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Super19

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences

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Incorrect,some of us can throw insults while proving our points. We're veterans of the God Thread. B)

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Another argument would be that if science cannot prove something exist, then it does not exist? So science cannot prove that there are living beings outside of our planet that might be 1 million light years away from our solar system. So does that mean there are no living beings outside of our planet with 100% certainty because humans still don't have the ability to discover what is 1 million light years away from our planet? How can you say with certainty something exist or not exist when you can't even examine it just like my scenario? Now forget about what religious people say or religion for that matter and tell me if am wrong or right? Am not religious, but am just looking at this situation from a neutral point of view and questioning it.

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According to Joseph Campell myths are the dramatic projection and personification of energies which exist inside the human being. This begs the question of course, is the self nothing more than a personification of this same energy?

Is identity a tangible thing? or is it a metaphor or a story?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBwEKSO0dkI

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So you started with the first one...and then ended with the first one. Even if I gave you the first one, which I don't, the argument can still be made that atheism resembles a religious organization pretty darn close.

Buddhists don't typically believe in a God either...or sorry "lack a belief in a god" but yet they're still a religion.

If you want to pretend that lacking a belief in god automatically exempts atheism from potentially someday being classified as it's own religion then by all means go ahead. It doesn't change the fact that it does resemble a religious organization or that there are groups of atheists who not only lack a belief but also do not believe. We can't make the mistake of generalizing all atheists as simply people who lack belief, though doubtless there are many.

Just because you don't like the similarities doesn't mean you can just throw em out the window.

edit

Notice I never said atheism was a religion - similar to how deism or theism is not a religion - but atheism is certainly starting to resemble a religious organization based on how (I would say anyway) the majority of atheists carry themselves.

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What is with all the insults? You can't argue a point like a mature person? You might disagree with something, fine but don't insult people and call them idiots. Just make your point to answer their questions, no need for the extra crap added in at the end. This is why CDC has a crap reputation. No one can discuss something without getting insulted.

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or maybe we'd be extinct - like the neanderthal....

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There is no reason religion and science can't co-exist, religion is like Philosophy, problem I see is too many people feel they have to pick one side and reject the other. Religious people often tend to decide on an answer and reject anything that contradicts it, anti-theists sometimes don't like the answer they found and go looking for ways to disprove it. I have my spiritual side, but don't really practice any belief system, I try to learn from many different beliefs as well as scientific research and accept what makes sense and reject or put aside what doesn't.

Knowledge, Intelligence, and Wisdom are three totally different things, many of the posters I have seen on this thread have plenty of knowledge but seem to be short on the other two. Knowledge is useless without the intelligence to apply it, intelligence can be outright dangerous without the wisdom to apply (or not apply) it responsibly.

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you are right, there probably is life outside the solar system.. no way for us to prove there is or isnt right now.. HOWEVER.. there's a HUGE difference in saying "we cant prove there is or isnt LIFE elsewhere" and "we cant prove if there is or isnt some random magical all seeing all knowing sky babysitter who created everything"

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There is no reason religion and science can't co-exist, religion is like Philosophy, problem I see is too many people feel they have to pick one side and reject the other. Religious people often tend to decide on an answer and reject anything that contradicts it, anti-theists sometimes don't like the answer they found and go looking for ways to disprove it. I have my spiritual side, but don't really practice any belief system, I try to learn from many different beliefs as well as scientific research and accept what makes sense and reject or put aside what doesn't.

Knowledge, Intelligence, and Wisdom are three totally different things, many of the posters I have seen on this thread have plenty of knowledge but seem to be short on the other two. Knowledge is useless without the intelligence to apply it, intelligence can be outright dangerous without the wisdom to apply (or not apply) it responsibly.

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Sharps delivery definitely is not the most subtle but after missing his clear and logical points time and time again I cannot blame him. I imagine others who share similar views backed by scientific evidence are deeply insulted and infuriated by the fables of religious sheep who have no real proof to back up their claims of supernatural deities and their supposed creation of the universe. We live in an age of gathered information, tests and results. Show us some valid science, axioms if you will on the matter and maybe the response wont be so harsh. It is like telling me to my face while outside staring at the blue sky and you say it is green.

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There is no reason religion and science can't co-exist, religion is like Philosophy, problem I see is too many people feel they have to pick one side and reject the other. Religious people often tend to decide on an answer and reject anything that contradicts it, anti-theists sometimes don't like the answer they found and go looking for ways to disprove it. I have my spiritual side, but don't really practice any belief system, I try to learn from many different beliefs as well as scientific research and accept what makes sense and reject or put aside what doesn't.

Knowledge, Intelligence, and Wisdom are three totally different things, many of the posters I have seen on this thread have plenty of knowledge but seem to be short on the other two. Knowledge is useless without the intelligence to apply it, intelligence can be outright dangerous without the wisdom to apply (or not apply) it responsibly.

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Everyone should read these essays on "Does Science Make a Belief in God Obsolete":

http://www.templeton.org/belief/

Some very smart and influential people wrote these like Pinker, Hitchens, Miller just to name a few.

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There are plenty of reasons why science and religion can't and don't coexist. The biggest one being that religion is a device that puts forth absolute truth claims about the natural world without any credible evidence. Science does the work necessary before making a claim and even then rarely deals in absolutisms. That's a pretty big conflict if you think about it, and it's primarily one of the chief reasons why religion is left at the parking lot before entering the place of scientific advancement, or not brought to work at all. There's a reason why 83% of the general public believe in a personal god, while only 33% of all scientists believe in a personal god. And the odd thing isn't why so many scientists don't believe, it's why a staggering 33% do??

I don't think there's any problem in spirituality coexisting with science though. And by spirituality, I mean the ability to feel a deep transcending profoundness or connectivity to nature, or your fellow human, or all humans, or even all life, or of experiencing and appreciating the beauty of nature, art, knowledge, etc, in a deep personally emotional and moving way. I certainly don't mean anything supernatural by the placeholder word 'spiritual', if you catch my intention.

I definitely don't think science and spirituality in that sense aren't able to co-exist, but I'd argue that the false truth claims and dogma of religions are not able to coexist with science.

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There is no reason religion and science can't co-exist, religion is like Philosophy, problem I see is too many people feel they have to pick one side and reject the other. Religious people often tend to decide on an answer and reject anything that contradicts it, anti-theists sometimes don't like the answer they found and go looking for ways to disprove it. I have my spiritual side, but don't really practice any belief system, I try to learn from many different beliefs as well as scientific research and accept what makes sense and reject or put aside what doesn't.

Knowledge, Intelligence, and Wisdom are three totally different things, many of the posters I have seen on this thread have plenty of knowledge but seem to be short on the other two. Knowledge is useless without the intelligence to apply it, intelligence can be outright dangerous without the wisdom to apply (or not apply) it responsibly.

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There are plenty of reasons why science and religion can't and don't coexist. The biggest one being that religion is a device that puts forth absolute truth claims about the natural world without any credible evidence. Science does the work necessary before making a claim and even then rarely deals in absolutisms. That's a pretty big conflict if you think about it, and it's primarily one of the chief reasons why religion is left at the parking lot before entering the place of scientific advancement, or not brought to work at all. There's a reason why 83% of the general public believe in a personal god, while only 33% of all scientists believe in a personal god. And the odd thing isn't why so many scientists don't believe, it's why a staggering 33% do??

I don't think there's any problem in spirituality coexisting with science though. And by spirituality, I mean the ability to feel a deep transcending profoundness or connectivity to nature, or your fellow human, or all humans, or even all life, or of experiencing and appreciating the beauty of nature, art, knowledge, etc, in a deep personally emotional and moving way. I certainly don't mean anything supernatural by the placeholder word 'spiritual', if you catch my intention.

I definitely don't think science and spirituality in that sense aren't able to co-exist, but I'd argue that the false truth claims and dogma of religions are not able to coexist with science.

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The fact that you deny even the possibility that science and religion can coexist mainly reveals a lack of imagination on your part. For example, can you imagine someone who supports the scientific exploration of knowledge while at the same time having a religious belief in a higher power? I can...in fact I know many people who maintain such a dichotomy in their worldview. Stating that such a dichotomy is non-scientific or even "impossible" reveals a mistaken belief in what science is: that is not science, that is scientism.

Someone who supposedly has a worldview built entirely on science who holds fast to such a non-scientific conclusion (that science and relgion can not co-exist) is a little ironic, no?

I think this is a an apt point by the eminent C.S. Lewis:

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