on actively opposing theism.

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Common 'attack' post made by an antitheist. Some self-labelled atheists are actually antitheist and they probably should re-label themselves if they insist on actively opposing theism.

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Common 'attack' post made by an antitheist. Some self-labelled atheists are actually antitheist and they probably should re-label themselves if they insist on actively opposing theism.

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I agree. Some are sincerely antitheists and/or misotheists at the core.

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Got anything to actually say or are you just going to copy/paste ???

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