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Obama vs Romney 2012 - CDC Election


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Poll: Obama vs Romney (329 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would you vote for?

  1. Obama (279 votes [85.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.32%

  2. Romney (48 votes [14.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.68%

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#241 Columbo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:35 AM

He says "you watch way too much Fox News" and then posts something from MSNBC, what a champ :lol:


The video's not from MSNBC, "champ." The screenshot just happened to stop on a shot of a guy giving an MSNBC interview.
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#242 Zamboni_14

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

He says "you watch way too much Fox News" and then posts something from MSNBC, what a champ :lol:


wow... clearly you didn't watch the video AT ALL. The fact that it's from TYT (The Young Turks) should have been your "attacking" point and not MSNBC
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#243 Columbo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:46 AM

wow... clearly you didn't watch the video AT ALL. The fact that it's from TYT (The Young Turks) should have been your "attacking" point and not MSNBC


If you're a die-hard Republican who gleefully believes lies about Obama "stealing" from Medicare and whatnot, then I see why TYT would actually be the worse of the two. They actually do crazy things like back up their arguments with facts and present fair coverage.
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#244 Zamboni_14

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

If you're a die-hard Republican who gleefully believes lies about Obama "stealing" from Medicare and whatnot, then I see why TYT would actually be the worse of the two. They actually do crazy things like back up their arguments with facts and present fair coverage.


I was saying that because it was a TYT video... not a MSNBC video. But they are biased to the "left" (not sure if they are as biased as Fox or MSNBC is.. but they are biased.)
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#245 Columbo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

I was saying that because it was a TYT video... not a MSNBC video. But they are biased to the "left" (not sure if they are as biased as Fox or MSNBC is.. but they are biased.)


They're biased towards rationality, not the left. It just so happens that these days, the right is rather devoid of it. They do dozens of videos attacking Obama, and they think both sides are equally corrupt. It's just that the Republicans are also insane, and those who aren't crazy (like Romney and Ryan) are manipulative liars.
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#246 Sharpshooter

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:37 AM

I was saying that because it was a TYT video... not a MSNBC video. But they are biased to the "left" (not sure if they are as biased as Fox or MSNBC is.. but they are biased.)


Some places are more closely biased to the truth than others. TYT isn't hesitant to land its punches on the left or the right. It just so happens that the right is moreso a target rich environment of irrationality and much of that is promoted and created by Fox Noise.
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#247 Zamboni_14

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:45 AM

They're biased towards rationality, not the left. It just so happens that these days, the right is rather devoid of it. They do dozens of videos attacking Obama, and they think both sides are equally corrupt. It's just that the Republicans are also insane, and those who aren't crazy (like Romney and Ryan) are manipulative liars.


dozens of videos out of hundreds? Don't you think that's a little "slanted" to one side? saying "oh well we have videos of Obama as well.. so that makes us balanced" is on the same level as Hannity or O'Really? saying "I was also critical of Bush."
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#248 Humble Rodent

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

When republicans use subjectivism it makes me want to shoot myself.
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#249 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

Hilarious observation: jmfaminoff started a thread about Labor Day. And it was supportive. What a commie! :lol:
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


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#250 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

If you're a die-hard Republican who gleefully believes lies about Obama "stealing" from Medicare and whatnot, then I see why TYT would actually be the worse of the two. They actually do crazy things like back up their arguments with facts and present fair coverage.

Have you heard of the Affordable Care Act? It is also known as Obamacare. In Obamacare, 716 billion is to be taken out of Medicare over ten years and us to be used to fund parts of Obamacare. I know, because I read the 2000 page bill.
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#251 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:08 PM

You watch way too much Fox News. It's a FACT that Paul Ryan voted for those same cuts. Romney has said he supports those cuts. And everyone (except those lying to you) know that the cuts come from eliminating waste and fraud, and that it doesn't take a penny away from healtcare user services.

If the Republicans had their way, they'd still make those same cuts (which is good), but then cut way more into the user side of things, and repeal Obamacare and leave millions uninsured again. If you're an American who relies on Medicare, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you vote Republican - and unfortunately they're counting on it.

Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5GpLOg1GEU&feature=plcp

Ryan did not vote for the Affordable Care Act. It was passed in 2009 by a Democratic controlled Congress, Senate, and Whitehouse. All of the Republicans voted no against it.
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#252 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:09 PM

Have you heard of the Affordable Care Act? It is also known as Obamacare. In Obamacare, 716 billion is to be taken out of Medicare over ten years and us to be used to fund parts of Obamacare. I know, because I read the 2000 page bill.


Okay okay Trotsky, we know you're for single payer.
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#253 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:09 PM

Have you heard of the Affordable Care Act? It is also known as Obamacare. In Obamacare, 716 billion is to be taken out of Medicare over ten years and us to be used to fund parts of Obamacare. I know, because I read the 2000 page bill.


I highly doubt that you did or else you would know that the 716 billion was taking from the insurance companies, not medicare. All of the standards of care are still kept up, hospital funding remains the same, it's just the big corporations which your party so blindly support get a hit to their wallets.
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#254 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

Hilarious observation: jmfaminoff started a thread about Labor Day. And it was supportive. What a commie! :lol:

Most people do not know the history of the Labour Unions in North America. It is a shame, and it would make people appreciate their sacrifice to get us a forty hour week and better safety standards.

Like my professor, an actual NRLB arbitrator said in MGT 646 Labour Relations, at Central Michigan University's School of Business, "I am proworker, not prounion." There is a difference.

Edited by jmfaminoff, 04 September 2012 - 12:23 PM.

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#255 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:15 PM

As if the BP oil spill wasn't enough...

It was tough. Fishing and shrimping is a major business down here. I heard somewhere that fishing related industry in Louisiana and Mississippi counts for half of all seafood sold in the United States. Those good times are coming back.
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#256 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:16 PM

Actually, I am actually proworker, not prounion. There is a difference.


Wonderful so you don't even know you're being manipulated.

Anyway, as per your earlier comment on the 716 billion, here is an article which accurately depicts Ryan's lie. http://www.politifac...led-716-billio/

If you can read 2,000 pages, I'm sure you can read that.
Highlights:
So, yes, Obama’s law did find $716 billion in spending reductions. They were mainly aimed at insurance companies and hospitals, not beneficiaries. The law made significant reductions to Medicare Advantage, a subset of Medicare plans run by private insurers. Medicare Advantage was started under President George W. Bush, and the idea was that competition among the private insurers would reduce costs. But the plans have actually cost the government more than traditional Medicare. The health care law scales back the payments to private insurers.
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#257 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:17 PM

Actually, I am actually proworker, not prounion. There is a difference.


That's why it's so hilarious!
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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#258 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:32 PM

That's why it's so hilarious!

It seems like civility is a lost art these days.
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#259 jmfaminoff

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:38 PM

Wonderful so you don't even know you're being manipulated.

Anyway, as per your earlier comment on the 716 billion, here is an article which accurately depicts Ryan's lie. http://www.politifac...led-716-billio/

If you can read 2,000 pages, I'm sure you can read that.
Highlights:
So, yes, Obama’s law did find $716 billion in spending reductions. They were mainly aimed at insurance companies and hospitals, not beneficiaries. The law made significant reductions to Medicare Advantage, a subset of Medicare plans run by private insurers. Medicare Advantage was started under President George W. Bush, and the idea was that competition among the private insurers would reduce costs. But the plans have actually cost the government more than traditional Medicare. The health care law scales back the payments to private insurers.

You do know what it is saying. Cuts to doctors and hospitals in reimbursements, cuts in Medicare supplementals.

Here is an article from Washington Post


The Romney campaign has gone on the offense on Medicare, charging that the Affordable Care Act “cuts $716 billion” from the entitlement program.

That $716 billion figure is one you’ll probably be hearing a lot about during this election cycle. It’s worth understanding where it comes from and what the spending reductions mean for the Medicare program.

First, where it comes from. On July 24, the Congressional Budget Office sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, detailing the budget impact of repealing the Affordable Care Act. If Congress overturned the law, “spending for Medicare would increase by an estimated $716 billion over that 2013–2022 period.”

As to how the Affordable Care Act actually gets to $716 billion in Medicare savings, that’s a bit more complicated. John McDonough did the best job explaining it in his 2011 book, “Inside National Health Reform.” There, he looked at all the various Medicare cuts Democrats made to pay for the Affordable Care Act.

The majority of the cuts, as you can see in this chart below, come from reductions in how much Medicare reimburses hospitals and private health insurance companies.
Posted Image
The blue section represents reductions in how much Medicare reimburses private, Medicare Advantage plans. That program allows seniors to join a private health insurance, with the federal government footing the bill. The whole idea of Medicare Advantage was to drive down the cost of health insurance for the elderly as private insurance companies competing for seniors’ business.

That’s not what happened. By 2010, the average Medicare Advantage per-patient cost was 117 percent of regular fee-for-service. The Affordable Care Act gives those private plans a haircut and tethers reimbursement levels to the quality of care administered, and patient satisfaction.

The Medicare Advantage cut gets the most attention, but it only accounts for about a third of the Affordable Care Act’s spending reduction. Another big chunk comes from the hospitals. The health law changed how Medicare calculates what they get reimbursed for various services, slightly lowering their rates over time. Hospitals agreed to these cuts because they knew, at the same time, they would likely see an influx of paying patients with the Affordable Care Act’s insurance expansion.

The rest of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicare cuts are a lot smaller. Reductions to Medicare’s Disproportionate Share Payments — extra funds doled out the hospitals that see more uninsured patients — account for 5 percent in savings. Lower payments to home health providers make up another 8.8 percent. About a dozen cuts of this magnitude make up the green section above.
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#260 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:57 PM

You do know what it is saying. Cuts to doctors and hospitals in reimbursements, cuts in Medicare supplementals.

Here is an article from Washington Post


The Romney campaign has gone on the offense on Medicare, charging that the Affordable Care Act “cuts $716 billion” from the entitlement program.

That $716 billion figure is one you’ll probably be hearing a lot about during this election cycle. It’s worth understanding where it comes from and what the spending reductions mean for the Medicare program.

First, where it comes from. On July 24, the Congressional Budget Office sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, detailing the budget impact of repealing the Affordable Care Act. If Congress overturned the law, “spending for Medicare would increase by an estimated $716 billion over that 2013–2022 period.”

As to how the Affordable Care Act actually gets to $716 billion in Medicare savings, that’s a bit more complicated. John McDonough did the best job explaining it in his 2011 book, “Inside National Health Reform.” There, he looked at all the various Medicare cuts Democrats made to pay for the Affordable Care Act.

The majority of the cuts, as you can see in this chart below, come from reductions in how much Medicare reimburses hospitals and private health insurance companies.
Posted Image
The blue section represents reductions in how much Medicare reimburses private, Medicare Advantage plans. That program allows seniors to join a private health insurance, with the federal government footing the bill. The whole idea of Medicare Advantage was to drive down the cost of health insurance for the elderly as private insurance companies competing for seniors’ business.

That’s not what happened. By 2010, the average Medicare Advantage per-patient cost was 117 percent of regular fee-for-service. The Affordable Care Act gives those private plans a haircut and tethers reimbursement levels to the quality of care administered, and patient satisfaction.

The Medicare Advantage cut gets the most attention, but it only accounts for about a third of the Affordable Care Act’s spending reduction. Another big chunk comes from the hospitals. The health law changed how Medicare calculates what they get reimbursed for various services, slightly lowering their rates over time. Hospitals agreed to these cuts because they knew, at the same time, they would likely see an influx of paying patients with the Affordable Care Act’s insurance expansion.

The rest of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicare cuts are a lot smaller. Reductions to Medicare’s Disproportionate Share Payments — extra funds doled out the hospitals that see more uninsured patients — account for 5 percent in savings. Lower payments to home health providers make up another 8.8 percent. About a dozen cuts of this magnitude make up the green section above.


Granted I did not know about the green section, although it seems to be a collection of small cuts to smaller branches of health care.

The major positive is of course the blue section, which cuts the cost of medicare. Being as large as this portion is, it is safe to say the affordable health care act met it's title. In regards to the red section, cuts to hospitals are dependant upon the amount of returning patients. If a hospital has frequency in bringing back patients for placebo drugs and partial treatments then their reimburstment should absolutely be cut. This portion of the bill actually requires hospitals to meet a certain standard of care and ensure that patients do not return for the same illness. Your article fails to mention this.

I still don't understand how the Republican spin on things can be so effective with Americans. Their aim is to have a medicare programs which enables wealthy citizens that can afford it to be able to effectively budge the line at the ER. For those who can't afford it, they are stuck with broken arms and head trauma in a waiting room where rich whites immediately see attention for the smallest of cuts. How does this reflect the working man's position?

The real villain of the elderly is Paul Ryan, who's budget plan effectively wipes out medicaid. If by reducing spending he intends to wipe out the social support programs of America's underclass (which grows during a depression) then how does he represent American workers? This is so backwards. I think it all falls back to Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" in which the Republican party promoted just days after Obama's nomination. This is the strategy, fiction of an intellectual "ruling class" oppressing the "productive class" - echoes of Marxism in which the selective ignorance of the Republican party fails to capture.
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#261 Columbo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:14 PM

Ryan did not vote for the Affordable Care Act. It was passed in 2009 by a Democratic controlled Congress, Senate, and Whitehouse. All of the Republicans voted no against it.


Thanks captain obvious. I think it's pretty obvious if you read my post that I said Ryan voted for the same $716 billion medicare cuts as Obama's plan included. You know, the cuts that they're now attacking Obama relentlessly for. Not the entire ACA, obviously.
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#262 Columbo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:19 PM

dozens of videos out of hundreds? Don't you think that's a little "slanted" to one side? saying "oh well we have videos of Obama as well.. so that makes us balanced" is on the same level as Hannity or O'Really? saying "I was also critical of Bush."


That doesn't make it slanted. It just means one side is objectively worse than the other.

That's the problem with the media these days. They feel like they have to give equal blame and call everything "even." It's not even! To give an example, there are some Republicans who still believe Obama wasn't born in the States. If a news channel does 10 stories about him being born in the States and 0 about him not being born there, does that make them biased towards Obama? No, it just means the other side is crazy. To try to call it even would be absurd. On a much larger scale, that is how TYT handles the Republicans and the Democrats. It's perfectly fair and balanced IMO.
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#263 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:39 PM

Most people do not know the history of the Labour Unions in North America. It is a shame, and it would make people appreciate their sacrifice to get us a forty hour week and better safety standards.

Like my professor, an actual NRLB arbitrator said in MGT 646 Labour Relations, at Central Michigan University's School of Business, "I am proworker, not prounion." There is a difference.


MAYDAY — the first of May — is recognized around the world as a day to celebrate international workers’ solidarity. It is often forgotten that this day of commemoration of working class revolutionary awareness originated with the movement for the eight-hour day and the other basic rights of labor that are taken for granted by American workers today — the movement that was centered in Chicago and that reached its peak in 1886.

Anarchists were a major force in this movement, and much of what has been gained by workers worldwide is owed to their struggles and their sacrifices — although their contribution has been all but obliterated from the history books.

A massive general strike was called for May 1, 1886, and it was supported by nationwide demonstrations. On May 3, striking workers at the International Harvester plant in Chicago were fired on by police, killing four and wounding many. A protest rally was held May 4 in Chicago’s Haymarket Square. Three leading Anarchists spoke: Albert Parsons, August Spies, and Samuel Fielden. The rally was nonviolent, but it was broken up by the police, and it ended in violence after someone (perhaps an agent provocateur) threw a bomb into the police lines. A Chicago policeman was killed in the explosion.

This disrupted demonstration was followed by the biggest “red scare” rampage in US history. In the process, eight Anarchist leaders were rounded up, arrested, and charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Five were eventually killed by the State; four — August Spies, George Engel, Adolph Fisher, and Albert Parsons — died on the gallows on November 11, 1887; one — Louis Lingg — died in his cell, allegedly by his own hand.

With the noose around his neck, Fischer cried out: “Hurrah for Anarchy! This is the happiest moment of my life.”

Parsons said: “Will I be allowed to speak, O men of America? Let me speak, Sheriff Matson! Let the voice of the people be heard!”

From inside his hood, Spies made a short statement which would be heard for decades in workingclass circles: “The time will come when our silence will be more powerful than the voices you strangle today.”

This use of State murder to eliminate Anarchists — despite a preponderance of evidence of their innocence of any crime — was repeated against Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti in Boston in 1927.

The message sank deep into the American consciousness: to speak out against the State, to propose humanitarian alternatives, was a capital offence.


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#264 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:45 PM

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#265 Sharpshooter

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:12 PM

Watch Day 1 of the Democratic National Convention live:




Harry Reid - Senate Majority Leader speaking now (4:12pm PST)
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#266 Common sense

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:23 PM

It seems like civility is a lost art these days.


Only on some people.

...and on the Internet.
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#267 nuckin_futz

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:26 PM



:picard:
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#268 Dral

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:29 PM

So.... isn't Canada much more socialist then America?

And isn't talking about socialism like talking about cancer? (i.e - such an incredibly broad definition that encompasses many differing philosophies?)

And isn't it preferable to live in a country where access to good medicare and education isn't dependent on being incredibly wealthy?
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#269 Sharpshooter

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:32 PM

So.... isn't Canada much more socialist then America?

And isn't talking about socialism like talking about cancer? (i.e - such an incredibly broad definition that encompasses many differing philosophies?)

And isn't it preferable to live in a country where access to good medicare and education isn't dependent on being incredibly wealthy?



Yes.

Yes.

Yes.
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#270 Dral

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:45 PM

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.



Those questions weren't directed at someone who is logical and benevolentl. I'll try to make myself clearer next time :lol:
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