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Mason Raymond's Upside


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#31 Argon

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:53 PM

No not the best move at all. He did get back in time I'll give you that, but the outcome of the play lies on his shoulders.

not really, he completely missed the hit he threw
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#32 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:05 PM

For years I have tried to keep my mouth shut about Raymond and hoped he would develop into a solid player, but I just don't think he has it in him to be that player to get to that next level. Of course the back injury set him back, and I wasn't expecting to much from the guy in the first month or so coming back from an injury like that. Although I did expect to see some improvement as the season went on, and I honestly didn't see any of that out of him. I think what also pissed me off the most is when he did come back in his first and 2nd games, he played extremely well, had so much jump was fighting for the puck, he didn't look like he had missed a step. Obviously a lot of it had to do with nerves and being away from the game for that long. and then being able to step on the ice in a game and play again is exciting, and we saw his speed and jump in those couple of games. Then all of a sudden it was like he got comfortable again with the team, and just decided to step back and just enjoy his role on the team and didn't feel like he was fighting for anything. Or did he show that excitement and jump like he showed in his first couple games back, and that's what pisses me off because you can see the talent he does have when he decides to use it, but he chooses to not come to play to his best game in and game out, and just looks like crap more than half the time on the ice.

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#33 Pineapples

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:07 PM

Since we just signed him, I don't see him going anywhere until at least the trade deadline. He certainly won't be packaged with Lu.

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#34 rawkdrummer

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:24 PM

Raymond isn't top six and I'd much rather have Hansen and Higgins winging it on 3rd line.

Now can you say circle the offensive zone till you fall down, I thought you could.

#35 Linden Legend

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:40 PM

Since we just signed him, I don't see him going anywhere until at least the trade deadline. He certainly won't be packaged with Lu.


I disagree. I think the whole reason that we took him to arbitration this offseason was to lower his salary, thus making him more attractive in a trade. Not sure who the hell would want him, but I am hoping someone will take the bait and take him off our hands. I would literally take ANYTHING in return for him, including one roll of hockey tape and a coupon to Cyclone Taylor's. Maybe thats a pipedream return for him. MG- please get rid of this plug.
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#36 Pineapples

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:58 PM

I disagree. I think the whole reason that we took him to arbitration this offseason was to lower his salary, thus making him more attractive in a trade. Not sure who the hell would want him, but I am hoping someone will take the bait and take him off our hands. I would literally take ANYTHING in return for him, including one roll of hockey tape and a coupon to Cyclone Taylor's. Maybe thats a pipedream return for him. MG- please get rid of this plug.


I suppose that could be what they are doing. But I still see them giving Raymond another chance first... then of course trading him if he fails.

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#37 keslerian one

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:14 AM

Value of Raymond on the Canucks. Let's think this through.

When given the opportunity as a young player, he potted 25 goals and 50+ points. Impressive.
He showcased incredible speed to create space for himself and other players. He was defensively sound. He formed chemistry with Kesler which wasn't the easiest thing to do (still isn't if you think about the rotating wingers on the 2nd line).

With added attention to his game from the opposing side, he struggled to replicate his impressive break out season.

Injuries - broken fingers, hand problems, and finally broken back, really deterred his growth.

Without having a season to develop and improve on his game, he focused on rehabbing from a very serious injury.

He was given a defensive role. He backchecks hard (yes, we are all aware of the defensive gaffe he made against the kings). His speed is useful in special teams - AV uses him quite effectively on 4 on 3 especially. He is a good PK person.

Will we see him as a 50 point player again? Largely dependent on the type of minutes he's given and the improvements he makes in the offseason, but it's safe to say - unlikely.

At tad over 2M, is it worth having a guy who can be reliable defensively, good PKer and has room for improvement? Probably.

The only knock against him is that our roster is pretty loaded. If Raymond is losing his spot to the likes of Kassian, Booth, Burrows, (possibly Doan), Jensen in the future in the top 6, and HIggins, Kassian, Hansen, Pinizzotto, Weise, Volpatti etc in the bottom 6, he doesn't really belong.

His biggest contribution to this team in the last 2 years has been being the best friend with Garrison and helping the organization bring Garrison in for discount.

With all that said, and being mindful of the type of injury plagued season that the Canucks usually have had historically, I think Raymond will bring more value to the team than most people here think. If he can play good defensive minutes while scoring 40 points, yes 2M per season would be worth it. (We pay Malhotra a lot of money to TAKE FACEOFFS).

More intriguing point - if the NHL really goes through with the proposed rule change and we adopt prolonged 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 to decide games in overtime, Raymond will be a great asset to this team - mark my words.

#38 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:41 AM

Value of Raymond on the Canucks. Let's think this through.

When given the opportunity as a young player, he potted 25 goals and 50+ points. Impressive.
He showcased incredible speed to create space for himself and other players. He was defensively sound. He formed chemistry with Kesler which wasn't the easiest thing to do (still isn't if you think about the rotating wingers on the 2nd line).

With added attention to his game from the opposing side, he struggled to replicate his impressive break out season.

Injuries - broken fingers, hand problems, and finally broken back, really deterred his growth.

Without having a season to develop and improve on his game, he focused on rehabbing from a very serious injury.

He was given a defensive role. He backchecks hard (yes, we are all aware of the defensive gaffe he made against the kings). His speed is useful in special teams - AV uses him quite effectively on 4 on 3 especially. He is a good PK person.

Will we see him as a 50 point player again? Largely dependent on the type of minutes he's given and the improvements he makes in the offseason, but it's safe to say - unlikely.

At tad over 2M, is it worth having a guy who can be reliable defensively, good PKer and has room for improvement? Probably.

The only knock against him is that our roster is pretty loaded. If Raymond is losing his spot to the likes of Kassian, Booth, Burrows, (possibly Doan), Jensen in the future in the top 6, and HIggins, Kassian, Hansen, Pinizzotto, Weise, Volpatti etc in the bottom 6, he doesn't really belong.

His biggest contribution to this team in the last 2 years has been being the best friend with Garrison and helping the organization bring Garrison in for discount.

With all that said, and being mindful of the type of injury plagued season that the Canucks usually have had historically, I think Raymond will bring more value to the team than most people here think. If he can play good defensive minutes while scoring 40 points, yes 2M per season would be worth it. (We pay Malhotra a lot of money to TAKE FACEOFFS).

More intriguing point - if the NHL really goes through with the proposed rule change and we adopt prolonged 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 to decide games in overtime, Raymond will be a great asset to this team - mark my words.


You fail to mention his lack of heart, which I think most Canucks fans have the biggest issue with. Games when he shows up, yes he back checks hard and has a great work ethic. There are games though when he completely disappears, games when he gets demoted from the 2nd to the 4th line on a shift to shift basis. He's got the tools, no one doubts that - he doesn't have the heart or the physicality to be regarded as a good hockey player.

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#39 SamJamIam

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:33 AM

I give this post 2 thumbs aladeen.


For this post I wish that all your family end up being HIV aladeen.

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#40 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:13 AM

He should be kept on the 3rd line unless he starts scoring consistently again. I'm sick of him being given top six minutes he hasn't earned.


Yeh, you mean like the rest of the 2nd line...............oh wait.
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#41 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:17 AM

Raymond's best asset is his puck possession and ability to transition the puck from defense to offense. Alot of times he looks clumsy and a little weak, but he's very effective at keeping the puck in the offensive end. This is better than having to play in the defensive end. With a full off season of training, he ll be a 40 pt wingers on the thirdline/second line.


Don't baffle the nomarks on here with anything related to ACTUAL hockey sense...............they go into meltdown and refuse to get up for school in the morning.
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#42 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

Raymond @ $2.2M for 1 year >>>>> Booth @ $4.25 M for the next 3 years.

Watch and see.


Right on brother!

I understand Booth is attending classes with Gary Roberts confined solely to how to pass the puck to an open team mate.
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#43 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:28 AM

What??? My God and saviour Cory Schneider didn't save that!!!??? Was that Tanev? Kassian? OMG TRADeZe


It's a pity that Mason Raymond who showed pretty decent form in the playoffs made that one mistake while most of the rest of the team, including Bieksa, Bitz, Edler, Hamhuis, Booth, Kesler, Higgins etc were all bricking it most nights.
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#44 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:31 AM

Value of Raymond on the Canucks. Let's think this through.

When given the opportunity as a young player, he potted 25 goals and 50+ points. Impressive.
He showcased incredible speed to create space for himself and other players. He was defensively sound. He formed chemistry with Kesler which wasn't the easiest thing to do (still isn't if you think about the rotating wingers on the 2nd line).

With added attention to his game from the opposing side, he struggled to replicate his impressive break out season.

Injuries - broken fingers, hand problems, and finally broken back, really deterred his growth.

Without having a season to develop and improve on his game, he focused on rehabbing from a very serious injury.

He was given a defensive role. He backchecks hard (yes, we are all aware of the defensive gaffe he made against the kings). His speed is useful in special teams - AV uses him quite effectively on 4 on 3 especially. He is a good PK person.

Will we see him as a 50 point player again? Largely dependent on the type of minutes he's given and the improvements he makes in the offseason, but it's safe to say - unlikely.

At tad over 2M, is it worth having a guy who can be reliable defensively, good PKer and has room for improvement? Probably.

The only knock against him is that our roster is pretty loaded. If Raymond is losing his spot to the likes of Kassian, Booth, Burrows, (possibly Doan), Jensen in the future in the top 6, and HIggins, Kassian, Hansen, Pinizzotto, Weise, Volpatti etc in the bottom 6, he doesn't really belong.

His biggest contribution to this team in the last 2 years has been being the best friend with Garrison and helping the organization bring Garrison in for discount.

With all that said, and being mindful of the type of injury plagued season that the Canucks usually have had historically, I think Raymond will bring more value to the team than most people here think. If he can play good defensive minutes while scoring 40 points, yes 2M per season would be worth it. (We pay Malhotra a lot of money to TAKE FACEOFFS).

More intriguing point - if the NHL really goes through with the proposed rule change and we adopt prolonged 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 to decide games in overtime, Raymond will be a great asset to this team - mark my words.


Balanced review.............you don't belong here amongst the munchkins.
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#45 hockeywoot

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:33 AM

Balanced review.............you don't belong here amongst the munchkins.


Agreed.

While I'm not sure if he is a good fit here long-term, I think many here underrate him.
That 50pt season, he looked like he could have scored many more.

Part of his drop of in production is due to reduced PP TOI.
When healthy, producing in the 40-50pt range is hardly a reach.

As is, he's not the best fit here. Not talented enough for top-6, not gritty enough for bottom 6.

While he's passable defensively, I wish he could improve that aspect of his game, as a checking winger.
His speed gives teams problems, has them on their heels.

I'd give him a shot this year. Last year was a wash, seeing as he was coming off a pretty severe injury.
If we expect Kesler to bounceback, its not entirely unreasonable for Raymond to either.

I think it would be stupid to dump him for nothing.

#46 BlurTriX

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:53 AM

Imagine him and Scott Hartnell on a line together...

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#47 King of the ES

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

Ive said it for several seasons now, He's got to move on. Likeable guy and all, nothing against him whatsoever, he just doesnt have a spot on this team anymore.. he certainly doesnt deserve any more time on the second line and I dont wish to see him on the third or fourth either.


Actually, he does. Who's beating him out? Chris Higgins? Fat chance. Nick Jensen? Highly unlikely.

Unless a guy like Doan arrives, Raymond's on our top-six, easily.

#48 nuck nit

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:20 AM

So,the Sedins do all the heavy lifting waiting for Kes to hopefully regain his prior form or some other player to carry the team offensively.

May Ray is not going to carry the second line.

At this point in time we all start hoping that either goalie is traded for second line help.

#49 debluvscanucks

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:32 AM

Must be a great minds thing....

http://forum.canucks...onds-down-side/

:)

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