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Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


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#1951 J.R.

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

Life has whatever meaning YOU give it beyond the obvious reproductive one's already pointed out. If you "need" something more than that...
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#1952 vancanfan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

Wow, this thread has been quiet lately. :shock:
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#1953 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

Wow, this thread has been quiet lately. :shock:

No Sharpshooter = less drama on here
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#1954 vancanfan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:12 PM

No Sharpshooter = less drama on here


Ahh, I was wondering why this thread came to an abrupt stop, at times it was always front page news ::D
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#1955 Nevlach

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

Can't we all just get along for the Holiday season?


In the angry eyes of Christians in Santa Monica, Calif., Damon Vix is the atheist who stole Christmas.
Vix is blamed for the city’s decision to ban all private displays in Palisades Park, ending a tradition of 14 Nativity scenes erected by church groups in the park every December for the last 60 years.
The Santa Monica Christmas controversy began several years ago when Vix decided to counter the crèches by posting a sign with a quotation mistakenly attributed to Thomas Jefferson: “Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”
Other atheists joined Vix to demand space, forcing the city to set up a lottery to divvy up slots in the park.
Tensions mounted in the community last December after atheist groups flooded the lottery pool and won most of the available space. Many of their displays were vandalized.

In June, frustrated city officials tried to end the holiday war by banning all private displays in the park. Churches fought back with a lawsuit. But last week they lost round one when a federal judge allowed the ban to take effect.
The dueling displays in Santa Monica are the latest example of a growing trend across the country: Atheists are employing a new strategy to challenge the presence of religion in the public square. Wherever religious messages are allowed in public parks or government buildings, atheist groups are increasingly demanding equal time and space.
Of course, Damon Vix and many other atheists would prefer to see all religious symbols banned from public property, even when privately sponsored, as a violation of the Establishment clause of the First Amendment. In their view, a Nativity scene on public property sends a message of government endorsement of religion.
But the U.S. Supreme Court sees it differently:
Although government may not promote a religious message, the court has ruled that private religious expression in a public forum doesn’t violate the Establishment clause as long as other expression is allowed on equal terms.
In other words, Santa Monica may constitutionally allow churches to erect Nativity displays in the park if, and only if, the city allows other groups to display their message.
The only other option open to city officials is to shut down the forum for all non-governmental expression, which is precisely what Santa Monica has decided to do.
Savvy atheists have figured out that the best way to beat them is to join them: Counter religious messages with anti-religious messages – and government officials have no choice but to allow all or nothing.
The strategy seems to be working. A few years ago, for example, Washington state barred all nongovernment displays in the Capitol building after atheists groups put up signs mocking religion next to religious displays in December.
Meanwhile in Arkansas, it took an order by a federal judge to force the state to allow an atheist group to erect a “winter solstice” display next to a Nativity scene sponsored by a private group at the Capitol. Similar conflicts over competing displays have broken out in cities and towns across America.
Beyond the angry rhetoric, both sides in this battle have made valid – and valuable –constitutional points:
Religious groups have established that the First Amendment separates church from state, but not religious expression from public spaces. Whenever government creates a public forum, it can’t bar purely private religious expression.
And atheists have established that the First Amendment creates a level playing field. If religious groups get space in public parks or government buildings, then so must other groups get space – including in December.
So now that we all understand that a right for one is a right for all, maybe it’s time for atheist groups to declare victory and stay home for the holidays. Let Christian groups set up Nativity displays in public spaces unanswered in December – and save the atheist messages for another time of year.
Yes, I understand why atheists want to make sure that religion isn’t privileged by government in the public square (as it has been for much of our history). But at some point (and Santa Monica has surely reached that point) in-your-face tactics become counter-productive and needlessly divisive.

After all, whether we celebrate Christmas, Hanukkah, the Winter Solstice or none of the above, we can all benefit from a more civil and peaceful public square.



http://www.washingto...3f58f_blog.html

Edited by Nevlach, 27 November 2012 - 04:58 PM.

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#1956 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

Is Sharpshooter back or something?
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#1957 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

Nope. So i guess we can get along for the Holiday season.

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#1958 Pineapples

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:29 AM

Yea I stopped coming here since I stopped getting notifications about replies here. Now where did we leave off... :P
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#1959 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:56 AM

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#1960 TemperedSteel

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:17 AM

Merry Kushmas....Happy Hannuhookah....smoke em if ya got em ;) I think when it comes to the subject of god...it's just a bit too far out for my brain to fathom...you know, cause I'm a mortal man...just like anyone else on this planet...Anyone from either side, claiming they know for certain 100% one way or the other...needs to stay out of my stash. You haven't got the conclusive evidence, and if I were a betting man, I'd wager that in our lifetimes at least, there will be no evidence great enough to declare a winner either way. The fighting is juvenile, and it takes WAYYY too much effort.
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#1961 Monty

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:47 AM

...and it takes WAYYY too much effort.


Thinking takes too much effort? Wow.
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i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#1962 TemperedSteel

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

Thinking takes too much effort? Wow.


No...the FIGHTING takes too much effort. Did you just miss that part of the post you quoted from? Or do you just lack reading and comprehension skills? Fighting a circular battle takes far more effort than it is worth, considering there is no reward for winning it, at least in this "lifetime". I personally don't think there's a god or an afterlife or invisible flying purple unicorns revolving around the sun, but the argument is simply childish...much like your reading skills.

Edited by TemperedSteel, 14 December 2012 - 10:10 AM.

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#1963 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:42 AM

Merry Christmas.
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#1964 Monty

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:09 AM

No...the FIGHTING takes too much effort. Did you just miss that part of the post you quoted from? Or do you just lack reading and comprehension skills? Fighting a circular battle takes far more effort than it is worth, considering there is no reward for winning it, at least in this "lifetime". I personally don't think there's a god or an afterlife or invisible flying purple unicorns revolving around the sun, but the argument is simply childish...much like your reading skills.


Except the majority of people don't consider it "fighting", but a debate. Just because grown ups debate, that doesn't mean it's a fight.
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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#1965 TemperedSteel

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

Except the majority of people don't consider it "fighting", but a debate. Just because grown ups debate, that doesn't mean it's a fight.


Ok Mr. Semantics...the debate takes too much effort...and is ridiculous, because it is fruitless...this is like the case of Sisyphus and the boulder...both sides are attempting to explain everything in a nutshell, and even though the atheist/non-believer contingent is not required to disprove a negative, even they don't have that one crucial piece of evidence to call an end to the debate...and the boulder gets very close to the top of the hill...but willful ignorance and the power of persuasion (call it brainwashing if you see fit) prevents them from rolling it up over the top...and it stagnates...just like this argument....Until further evidence is presented, the logical stance is that of the de facto atheist. Those who cannot say for certain that god does not exist but who lives their lives based on the assumption that he's not there, an assumption based on observation and the evolution of human intelligence. Extraordinary claims do certainly require extraordinary evidence, which has thus far not been presented.
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#1966 Monty

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

Ok Mr. Semantics...the debate takes too much effort...and is ridiculous, because it is fruitless...this is like the case of Sisyphus and the boulder...both sides are attempting to explain everything in a nutshell, and even though the atheist/non-believer contingent is not required to disprove a negative, even they don't have that one crucial piece of evidence to call an end to the debate...and the boulder gets very close to the top of the hill...but willful ignorance and the power of persuasion (call it brainwashing if you see fit) prevents them from rolling it up over the top...and it stagnates...just like this argument....Until further evidence is presented, the logical stance is that of the de facto atheist. Those who cannot say for certain that god does not exist but who lives their lives based on the assumption that he's not there, an assumption based on observation and the evolution of human intelligence. Extraordinary claims do certainly require extraordinary evidence, which has thus far not been presented.


Finally. Probably the best post in this entire, ridiculous thread.
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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#1967 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

Ok Mr. Semantics...the debate takes too much effort...and is ridiculous, because it is fruitless...this is like the case of Sisyphus and the boulder...both sides are attempting to explain everything in a nutshell, and even though the atheist/non-believer contingent is not required to disprove a negative, even they don't have that one crucial piece of evidence to call an end to the debate...and the boulder gets very close to the top of the hill...but willful ignorance and the power of persuasion (call it brainwashing if you see fit) prevents them from rolling it up over the top...and it stagnates...just like this argument....Until further evidence is presented, the logical stance is that of the de facto atheist. Those who cannot say for certain that god does not exist but who lives their lives based on the assumption that he's not there, an assumption based on observation and the evolution of human intelligence. Extraordinary claims do certainly require extraordinary evidence, which has thus far not been presented.


Well put.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#1968 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Can't we all just get along for the Holiday season?





http://www.washingto...3f58f_blog.html


Haha...don't count on it.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#1969 Pineapples

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:04 AM

Ok Mr. Semantics...the debate takes too much effort...and is ridiculous, because it is fruitless...this is like the case of Sisyphus and the boulder...both sides are attempting to explain everything in a nutshell, and even though the atheist/non-believer contingent is not required to disprove a negative, even they don't have that one crucial piece of evidence to call an end to the debate...and the boulder gets very close to the top of the hill...but willful ignorance and the power of persuasion (call it brainwashing if you see fit) prevents them from rolling it up over the top...and it stagnates...just like this argument....Until further evidence is presented, the logical stance is that of the de facto atheist. Those who cannot say for certain that god does not exist but who lives their lives based on the assumption that he's not there, an assumption based on observation and the evolution of human intelligence. Extraordinary claims do certainly require extraordinary evidence, which has thus far not been presented.


Oh if only you were in the debate for the last 60 pages. I was constantly being told that such evidence exists :lol:
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#1970 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

Oh if only you were in the debate for the last 60 pages. I was constantly being told that such evidence exists :lol:


That's my buddy James in Virginia, man. His blunt, direct honesty was a key factor in the two of us becoming friends to begin with. We both agree with Carl Sagan...in order to be termed atheists (aside from the de facto kind he mentioned), we'd have to have one hell of a lot more information than we have currently. James will probably only post sporadically here, as he owns his own business and spends a lot less time on the internet now. I'll pass your comment along to him, though.
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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#1971 J.R.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

Oh if only you were in the debate for the last 60 pages. I was constantly being told that such evidence exists :lol:


I don't recall that. I seem to recall numerous people pointing out that there's plenty of evidence suggesting that there is no need for a "god(s)" to exist and that there is none to prove there is/are "god(s)". I don't recall anyone even once stating they had evidence of the non-exsistence of one/any.
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#1972 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I don't recall that. I seem to recall numerous people pointing out that there's plenty of evidence suggesting that there is no need for a "god(s)" to exist and that there is none to prove there is/are "god(s)". I don't recall anyone even once stating they had evidence of the non-exsistence of one/any.

It's futile to even attempt to prove one way or another with the complete lack of falsifiability.
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#1973 J.R.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:03 PM

It's futile to even attempt to prove one way or another with the complete lack of falsifiability.


Which is why no one has attempted to do so....
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#1974 Pineapples

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

That's my buddy James in Virginia, man. His blunt, direct honesty was a key factor in the two of us becoming friends to begin with. We both agree with Carl Sagan...in order to be termed atheists (aside from the de facto kind he mentioned), we'd have to have one hell of a lot more information than we have currently. James will probably only post sporadically here, as he owns his own business and spends a lot less time on the internet now. I'll pass your comment along to him, though.


Yea too bad he doesn't come here more often. Understandably so of course.

Well at least we can agree on there not being enough info to declare either side "a winner"
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#1975 Pineapples

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

I don't recall that. I seem to recall numerous people pointing out that there's plenty of evidence suggesting that there is no need for a "god(s)" to exist and that there is none to prove there is/are "god(s)". I don't recall anyone even once stating they had evidence of the non-exsistence of one/any.


Then you missed out on a lot of this thread. I wasn't referring to you in that post. Others have suggested that such evidence exists, and tried proving it to me but failed to prove anything.

I actually started posting in this thread because people were claiming to have this evidence.

We could go on and on about the more subjective aspects to this topic, but the more important thing that should be discussed is the evidence that we have and don't have. Makes for a fun debate :)
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#1976 J.R.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

Then you missed out on a lot of this thread. I wasn't referring to you in that post. Others have suggested that such evidence exists, and tried proving it to me but failed to prove anything.

I actually started posting in this thread because people were claiming to have this evidence.

We could go on and on about the more subjective aspects to this topic, but the more important thing that should be discussed is the evidence that we have and don't have. Makes for a fun debate :)



I'd love to see these posts....
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- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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#1977 Pineapples

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

I'd love to see these posts....


They're way back in the thread. I'm not looking them up, reading them once was too much...
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#1978 J.R.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

uh-huh...
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"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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#1979 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

I'm with J.R. I think you're strawmanning the opposition.
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#1980 Pineapples

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

uh-huh...


What a dumb thing to argue over. Why do care so much about that anyway?
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