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#181 riffraff

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:32 AM

Posted Image

it just hurts you know.

Edited by riffraff, 31 August 2012 - 06:33 AM.

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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#182 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:33 AM

And obviously, Pahlsson was a rental. I never expected him to be here past the playoffs. Did you?
He would have been too expensive and he wouldn't have had any place to play, assuming that Malhotra comes back to form this upcoming season, or perhaps Lapierre steps up his game. And with the possibility of either Schroeder and/or a new player coming here (in the assumed Luongo trade) getting some time at 3C, Pahlsson was not going to be in the cards for next year.
I think Gillis didn't pay a whole lot for a guy who could have been quite valuable had the team gone deeper into the playoffs.
PS - you failed to notice the elephant dung. This saddens me as I placed it in my comments as a specific salute to the quality of posts which we have seen from you.

regards,
G.


Brain injured Daniel Sedin, shoulder surgery awaiting Kesler and the GM is throwing out two draft picks on a rental you know was not going to stay here.
I would suggest all organsations should not be throwing away two of their draft picks on any 19 game rental player -especially when the GM knows that four of his core players are suffering injuries and should not be playing any playoff hockey.
Bieksa had an abdominal injury and Edler was contemplating further surgery from the Boston Bruin finger breaking slash he suffered in the SCF's that still hampered his play.
Schroeder should not make this team and with training camp weeks away there is no center signed to fill the gap left by Kesler.
Two of the top 4 D and two of the top 4 forwards were injured before the playoffs even began and Gillis was giving away future draft picks.Smooth move for exlax lovers.

This time it really does smell like elephant,Gump.

Edited by nuck nit, 31 August 2012 - 07:15 AM.

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#183 Gollumpus

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:28 AM

:lol:

Seriously, is this a joke? How long have you been watching hockey for?


Seriously, you have to actually watch hockey in order to post here? Gee, I've just been winging it all this time. From reading your posts I assumed that not having any kind of understanding of the game was the norm.

My bad.


The guy's a 22 year-old rookie, and you're scrutinizing him to this level? At the time he was traded, he had 16 goals and 33 points in 63 games; that's AHL-worthy, for you? As a 22 year-old rookie centering the 3rd line with limited minutes?


As I pointed out in my post (which you quoted, so I assume you read read it), Hodgson was under-performing at the time of the trade (2g 1a in the previous month). My understanding is that that's not that great. And that's something which I indicated was AHL worthy.

Yeah, Hodgson had 3rd line minutes, because he wasn't good enough to play higher. I've heard there's more to this game than just scoring points (although scoring apparently does help you win games). His defensive play was really not very good, his physical game was non-existant, and his face-offs were very sub-par, along with his low-end of average skating ability. This, along with his scoring ability drying up for about a month, made him AHL worthy.

It also meant he had to be moved, sooner rther than later, because he was driving his own value down.


How'd Kassian do while here? He was stuffing his face with nachos in the press box, that's how.


Yeah, I get your point. Having Hodgson here, and under-performing would have been so much more valuable to the team, especially with an eye to an off-season trade, where Hodgson's under-performance would have been visible on a much larger stage.


"Lucky to have gotten Kassian"...come on. You can't be serious. If that's the case, then why was it reported that a bunch of GMs around the league were shocked when the deal went down, in that they couldn't believe that Cody was actually made available?


I guess they were shocked because Gillis didn't tell them that he was looking to trade Hodgson. I've heard rumours that some GM's don't keep all of the other GM's informed as to everything they are going to do.

Gillis had picked which team(s) with which he wanted to deal, and what he wanted to get out of them. When he got a yes, the deal was done. Why would Gillis bother announcing to 25+ other teams that he was dealing Hodgson if he didn't want anything from them?

Further to the above point, about Hodgson driving his own price down, if Gillis had announced that he wanted to deal Hodgson it could have had a negative impact for the Canucks. Given enough time (as in days), various sports pundits would have weighed in on the value of Hodgson, and while they would very likely have commented on his offensive potential, they would have also noted the various negatives in his game, which might have helped sway the opinion of a rival GM, and resulted in a return of something less than Kassian.

Assuming the Canucks didn't trade Hodgson when they did, and he continued to play poorly for the remainder of the season (which he did) and then into the playoffs, would they have been able to count on getting a return as good as Kassian? I don't believe they could.


You guys can try and rationalize this trade all that you want, and continue to try and convince yourselves that Cody sucks, but if there's one thing that I can predict with confidence, it's that Cody Hodgson should go on to have a much better NHL career than Zack Kassian. And we'll need to just sit back and watch it go down, just like we did with Cam Neely.


Will Hodgson have a much better NHL career than Kassian? Maybe. I see you discovered the BOLD and underline buttons. Those are fun to play with, aren't they?

As with most "Cody-ites" out there, unless what is written is 100% pro-Hodgson then you are a hater. I see any sort of negative comments about Hodgson as stating the obvious.

Hodgson is not a fast skater, but he could be a better skater. He is not good in the face-off circle, although there's always the chance that he could improve. He is not a physical player, but he could be better with a bit more weight and a bit more confidence. He is not a reliable defensive player, although one could always hope that he will improve. The response of, "He scored 16 goals in 63 games" is all well and good, but for me the lustre of that statement fades if the guy is on the ice for about as many goals as he has points... or would you blame this on his linemates (normally Higgins and Hansen more often than not)?

By "much better NHL career" do you mean that Hodgson will score more points than Kassian? All things being equal, I don't see why he wouldn't. I don't see this as being any great revelation. Hodgson has the potential to score a lot of points, assuming he gets the right line mates and his coach plays him in situations where he can rely on his offensive abilities and not the other aspects of his game where he is lacking (yes, cue the "AV didn't use Cody right" comments). If Hodgson didn't out-point Kassian I'd extremely surprised, albeit pleasantly so.

However, who has (or had) the potential to be more valuable to the Canucks, Kassian or Hodgson? The answer is Kassian.

Kassian is bigger, stronger, a better skater, and plays a much more physical game (something which the team was lacking even more than any offensive which Hodgson might have been able to supply). He can generate space for the skilled players. He can wear down the opposing players. He's faster on the back-check.

Kassian is not without scoring potential, an inconvenient truth with is usually over-looked by his critics. He can be a 20+ goals and over 50 points type of guy in the NHL. Heck, he might even go higher than those numbers with the right linemates.

Kassian has already shown a commitment to improving himself and making this team. I won't bother with the videos showing him during a work-out. I'm reasonably certain that it's common knowledge that Kassian has apparently lost body fat weight and is now replacing it with muscle weight.

I believe he's a smart, very coachable player, and he has the potential to be a top-6 guy on this team for over a decade. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 01 September 2012 - 04:57 AM.

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#184 Gollumpus

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:01 AM

Brain injured Daniel Sedin, shoulder surgery awaiting Kesler and the GM is throwing out two draft picks on a rental you know was not going to stay here.


Well chum, Sedin was injured after the trade deadline, wasn't he? And I'm not sure how keeping two 4th round picks was going to help Kesler's shoulder. If anything, having a guy like Pahlsson would take some of the pressure off of Kesler and his shoulder, and as such was a good deal in my books.


I would suggest all organsations should not be throwing away two of their draft picks on any 19 game rental player -especially when the GM knows that four of his core players are suffering injuries and should not be playing any playoff hockey.


Well, it's true that players get injured, but the team still wants them play, but this being said, the players also still wants to play, particularly when it's close to the playoffs. If every team were to place all of their "walking wounded" players on the disabled list they'd each have replace at least three to six players, and that would be before the playoffs began.

What option would you suggest that a GM should trade since rentals are a fact of life in the NHL? There's roster players, prospects and picks. Often, picks and prospects are the least valuable to the team wanting the rental, and are of very high value to the other team.


Bieksa had an abdominal injury and Edler was contemplating further surgery from the Boston Bruin finger breaking slash he suffered in the SCF's that still hampered his play.
Schroeder should not make this team and with training camp weeks away there is no center signed to fill the gap left by Kesler.
Two of the top 4 D and two of the top 4 forwards were injured before the playoffs even began and Gillis was giving away future draft picks.Smooth move for exlax lovers.


Once again, I don't get how keeping those two 4th rounders was going to help the Canucks' situation going into last season's playoffs. Still having them would not have improved the injury situation of any of the players you have listed.


This time it really does smell like elephant,Gump.


Well, to paraphrase the great Al Jolson, you ain't smelled nothing yet!

regards,
G.
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#185 oldnews

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:23 AM

Oldnews,you could start your campaign by getting over it,yourself -posting somewhere else-like on Sabres talk,as you suggest for others.
Check back in every once in a while to let us know how the previous Canucks players are doing.
This was a Hodgson celebration or appreciation thread and yet in a single post you offer up "swallow and regurgitate", "doomsday", "the most prematurely over -rated player in FRANCHISE HISTORY","crying","drivel","Get over it." -but it is not about "dislike" or "bashing".
You may want to check your dislike level that you state you don't have,as you will have found lots of spare time.
"Ha Ha Ha" all around,eh?


nucknit, I am a Canucks fan - a fan of the team, all the players, the coaching staff and management. I don't come here and rag on players or the organization - I support and defend it. I had nothing but good things to say about Hodgson while he was here, and after the tidal wave of whining when he was traded, putting it in context and perspective imo is good for the Canucks and fans. If you need a link to the doomsday articles I'll be happy to provide one.

As has been said by many posters here, this is not Canucks talk - Hodgson is not a Canuck - and evidently didn't want to be - which was patently obvious to most of us - so if not forgotten, I don't come to Canucks talk to "celebrate" the Hodgson soap opera - what I remember has been stated here - critical perhaps, but there is nothing inappropriate, or hateful in what I have said.

If you want to talk about "campaigns", and are going to play that card, or that I should temper my "dislike", that strikes me as sheer ironing - about every single post you have ever made on CDC involves some kind of shot at MIke Gillis - thank you; we all now know that he's a "lawyer"/had to train as a "lawyer" to be a player agent. See you next time on "Gillis.org."

Edited by oldnews, 31 August 2012 - 09:32 AM.

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#186 oldnews

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:44 AM

:lol:

Seriously, is this a joke? How long have you been watching hockey for?

The guy's a 22 year-old rookie, and you're scrutinizing him to this level? At the time he was traded, he had 16 goals and 33 points in 63 games; that's AHL-worthy, for you? As a 22 year-old rookie centering the 3rd line with limited minutes? How'd Kassian do while here? He was stuffing his face with nachos in the press box, that's how.

"Lucky to have gotten Kassian"...come on. You can't be serious. If that's the case, then why was it reported that a bunch of GMs around the league were shocked when the deal went down, in that they couldn't believe that Cody was actually made available?

You guys can try and rationalize this trade all that you want, and continue to try and convince yourselves that Cody sucks, but if there's one thing that I can predict with confidence, it's that Cody Hodgson should go on to have a much better NHL career than Zack Kassian. And we'll need to just sit back and watch it go down, just like we did with Cam Neely.


You love to start your posts with exasperations, but in the end, the funny thing is that you have claimed to "predict with confidence" not that Hodgson will, but that he "should" have a better career - your qualifier pretty much completely undermines your claim to be predicting with "confidence".

Gollumpus was right - the Canucks did very well to land Kassian. Your exaggerations speaking for GMs around the league doesn't make it true - the "shocked" GM was Burke - that the Canucks took Kassian over their failing project - Schenn went from unattainable for a truck load of first round picks, to shopped as 24-7 as Seven Eleven. You might want to base your claims on stronger sources than the Toronto lobby and the pulp out of the Province.

And the Neely reference is utterly original. Did you know that the Neely trade lead directly to the loss in the SCF two years ago? Seriously, have a read - Tony Gallagher has traced the chain of causation with air-tight certifiability.

Edited by oldnews, 31 August 2012 - 09:59 AM.

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#187 higgyfan

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:43 AM

Why is this topic still on the main page? Hello! CH plays for the Buffalo Sabres!!!
The Nuck fans that are feeling rejected by Cody need to either get some counseling or just move on. You now have ZK to titillate over. Try not to confuse the two.
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#188 Bodee

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:00 PM

Yes I know it is a word but it is still poor English.

And for the record, you are defending a guy who made a tribute video to a player, and then spelled that players name wrong in the video. And not just a little wrong....really wrong. Chody Hodgeson??? Come on!


Linden Legend, I'm not getting at you.

All I'm saying is it is a word correctly used in this context by the OP imo. Ie I DON'T think Hodgson will NEVER be forgotten...............so he is not unforgettable............people will forget him in time. (unless he does something he hasn't shown likely to do up till now.) :)
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#189 riffraff

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

Not going to bother getting all wordy here. The bottom line is:

Cody is a sabre. Take your cody crap to buffalo sabers.com

It's the Canucks we talk about in Canucks talk.

Not sure why this hasn't been mod'd the frack outta here....
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#190 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:04 PM

Hey Riffraff,this Cody thread was apparently made to view his good times as a Canuck.
A few of you either don't get it ,don't care and would rather spew your hatred,or crap,as you lovingly call it.
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#191 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:25 PM

but there is nothing inappropriate, or hateful in what I have said.


Oldnews,we are all Canucks fans here-and hockey fans in general.That means we like hockey and the players,whether they are Canucks or not and especially if they are or were Canucks players as there is usually some interest attached to their development and careers.I think that is quite normal and fair to say.
Just look at the wording in ONE of your posts and contemplate on them while reiterating there is nothing inappropriate or hateful implied:
"Swallow and regurgitate", "doomsday", "the most prematurely over - rated player in FRANCHISE HISTORY","crying" , "drivel", "get over it." - how could this ever be misconstrued as" innapropriate, hateful, dislike or bashing" of a highly touted former Canuck?

Edited by nuck nit, 31 August 2012 - 05:43 PM.

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#192 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:48 PM

Well chum, I'm afraid I have to side with the school of thought which suggests that the holes in Hodgson's game were becoming more visible with each game he played. True, he had/has potential, and that offensive potential was the carrot which drew Buffalo in to make the trade. I'm not so sure the Canucks could have picked up even Kassian if they had kept Hodgson for the rest of the season and into the playoffs. Sure, maybe Hodgson would have shone, but his play in the past month did not support that belief.


I suppose, but by that same token who knows how Kassian is going to turn out? He didnt seem to live up to expectations in Buffalo or Vancouver to date, so maybe Sabre management were the ones who pulled the wool over Gillis' eyes.

This is all useless speculation regardless. There isnt much reason to think Hodgsons game will deteriorate until he gets demoted back to Peewee as you seem to be convinced. In my eyes the timing and the nature of the trade remain dubious.

Frankly its a bit disheartening to hear you say that everything Hodgson has accomplished to this point would have to be a miraculous fluke in order for this trade to work out.
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#193 riffraff

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:23 PM

Hey Riffraff,this Cody thread was apparently made to view his good times as a Canuck.
A few of you either don't get it ,don't care and would rather spew your hatred,or crap,as you lovingly call it.


So how is it that a player who is not a Canuck, is currently on a another nhl team, subject material in the "Canucks talk" forum....at least a general hockey discussion forum topic/thread...

Why reminisce about a player when you can admire/dislike in the present in a more appropriate forum setting: ie. sabers.com

All those living in the past can register there, and start threads like this.....hey Sabres fans I really miss coho and would like to share a tribute of his time as a Canuck. I really really miss my Cody. Hope your coach plays him for 60 minutes.

Let the rest of us living in the now freely speculate about current redundancies.


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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#194 King of the ES

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:41 PM

Frankly its a bit disheartening to hear you say that everything Hodgson has accomplished to this point would have to be a miraculous fluke in order for this trade to work out.


Oh, so you don't buy the theory that Hodgson only scored goals because of ice-time manipulation by Gillis & Vigneault? Why not? :rolleyes:

Deep down, I think everyone here wishes that we still had Cody. He's got "STAR" written all over him. He's only going to get better, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have 55 - 60 points this season. Kassian is an intriguing talent, but he's a total question mark. We've effectively traded a guy with a very, very high probability of being a top-six mainstay for the next 10 years, for a guy who maxes out at that level, and who could well be the next Bernier or the next Pyatt; two other "power forwards" sold to us by the Sabres.
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#195 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

Riffraff,if it really upsets you then you could just skip this particular thread or privately lobby the mods to drop it.

You have asked the mods to drop it publicly here but this is still an active thread.

You have every right to speculate on any thread you desire but picking and choosing to have your choice of threads active or eliminated means you ultimately limit means of expression for all.

I am not a moderator but I liked the op`s creativity in designing and posting visual appreciation for a former Canuck.
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#196 Gollumpus

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:52 PM

I suppose, but by that same token who knows how Kassian is going to turn out? He didnt seem to live up to expectations in Buffalo or Vancouver to date, so maybe Sabre management were the ones who pulled the wool over Gillis' eyes.


Well, what you say is a possibility. This being said, another poster (Dogbyte) in a different thread had an interesting comment, which for me put things in a bit of a different light.

Lastly, when you look at his conditioning, which is why the Canucks bring in specialists to do this stuff it is encouraging to notice that maybe the Sabres were a little neglectful in his development. They were perfectly happy letting Kassian beef up hoping he'd turn into Lucic (wanted a third or fourth line brawler) when Kassian has more skill and far better skating.


If the Sabres were grooming Kassian for a 3rd or 4th line grinder/fighter role then it's not too surpising that he would play a certain way and be at a certain weight to compliment that role. The Sabres could afford to use Kassian in this way as they were already blessed with a lot talent, size and/or experience on their wings.

Now with the Canucks, Kassian is being groomed for a top-6 role and his training over this off-season reflects his dedication to making this team and his future role.


This is all useless speculation regardless. There isnt much reason to think Hodgsons game will deteriorate until he gets demoted back to Peewee as you seem to be convinced. In my eyes the timing and the nature of the trade remain dubious.

Frankly its a bit disheartening to hear you say that everything Hodgson has accomplished to this point would have to be a miraculous fluke in order for this trade to work out.


True enough, it's speculation, but it helps pass the time until October. :)

I'm not suggesting that Hodgson is a bad player, nor have I ever said he was. I fully acknowledge Hodgson's strong points. What I am suggesting is that Hodgson is not the great player that a lot of posters on these forums are saying he already is, cuz he ain't.

His skating is not a strong point and needs improvement, but it can be somewhat improved. This is not a knock, and it is not an opinion. It is an observation and it is a fact. The same can be said for other areas of his game which do need improvement, and if he works at them he will get better. His stats here were helped along by him playing soft minutes in areas where he could shine and gain a bit of confidence, and minimize the risks should he make a mistake. I don't see it as being a great surprise that Hodgson's game went downhill when he got to Buffalo. I will also not be surprised should Hodgson's game improve next season.

This being said, Hodgson is not the next "Great one" and will never be confused with Crosby.

regards,
G.
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#197 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:20 PM

Gump ,every team is hopeful that a prospect can step up and take on a larger role sooner than anticipated.
Gillis stated Kassian was ``NHL ready now`` so I don`t think this fan base thought that meant the fourth line or the pressbox.
To state Kassian can compete for a top six role while not even playing in the most important game of the year (game 5 vs L.A.) is extending the same dialogue that Gillis used when acquiring Kass.
He was not ready for a top nine role in Buffalo.Let`s hope he can just make this team and keep improving his game.

Now with the Canucks, Kassian is being groomed for a top-6 role and his training over this off-season reflects his dedication to making this team and his future role.`Gump
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#198 Navyblue

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:45 PM

Seriously, you have to actually watch hockey in order to post here? Gee, I've just been winging it all this time. From reading your posts I assumed that not having any kind of understanding of the game was the norm.

My bad.




As I pointed out in my post (which you quoted, so I assume you read read it), Hodgson was under-performing at the time of the trade (2g 1a in the previous month). My understanding is that that's not that great. And that's something which I was indicated was AHL worthy.

Yeah, Hodgson had 3rd line minutes, because he wasn't good enough to play higher. I've heard there's more to this game than just scoring points (although scoring apparently does help you win games). His defensive play was really not very good, his physical game was non-existant, and his face-offs were very sub-par, along with his low-end of average skating ability. This, along with his scoring ability drying up for about a month, made him AHL worthy.

It also meant he had to be moved, sooner rther than later, because he was driving his own value down.




Yeah, I get your point. Having Hodgson here, and under-performing would have been so much more valuable to the team, especially with an eye to an off-season trade, where Hodgson's under-performance would have been visible on a much larger stage.




I guess they were shocked because Gillis didn't tell them that he was looking to trade Hodgson. I've heard rumours that some GM's don't keep all of the other GM's informed as to everything they are going to do.

Gillis had picked which team(s) with which he wanted to deal, and what he wanted to get out of them. When he got a yes, the deal was done. Why would Gillis bother announcing to 25+ other teams that he was dealing Hodgson if he didn't want anything from them?

Further to the above point, about Hodgson driving his own price down, if Gillis had announced that he wanted to deal Hodgson it could have had a negative impact for the Canucks. Given enough time (as in days), various sports pundits would have weighed in on the value of Hodgson, and while they would very likely have commented on his offensive potential, they would have also noted the various negatives in his game, which might have helped sway the opinion of a rival GM, and resulted in a return of something less than Kassian.

Assuming the Canucks didn't trade Hodgson when they did, and he continued to play poorly for the remainder of the season (which he did) and then into the playoffs, would they have been able to count on getting a return as good as Kassian? I don't believe they could.




Will Hodgson have a much better NHL career than Kassian? Maybe. I see you discovered the BOLD and underline buttons. Those are fun to play with, aren't they?

As with most "Cody-ites" out there, unless what is written is 100% pro-Hodgson then you are a hater. I see any sort of negative comments about Hodgson as stating the obvious.

Hodgson is not a fast skater, but he could be a better skater. He is not good in the face-off circle, although there's always the chance that he could improve. He is not a physical player, but he could be better with a bit more weight and a bit more confidence. He is not a reliable defensive player, although one could always hope that he will improve. The response of, "He scored 16 goals in 63 games" is all well and good, but for me the lustre of that statement fades if the guy is on the ice for about as many goals as he has points... or would you blame this on his linemates (normally Higgins and Hansen more often than not)?

By "much better NHL career" do you mean that Hodgson will score more points than Kassian? All things being equal, I don't see why he wouldn't. I don't see this as being any great revelation. Hodgson has the potential to score a lot of points, assuming he gets the right line mates and his coach plays him in situations where he can rely on his offensive abilities and not the other aspects of his game where he is lacking (yes, cue the "AV didn't use Cody right" comments). If Hodgson didn't out-point Kassian I'd extremely surprised, albeit pleasantly so.

However, who has (or had) the potential to be more valuable to the Canucks, Kassian or Hodgson? The answer is Kassian.

Kassian is bigger, stronger, a better skater, and plays a much more physical game (something which the team was lacking even more than any offensive which Hodgson might have been able to supply). He can generate space for the skilled players. He can wear down the opposing players. He's faster on the back-check.

Kassian is not without scoring potential, an inconvenient truth with is usually over-looked by his critics. He can be a 20+ goals and over 50 points type of guy in the NHL. Heck, he might even go higher than those numbers with the right linemates.

Kassian has already shown a commitment to improving himself and making this team. I won't bother with the videos showing him during a work-out. I'm reasonably certain that it's common knowledge that Kassian has apparently lost body fat weight and is now replacing it with muscle weight.

I believe he's a smart, very coachable player, and he has the potential to be a top-6 guy on this team for over a decade. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.

regards,
G.


I normally cut down a lot of the post, to make it more quotable, but that was too nice. I am and was a big Hodgson fan...but there's no arguing on this one. MG made the right decision for this team, the Vancouver Canucks. Cody got a good deal out of the whole situation too...

I couldn't have put it better myself (even if I tried).

Edited by Navyblue, 31 August 2012 - 08:51 PM.

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#199 nuck nit

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

However, who has (or had) the potential to be more valuable to the Canucks, Kassian or Hodgson? The answer is Kassian.

Will Hodgson have a much better NHL career than Kassian? Maybe.

Kassian has already shown a commitment to improving himself and making this team.

Hodgson .....continued to play poorly for the remainder of the season and then into the playoffs.

As with most "Cody-ites" out there, unless what is written is 100% pro-Hodgson then you are a hater. Gump

Gump,how about stop the criticism and comparions and `hatred`nonsense talk ,already.The young men are two different players playing entirely different styles of hockey.

I could argue every one of your points by replacing Kassian`s name with Hodgson`s and vice-versa.
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#200 wattevr

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:36 AM

I went to the draft where we picked grabner. I kind of miss him too. But the world isn't made of ifs and buts. It's written by the victors. And for me, I'd write "if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. "

I reall wish the little lawyer would just sort this crap out and give us a reason to talk about


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Walter... Why's it always gotta be about 'Nam.

F@$K it. Lets go bowling.

#201 King of the ES

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:35 AM

Yeah, Hodgson had 3rd line minutes, because he wasn't good enough to play higher. I've heard there's more to this game than just scoring points (although scoring apparently does help you win games). His defensive play was really not very good, his physical game was non-existant, and his face-offs were very sub-par, along with his low-end of average skating ability. This, along with his scoring ability drying up for about a month, made him AHL worthy.


He wasn't good enough because we were just too skilled up front.

Kesler was a total dog for his first 3 seasons with us. Henrik really didn't produce all that much until he was 25 years old. You're saying that because Cody had 1 bad month in his rookie season, he should've been dumped to the AHL?

It also meant he had to be moved, sooner rther than later, because he was driving his own value down.


Huh? So you think he was getting worse? Are you saying that Hodgson's peaked?

Assuming the Canucks didn't trade Hodgson when they did, and he continued to play poorly for the remainder of the season (which he did) and then into the playoffs, would they have been able to count on getting a return as good as Kassian? I don't believe they could.


Really? GMs are that short-sighted to you? Yeah, let's forget that he was a 10th overall pick, let's forget that he captained Team Canada on multiple occasions, let's forget that he was THN's top prospect, let's forget that he was voted as the best leader by OHL coaches, let's forget that he was voted as the most intelligent player by the OHL coaches, he had 1 unproductive month playing on the Vancouver Canucks' 3rd line as a rookie - CAREER OVER!

Hodgson is not a fast skater, but he could be a better skater. He is not good in the face-off circle, although there's always the chance that he could improve. He is not a physical player, but he could be better with a bit more weight and a bit more confidence. He is not a reliable defensive player, although one could always hope that he will improve.


You could say the exact same things about Henrik Sedin. Who cares? Generating offense is what's most important in this league.

By "much better NHL career" do you mean that Hodgson will score more points than Kassian? All things being equal, I don't see why he wouldn't. I don't see this as being any great revelation. Hodgson has the potential to score a lot of points, assuming he gets the right line mates and his coach plays him in situations where he can rely on his offensive abilities and not the other aspects of his game where he is lacking (yes, cue the "AV didn't use Cody right" comments). If Hodgson didn't out-point Kassian I'd extremely surprised, albeit pleasantly so.

However, who has (or had) the potential to be more valuable to the Canucks, Kassian or Hodgson? The answer is Kassian.

Kassian is bigger, stronger, a better skater, and plays a much more physical game (something which the team was lacking even more than any offensive which Hodgson might have been able to supply). He can generate space for the skilled players. He can wear down the opposing players. He's faster on the back-check.


This is hilarious.

Points will always trump "size" and "physicality". That's why guys like the Sedin's earn the type of money that they do, and guys like Travis Moen earn the type of money that he does. Guys with offensive talents like Cody has are FAR more scarce than guys with size and "skating ability" (sort of) like what Zack has. Mike Gillis made this trade with Milan Lucic in mind, and he's betting on Kassian becoming that guy. If Kassian's career plays out as a shuffling-around-the-bottom-six type guy, while Cody's is as a top-six, offensive-generating mainstay, the trade is a total flop, and could be reasonably compared to us acquiring Markus Naslund (top-six) for Alek Stojanov (bottom-six).

Kassian is not without scoring potential, an inconvenient truth with is usually over-looked by his critics. He can be a 20+ goals and over 50 points type of guy in the NHL. Heck, he might even go higher than those numbers with the right linemates.

Kassian has already shown a commitment to improving himself and making this team. I won't bother with the videos showing him during a work-out. I'm reasonably certain that it's common knowledge that Kassian has apparently lost body fat weight and is now replacing it with muscle weight.

I believe he's a smart, very coachable player, and he has the potential to be a top-6 guy on this team for over a decade. I'm looking forward to seeing him play.


You're not saying much here. Everyone has "potential". He "can" do this, he "can" do that. The fact that a 6'3" professional hockey player had BF issues to begin with is actually pretty frightening.
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#202 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:21 AM

Points will always trump "size" and "physicality".


I refer you to the 2010 - 11 finals.

regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#203 King of the ES

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:46 AM

I refer you to the 2010 - 11 finals.

regards,
G.


Oh, you mean those finals where we scored 8 goals in 7 games?

regards,
K.
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#204 Navyblue

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

Oh, you mean those finals where we scored 8 goals in 7 games?

regards,
K.


Yes, because their size and physicality based team didn't allow us to get anywhere near the net or anywhere else without being pummeled.

You clearly didn't get the point there.

Do you think Cody would have lasted five minutes in the Bruins series without having his damn head taken off ? Remember the Ottawa game?
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#205 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

He wasn't good enough because we were just too skilled up front.


Yup, which also doesn't remove the fact that his defensive play was really not very good, his physical game was non-existant, and his face-offs were very sub-par, to go along with his low-end of average skating ability.


Kesler was a total dog for his first 3 seasons with us. Henrik really didn't produce all that much until he was 25 years old. You're saying that because Cody had 1 bad month in his rookie season, he should've been dumped to the AHL?


I believe I said, "AHL worthy", as in not good enough for the NHL but rather worthy of the AHL.


Huh? So you think he was getting worse? Are you saying that Hodgson's peaked?


No, and I'm not sure how you derived this conclusion.


Really? GMs are that short-sighted to you? Yeah, let's forget that he was a 10th overall pick, let's forget that he captained Team Canada on multiple occasions, let's forget that he was THN's top prospect, let's forget that he was voted as the best leader by OHL coaches, let's forget that he was voted as the most intelligent player by the OHL coaches, he had 1 unproductive month playing on the Vancouver Canucks' 3rd line as a rookie - CAREER OVER!


"It also meant he had to be moved, sooner rather than later, because he was driving his own value down."

Take Hodgson's poor play in that month, and add to it the chances that he would wind up in situations where the weak points of his game would be exposed (which would hurt the team's chances), or he even might be demoted to the pressbox. What does that do to his trade value? It drives it down, right?

If Hodgson were playing well, like from the month prior to his dry spell, then I believe the team would have risked keeping him, and the chance that he would have a bad playoffs, and then have traded him after the season.


regards,
G.
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#206 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

As soon as I saw the title I thought to myself; this is going to be seven pages of Hodgson fanboys and haters arguing back an forth...

And guess what? I was right!

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 01 September 2012 - 11:26 AM.

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Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#207 King of the ES

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:39 AM

Do you think Cody would have lasted five minutes in the Bruins series without having his damn head taken off ? Remember the Ottawa game?


Funny you should mention it.

Didn't Cody score some sort of highlight reel, clutch goal against the Bruins in January?
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#208 King of the ES

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:09 AM

Yup, which also doesn't remove the fact that his defensive play was really not very good, his physical game was non-existant, and his face-offs were very sub-par, to go along with his low-end of average skating ability.


Sedin's defensive play aren't very good, they have zero physical game, average at face-offs, average skating ability. Same could be said about a lot of other guys, too. Pat Kane. Steve Stamkos. Jeff Skinner.

It's very easy to nit-pick anybody's game, and find holes in it. Guys like Eric Lindros don't come along very often.


I believe I said, "AHL worthy", as in not good enough for the NHL but rather worthy of the AHL.


Even though he was 3rd on our team in goals, he should've been in the AHL. OK.

Oh, I almost forgot that those goals were due to Mike Gillis manipulating his situational play. Carry-on.
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#209 Navyblue

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:16 AM

Funny you should mention it.

Didn't Cody score some sort of highlight reel, clutch goal against the Bruins in January?


Bold type. Big difference between JAnuary and the SCF.

I'll ask again,

Do you think Cody would have lasted five minutes in the Bruins series without having his damn head taken off ? Remember the Ottawa game?

Edited by Navyblue, 01 September 2012 - 11:18 AM.

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#210 Navyblue

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

Sedin's defensive play aren't very good, they have zero physical game, average at face-offs, average skating ability. Same could be said about a lot of other guys, too. Pat Kane. Steve Stamkos. Jeff Skinner.

It's very easy to nit-pick anybody's game, and find holes in it. Guys like Eric Lindros don't come along very often.




Even though he was 3rd on our team in goals, he should've been in the AHL. OK.

Oh, I almost forgot that those goals were due to Mike Gillis manipulating his situational play. Carry-on.


Even if there are roles to be played of that nature, they were obviously already taken and Cody/his camp couldn't wait for the roles to open up for him.
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