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Do you honestly believe we improved enough?


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#31 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:17 AM

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


I do...to an extent.

Garrison is a player who has shown improvement year after year after year and there is no reason other than emo whiny rock ricking to suggest otherwise. He is likely going to make a big mark with our D just like he did for Florida. People saying his success is all because of Campbell need to give their heads a shake. After they finish shaking they need to go back and check out how Campbell was doing before being paired with Garrison. Anyone suggesting that wasn't a two way street in terms of their pairing might as well flop.

The insurance argument isn't bunk you just don't have any real argument against it. However....unless I slept in and the season started already the word on the street is that Luongo is getting traded. Word is he's asked for a trade and word is it's getting worked on. So this pissing and moaning paragraph is a little premature.

The bottom 6 needs little to know work done on it. The offense is not lackluster either but it has a big hole on the second line. Kesler is not a guy who can do it on his own and neither is Booth. These guys are stars but they aren't the stars CDC wants to think they are. Kesler is a top 6 not a top 3. That line needs an anchor. The biggest thing this team needs is a top 6 forward who can slot in on the second line and fill in on the first line if needed. Personally I'd like to see 2 top 6 guys and have Burrows play a 2nd line/3rd line role but that's not needed really.

Did you see how we went from one game of the Stanley Cup to losing in the 1st round? Because if you say that you should be able to see the other way as well.

The D is better, the goaltending should be resolved and we still need a top 6 forward. The team hasn't taken a step back it just hasn't taken a big enough step forward yet.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 29 August 2012 - 08:18 AM.

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#32 Franksedin

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:20 AM

Our biggest need is a 3rd line centre. Last year we had Hodgson and Pahlsson, this year it looks like we have either Manny (IF he regains his old form) or Schroeder (IF he proves he's ready for the show).


Im pretty sure coho was a big "if" going into the season. Looking at their ahl experience I would actually say that Schroeder is less of an if question. Similar offense numbers with a better defensive game, greater speed, and pk experience.
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#33 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:21 AM

Note to self: do not read threads posted at 1:00 am in the morning
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-

#34 winacup

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:26 AM

we've improved just enough to double the number of games we won this year in the playoffs. another first round exit is in the cards if we don't do anything more.
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#35 Shift-4

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:29 AM

We only lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champs while missing our number one scorer (defending Art Ross winner for those not paying attention........that's you OP)

We don't need to be much better. We need to be healthier. The LA Kings were probably the healthiest Stanley Cup winners I have ever seen. That key ingredient to their success is an abnormality.

Give this Canuck team that kind of good luck and I like our chances.


Plus...........further deals will be made once the CBA issue is settled.
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#36 winacup

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:33 AM

when have the canucks ever had enough good luck to win it all? that's right......never.

Edited by winacup, 29 August 2012 - 08:36 AM.

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#37 Geoff Peterson

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:07 AM

No... where's the beef?
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#38 King of the ES

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:47 AM

The D is better, the goaltending should be resolved and we still need a top 6 forward. The team hasn't taken a step back it just hasn't taken a big enough step forward yet.


The D is not at all better. I don't know how any reasonable person can suggest that Jason Garrison + whatever scrub (Tanev, maybe, or Alberts) gets 6th D duties will give us more value than Sami Salo and Aaron Rome will. This debate has been beaten to death, so I won't go into it, but I'll just say that I expect people to miss Salo A LOT as the season progresses. Rome, too, was an underrated, reliable guy. Both will be missed.

The goaltending hasn't been resolved yet, and if Luongo is summoned to camp by Gillis, it's going to be a big, big mess.

IMO, the team needs a pretty significant shakeup. These guys are too cozy; the core has been together and in tact for too long. It is not a good sign when a team gets to G7 of the SCF, then follows it up with a 5-game, 1st-round no-show the following year. A worse sign is when that happens at a time when nearly the entire core is > 30 years old.

Shane Doan might provide that shakeup, but he wants to stay in Phoenix, so I don't really understand the heavy desire of the Canucks to bring him in. I can't see the Luongo deal providing the shakeup, unless a piece of our core, like Kesler, is included in the trade, because I don't see how Luongo individually brings us back much of significance.
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#39 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:49 AM

I love the immediate homer responses - "You're a bandwangoner!", "we won 2 Presidents Trophies!", "do you even watch hockey!", "Don't say mean things about my Canucks!".

Hilarious.
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#40 Walkin'2929

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:50 AM

The team does not look quite as solid it did when they made it all the way to the SCF in 2011. But, on paper, the team looks to be as good as it was in the 2011-2012 season, when they went on to win the President's Trophy.
True, based on what we have seen in the past, this is not looking like a cup winning team right at this very moment. But, let's not forget, a lot can happen between now and the Playoffs in 2013. There will be some trades, injuries, and maybe a player or two will have a breakout year, or even a dud year.
It's almost impossible to predict what kind of a season they will have at this stage. The chips will fall whichever way they may. Good luck to them anyway.
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#41 dorrcoq

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.


There is a possibility you could be hit by a bus and not care about this anymore.What does one player's "failure" (Booth) have anything to do with the possible success or failure of another player (Garrison)? And the Booth situation is far from being classified as a disaster yet. Except maybe in your world of instant gratification.
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#42 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:53 AM

:bored:

Edited by canuck_trevor16, 29 August 2012 - 10:54 AM.

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One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


WIN THE CUP FOR SALO CAMPAIGN

#43 thad

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:57 AM

The D is not at all better. I don't know how any reasonable person can suggest that Jason Garrison + whatever scrub (Tanev, maybe, or Alberts) gets 6th D duties will give us more value than Sami Salo and Aaron Rome will. This debate has been beaten to death, so I won't go into it, but I'll just say that I expect people to miss Salo A LOT as the season progresses. Rome, too, was an underrated, reliable guy. Both will be missed.

The goaltending hasn't been resolved yet, and if Luongo is summoned to camp by Gillis, it's going to be a big, big mess.

IMO, the team needs a pretty significant shakeup. These guys are too cozy; the core has been together and in tact for too long. It is not a good sign when a team gets to G7 of the SCF, then follows it up with a 5-game, 1st-round no-show the following year. A worse sign is when that happens at a time when nearly the entire core is > 30 years old.

Shane Doan might provide that shakeup, but he wants to stay in Phoenix, so I don't really understand the heavy desire of the Canucks to bring him in. I can't see the Luongo deal providing the shakeup, unless a piece of our core, like Kesler, is included in the trade, because I don't see how Luongo individually brings us back much of significance.


Salo sucks.. He's old and injury prone, signing that deal in Tampa is really going to hurt their franchise over the next 2 years.
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#44 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

Since season end:

- Re-signed Gillis and AV
- Lost Pahlsson
- Lost Salo
- Signed Jason Garrison
- Re-signed Pinizzotto
- Re-signed Ebbett
- Signed Derek Joslin
- Signed Patrick Mullen
- Re-signed Raymond
- Re-signed Weise
- Signed Desbiens
- Re-signed Lack


We basically exchanged top-4 defenders and lost our rental center.

Our major moves haven't been made yet, so it's kinda hard to judge anything right now. But that doesn't stop people from judging, does it? Premature judgement is usually performed by immature people.
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#45 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:16 AM

Oh damn, we lost Rome too. WE'RE FRACKED!
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#46 L'Orange

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:50 AM

The D is not at all better. I don't know how any reasonable person can suggest that Jason Garrison + whatever scrub (Tanev, maybe, or Alberts) gets 6th D duties will give us more value than Sami Salo and Aaron Rome will. This debate has been beaten to death, so I won't go into it, but I'll just say that I expect people to miss Salo A LOT as the season progresses. Rome, too, was an underrated, reliable guy. Both will be missed.

The goaltending hasn't been resolved yet, and if Luongo is summoned to camp by Gillis, it's going to be a big, big mess.

IMO, the team needs a pretty significant shakeup. These guys are too cozy; the core has been together and in tact for too long. It is not a good sign when a team gets to G7 of the SCF, then follows it up with a 5-game, 1st-round no-show the following year. A worse sign is when that happens at a time when nearly the entire core is > 30 years old.

Shane Doan might provide that shakeup, but he wants to stay in Phoenix, so I don't really understand the heavy desire of the Canucks to bring him in. I can't see the Luongo deal providing the shakeup, unless a piece of our core, like Kesler, is included in the trade, because I don't see how Luongo individually brings us back much of significance.


Salo is too old and battered now to be a top 4 defenceman. Sorry. I think the world of Sami but that last season (especially the dirty hit from that scumbag Marchand) really showed Salo's expiration date. Adding a player ten years his junior is a brilliant move. Garrison is big at 6'2' 220 lbs and has just as fearsome a slapshot. How is that a downgrade?

Rome??? Sure Rome was cheap, but all plug defensman are. The hit on Horton was a glaring mistake. Rome was a non-factor on the Canucks. Let's not kid ourselves.

The defence is much better than last year. Mark my words.

The offence needs some size in the top 6. Gillis will deliver very quickly after the Collective Bargaining Agreement is settlled.

Patience CDC, Patience!

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 29 August 2012 - 11:51 AM.

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#47 AFrame14

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:52 AM

So tired of hearing this!! Don't u realize the cba negotiations are holding everything up. That included trading Lou, Doan signing etc. wait till the season is actually starting before making another one of these redundant threads op!! I know the summer is long but be paitent. Garrison will impress, and Lou will bring back some players to fill holes..
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NUCKS FOR THE CUP

#48 Brad Marchand

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:55 AM

This thread reeks of the "I want it now!" attitude.
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Luc Bourdon & Rick Rypien: Forever Canucks

#49 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

Why are we asking this question now? We have to wait until Doan, Arnott & Luongo get signed/traded.
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#50 Shift-4

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

This thread reeks of the "I want it now!" attitude.


I thought it was more "Now hear my stupid"
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#51 higgyfan

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

The team will play better than last year, due to more rest between seasons. Right now, the only improvement is Garrison. Hopefully the defensive depth we lost will be made up by rookies. An extra vet D may be required.

The playoff do not begin until April. By then, the 2nd line winger and 3rd line centre spots will be acquired via rookie placement and\or goalie trade.

If these gaps haven't been effectively filled by March, it's unlikely the team will reach the conferance finals.
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#52 EddieVedder

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:14 PM

The key for me is if our older players can keep playing at their level. You have to look at the Sedins and Burrows and wonder how much they can compete with the other younger and faster top lines in hockey. The Sedins, have never had explosive speed, but Ive always felt theyve had enough. Burrows was not skating last season the way he had been in seasons past.
We need Kesler to learn to use his linemates again the way he has used Burrows, Samuelson and Raymond in the past. I dont buy into the fact that him coming back too early from his injury hindered his production. Mike Gillis felt confident enough in our top 2 centres to move a scoring centre in Hodgson- he would not have done that if he had any inclinations that Kesler wasnt healthy enough to produce. Kesler just has to find that chemistry with his wingers again. The other factor is Kassian. He has all the tools to be an impact player. Speed, hands and size. If he can be a producer on our top 2 lines, our depth improves dramatically, as it allows for 2 of Hansen, Higgins, Raymond to be used on the third lines.
People keep hoping Malthotra will return to form. I like him, but i just dont see it happening. You lose something when you suffer an injury like he did. In his case, it wasnt just a considerable amount of vision in one of his eyes, but also confidence and the willingness to battle as hard as it takes without thinking twice about. I loved seeing Lapierre as a 3rd line centre.. In my opinon, he fits that role better than Malhotra does now.
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#53 Dogbyte

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:14 PM

The D is not at all better. I don't know how any reasonable person can suggest that Jason Garrison + whatever scrub (Tanev, maybe, or Alberts) gets 6th D duties will give us more value than Sami Salo and Aaron Rome will. This debate has been beaten to death, so I won't go into it, but I'll just say that I expect people to miss Salo A LOT as the season progresses. Rome, too, was an underrated, reliable guy. Both will be missed.

The goaltending hasn't been resolved yet, and if Luongo is summoned to camp by Gillis, it's going to be a big, big mess.

IMO, the team needs a pretty significant shakeup. These guys are too cozy; the core has been together and in tact for too long. It is not a good sign when a team gets to G7 of the SCF, then follows it up with a 5-game, 1st-round no-show the following year. A worse sign is when that happens at a time when nearly the entire core is > 30 years old.

Shane Doan might provide that shakeup, but he wants to stay in Phoenix, so I don't really understand the heavy desire of the Canucks to bring him in. I can't see the Luongo deal providing the shakeup, unless a piece of our core, like Kesler, is included in the trade, because I don't see how Luongo individually brings us back much of significance.

Salo is an old man and could just barely keep up with the play enough to keep it status quo, he could not provide a physical prescence anymore and struggled as the season progressed. Anyone that can't see Garrison being a huge upgrade is on glue, a huge Canucks homer, overly sentimental, senile, or has lost a nut due to a hockey related incident.

Edited by Dogbyte, 29 August 2012 - 12:19 PM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#54 mmmcookies1975

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:19 PM

I reserve the right to not comment on the team until the season actually starts. B)
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#55 L'Orange

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

LOUD NOISES!
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#56 Shift-4

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:38 PM

I reserve the right to not comment on the team until the season actually starts. B)


You clearly don't belong here then...............get out while you still have a chance.

::D
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#57 Remy

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:39 PM

Someone just has to make this thread every year. The last two years we won the President's Trophy and in one of those years we were a win away from the Cup. Some people just really lack a sense of perspective. You can't have a huge shake up every year. In fact, not making a lot of changes is probably a GOOD sign.
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#58 Shift-4

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:41 PM

Someone just has to make this thread every year.


More like every week
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#59 icycold

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

We still need upgrades but MG will do his best, anyway I can't start any topics for some reason or i would but omgosh check this out!!!

Neal reigns supreme among fantasy left wingsTop-40 Fantasy Hockey Left Wing Rankings:

Over our Sedin???? man who are they kidding???? Too FUNNY!!!
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HABS SUCK!!!

#60 Tragoedia

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

This thread reeks of the "I want it now!" attitude.

And if they don't get it they throw a temper tantrum.
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