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Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


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#1921 Pineapples

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

So me saying that your claim has no basis is the evidence means that I'm making a positive claim? No, I'm just saying your claim is very weak.

The post you quoted was referring to subjective reasons.


You said it would be nice if there was meaning. That's making or at least strongly implying a positive claim.

You said objective right in the post I quoted...
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#1922 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

You said it would be nice if there was meaning. That's making or at least strongly implying a positive claim.

You said objective right in the post I quoted...

...how? One could say "it would be nice if...." for plenty of things that the person isn't dismissing off hand. For example, is someone saying "it would be nice if it rained today" making a claim that it isn't going to rain?

No, the other post you quoted. The one addressed to another poster.

Edited by VICanucksfan5551, 27 October 2012 - 12:04 PM.

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#1923 Pineapples

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

...how? One could say "it would be nice if...." for plenty of things that the person isn't dismissing off hand. For example, is someone saying "it would be nice if it rained today" making a claim that it isn't going to rain?

No, the other post you quoted. The one addressed to another poster.


This seems to more of an argument about how things are read now instead of the topic at hand. I'd rather not be searching through every post trying to find something specific that was said.
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#1924 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

This seems to more of an argument about how things are read now instead of the topic at hand. I'd rather not be searching through every post trying to find something specific that was said.

It was literally only a few posts back...
http://forum.canucks...0#entry10957990
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#1925 Pineapples

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

It was literally only a few posts back...
http://forum.canucks...0#entry10957990


The way you used "it would be nice if" was clearly making a claim that there isn't a meaning, but it would be nice if there was.

Yes that post in the link was for a different poster, but one of your posts, that I also quoted, said objective right in it, therefor referring to an objective meaning.
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#1926 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

The way you used "it would be nice if" was clearly making a claim that there isn't a meaning, but it would be nice if there was.

Yes that post in the link was for a different poster, but one of your posts, that I also quoted, said objective right in it, therefor referring to an objective meaning.

I already addressed that with an example to the contrary.

I was referring to that post, not my post.
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#1927 Pineapples

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:03 AM

I already addressed that with an example to the contrary.

I was referring to that post, not my post.


Looks like there was a bit of a miscommunication.

As for your example, it depends on the context. Regardless, are you saying that you are not dismissing the possibility of an objective meaning in life?
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#1928 Kryten

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:02 AM



If any of you haven't watched this before, you really should find the time to.

Edited by Kryten, 29 October 2012 - 08:03 AM.

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#1929 J.R.

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

So that it lasts more than 80 or so years. Living our lives to the fullest is great while we're alive, but if we can't remember it, we wouldn't know how great it was. It would be no different than never being born.


Why does it need to last more than 80 +/- years? We're here for that long, may as well make the most of it while we here. No?

Beyond that it's about giving your offspring the best chance they can so they can live their 80+/- years...and on, and on...

That's a lot different than never being born.
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#1930 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:13 PM

Looks like there was a bit of a miscommunication.

As for your example, it depends on the context. Regardless, are you saying that you are not dismissing the possibility of an objective meaning in life?

That is correct. It's possible, but I have yet to be shown any evidence that would lead me to that conclusion.
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#1931 Pineapples

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:23 PM

Why does it need to last more than 80 +/- years? We're here for that long, may as well make the most of it while we here. No?

Beyond that it's about giving your offspring the best chance they can so they can live their 80+/- years...and on, and on...

That's a lot different than never being born.


If we're dead, we wouldn't know if we left our offspring a good chance. If we can't think after death, then we would be in the same state as before birth.
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#1932 Pineapples

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:32 PM

That is correct. It's possible, but I have yet to be shown any evidence that would lead me to that conclusion.


If you acknowledge it as a possibility, then we are pretty much on the same page.

There is no way to find any evidence anyway. Which is why I'm not convinced about there not being a creator.
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#1933 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

If you acknowledge it as a possibility, then we are pretty much on the same page.

There is no way to find any evidence anyway. Which is why I'm not convinced about there not being a creator.

But you believe in the possibility without evidence to back it up, while I hold the null hypothesis until the possibility can be substantiated.

There is no way to find any evidence anyway. Which is why I'm not convinced about there not being an invisible magic neon dinosaur that lives in my backyard that cannot be detected through physical means ;)

Edited by VICanucksfan5551, 29 October 2012 - 06:48 PM.

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#1934 Nevlach

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:17 PM

But you believe in the possibility without evidence to back it up, while I hold the null hypothesis until the possibility can be substantiated.

There is no way to find any evidence anyway. Which is why I'm not convinced about there not being an invisible magic neon dinosaur that lives in my backyard that cannot be detected through physical means ;)

Even though there is no direct evidence better arguments can be made for the existence of a divine intelligence/creator than can be made for an invisible magic neon dinosaur. :P

I mean I think it's more intellectually honest to say one is an agnostic with regards to a god but I wouldn't say the same for some one who is agnostic about an invisible dinosaur haha.
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#1935 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

Even though there is no direct evidence better arguments can be made for the existence of a divine intelligence/creator than can be made for an invisible magic neon dinosaur. :P

I mean I think it's more intellectually honest to say one is an agnostic with regards to a god but I wouldn't say the same for some one who is agnostic about an invisible dinosaur haha.

I'd say that's only because the invisible magic neon dinosaur is defined relatively specifically, as compared to a generalized intelligent creator. When a theist starts defining their deity in more detail, they run into some of the same problems as one positing my pet dinosaur.

Anyways, I was trying to point out that his statement could also apply to an infinite number of things he doesn't believe in, so it's effectively meaningless.
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#1936 Nevlach

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:24 PM

I'd say that's only because the invisible magic neon dinosaur is defined relatively specifically, as compared to a generalized intelligent creator. When a theist starts defining their deity in more detail, they run into some of the same problems as one positing my pet dinosaur.

Anyways, I was trying to point out that his statement could also apply to an infinite number of things he doesn't believe in, so it's effectively meaningless.

Ah that is true.
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#1937 Pineapples

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

But you believe in the possibility without evidence to back it up, while I hold the null hypothesis until the possibility can be substantiated.

There is no way to find any evidence anyway. Which is why I'm not convinced about there not being an invisible magic neon dinosaur that lives in my backyard that cannot be detected through physical means ;)


Since there's no evidence to prove either side right or I wrong, I believe what makes the most sense to me.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe my beliefs, but I will defend them when challenged. For the most part, I've just been saying that people have no proof. (Because earlier in the thread some posters were claiming to have it).
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#1938 J.R.

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

If we're dead, we wouldn't know if we left our offspring a good chance. If we can't think after death, then we would be in the same state as before birth.


So? How does that change anything?
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#1939 Pineapples

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

So? How does that change anything?


You say our meaning is to give our offspring the best chance. We wouldn't know anything if we're dead.
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#1940 J.R.

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

You say our meaning is to give our offspring the best chance. We wouldn't know anything if we're dead.


Yes...

You do the best WHILE your here. After that it's up to them to make the best of it. You give them as many tools and as much knowledge as you can for them to earn their own success and do the same with their offspring. Not sure what part of this is being lost on you...?
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#1941 Pineapples

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

Yes...

You do the best WHILE your here. After that it's up to them to make the best of it. You give them as many tools and as much knowledge as you can for them to earn their own success and do the same with their offspring. Not sure what part of this is being lost on you...?


It's a good subjective meaning. But I don't think it's enough to be the objective meaning.
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#1942 Nevlach

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

It's a good subjective meaning. But I don't think it's enough to be the objective meaning.

Yeah even guys like Dawkins, Krauss and Harris admit there is no objective meaning to life - only subjective meanings.
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#1943 J.R.

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

It's a good subjective meaning. But I don't think it's enough to be the objective meaning.


Why does there need to be one?
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#1944 Pineapples

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:41 PM

Yeah even guys like Dawkins, Krauss and Harris admit there is no objective meaning to life - only subjective meanings.


How can they admit something that they cannot prove?
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#1945 Pineapples

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:42 PM

Why does there need to be one?


There doesn't NEED to be one, but life has more of a purpose if there's one.
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#1946 Tom-The-Great

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:46 PM

why does life have to have a purpose?
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#1947 Nevlach

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

How can they admit something that they cannot prove?

I meant from their point of view - not that they are 100% sure it is in fact that way.
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#1948 Pineapples

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

I meant from their point of view - not that they are 100% sure it is in fact that way.


Ah I see. It's all a matter of belief really anyway.
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#1949 J.R.

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

There doesn't NEED to be one, but life has more of a purpose if there's one.


But as I've clearly illustrated, life DOES have purpose. Just seemingly not the purpose you like/that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.
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#1950 Pineapples

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

But as I've clearly illustrated, life DOES have purpose. Just seemingly not the purpose you like/that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.


So you are saying that your subjective meaning of life is the undeniable objective meaning to life?

What's your evidence to prove this is true, considering that there isn't any.
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