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(article) 5 reasons Luongo should stay in Vancouver..... for now


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#91 Riviera82

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:52 PM

In reality,Luo suffered his first serious groin injury in November of 2008.
However,despite that serious groin injury and then reinjuring it just weeks later,Gillis.org decided to grant Luo 64 million cashews and give him the no-trade,12 year deal.Weeks after signing the deal l(Sept.2010) Luo suffered yet another groin injury and then had one more in Nov. 2011.

For me,these serious groin injuries are what have altered Luo's level of elite play and yet he was still carrying the bulk of the games for the Canucks into this last season.

How did Luo and the team do despite his successive groin injuries that began in 2008? :

2011-2012-First in Division,Conference and League
2010-2011-First in Division,Conference and League
2009-2010-First in Division,third in Conference and fifth in League
2008-2009-First in Division,fifth in Conference and seventh in League


I dont think anybody would argue with Luongo's regular season body of work. He has done very well in that regard even despite his groin injuries.
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#92 nuck nit

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

What I find to be significant is save % from a goalie.

Your D can suck clearing the front of the net and your forwards can be straggling weak and the goals will pour in yet the save % has to indicate that there was a high level of goaltending in those losses and goals against.

I like to use Marty Brodeur as a metric as he is the quintessential stud goalie of my generation that had the great fortune to have Montreal Canadien - esque defenders helping his game along.

Marty's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 . His regular season % is .913 .

Luongo's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 .His regular season % is .916 .
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#93 smurf47

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

What I find to be significant is save % from a goalie.

Your D can suck clearing the front of the net and your forwards can be straggling weak and the goals will pour in yet the save % has to indicate that there was a high level of goaltending in those losses and goals against.

I like to use Marty Brodeur as a metric as he is the quintessential stud goalie of my generation that had the great fortune to have Montreal Canadien - esque defenders helping his game along.

Marty's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 . His regular season % is .913 .

Luongo's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 .His regular season % is .916 .

What the SP doesn;t show with Lou is that he averages .916 but his SP from game to game is at both ends of the spectrum. In other words, although his SP is good...his consistency is not. Getting a shutout one day and giving up 5 in a losing cause is 1-1 record and GAA of 2.50 and SP could be 1.000 and then .860.....for .930....looks good but only good for 2 points outa 4
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#94 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

What I find to be significant is save % from a goalie.

Your D can suck clearing the front of the net and your forwards can be straggling weak and the goals will pour in yet the save % has to indicate that there was a high level of goaltending in those losses and goals against.

I like to use Marty Brodeur as a metric as he is the quintessential stud goalie of my generation that had the great fortune to have Montreal Canadien - esque defenders helping his game along.

Marty's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 . His regular season % is .913 .

Luongo's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 .His regular season % is .916 .


Using a guy who is well past his prime in Brodeur is very misleading. By the time lu is 40 his numbers will be far worse than they are now, and Brodeur played more seasons of higher scoring hockey than Lu, just as Schneiders numbers may very will be better than Lu's because scoring is down in general.
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#95 nuck nit

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:01 PM

I would argue that Brodeur had elite level d men in front of him for most of those years.

The stellar New Jersey defensive system allowed Brodeur to have outstanding years so it all comes out in the wash.

As Bert says -It is what it is- and Luo's save percentage is spectacular-regular season and playoffs.
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#96 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:14 PM

I would argue that Brodeur had elite level d men in front of him for most of those years.

The stellar New Jersey defensive system allowed Brodeur to have outstanding years so it all comes out in the wash.

As Bert says -It is what it is- and Luo's save percentage is spectacular-regular season and playoffs.


Lu was great his 1st playoffs before his groin injury, but after his 1st year here over 4 playoffs his SV% is .908 which is nowhere near spectacular.
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#97 nuck nit

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

I spent some time researching over the players that protected and elevated Marty's game-and numbers.

Luo suffered and played through his groin injuries and never had a Norris defender backing him up.

Imagine having Stevens-15 years (Conn Smythe,HHOF) ,Daneyko-20 years, Niedermayer* -14 years (Norris) as your top 3 defenders?

Throw in Fetisov (HHOF) -six years-one of, if not the greatest d man that came out of the Soviet Union.

Rafalski-seven seasons.Weinrich,White.......

Lemaire (HHOF, 2 Jack Adams,11 Stanley's),Robinson (2 Norris',Smythe,9 Stanley's),Burns and Lamoriello (HHOF) as your coaches?

Marty has four Vezina's and five Jennings.The team's defensive emphasis was brought from Montreal ,where it is legendary.

I would say Luo has done remarkably well given our overall lack of commitment to a disciplined defensive style of game in Vancouver.

The Big Three — Daneyko, Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermayer. Their numbers are in the rafters, facing the three Stanley Cup banners they helped win, as a constant reminder of what made this franchise great during its dynasty years.
“One is in the Hall of Fame,” said goalie Martin Brodeur, referring to Stevens. “One will be in the Hall of Fame soon (Niedermayer). And Dano is in his own Hall of Fame.


*Niedermayer is the only player to win every major North American and international championship in his career; he has won the Memorial Cup, World Junior Championship gold, IIHF World Championship gold, two Olympic gold medals, four Stanley Cups and the World Cup.

Edited by nuck nit, 30 August 2012 - 10:09 PM.

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#98 smurf47

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:48 PM

I would argue that Brodeur had elite level d men in front of him for most of those years.

The stellar New Jersey defensive system allowed Brodeur to have outstanding years so it all comes out in the wash.

As Bert says -It is what it is- and Luo's save percentage is spectacular-regular season and playoffs.

Spectacular is just a bit of a stretch !!!
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#99 nuck nit

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:05 PM

You will note three jerseys hanging in the Prudential Arena rafters.Each one compliments a Stanley Cup Banner.
Each one belongs to a legendary Devil's d man.

Conversely,we look up in Roger's Arena and see three forward's jerseys in the rafters with no Stanley Cup Banners.

Given Gillis.org's penchant for offensive dominance in the first four years , Gillis.org's /AV's approach/offensive emphasis would look even more playoff suspect if not for Luo's spectacular play for this franchise.

Significant,remarkable defence men and goalies are the backbone to championship teams.

Shore up the present D with one more physical D man and Cory will do well going forward.

The five /six spots have to be filled by physical d men that can still move the puck fairly well.

Edited by nuck nit, 30 August 2012 - 11:45 PM.

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#100 Riviera82

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

What I find to be significant is save % from a goalie.

Your D can suck clearing the front of the net and your forwards can be straggling weak and the goals will pour in yet the save % has to indicate that there was a high level of goaltending in those losses and goals against.

I like to use Marty Brodeur as a metric as he is the quintessential stud goalie of my generation that had the great fortune to have Montreal Canadien - esque defenders helping his game along.

Marty's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 . His regular season % is .913 .

Luongo's lifetime NHL playoff save % is .919 .His regular season % is .916 .


According to NHL.com you have that backwards.
Luongo's career playoff Sv% .916, career regular season Sv% .919

I mentioned this somewhere else in one of the other Luongo discussions, he just does not seem suited for playoff hockey not matter what argument you put forth.
Luongo has played 727 career regular season games, many with a garbage Florida Panthers team, and his numbers are still better than they are in the playoffs.
Reg Season, GP - 727, GAA 2.52, Sv% .919
Playoffs, GP - 61, GAA 2.53, Sv% .916

Unfortunately his playoff stats are even somewhat skewed in his favor due to his one brilliant playoff in 2007.
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#101 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:50 PM

Luo`s numbers are consistent or better than Marty Brodeur`s,Riviera.
Luongo did not have multiple HHOF d men protecting him and clearing his crease at any time during his career.
In fact,I fail to see a single one.
No Conn Smythe winners and no Norris winners guarding the Luongo blueline,either.
In fact,Luo has only played six seasons in Vancouver whereas Martin Brodeur had Scott Stevens for 11 years,Daneyko for 10 years, Rafalski for 10 years and Niedermayer for eleven years guarding his crease.
Brodeur had these NHL icons guard his blueline and crease for almost the exact same length of time Luongo has played his entire NHL career.

Edited by nuck nit, 31 August 2012 - 08:51 PM.

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#102 Riviera82

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

Luo`s numbers are consistent or better than Marty Brodeur`s,Riviera.
Luongo did not have multiple HHOF d men protecting him and clearing his crease at any time during his career.
In fact,I fail to see a single one.
No Conn Smythe winners and no Norris winners guarding the Luongo blueline,either.
In fact,Luo has only played six seasons in Vancouver whereas Martin Brodeur had Scott Stevens for 11 years,Daneyko for 10 years, Rafalski for 10 years and Niedermayer for eleven years guarding his crease.
Brodeur had these NHL icons guard his blueline and crease for almost the exact same length of time Luongo has played his entire NHL career.


That still doesn't change the fact that Luongo cant seem to raise his game in the playoffs. Half of his career playing in Florida and his regular season stats are still better than in his 61 playoff games.
Seriously, Norris D-men or not, you cant really mention Luongo in the same breath as Marty Brodeur.
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#103 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

Luo`s numbers are consistent or better than Marty Brodeur`s,Riviera.
Luongo did not have multiple HHOF d men protecting him and clearing his crease at any time during his career.
In fact,I fail to see a single one.
No Conn Smythe winners and no Norris winners guarding the Luongo blueline,either.
In fact,Luo has only played six seasons in Vancouver whereas Martin Brodeur had Scott Stevens for 11 years,Daneyko for 10 years, Rafalski for 10 years and Niedermayer for eleven years guarding his crease.
Brodeur had these NHL icons guard his blueline and crease for almost the exact same length of time Luongo has played his entire NHL career.


Are you on crack? How are the numbers even close. 2.02 vs 2.53 is not close, and that is with Brodeur playing for 13 seasons from 1993-94 to 2006-07 of much higher scoring era than when Lu made his 1st playoff appearance.
Since 2006-07 when Lu played in his 1st playoffs Brodeurs numbers are still better than Lu's during the same period even though Brodeur was in his mid 30's to 40 and that is with no Stevens, Daneyko, Rafalski for any game.
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#104 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

If you follow the thread the reference is to save %.

Time to read up a bit before posting.

You may be disappointed ,but no,I am not on crack.
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#105 Scoobydooby

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:20 AM

5) The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.


i would still rather see Lu return than AV.. if you wanna make a change, the coach would be the first place id go.

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#106 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 01:21 AM

i would still rather see Lu return than AV.. if you wanna make a change, the coach would be the first place id go.


Anything short of a conference final in the upcoming season will mark the end of his tenure here and you will have got your wish.
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#107 Scoobydooby

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

well I certainly would hope so..
AV has done well but everything has its time.. I firmly believe that as far as who has done their job better, the decision should still go to Lu.

ive seen enough of AV and his playing favorites and stubborn habits.. I think a fresh voice and different plan of attck in the dressing room could do wonders for this club. but who knows..
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#108 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:16 PM

Luongo should stay, I hate him but he's a great goalie and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, him and Cory together are an unbeatable pair but I just don't see it happening.
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#109 smurf47

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:17 PM

Luongo should stay, I hate him but he's a great goalie and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, him and Cory together are an unbeatable pair but I just don't see it happening.

WAS a great goalie but the technically superior goalies are pushing him to the middle of the pack !
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#110 riffraff

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

my one sided stats are better than your one sided stats. No wait....

My one sided opinion is better than your one sided opinion. No wait....

Lu's getting traded. Now what do I do?....wait....

Lu hodgson combo threads in Canucks talk months after trade. Done.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#111 Riviera82

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

well I certainly would hope so..
AV has done well but everything has its time.. I firmly believe that as far as who has done their job better, the decision should still go to Lu.

ive seen enough of AV and his playing favorites and stubborn habits.. I think a fresh voice and different plan of attck in the dressing room could do wonders for this club. but who knows..


I would have to agree with you. I'm not a supporter of either of these guys anymore but yes, Luongo has done a better job. I feel AV is largely responsible for Luongo's playoff shortcomings, it wasn't hard to tell when he was going to be off his game and that d**k coach of ours left him in net time after time to get lit up.
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#112 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:57 PM

WAS a great goalie but the technically superior goalies are pushing him to the middle of the pack !


That's one reason why I hate him, he's not as good as he once was and he's too proud and arrogant to split the season with a young talented goalie and mentor him some more.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 01 September 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#113 riffraff

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

I would have to agree with you. I'm not a supporter of either of these guys anymore but yes, Luongo has done a better job. I feel AV is largely responsible for Luongo's playoff shortcomings, it wasn't hard to tell when he was going to be off his game and that d**k coach of ours left him in net time after time to get lit up.


There was no way av was sitting Lu at that time.....all we heard was the same line by mg and av that Lu was/is an elite goalie and that they were confident he gave the team a chance to win.....at the very least Lu was in net because of his contract amount. You can't just put it on av. The organization as a whole was to stubborn to change it up. They catered to Lu's ego and his massive contract.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#114 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:54 PM

That's one reason why I hate him, he's not as good as he once was and he's too proud and arrogant to split the season with a young talented goalie and mentor him some more.


A LOT easier said than done.
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#115 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

A LOT easier said than done.


Well not so much if you don't have an inflated ego.
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#116 Riviera82

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:10 PM

There was no way av was sitting Lu at that time.....all we heard was the same line by mg and av that Lu was/is an elite goalie and that they were confident he gave the team a chance to win.....at the very least Lu was in net because of his contract amount. You can't just put it on av. The organization as a whole was to stubborn to change it up. They catered to Lu's ego and his massive contract.


Fair enough, but AV could have very easily pulled him out of the games he was struggling in, but no, he had to leave him in the net until the game was already lost and possibly shattered his confidence going into the next games.
IMO, the trouble with Luongo is that he doesn't know what's good for himself (wanting to stay in games that are out of hand, etc.) and AV is too much of a pansy to ever do anything about it.
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#117 nuck nit

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:44 PM

The organization as a whole was to stubborn to change it up. They catered to Lu's ego and his massive contract.


This organisation blew it when they signed Luo just eight months after suffering back-to-back groin injuries.
Weeks after signing the 64 million dollar deal Luo had his third groin injury.
Luo made AV and Gillis.I believe they wanted the party to never end.
It wasn't catering to Luo so much as it was a real bad signing decision that went medically critical as soon as the deal was signed.
Gillis .org has gambled with a lot of players with medical issues.The Luo deal really hurt the Canucks insomuch that Luo had a huge trade value and instead of trading him at the height of his physical and market top-they saddled themselves with Luo.
It was a stinker of a decision.
With that said,with everything we now know I have stated all along it is better that we keep Luo as he is undervalued now and Cory will bring in a higher trade asset.
Too bad Gillis never figured that out prior to isolating Luo in game 5 vs LA.
Did Gillis just intend to ditch Luo after isolating him and dumping him as the #1?
Was there any plan? Gillis stated at his year end presser after year #2 on the job stated he "made it up as he went along" so I doubt there was any foresight.
That is the unsettling part ,as a fan.But hey,it makes for great theatre.
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#118 smurf47

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:22 AM

This organisation blew it when they signed Luo just eight months after suffering back-to-back groin injuries.
Weeks after signing the 64 million dollar deal Luo had his third groin injury.
Luo made AV and Gillis.I believe they wanted the party to never end.
It wasn't catering to Luo so much as it was a real bad signing decision that went medically critical as soon as the deal was signed.
Gillis .org has gambled with a lot of players with medical issues.The Luo deal really hurt the Canucks insomuch that Luo had a huge trade value and instead of trading him at the height of his physical and market top-they saddled themselves with Luo.
It was a stinker of a decision.
With that said,with everything we now know I have stated all along it is better that we keep Luo as he is undervalued now and Cory will bring in a higher trade asset.
Too bad Gillis never figured that out prior to isolating Luo in game 5 vs LA.
Did Gillis just intend to ditch Luo after isolating him and dumping him as the #1?
Was there any plan? Gillis stated at his year end presser after year #2 on the job stated he "made it up as he went along" so I doubt there was any foresight.
That is the unsettling part ,as a fan.But hey,it makes for great theatre.

Although I can;t disagree with you that a couple of groin pulls might have affected Lou's game....there is a whole lot technically wrong now that has nothing to do with his groin. It might be an excuse for Lou lovers but those in the know understand the realty.
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#119 nuck nit

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:32 AM

Oh,pray tell,all powerful Karnak.
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#120 smurf47

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

Oh,pray tell,all powerful Karnak.

Lets start with his hands. He can;t hold onto his stick and drops a lot of shots with his glove. The "flashing" the leather. as he is want to do, is all for show. His rebound control has become a huge problem for him,directing the shots into high percentage rebound areas. He is a terrible skater with way below average lateral movement. Teams shoot on him from every angle because he is slow to get to proper position in net. His positional play is getting worse, he is slow squaring to shooter(read puck). He is near the bottom of the pack in shootout save percentage which reflects his poor fundamentals. His butterfly is poor, his 5 hole is huge because his stick doesn;t cver it when he goes down. He plays small for a big goalie, goes down too soon, is an easy read and very vulnerable to high shots, He is poor in traffic and does not adequately seal off bottom of the net. He guess too much and anticipates poorly. He seems to not play well under pressure. He relies on reflexes too much. I don;t believe he even wears pads, gloves that are best suited for his style. Leg pads are too stiff and hard and give up huge rebounds. I'm sure I missed something but this is a good bite for you to chew on. Any more questions...ask Karnack who has been involved in the goaltending science for 43 years ! He just might have the answer for a SSI non goalie !
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