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Do you honestly believe we improved enough?


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#61 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:52 PM

Gillis has always streesed that he is always trying to improve the team. In losing players this off season, means that younger guys with upside are going to get a shot at making the canucks aswell. Shroeder,K-Conn,Sauve, and Lack have all putin two seasons in the AHL and need to have a long look see. The canucks also have the impending trade of Luongo coming up.

The Canucks have a solid core of players, its just adding the right pieces to the mix now, so I dont see any reason not to be excited about the Canucks chances again. Just like two seasons ago, a couple pieces and they are a strong contender again!
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#62 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:53 PM

Not really, no. Regular season success is irrelevant at this point as we've shown we can dominate during that span and it's completely meaningless for us - 82 games of filler. Goal scoring in the last two years during the playoffs has been our Achilles Heel and we've yet to address that.

Edited by Tortorella's Rant, 29 August 2012 - 02:54 PM.

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#63 CanuckCup1316

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:03 PM

I dissagree. We have improved and we won the Presidents trophy last year. We still have a goalie to trade and possible mid season or trade deadline deals to solve any problems we may have. I think that Booth, Raymond, Kesler, Ballard, and Kassian are going to have a better season that last. And in some of those cases thats not saying much lol. So I think as is we are a cup contender with the chance to improve our teams chances still to come.
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#64 thehamburglar

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

It's all good. We improved a bit, and we're essentially the same team that almost won cup.
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#65 Bodee

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:07 PM

Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.


What percentage 5 on 5 and what percentage from defenders?
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#66 Bodee

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:14 PM

we need power forward
another BIG good Defensman
an enforcer
3rd line centre that can play second

3-4 pieces away from having a team playoff built


What he says.
D,J. you and I seem to agree exactly on what's needed............except I would prefer a good player who enforces in the Lucic or Neal style.
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#67 Avicii

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.


How many did we score in the playoffs?
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#68 King of the ES

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:39 PM

Salo is too old and battered now to be a top 4 defenceman. Sorry. I think the world of Sami but that last season (especially the dirty hit from that scumbag Marchand) really showed Salo's expiration date. Adding a player ten years his junior is a brilliant move. Garrison is big at 6'2' 220 lbs and has just as fearsome a slapshot. How is that a downgrade?


Oh, the memories.

I remember when that Keith Ballard guy was acquired from Florida in 2010. He had "played 25+ MPG", he "could move the puck", he "could skate like the wind", he "is on the verge of a breakout", etc.

Jason Garrison is mostly an unknown commodity. We've given up on one of the most consistent players we've ever had, over the course of 9 seasons, and have invested HEAVILY in what could well be the next bust acquisition from Florida. I don't get it.

Especially for this team, operating in this short window, Sami Salo was perfect. A roll of the dice like Garrison on a 6-year, big-money deal, is a weak strategy.
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#69 ButterBean

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

The D is not at all better. I don't know how any reasonable person can suggest that Jason Garrison + whatever scrub (Tanev, maybe, or Alberts) gets 6th D duties will give us more value than Sami Salo and Aaron Rome will. This debate has been beaten to death, so I won't go into it, but I'll just say that I expect people to miss Salo A LOT as the season progresses. Rome, too, was an underrated, reliable guy. Both will be missed.

The goaltending hasn't been resolved yet, and if Luongo is summoned to camp by Gillis, it's going to be a big, big mess.

IMO, the team needs a pretty significant shakeup. These guys are too cozy; the core has been together and in tact for too long. It is not a good sign when a team gets to G7 of the SCF, then follows it up with a 5-game, 1st-round no-show the following year. A worse sign is when that happens at a time when nearly the entire core is > 30 years old.

Shane Doan might provide that shakeup, but he wants to stay in Phoenix, so I don't really understand the heavy desire of the Canucks to bring him in. I can't see the Luongo deal providing the shakeup, unless a piece of our core, like Kesler, is included in the trade, because I don't see how Luongo individually brings us back much of significance.

Salo was slow, old, and obviously not durable at all. He can't withstand a consistent top 4 role, and he doesn't fit a bottom pairing role either, where we have Tanev who will likely see a full-time job there.
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#70 RonMexico

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:51 PM

Easy to score goals against the Oilers, not so much against the Kings.


http://forum.canucks...ivision-theory/
The Weak Division Theory is a myth. It's not as much a factor as it is purported to be.

Edited by RonMexico, 29 August 2012 - 03:54 PM.

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#71 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

Salo out. Garrison in.

We get it. It's a gamble. You don't win the Stanley Cup by being a feline. Sometimes you need to take a gamble.
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#72 Riviera82

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:13 PM

Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.


We do seem to be trending downward though. We peaked in 09/10 and have been dropping since then. We seem to need a shot of something or someone to make us a scoring juggernaut again.
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#73 Sensemaker

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:27 PM

Garrison is unproven? He played a shutdown role in his first full year with Florida and broke out offensively last year while still being reliable defensively. Garrison makes our defense harder to play against as well as being a legitmate power play threat. Obviously Luongo will be dealt, but MG is taking his time and looking for the right deal, we have TONS of time to trade him, it's not like he's stuck with us forever if we can't trade him before the season starts. Plus our prospects will have a chance to show what they're made of this year. Who knows, if anyone surprises, Kassian could be a 40-50 point power forward, Schroeder could be a 2nd line playmaker, and Jensen could be a top 6 sniper. It could be too optimistic but who knows, only time will tell.


Garrison is unproven and might suffer the same fate as Ballard.

It is not obvious that Luongo will be traded. Schneider is a ripe readable asset.

Expecting Kassian to be a 40-50 point producer in what might be his first full time year in the bigs is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Expecting Schroeder to be a 2C is unrealistic. He is likely too small for the NHL and he certainly won't be well matched against the bigger talents of the league; false hopes.

Jensen might be the most ready player to make the jump but on a consecutive President's Trophy winning team, he might have a hard time cracking the lineup.


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#74 nuck nit

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:28 PM

Yes,that Samuelsson guy in Detroit scored 30 times and Ehrhoff had 44 points.

That was the year Samuelsson had 15 points in 12 playoff games and led the team in scoring.

Two PP specialists left with Salo gone now.Barring a trade this year won't replicate 2009/ 2010,either.
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#75 Sensemaker

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:32 PM

I know, if we don't hurry up and trade luongo for a top-six forward, we'll be dwelling the cellars with edmonton for years!!!!!!!!!!


Huh?
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#76 Joffrey Lupul

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:35 PM

Lets see we upgraded our D, lost a horrible D man that AV no longer can use, have May Ray on a cheap contract and Ryan Kesler who is heeling properly. Not to mention the expendable goalie.

Yes, we are fine.
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#77 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:52 PM

We already have all the pieces in place. Luck, momentum and injuries play their role every year.
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#78 oldnews

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:54 PM

A nice piece of blueberry pie would go down pretty well right about now.
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#79 beer&meat

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:58 PM

We do seem to be trending downward though. We peaked in 09/10 and have been dropping since then. We seem to need a shot of something or someone to make us a scoring juggernaut again.


Scoring is down league wide, this is not a Canucks issue. Even having 10 less goals sored for the Canucks (10/11) they were 1st in the league.
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

View PostTheChosen1, on 03 February 2011 - 06:10 PM, said:

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs

#80 Riviera82

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:15 PM

Scoring is down league wide, this is not a Canucks issue. Even having 10 less goals sored for the Canucks (10/11) they were 1st in the league.


We went down by another 13 goals last year while some other teams improved on their scoring.
Boston - 269
Pittsburgh - 282
Philly - 264
Ottawa - 249
Nashville - 237

Most of the playoff teams in the west did drop in scoring whereas the 4 eastern teams above improved by quite a lot. I guess we are both kind of right.
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#81 Eh! Team

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:22 PM

Luongo for Lecavalier
6'4
208lbs
Center
Left Shot
Career Playoff Statistics
02/03 11gp 3-3-6
03/04 23gp 9-7-16 won stanley cup
05/06 5gp 1-3-4
06/07 6gp 5-2-7
10/11 18gp 6-13-19
He is exactly what this team needs.

Henrik, Kesler, Lecavalier, Malhotra, Lapierre not bad

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#82 L'Orange

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:22 PM

I don't know what WE"RE YELLING ABOUT!

You know blueberry pie fresh from the oven with a light drizzle of maple syrup and two scoops of vanilla ice cream would really work for me too.

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 29 August 2012 - 05:23 PM.

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#83 Sensemaker

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

we need power forward
another BIG good Defensman
an enforcer
3rd line centre that can play second

3-4 pieces away from having a team playoff built


This. If this is done, then Luongo helps win the Cup. If not, Schneider can't win it either and will suffer the same fate Luongo has.
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#84 Riviera82

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:54 PM

This. If this is done, then Luongo helps win the Cup. If not, Schneider can't win it either and will suffer the same fate Luongo has.


Luongo sealed his own fate, he wasn't good enough when we needed him the most and not just in the SCF. Cory has outplayed him and that is why Luongo is going, end of story.
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#85 Moonshinefe

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:08 PM

And I'm sure that you'll be claiming some league-wide conspiracy towards the Canucks if (read: when) they don't.


Nope. And what's up with the read: when part? You seem pretty sure the Canucks won't be getting a cup.
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#86 Watermelons

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

As much as it pains many CDC'ers to see this, trading Schneider would be the only way to acquire even one of the players mentioned by the OP (top forward, number 1 d-man). Before continuing the argument, I'll first clarify that I am a Luongo fan but I'll try to make my argument as unbiased as possible.

Potential - Clearly, Schneider has more "potential" to do well because he is younger, and has plenty of time to evolve his game. With Luongo, on the other hand, his game is already polished and he has spent the last 10-15 ish years developing his game to the point where it is now. I really don't think he will change his game, which has been very successful too much.

Play - Hard to judge who has more skill, because both of them have exceptional stats. But because they both have such a close level of skill, Schneider's increased potential will give him the edge.

Consistency - Kind of related to play, I'd argue that Luongo is more consistent than Schneider at this point of his career. You can argue all you want about how Schneider has been great in the playoffs, but he doesn't have a single win, and I hardly count 5 playoff games and 68 regular season games as a sample to judge any player. Luongo has had very similar stats throughout his regular season career, and in the playoffs, although he does have his ocassional bad games, he also has as many exceptional games. (But this might not be what teams are looking for because it is hard to judge when he will have a shutout or be blown out.

Risk - Depends on the team. On most teams, or teams I'd say that Luongo has less risk. The team already knows what they are getting. A solid, veteran goalie who has been on the best at his position for the past decade. He will put up great regular season stats and at the very least will put your team into the playoff race. Schneider, on the other hand, has a lot more risk. Will he be the goalie that he has been when he has to play 60+ games a season as a starter? It might look like it, but there is also the risk his game degrades (ala Steve Mason).

What you give/what you get - Acquiring Schneider will obviously require teams to give up more. However, I think that his increased potential, will help balance out the extra pieces teams will have to give up.

Contracts - The main argument I hear people talk about. On paper, Schneider has a 3 year deal, and Luongo has a 10 year deal. However, I think that in reality, Luongo's contract is a 7 year deal. He makes 1 million dollars in each other last three years, making the chance of him not playing in the final three years very high. A 7 year deal for a 33 year old goalie who has put up consistent stats in the regular season for the past decade is reasonable. Schneider's deal is reasonable for a young goalie who has potential to do well, but could also easy have a down season.

Considering all these factors (which are all partially related to each other) I would argue that although acquiring Schneider has more risk, his great potential will give teams more incentive to trade for him, possibly increasing the amount of teams getting into a bidding war for him.

Edited by monkeydluffy, 29 August 2012 - 06:22 PM.

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#87 Sensemaker

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:38 PM

Luongo for Lecavalier
6'4
208lbs
Center
Left Shot
Career Playoff Statistics
02/03 11gp 3-3-6
03/04 23gp 9-7-16 won stanley cup
05/06 5gp 1-3-4
06/07 6gp 5-2-7
10/11 18gp 6-13-19
He is exactly what this team needs.

Henrik, Kesler, Lecavalier, Malhotra, Lapierre not bad


I would trade Schneider for Lecavalier straight up.

Or with Ballard (cap) for an aditional piece.

Edited by Sensemaker, 29 August 2012 - 06:55 PM.

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#88 CanucksExpress2

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:05 PM

This year we will see if the league has figured out the Sedins or if they had a post-Stanley 'slump' last year. When Kes gets back we will see the beast he was a couple years ago or not? Will Booth be the force we thought? Will Garrison? Will Ballard? Can Tanev do what GMMG thinks he can? Who do we get for Luongo? Will any of the guys we signed for the fourth line job stay healthy enough to see if they are any good? What will Kassian do in year 2? Will Doan com here or not? Lots of questions which won't be answered for a long time yet.

And I'd rather have this team than any other in the West.
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WTF??????????????

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#89 KING ALBERTS

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:16 PM

R U KIDDING?

sedin sedin doan is a HUGE improvement!
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i fel off the banwagon and hit my hed on a rok


#90 shazzam

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

can't believe how some people have underrated Salo so much...

calling him old and slow.... bieksa is younger and faster doesn't mean he is better defensively
Salo is excellent positionally
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