TOMapleLaughs Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Long-term, Sid and Malkin won't be on these type of polls. Neither will Lidstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaches Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Should Malkin be on the list? No Crosby- right now, maybe. Future, yes Lidstrom- yes, for sure I vote gretzky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucic17 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Mike Bossy BEST pure goal scorer of all time. NO one else, not even Gretzky had as many consecutive 50+ goal seasons as Bossy Why is Crosby on the list??? Crosby & Malkin SHOULD NOT be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bossy was a great sniper, for sure. But best ever player? Nope. Gretzky had more assists in one season than Bossy had points in his best season. It was those five 200+/- point seasons in the Great One heyday that really will never be touched. In my view, ownership of the record book = Best ever. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Bossy is more comparable to Bobby and Brett Hull, Selanne and Lafleur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 1. Orr's career was cut short, thus making his career overrated. Ie. We didn't witness his decline. Cut Gretzky's career in half and his status as best ever would be quite undebatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDave Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 You aren't old enough to have witness Orr at all, by the end his knees were so bad he cold barley walk and was stil the best player on the ice Henri Richard won 11 Cups, I guess he was 3 times as good as Gretzky Yes he was as dominant, there is more to the game than just points, Orr was also a physical presence, something Gretzky could never be. Orr was the only player who could sell out the Cow Palace in Oakland. Oakland and LA were the only teams in the US wwst of the Mississippi in his day. Very deniable, best scorer and best player are two different things, while Gretzky was lighting up the scoreboard (and having his own lit up just as often), most GM's would have taken Bryan Trottier in his prime over Gretzky. The ballooning equipment has nothing to do with Gretzky, that was caused by Brett Hull and the introduction of the synthetic Sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugemanskost Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It was those five 200+/- point seasons in the Great One heyday that really will never be touched. In my view, ownership of the record book = Best ever. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wizard of AZ Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 There were only 4 200+ point seasons, TOM. Gretzky was the best offensive player ever to play the game. No argument there. Best player overall? Not even close. Gretzky's defending was always questioned as a player throughout his career. Over his final 9 seasons, he was a -86. I know you think that +/- is a worthless stat, but, being only +514 in 20 seasons while scoring 2857 points is not stellar defensive hockey. Bobby Orr as a defenceman was +597 over only 657 games. 1.4 PPG as a defender put him 5th all-time. He hit. He fought. He played amazing offence and amazing defence (8 straight Norris Trophies). Lastly, HOF at 31. Youngest ever. End debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Orr, a dominant force at BOTH ends of the ice, wins the scoring title as a defense-man, won Norris, Art Ross, Hart, and Conn Smythe IN THE SAME SEASON. Revolutionized the game, before him defensemen rarely if ever carried the puck or joined the rush. EIGHT CONSECUTIVE Norrris Trophies. First and only defenceman to score nine hat tricksFirst defenceman to score 30 goals (1969–70) and 40 goals in a season (1974–75) in a season.First player to record 100 assists in a season (1970–71)Only defenceman to lead the league in scoring (1969–70, 1974–75)Only player ever to win the Norris Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, Hart Trophy, and Conn Smythe Trophy in one season (1969–70)Second all-time in career plus-minus rating (+597) (retired as the overall leader; never finished a full season less than +30 since +/- became a statistic beginning with the 1968–69 season)Fifth in league history in career point-per-game average, all-time, (1.393) (highest among defencemen)Fifty-ninth overall in league history in career assists and 90th in career points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 At the age of 30, Wayne Gretzky's points per game was a stunning 2.32. He had 925 games, 718 goals, 1424 assists, and 2142 points. That's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 A team of 6 Orrs would beat a team of 6 Gretskys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Sorry about the spelling mistake, I usually just call him The Whiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Nothing but side-stepping. (And non-reading. Jesus, +/- /= +, da) But ownership of the record books, a much longer career and being the only number retired league-wide is easily enough to make Gretzky better than Orr. Gretzky's accomplishments are so underrated lately, it's shocking. But then again, this debate appears every month on different hockey boards and every month it's the same ol' crap. 'Wuz Gretzky really that good?' Yes. But in the end it's bias. People like to cheer for their heroes. (The real best player ever was actually Herb Carnegie.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Malkin has won more hardware than Crosby, including the Conn Smythe trophy which Crosby hasn't won. If Malkin should not be on that list Crosby definitely should not be on that list. Side note Ovechkin is the only player other than Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Kurri, to score 300 goas and 300 Assists in his first 6 seasons. Ovechkin is the only player in the history of NHL to do this while not playing hockey in the 1980's. In the end I don't think you can name one guy, there are so many things a certain player does that others don't. OV hits like a truck, and scores like Bossy. Gretzky never threw a hit in his life but he scored more Assists then anyone scored points. BTW, Messier has to be mentioned and I'm glad to see he's on the list. I know this is CDC and all but 6 Cups, 2nd all time in scoring, a beast on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnieds Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 No love for Martin Brodeur? Most wins, most shut outs, 3 Stanley Cups, Vezina Trophies, Jennings Trophies, most games played by a goalie and numerous other NHL goalie records. If this list has the likes of Crosby, Malkin and Messier, then Broduer should be there or does goalies not count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 No love for Martin Brodeur? Most wins, most shut outs, 3 Stanley Cups, Vezina Trophies, Jennings Trophies, most games played by a goalie and numerous other NHL goalie records. If this list has the likes of Crosby, Malkin and Messier, then Broduer should be there or does goalies not count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullMetalOilDrum Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I don't like sounding like a homer but is this really a question? It has to be Gretzky. One does not simply get over 2000 points in an NHL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassian Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I don't like sounding like a homer but is this really a question? It has to be Gretzky. One does not simply get over 2000 points in an NHL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucic17 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Bossy was a great sniper, for sure. But best ever player? Nope. Gretzky had more assists in one season than Bossy had points in his best season. It was those five 200+/- point seasons in the Great One heyday that really will never be touched. In my view, ownership of the record book = Best ever. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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