Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


  • Please log in to reply
2034 replies to this topic

#811 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

I pity those who don't see purpose in life. Without a creator, there is only life, but no reason for it.


I pity those people whose purpose in life is revealed to them through a book of fairy-tales.

If you're unable to find a reason for living without a creator, then you should get a hobby, at the least.
  • 3

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#812 Fathoms

Fathoms

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,549 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 03

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

I wonder how Sam Harris would feel if I attended one of his lectures naked.
  • 0
wordings...

#813 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,889 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:47 PM

And without critical wisdom and moral thought we would have destroyed each other with nuclear bombs. Science needs guidance. Not sure if you get this or not, but scientific study does not produce moral foundation.

You didn't answer my question. Here it is again:


Quote

If we can clone human beings at 100% success rate, should we make clones of ourselves so we can "farm" them for organs/limbs in an attempt to secure our future livelihood? Why or why not? What foundation do you have to reach this conclusion?

Actually, science would dictate the consequences of nuclear attack more than anything else.

It's not complicated, really. Was it moral to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki? Many would argue no. But if you weigh that against the cost of what the invasion of Japan would be, then it was good afterall. And if you're referring to modern day nuclear attack and fallout, well that's pretty simple too. It's called mutually assured destruction. Every action has a reaction.


I thought i did answer your question when i said man's quest for immortality supersedes all, but whatever. The point i was originally making, applied to your question, is that while you and i argue about whether it's alright to farm cloned humans for organs, the science is being developed and implemented regardless.

I can see S.H's point. Philosophy is dead because it's well behind modern science. Partially because nobody wants to invest in people talking about things we shouldn't be doing. Instead, the money's going towards figuring out how to do things we haven't done before.

Who needs a God when you can [/i]be[/i] a God? - This, i'm afraid, is going to be the motto of the human race in the not-so-distant future. At least for those embracing the science. I suppose the poor will still have morality though. Yay.
  • 0
Posted Image

#814 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,889 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

I pity those who don't see purpose in life. Without a creator, there is only life, but no reason for it.

Unfortunately, without proof of a creator, the 'reason' you have for life is a sham. So what's better?

If the choice is inconvenient truths or reassuring lies, then most people will choose reassuring lies. This is human nature. Most of us don't want to be 'freed of the matrix.'

Theists would have the purpose of life being 'to die and be with God.' Atheists would have the purpose of life being 'to die and rot.' However, if you find the purpose in life is 'to learn', then what exactly is wrong with that?

Learn. Grow. Change. Overcome. These are things that are the basis of what makes us human. Yet, we're willing to toss that aside because we think we know what happens when we die? Arrogance. Yes, you can learn in a spiritual way as well. But that search should come from within, not dictated by some 'fairy tale' (thanks, ss).

We are living in a time of ever-increasing danger due to battles bewteen religions and science. But when the two worlds come together for the collective good, that opens the door to endless possibilities. ie. Learning without prejudice.

Meanwhile, some of the best people in our history were agnostic. Einstein, Da Vinci, Newton, Hawking, Galileo, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Shakespeare: Represent the best of what we have to offer. All agnostic.

Seems to me that when we put aside our petty differences and instead focus on learning, we are capable of true greatness. That is the path that we should take, is it not?
  • 0
Posted Image

#815 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:46 PM

I pity those people whose purpose in life is revealed to them through a book of fairy-tales.

If you're unable to find a reason for living without a creator, then you should get a hobby, at the least.

Like joining a religion!
  • 0
Posted Image
Posted Image

#816 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:10 PM

Like joining a religion!


Or the 'Save The Dolphins' organization.

A truly porpoise driven life if ever there was one.
  • 1

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff


#817 Buddhas Hand

Buddhas Hand

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,286 posts
  • Joined: 19-December 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

I pity those who don't see purpose in life. Without a creator, there is only life, but no reason for it.


The purpose in life is to be the best you can be ,and treat others with the dignity and respect you like to be afforded
  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#818 Gumballthechewy

Gumballthechewy

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:03 PM

I pity those who don't see purpose in life. Without a creator, there is only life, but no reason for it.


If that's what you want to believe that's fine.
  • 0

Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#819 Fathoms

Fathoms

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,549 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 03

Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

I pity those who don't see purpose in life. Without a creator, there is only life, but no reason for it.


This is an argument from consequence. What's more, it doesn't even make sense. You reduce the experience of being alive to that of being a contest on American Idol. Except instead of being judged by Simon Cowell, we are judged by God. As if the thoughts and actions of another entity is what gives our life purpose, and animates us, and gives life it's color. This is an illusion that is only possible if you have first been massively dissociated from the depth, power and beauty of your own nature. Of what you are. For it's own sake. And not for it's ability to satisfy some sky-daddy who hasn't fulfilled his own purpose and so tries to live vicariously through his creations, and forces his enmeshment issues on to them. Talk about a gong show. The creator needs a girlfriend or something. Someone who is equal to him and won't allow themselves to be pushed around. I think then he might mature a little and understand the basic fact that purpose is an organic process that plays itself out from within, not something that can be magically bestowed upon you because of the verbal incantations of a magic man with a dictator complex. .
  • 1
wordings...

#820 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:31 PM

I pity those people whose purpose in life is revealed to them through a book of fairy-tales.

If you're unable to find a reason for living without a creator, then you should get a hobby, at the least.


Way to misunderstand what I said. I wasn't meaning my life specifically, but all life in general.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#821 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

The purpose in life is to be the best you can be ,and treat others with the dignity and respect you like to be afforded


But without a creator, what would be the purpose to this even?
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#822 Tom-The-Great

Tom-The-Great

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 12

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:38 PM

But without a creator, what would be the purpose to this even?


why does there have to be a purpose?

Edited by Tom-The-Great, 18 September 2012 - 08:39 PM.

  • 0

#823 Nevlach

Nevlach

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,022 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 05

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:39 PM

whoa

Member name Posts Sharpshooter 182 dajusta 63 Heretic 57 Super19 54 BUREV 44 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo 34 VICanucksfan5551 31 Nevlach 31
  • 0
Posted Image
Posted Image

#824 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:47 PM

why does there have to be a purpose?


Would you prefer if life had no meaning? I certainly wouldn't.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#825 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:48 PM

whoa

Member name Posts Sharpshooter 182 dajusta 63 Heretic 57 Super19 54 BUREV 44 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo 34 VICanucksfan5551 31 Nevlach 31


Wow, there's quite a few of us wasting a lot of time :lol:
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#826 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:00 PM

Would you prefer if life had no meaning? I certainly wouldn't.


Unfortunately, we can't live in a world based on what makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside.
  • 0

#827 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:12 PM

Unfortunately, we can't live in a world based on what makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside.


So you believe life has no meaning?

I don't know if there is a creator or not, but the world makes more sense if it is here for a reason.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#828 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:15 PM

So you believe life has no meaning?

I don't know if there is a creator or not, but the world makes more sense if it is here for a reason.


I believe life has whatever meaning you put into it. I don't think there is an objective meaning.
  • 0

#829 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:18 PM

This is an argument from consequence. What's more, it doesn't even make sense. You reduce the experience of being alive to that of being a contest on American Idol. Except instead of being judged by Simon Cowell, we are judged by God. As if the thoughts and actions of another entity is what gives our life purpose, and animates us, and gives life it's color. This is an illusion that is only possible if you have first been massively dissociated from the depth, power and beauty of your own nature. Of what you are. For it's own sake. And not for it's ability to satisfy some sky-daddy who hasn't fulfilled his own purpose and so tries to live vicariously through his creations, and forces his enmeshment issues on to them. Talk about a gong show. The creator needs a girlfriend or something. Someone who is equal to him and won't allow themselves to be pushed around. I think then he might mature a little and understand the basic fact that purpose is an organic process that plays itself out from within, not something that can be magically bestowed upon you because of the verbal incantations of a magic man with a dictator complex. .


Not an argument from consequence. It's an argument for lifestyle.

Why live without intrinsic meaning?

Why do anything in life?

Why not just roll over and die?

Deep down you believe you DO have purpose, which drives you. Trust me, I have a friend who seriously has no purpose in life and he can't sleep at night. He goes days on end without sleeping, just contemplating what his priorities are and why. He has admitted to me that he is so empty inside. He says he doesn't know his purpose.
  • 0
I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#830 dajusta

dajusta

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,910 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 03

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

And your proselyting is what's wrong with your religion. You do it by hook or by crook, like every other scam artist or cult out there.

There's no difference between what you Christians who proselytize at the end of a checkbook do in Africa and other places around the modern world versus what past Christians did at the end of a blade in Europe and around the world long ago.

At least you have the dignity to call it what it is..... a command to recruit customers to buy the product that you've bought into for the profits of those in control of the means of manufacturing of said product.

What a scam. The largest Ponzi scheme ever perpetrated on humanity, and you sucker recruiters don't even really see a dime and do it for a reward in 'another life'....*wink wink*.

How so many smart people can be so dumb is astounding and never ceases to amaze and entertain me.


What do I gain for your salvation?

It is not a scam, in which you should watch how condescending you are, because if said to a Libyan you might have just caused another American citizen to die.

If its a scam to tell the truth, then I'm sorry for being honest ;)

See, this is what I'm talking about, you feel the need for everybody to believe in your beliefs and you try to belittle those who don't.

The closed minded people are the ones who can't accept that people believe in something they don't.


Do you smoke? Do you know someone whom you love smoke?

Do you care if this person is causing damage to his/her health? Would you feel ill if you let those around you perish?

You may disagree with Christians, but it's basically it. There is a truth that saves lives. You may not believe it, but we do. So if it's our genuine and honest care that bugs you, the sorry. You have to live with it. We live in a culture that cares for each other, and that's the cost of it. You are pestered by people that care about you. If you don't like it, then you can live in another country.
  • 0
I'm Christian
I won't judge you
No one is perfect
Only through Jesus
Will we find Truth

#831 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:34 PM

I believe life has whatever meaning you put into it. I don't think there is an objective meaning.


But in the end, aren't all your efforts worthless if you are to rot in the ground for eternity? Which is why I think there has to be more to life.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#832 Tom-The-Great

Tom-The-Great

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 12

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:37 PM

Not an argument from consequence. It's an argument for lifestyle.

Why live without intrinsic meaning?

Why do anything in life?

Why not just roll over and die?

Deep down you believe you DO have purpose, which drives you. Trust me, I have a friend who seriously has no purpose in life and he can't sleep at night. He goes days on end without sleeping, just contemplating what his priorities are and why. He has admitted to me that he is so empty inside. He says he doesn't know his purpose.


oh, you have a friend who feels xxxxxx and yyyyyy

well, that changes everything! :picard:

I can tell you that I know there is no "meaning" to life.. life is what you make it. Thats it. And I sleep like a baby.
  • 0

#833 Tom-The-Great

Tom-The-Great

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 12

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:38 PM

But in the end, aren't all your efforts worthless if you are to rot in the ground for eternity? Which is why I think there has to be more to life.


you keep saying there HAS to be more to life... but why? because you want there to be isnt a valid reason....
  • 0

#834 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:39 PM

What do I gain for your salvation?

It is not a scam, in which you should watch how condescending you are, because if said to a Libyan you might have just caused another American citizen to die.

If its a scam to tell the truth, then I'm sorry for being honest ;)



Do you smoke? Do you know someone whom you love smoke?

Do you care if this person is causing damage to his/her health? Would you feel ill if you let those around you perish?

You may disagree with Christians, but it's basically it. There is a truth that saves lives. You may not believe it, but we do. So if it's our genuine and honest care that bugs you, the sorry. You have to live with it. We live in a culture that cares for each other, and that's the cost of it. You are pestered by people that care about you. If you don't like it, then you can live in another country.


Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Posted Image

I sure feel the love.
  • 0

#835 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:41 PM

But in the end, aren't all your efforts worthless if you are to rot in the ground for eternity? Which is why I think there has to be more to life.


I don't consider them worthless. I try to live my life to the fullest and enjoy every moment I have. Just because it comes to an end doesn't make it worthless.
  • 0

#836 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:42 PM

Unfortunately, without proof of a creator, the 'reason' you have for life is a sham. So what's better?

If the choice is inconvenient truths or reassuring lies, then most people will choose reassuring lies. This is human nature. Most of us don't want to be 'freed of the matrix.'

Theists would have the purpose of life being 'to die and be with God.' Atheists would have the purpose of life being 'to die and rot.' However, if you find the purpose in life is 'to learn', then what exactly is wrong with that?

Learn. Grow. Change. Overcome. These are things that are the basis of what makes us human. Yet, we're willing to toss that aside because we think we know what happens when we die? Arrogance. Yes, you can learn in a spiritual way as well. But that search should come from within, not dictated by some 'fairy tale' (thanks, ss).

We are living in a time of ever-increasing danger due to battles bewteen religions and science. But when the two worlds come together for the collective good, that opens the door to endless possibilities. ie. Learning without prejudice.

Meanwhile, some of the best people in our history were agnostic. Einstein, Da Vinci, Newton, Hawking, Galileo, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Shakespeare: Represent the best of what we have to offer. All agnostic.

Seems to me that when we put aside our petty differences and instead focus on learning, we are capable of true greatness. That is the path that we should take, is it not?


You have some good points there. Keep in mind though that I'm not claiming I know the answer, I've either been saying what I believe or that no one has the answer.

And if the meaning of life is to learn, what is the point in learning if you won't remember any of it after death? (According to atheists anyway).

And I really like that last sentence there. This is a good way of thinking. I don't like it when people claim they have irrefutable evidence for either side of the argument. I don't have proof of a creator, just like no one can disprove a creator. It's a petty argument that will only end when people realize this.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#837 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:46 PM

you keep saying there HAS to be more to life... but why? because you want there to be isnt a valid reason....


I said I think there has to be more to life. That doesn't mean there is, nor am I claiming that I know. I just think it makes more sense for there to be more to life than what we are currently living.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#838 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,369 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

I don't consider them worthless. I try to live my life to the fullest and enjoy every moment I have. Just because it comes to an end doesn't make it worthless.


But why do something if you won't remember doing it? I'm not saying you shouldn't cherish every moment of life (because I like how you enjoy life) but wouldn't it make more sense if you could remember all the great things you did with your life?
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#839 Tom-The-Great

Tom-The-Great

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 280 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 12

Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:14 PM

your argument makes no sense at all... just because you want something, doesnt mean thats the way it is.. yes, it would be fantastic if we could live forever and remember everything we did. but just because that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside doesnt mean it's the way things are. The ONLY reason to think something like that happens is because some 2000 year old book told you that.
  • 0

#840 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,379 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 07

Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:17 PM

Way to misunderstand what I said. I wasn't meaning my life specifically, but all life in general.


I don't believe I singled you out specifically. Way to uncomprehendingly internalize.
  • 0

Posted Image Pittsburgh Penguins - CDC GML Posted Image


"My goal is to win the Stanley Cup, and after the offer I received from Buffalo, I believe this is the best place to make it happen." - Christian Ehrhoff





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.