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Warner Brothers to remove the Confederate flag from the General Lee


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#31 wtpasc

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:57 PM

The car or the actual General?

Cause I couldn't give a rat's ass about the actual General, Robert E. Lee. He was a racist who argued to deny black people the right to vote. He was a patronizing bigoted piece of $h!t.

.I guess they should remove the flag AND change the name of the car. That is, if they want to be consistent.
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#32 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:23 PM




I hate racism , but this is a bunch of crap .

if you have watched the show , black people are treated with respect and dignity , often the duke's are helping to fight intolerance .

and just to set the record straight , lincoln himself always maintained the war was about union , slavery was always a secondary issue to him .

my partner and i have the australian version of the dodge charger, it is the valiant charger .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 30 August 2012 - 03:26 PM.

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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
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Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
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#33 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

I took American history and was taught that he was one of the few southerners to be against slavery. Although he felt a sense of loyalty to his home state Virginia and that is why he answered the call of the Confederacy.

People like to boil down history to be simple but there is a lot of gray area. Lincoln was a very unpopular President while he was alive and many northerners were upset when he granted universal freedom to African Americans. I would like to see you provide some evidence to back up your claim that General Lee ever argued to deny black people the right to vote.


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".

it is quite evident to those that know their history ,that robert lee did choose to fight on the side of the confederacy because he felt he owed his loyalty to his state , virginia .
but as history has shown us , the most dangerous men are good men who fight for an evil cause ,and this is what lee did , in fact it was because he was such a good battlefield tactician that the war went for as long as it did , without a general of his calibre the south would have lost the war in a couple of years .
i think this backs up sharps assertion ,
After the war, as President of what is now Washington and Lee University, Lee supported President Andrew Johnson's program of Reconstruction and intersectional friendship, while opposing the Radical Republican proposals to give freed slaves the vote.wikipedia
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#34 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:14 PM

Lemme guess................Boss Hogg will be dressed in rainbow suit too


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This is the good , Jefferson davis hogg .
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#35 butters

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:08 PM

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".


Then what are you doing posting on a message board when there is genocide in Africa?
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#36 Tearloch7

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:24 PM

Then what are you doing posting on a message board when there is genocide in Africa?


He's trying to motivate you to get off yer butt and help the victims of the world .. he already does .. true story .. :)
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#37 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:44 PM

Then what are you doing posting on a message board when there is genocide in Africa?


And how do you know that he isn't already donating his time, efforts or $$$ to help make things better?

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 30 August 2012 - 05:45 PM.

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#38 Sharpshooter

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

"So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained."

General Robert E. Lee, May 1, 1870

I took American history and was taught that he was one of the few southerners to be against slavery. Although he felt a sense of loyalty to his home state Virginia and that is why he answered the call of the Confederacy.

People like to boil down history to be simple but there is a lot of gray area. Lincoln was a very unpopular President while he was alive and many northerners were upset when he granted universal freedom to African Americans. I would like to see you provide some evidence to back up your claim that General Lee ever argued to deny black people the right to vote.


Allow me to add to your historical knowledge then, as a fellow student of history:


In this en­light­ened age, there are few I be­lieve, but what will ac­knowl­edge, that slav­ery as an in­sti­tu­tion, is a moral & po­lit­i­cal evil in any Coun­try. It is use­less to ex­pa­ti­ate on its dis­ad­van­tages. I think it how­ev­er a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feel­ings are strong­ly en­list­ed in be­half of the lat­ter, my sym­pa­thies are more strong for the for­mer. The blacks are im­mea­sur­ably bet­ter off here than in Africa, moral­ly, so­cial­ly & phys­i­cal­ly. The painful dis­ci­pline they are un­der­go­ing, is nec­es­sary for their in­struc­tion as a race, & I hope will pre­pare & lead them to bet­ter things. How long their sub­ju­ga­tion may be nec­es­sary is known & or­dered by a wise Mer­ci­ful Prov­i­dence.

Robert E. Lee, let­ter to his wife on slav­ery (De­cem­ber 27, 1856)


"My own opinion is that, at this time, they [black Southerners] cannot vote intelligently, and that giving them the [vote] would lead to a great deal of demagogism, and lead to embarrassments in various ways."



“I have always observed that wherever you find the Negro, everything is going down around him, and wherever you find the white man, you see everything around him improving. — to fellow Virginian Col. Thomas H. Carter, June, 1865

“I think it would be better for Virginia if she could get rid of them. ... I think that everyone there would be willing to aid it.
— testifying on race and politics before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction in Washington, D.C., Feb. 17, 1866

http://richmond.indy...12541/index.php



And here are the thoughts of Lee's wife,


“We are all here dreadfully plundered by the lazy idle negroes who are lounging about the streets doing nothing but looking what they may plunder during the night. … When we get rid of the Freedman’s bureau & can take the law in our hands we may perhaps do better. If they would only take all their pets north it would be happy riddance to all. — from a letter to her friend Emily Mason, May 20, 1866

http://richmond.indy...12541/index.php



I'm not sure where in the U.S. you were educated, but I would like to suggest to you that your education was offered in a manner that would give you a mischaracterization of who Lee really was and what his thoughts really were.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 30 August 2012 - 05:52 PM.

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#39 hockeyfan87

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:58 PM

Well thanks for that. I guess I was mistaken.
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#40 TheNoelPatrol

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

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This is the good , Jefferson davis hogg .

That's actually his good twin brother, Abraham Lincoln Hogg (appeared in one episode only).
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QUOTE (diesel_3 @ Aug 28 2009, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well..any way you slice it....Mike Gillis just pimp-slapped the Western Conference.

#41 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJA9Opf0yh4&feature=player_detailpage


I hate racism , but this is a bunch of crap .

if you have watched the show , black people are treated with respect and dignity , often the duke's are helping to fight intolerance .

and just to set the record straight , lincoln himself always maintained the war was about union , slavery was always a secondary issue to him .

my partner and i have the australian version of the dodge charger, it is the valiant charger .


But do you have the last of the V-8 Interceptors? :)


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#42 Kamero89

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

Yes the characters were not racist, but the flag remains racist. If you actually did research on the American Civil War, you would know why it is a racist symbol.

Your sentiment towards it, is loved because of a fictional TV show, when in real life a ton of African Americans died for what that flag represented.

EVOLVE
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#43 DonLever

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

Yes the characters were not racist, but the flag remains racist. If you actually did research on the American Civil War, you would know why it is a racist symbol.

Your sentiment towards it, is loved because of a fictional TV show, when in real life a ton of African Americans died for what that flag represented.

EVOLVE


The flag of the represented the Confederation of the Southern States who supported the use of slaves. Northern States were mostly in favour of abolishment of slavery

Contrary to popular misconception, the Civil War was fought not over slavery but over the rights of Southern States to succeed from the Union. The issue of slavery was only one of the many issues involved in the war. One of Lincoln's main objective was to break the power of the South through the abolishment of slavery, which he did through the Emancipation Declaration.

Saying the flag was a symbol of racism is ridiculous because during the time period involved, the mid 1800's, EVERYONE was racist. The Blacks who lived in the north were not slaves but heavily discrimated against. They live in ghettos and did menial jobs. The white people in the North was just as racist as the people in the South. There were no inter-racial marriages in the North, no mixing of the races like today.

Having said that, Warner Brothers can do what they want as the US is a free country.

Edited by DonLever, 30 August 2012 - 11:26 PM.

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#44 Common sense

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:03 PM

Having said that, Warner Brothers can do what they want as the US is a free country.


Agreed; I'll just call them a bunch of PC pansies.
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#45 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:51 AM

This is absolute garbage, don't mess with an icon. Why now, after more than 30 years? Did some politically correct left-wing hippie just see the General Lee for the first time? Maybe they should have actually watched the show and seen how wholesome and unhateful it was.
http://screencrush.c...f-hazzard-flag/

History often gets disrespected and dragged through politically correct mud. General Lee was a good man, the popular view then was blacks were inferior, but he showed he could evolve his thinking. Morons often think his fighting was to protect slavery, when it was to defend his homeland, and back then the "states" were more along the lines of a homeland than the nation as a whole, especially for the original colonies. There's a large populace that would fight any invading force and prefer change to come from within. This doesn't bode as a popular way of thinking for those who believe their world view is the only one that should exist and attribute 21st century logic to 19th century mindset.

Extra irony comes from the lack of compassion in this case, yet compassion from these geniuses is coincidentally given to people like the late Democratic Senator Robert Byrd who was an outspoken member of the KKK and proudly said he'd never fight along side any blacks in the military, and likened black people to animals.

Edited by zaibatsu, 31 August 2012 - 12:51 AM.

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#46 Sharpshooter

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:03 AM

History often gets disrespected and dragged through politically correct mud. General Lee was a good man, the popular view then was blacks were inferior, but he showed he could evolve his thinking. Morons often think his fighting was to protect slavery, when it was to defend his homeland, and back then the "states" were more along the lines of a homeland than the nation as a whole, especially for the original colonies. There's a large populace that would fight any invading force and prefer change to come from within. This doesn't bode as a popular way of thinking for those who believe their world view is the only one that should exist and attribute 21st century logic to 19th century mindset.

Extra irony comes from the lack of compassion in this case, yet compassion from these geniuses is coincidentally given to people like the late Democratic Senator Robert Byrd who was an outspoken member of the KKK and proudly said he'd never fight along side any blacks in the military, and likened black people to animals.


Nope.

Morons often think that because one is forced to accept defeat and learn to survive among the conquerors, any lifestyle or ideology that was once fought for by that person and then refuted in some faux-epiphany does not make them a 'good' person or any less guilty for past moral crimes.
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#47 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:13 AM

Nope.

Morons often think that because one is forced to accept defeat and learn to survive among the conquerors, any lifestyle or ideology that was once fought for by that person and then refuted in some faux-epiphany does not make them a 'good' person or any less guilty for past moral crimes.

People who are lauded as heroes in US history like the first several Presidents had slaves of their own. Where's all this evil talk?

If they lived in the 21st century they'd be called militant terrorists for their parts in the uprising against the British.

It's impossible to believe you studied history so extensively when you have the clearly distinct inability to place yourself at that person's time when making judgements against them, which is, to say the least, a critical error.

Protecting one's home, or state, back then, was one of the founding reasons for the second amendment, because of the mistrust for intrusive government. I await NRA comparisons given you and your revised history soapbox.

Edited by zaibatsu, 31 August 2012 - 01:15 AM.

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#48 Sharpshooter

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:47 AM

People who are lauded as heroes in US history like the first several Presidents had slaves of their own. Where's all this evil talk?


There's no talk about them because this thread is about the confederate flag and General Robert E. Lee, despite your penchant for tangential conversations in almost any given thread.

If they lived in the 21st century they'd be called militant terrorists for their parts in the uprising against the British.


Probably...and most likely by right-wing transplanted tea-bagging Canadians of convenience . USA! USA! USA!...right?

It's impossible to believe you studied history so extensively when you have the clearly distinct inability to place yourself at that person's time when making judgements against them, which is, to say the least, a critical error.

Protecting one's home, or state, back then, was one of the founding reasons for the second amendment, because of the mistrust for intrusive government. I await NRA comparisons given you and your revised history soapbox.


I don't assume what Robert Lee thinks at that time or any time period, i leave that to the apparent clairvoyants and uber-talented psychics such as yourself. I let Robert Lee's own words do the talking for him on where he stood regarding his thoughts on the Africans when they were slaves and then as a freed African population of his time. 'Good' men don't try to argue to Congress in order to suppress someone's right to vote and people don't generally acknowledge that individual as 'good' if they knew that's what that person did....unless they're morons.
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#49 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:53 AM

But do you have the last of the V-8 Interceptors? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLCmcV4gC_0


Mate my grandfathers name on my mothers side was Joseph Henry Ford .
I have owned an xt gt falcon an xw gt falcon and an xy gt falcon . The HO versions of these cars were race cars , with the xy gt ho falcon being the fastest 4 door production car in the world in 1971 .
these cars were described in the press as bullets on wheels and politicians jumped on the bandwagon and they stopped selling them to the public .
the xa-xc body shape which was the basis for the car in mad max was not as asthetically pleasing to the eye as the xr -xy body imo,and from the factory were not as powerful as the xw gt ho, xw gt ho phase 2 and the xy gt ho phase 3.
they built 3 factory race team phase 4 s using the xa body shapes and these are harder to find than rockin horse sh!t.

The valiant charger is actually my partners car , she is a valiant/dodge loving girl .
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#50 Wolfman Jack

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 03:49 AM

Do people think they can change history by hiding elements they don't like? Like it or not the Confederate flag is a part of US history, the Confederate Flag represents the southern states, the Civil war was fought over many issues, slavery was only one of them and I think a big reason it became an issue was that abolishing it would devastate the South's economy and ability to fight a war.
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#51 Ovech Trick

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:07 AM

Good I'm tired of seeing that nasty ass flag.
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#52 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 04:39 AM

Do people think they can change history by hiding elements they don't like? Like it or not the Confederate flag is a part of US history, the Confederate Flag represents the southern states, the Civil war was fought over many issues, slavery was only one of them and I think a big reason it became an issue was that abolishing it would devastate the South's economy and ability to fight a war.

You can if you're a 21st century tree hugging pedantic pretend-history-major moonbat sophist with an overtly liberal nonsensical axe to grind about a guy from two centuries ago. :towel:

Edited by zaibatsu, 31 August 2012 - 04:41 AM.

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#53 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:04 AM

You can if you're a 21st century tree hugging pedantic pretend-history-major moonbat sophist with an overtly liberal nonsensical axe to grind about a guy from two centuries ago. :towel:


Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.
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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM




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