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Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


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#1021 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:56 PM

All species eventually go extinct.


God eventually takes in his loved ones when life ends too.

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#1022 Bitter Melon

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:57 PM

God eventually takes in his loved ones when life ends too.


Or sends them to burn for all time because they didn't kiss his ass hard enough.

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#1023 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:58 PM

Me - our planet sustains life

You - evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me - ?

Evolution does not refute the fact that our planet can sustain life. Because our planet can sustain life, it is considered fine tuned. Extraordinary. Unique. What does evolution have to do with it?


...it must have been sustained from all the exact chemicals he and many other scientists combined during the 'big bang' :bigblush:

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#1024 Bitter Melon

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:59 PM

Me - our planet sustains life

You - evolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me - ?

Evolution does not refute the fact that our planet can sustain life. Because our planet can sustain life, it is considered fine tuned. Extraordinary. Unique. What does evolution have to do with it?


Your argument is that someone designed our Universe planet just so we can live on it. Which is ridiculously egocentric. My argument is that we evolved to fit the conditions of the planet.

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#1025 dajusta

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:59 PM

God eventually takes in his loved ones when life ends too.


In fact the universe is approaching max entropy eventually so everything will die. In about a gazillion years though.

Though impending death does not refute God's existence or purpose. He is eternal and Christians preach about life after death anyways. It's such a sleight of hand for atheists to argue imminent death = disproves God.
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#1026 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:01 AM

Or sends them to burn for all time because they didn't kiss his ass hard enough.


Before you said God doesn't exist, yet now you say God "sends them out to burn". So this means you do believe in God yea but at the same time don't? Makes perfect sense.

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#1027 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:03 AM

Your argument is that someone designed our Universe planet just so we can live on it. Which is ridiculously egocentric. My argument is that we evolved to fit the conditions of the planet.


Alright let's take you slowly through mental gymnastics.

This universe, galaxy, and planet is fine tuned in more than just one way. Our earth is perfect distance from the Sun. The previously mentioned article used the term "habitable zone". How do you evolve that?

Our planet has the perfect meteor belt surrounding us that protects us from hundreds of disaster meteors annually. How do you evolve that?

Our universe is not expanding or collapsing at life inhibiting rates, at which is more math than you can even fathom. How do you evolve that?

If we can seriously evolve from those things, then every planet should have life.

The fact that life is even permittable in this galaxy, in this universe alone is indication that it has been carefully fine tuned.

Edited by dajusta, 20 September 2012 - 12:07 AM.

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#1028 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:05 AM

Before you said God doesn't exist, yet now you say God "sends them out to burn". So this means you do believe in God yea but at the same time don't? Makes perfect sense.


I love this perspective.

The atheist think they can contradict God himself by making him look bad.. But how can a mere finite human condemn a infinite God?

Another sleight of hand by atheists.
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#1029 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

In fact the universe is approaching max entropy eventually so everything will die. In about a gazillion years though.

Though impending death does not refute God's existence or purpose. He is eternal and Christians preach about life after death anyways. It's such a sleight of hand for atheists to argue imminent death = disproves God.


I was serious though. Everything will end some day, and God will take in his loved ones...eventually, everything happens and it so happens that God knows it before anyone...

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#1030 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:12 AM

Alright let's take you slowly through mental gymnastics.

This universe, galaxy, and planet is fine tuned in more than just one way. Our earth is perfect distance from the Sun. The previously mentioned article used the term "habitable zone". How do you evolve that?

Our planet has the perfect meteor belt surrounding us that protects us from hundreds of disaster meteors annually. How do you evolve that?

Our universe is not expanding or collapsing at life inhibiting rates, at which is more math than you can even fathom. How do you evolve that?

If we can seriously evolve from those things, then every planet should have life.

The fact that life is even permittable in this galaxy, in this universe alone is indication that it has been carefully fine tuned.



...must be evolution LOL!

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#1031 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:13 AM

That article just puts more weight on the fact that our planet is extraordinary and fine tuned.

The upshot is that scientists might not need to pin their hopes for alien lifeon a planet like Earth, whose circular orbit keeps it in the middle of the habitable zone all the time.



But we aren't. So my argument stands as our planet and galaxy is fine tuned while your argument banks on the condition of everyone's death.

Need I say more?


Way to ignore the bulk of that one. The world's climate is forever changing and it will determine the length of our existence. God doesn't appear to be stopping it on our behalf.

Are you going to answer my question about Noah or is that Evangelical cryptonite?
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#1032 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:16 AM

Way to ignore the bulk of that one. The world's climate is forever changing and it will determine the length of our existence. God doesn't appear to be stopping it on our behalf.

Are you going to answer my question about Noah or is that Evangelical cryptonite?


The universe is approaching max entropy in which the universe will die.

This does not refute God.

I don't know what you're logical premise is.

Perhaps its "why would a loving God create something that will die?" If so, then physical creation itself is not meant to be eternal, only God is. The other only thing that is eternal is the soul.. life after death. Something you folks probably wish not to talk about.

Edited by dajusta, 20 September 2012 - 12:16 AM.

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#1033 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

Way to ignore the bulk of that one. The world's climate is forever changing and it will determine the length of our existence. God doesn't appear to be stopping it on our behalf.

Are you going to answer my question about Noah or is that Evangelical cryptonite?



Sorry, but that's not the topic of discussion at the moment, this is:

Alright let's take you slowly through mental gymnastics.

This universe, galaxy, and planet is fine tuned in more than just one way. Our earth is perfect distance from the Sun. The previously mentioned article used the term "habitable zone". How do you evolve that?

Our planet has the perfect meteor belt surrounding us that protects us from hundreds of disaster meteors annually. How do you evolve that?

Our universe is not expanding or collapsing at life inhibiting rates, at which is more math than you can even fathom. How do you evolve that?

If we can seriously evolve from those things, then every planet should have life.

The fact that life is even permittable in this galaxy, in this universe alone is indication that it has been carefully fine tuned.



...if anyone can answer each paragraph/question listed in that quote with a reasonable answer, I will say atheists are the supreme beings from us religious fools. Don't want some bs links, 2 page answers, just something reasonable. Challenge is on the table - we're in the drivers seat at the moment and cruising this topic of discussion.

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#1034 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:22 AM

The universe is approaching max entropy in which the universe will die.

This does not refute God.

I don't know what you're logical premise is.

Perhaps its "why would a loving God create something that will die?" If so, then physical creation itself is not meant to be eternal, only God is. The other only thing that is eternal is the soul.. life after death. Something you folks probably wish not to talk about.


Who the hell is talking about the universe? I am talking about a world supposedly fined tuned for our existence that will become uninhabitable for humans in a very short time. Sweet design Jesus.

Edited by JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo, 20 September 2012 - 12:29 AM.

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#1035 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

Sorry, but that's not the topic of discussion at the moment, this is:




...if anyone can answer each paragraph/question listed in that quote with a reasonable answer, I will say atheists are the supreme beings from us religious fools. Don't want some bs links, 2 page answers, just something reasonable. Challenge is on the table - we're in the drivers seat at the moment and cruising this topic of discussion.


Can we all agree to ignore this guy?
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#1036 Bitter Melon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:24 AM

Before you said God doesn't exist, yet now you say God "sends them out to burn". So this means you do believe in God yea but at the same time don't? Makes perfect sense.


Oh wow. I said that because that's what YOU believe.

...must be evolution LOL!


Oh look, by your logic this means you believe in evolution.

Alright let's take you slowly through mental gymnastics.

This universe, galaxy, and planet is fine tuned in more than just one way. Our earth is perfect distance from the Sun. The previously mentioned article used the term "habitable zone". How do you evolve that?

Our planet has the perfect meteor belt surrounding us that protects us from hundreds of disaster meteors annually. How do you evolve that?

Our universe is not expanding or collapsing at life inhibiting rates, at which is more math than you can even fathom. How do you evolve that?

If we can seriously evolve from those things, then every planet should have life.

The fact that life is even permittable in this galaxy, in this universe alone is indication that it has been carefully fine tuned.


Again, you misunderstand cause and effect. The sun is not the perfect distance away from the Earth so Humans can flourish. Humans have flourished because of the distance of the sun. If the Earth were closer are further and life developed on it, it would be completely different. And they could say that the Earth is the perfect distance for them to develop, therefore a cosmic being must have put it in that specific position for them.

Same argument goes for the asteroid belt.

And the matter of the universe collapsing and expanding is information we're trying to understand and researching. But instead of learning you're content to just say "God did it".

I love this perspective.

The atheist think they can contradict God himself by making him look bad.. But how can a mere finite human condemn a infinite God?

Another sleight of hand by atheists.


Easily. http://www.goatstar....mmanded-by-god/

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#1037 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:26 AM

When did I say Jesus = God? I'm not even Christian, just a God believer in general, you know, the one and only who created everything...

And your late, cause we're - unfortunately for you - talking about how God has created an
impossible circumstance suitable for life and existence.

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#1038 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:27 AM

Without people on earth for god to toy with and praise him why would it continue to exist? Maybe he'll play farmville with the animals for a while but what then?
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#1039 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:27 AM

Can we all agree to ignore this guy?


It's what all the atheists say when they're stumped and got nowhere to go..

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#1040 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:27 AM

Who the hell is talking about the universe? I am talking about a world supposedly fined tuned for our existence that will become uninhabitable by humans in a very short time. Sweet design Jesus.


There is a cosmological constant that is at such a fine degree that any bigger would cause the universe to either expand or collapse so much that solar systems would not survive.

You wanna talk just planetary scale? Alright, how come there's no life on Mars? Shouldn't life have existed on Mars? Evolution right?
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#1041 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:31 AM

Oh wow. I said that because that's what YOU believe.

Oh look, by your logic this means you believe in evolution.


Again, you misunderstand cause and effect. The sun is not the perfect distance away from the Earth so Humans can flourish. Humans have flourished because of the distance of the sun. If the Earth were closer are further and life developed on it, it would be completely different. And they could say that the Earth is the perfect distance for them to develop, therefore a cosmic being must have put it in that specific position for them.

Same argument goes for the asteroid belt.


Why isn't there life on Mars? A little bit farther from the sun.. has ice caps.. looks to be the right size planet.. definitely looks like Earth to be honest..

Your argument just collapsed.
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#1042 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:31 AM

Holy crap, whoosh.... I'm going to bed.
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#1043 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:32 AM

If the Earth were closer are further and life developed on it, it would be completely different. And they could say that the Earth is the perfect distance for them to develop, therefore a cosmic being must have put it in that specific position for them.


Funny how you use this as an alternative out - science made it up, anything 'could' happen according to science, just like how some random molecules joined together, fuzed, and set off a massive dynamite and created us. ...you have 0 credibility even saying this...push us closer to the sun and let's see what happens..

Edited by Datsyukian Dangle, 20 September 2012 - 12:36 AM.

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#1044 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:34 AM

Holy crap, whoosh.... I'm going to bed.


Damn, he believes in a "holy" existence as well....don't quite get how he can believe in it and yet not...oh well.


And that's a horrible way to hide from something you can't answer lol. :picard:

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#1045 Bitter Melon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:41 AM

There is a cosmological constant that is at such a fine degree that any bigger would cause the universe to either expand or collapse so much that solar systems would not survive.

You wanna talk just planetary scale? Alright, how come there's no life on Mars? Shouldn't life have existed on Mars? Evolution right?


I can't tell you because we don't know how abiogenesis works. However because we don't know we shouldn't just accept the simplest answer that God dun' it. Scientists are working on researching it now.

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#1046 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:43 AM

I can't tell you because we don't know how abiogenesis works. However because we don't know we shouldn't just accept the simplest answer that God dun' it. Scientists are working on researching it now.


So you have faith in atheism.

Say it.



















---

Faith is not foolish. You can have faith in atheism and it's fine. As long as you atheists and agnostics finally give up the accusation that faith is dumb. Faith in Christianity isn't blind. Just as faith in atheism isn't blind either. There are credible evidences towards what we believe in. I've considered yours. Now consider mine.

Edited by dajusta, 20 September 2012 - 12:45 AM.

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#1047 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:51 AM

He mysteriously left lol.

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#1048 Duodenum

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:52 AM

Why isn't there life on Mars? A little bit farther from the sun.. has ice caps.. looks to be the right size planet.. definitely looks like Earth to be honest..

Your argument just collapsed.

There's about 3 kajillion planets that fall within the habitable zone so I don't really see what you're going for there.
Furthermore, it's never been tested that parameter changes will increase/decrease chances of life forming. You change one parameter and others will change with it. There have been models formed that showed that even with 100 fold changes in a parameter, stars still formed. To claim one way or the other is just hypothesizing. You don't really know, nor does whomever you got this info from, it's an argument based on guessing.
We don't know whether the Earth is the only planet with life on it as well. Just as likely as it was to have life form here, it is equally as likely it could have formed somewhere else. Just that wouldn't make us unique anymore, but rare. It's also odd that one would say that the universe is fine-tuned for life, when 99.999999999999999999% of the universe is "fine-tuned" for just the opposite.

Edited by Duodenum, 20 September 2012 - 12:55 AM.

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#1049 Datsyukian Dangle

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:58 AM

Never said Earth is the only fine tuned planet. There are other planets with life on it - my personal say - just that these rare places have been fine tuned for existence otherwise every planet we see would have existence; not the case though. Can't explain why some planets have life whereas others don't.

Edited by Datsyukian Dangle, 20 September 2012 - 01:02 AM.

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#1050 dajusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:59 AM

There's about 3 kajillion planets that fall within the habitable zone so I don't really see what you're going for there.
Furthermore, it's never been tested that parameter changes will increase/decrease chances of life forming. You change one parameter and others will change with it. There have been models formed that showed that even with 100 fold changes in a parameter, stars still formed. To claim one way or the other is just hypothesizing. You don't really know, nor does whomever you got this info from, it's an argument based on guessing.
We don't know whether the Earth is the only planet with life on it as well. Just as likely as it was to have life form here, it is equally as likely it could have formed somewhere else. Just that wouldn't make us unique anymore, but rare. It's also odd that one would say that the universe is fine-tuned for life, when 99.999999999999999999% of the universe is "fine-tuned" for just the opposite.


Mars is a planet that is possibly most capable of sustaining life, but does not.

It is a widely accepted notion in science that our planet is a rare and unique planet. There is some disagreement, but those scientists have faith in finding one eventually. BTW this is not to mention sentient life - that's a whole different discussion.

The fact that we haven't found life is a very safe hypothesis and lends credence to the fact that this galaxy is fine tuned.

And on the asteroid belt, it's a gravitational relationship between Jupiter and the asteroids that protect the Merucy, Venus, Earth and Mars from not being subject to destructive asteroids. Something infinitismally rare.

The universe is fine tuned for life. Any different and it could have not supported galaxies. It's the cosmological constant.

Edited by dajusta, 20 September 2012 - 01:01 AM.

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