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Poor 11-12 season was because of the lack of chemistry?


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#31 VanCityScout

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:49 PM

hungry for the cup just doesn't fade away!! :towel:
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#32 VanCityScout

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:00 PM

Samuel Pahlsson...why are the Canucks hanging him out to dry..?


maybe waiting for his stock to hit rock boomer..so they can slowly bring it up again

Pahlsson and the Sedins are worth a $2 Mill experiment..I mean Hometown Burrows could not argue with that..

after all..

he's the wonderwall $2 Mill experiment as I type...


he would love a second top line ...get a day off once and a while!!


Pahlsson for 2 Million


any body have a problem with that?
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#33 Pears

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:01 PM

Samuel Pahlsson...why are the Canucks hanging him out to dry..?


maybe waiting for his stock to hit rock boomer..so they can slowly bring it up again

Pahlsson and the Sedins are worth a $2 Mill experiment..I mean Hometown Burrows could not argue with that..

after all..

he's the wonderwall $2 Mill experiment as I type...


he would love a second top line ...get a day off once and a while!!


Pahlsson for 2 Million


any body have a problem with that?

He plays for MoDo.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#34 Nancouver

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:07 PM

Samuel Pahlsson...why are the Canucks hanging him out to dry..?


maybe waiting for his stock to hit rock boomer..so they can slowly bring it up again

Pahlsson and the Sedins are worth a $2 Mill experiment..I mean Hometown Burrows could not argue with that..

after all..

he's the wonderwall $2 Mill experiment as I type...


he would love a second top line ...get a day off once and a while!!


Pahlsson for 2 Million


any body have a problem with that?

Are you drunk? I don't even.....
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#35 winacup

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:13 PM

team is built around a soft euro core. no cup for us until that changes.
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#36 Pears

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:21 PM

team is built around a soft euro core. no cup for us until that changes.

Detroit says hiiiiiiiiiiiii
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#37 chrisbanks

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:35 PM

Daniel was injured, and we ran into one of (if not the) hottest team in recent memory.

the LA kings got hot by beating us their last 8 games they lost to boston and then lost to vancouver beat the crappy flames and oilers then lost to the even worse wild then beat edmonton again beat san jose in OT and then lost to SJ in OT how is that HOT? 4-2-2 with a win over Calgary Edmonton twice and SJ in OT .
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#38 winacup

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:39 PM

Detroit says hiiiiiiiiiiiii


wings euros were never soft.
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#39 Pears

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:42 PM

wings euros were never soft.

Still saying the Sedins are soft :picard: Edler is not soft by any means either, and don't bother using this years playoffs as an argument. I suggest you watch Henrik's play in the 5 games the Canucks played this post season, then reconsider your thoughts.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#40 winacup

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:47 PM

Exhibit A:

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#41 sniper_1

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:10 PM

Actually the Canucks were one of the hottest teams going into the playoffs. Canucks went 8-1 down the stretch in their last 9 games.


Most of those wins were due to excellent goaltending from Lu and Schneids I think.
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#42 sniper_1

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:18 PM

A president's trophy winning season would be a pretty good season by any other teams standards, but not for the Canucks. Going from 15 wins in the playoffs down to 1 the following year, would be described as a failure. But how did it go this wrong? Somewhere down the stretch the Canucks lost there mojo, and I believed those points were: Win in Boston (I think Kesler was injured around this time too?) and the Trade Deadline. So clearly the Canucks weren't the hottest team going into the playoffs.

The Canucks skill is good enough to win 1st in the league (we can all agree surely) but i think the difference between the 10-11 season and 11-12 season was the lack of chemistry. No all you guys are probably thinking "Chemistry!? That was surely not the reason!" But the more I think about it could have been.

Lets look at the key moves for the Canucks at the beginning of the 2010-11 season

IN:
Ballard
Hamhuis
Malhotra
Torres

OUT:
O'Brien
Steve Bernier (can't think of anyone else)

Now players have the oppurtunity to get know each other before the beginning of the year and have the pre-season to work on chemistry. Mid-season not so easy

Moves during trade deadline 2010-11 season

IN:
Lapierre
Higgins

OUT:
(no one key)

So chemistry wasn't the issue as players were only added. Sure there were injuries (only major ones i can think of were Salo and Malhotra) but we had the right players to step into that role during the year.

Different story for 2011-12

Moves at the beginning of the year for 2011-12

IN:
Sturm (does he even count?)
Hodgson (i know he wasnt an aquisition but he was new on the team)

OUT:
Ehrhoff
Torres
Glass

So Kesler was injured and Hodgeson was in spot which worked fine but then a major trade happened

Booth was in and Samuelson and Sturm was out. Booth I was on a very different team in FLA so it took some getting used to in VAN.

Kesler would comeback and the centres would be pushed down one line. This was different style the Canucks were playing compared to last season. 3rd line went from being checkin/physical to more offensive.

But the Canucks would adapt to this style and would go on a tear until around late January. Kesler wasn't playing 100% but the Canucks would manage.

But then came the Trade Deadline. This really disrupted the Canucks chemistry. Mike Gillis managed to get key players at this time last year without giving up to much but this time he gave one player that changed the Canucks style

IN:
Kassian
Gragnani
Pahlson (sp?)

OUT:
Hodgson

This disrupted the Canucks style as they went from and offensive 3rd line which worked to a more defensive 3rd line with the addition of Pahlson, and Kassian was for a physical presence. And then later in the year Daniel was injured which really sunk the Canucks, and kinda put them behind the offensive 8 ball heading into the playoffs.

So this off season for Garrison, Booth and Kassian, they will have the chance to get to know each other and get to know each other better. They will also have pre-season (hopefully) to gel. And if know major moves including taking out a piece which worked well, and a change in style, the Canucks can get back to being as dominant as they were in 2011.



I did feel at times Burrows and the Sedins were kinda out of sync. I don't know if it's due to losing some chemistry or teams picking up on their tendency's. But for the team as a whole, not sure if I buy into that. I'm leaning more to the Stanley cup hang-over theory. It was a long SCF for the canucks.
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#43 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:23 PM

MG could have pbbly landed Carter for Schneider. If possible he should have done it. Sometimes you just have to go for it and make a bold move.

Carter on the Canucks instead of on the Kings would have significantly increased the chances of turning the series in our favour.


This......
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#44 Riviera82

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:21 PM

MG could have pbbly landed Carter for Schneider. If possible he should have done it. Sometimes you just have to go for it and make a bold move.

Carter on the Canucks instead of on the Kings would have significantly increased the chances of turning the series in our favour.


Or...Dont trade Schneider and have him start the first two games. The way he was playing we would win those first two at home and then who knows? That is the bold move I was hoping for, happened too late though.
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#45 keslerian one

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

One name: Jeff Carter.

He gave them the extra offensive boost they needed. Without him, the Kings probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs. With the addition of Carter, they went from the NHL basement in goals for to top three in goals for.


Jeff Carter hasn't really impacted Kings in any meaningful way whatsoever. At least from the playoff games, and espeically against the Canucks, Carter didn't matter too much.

It was Kopitar, Dustin Brown, Justin Williams, Drew Doughty, stifling defense a la Sutter and most importantly Quick that turned out to be the difference.
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#46 brewdog

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:55 AM

Aside from a couple injuries (not an excuse) and the headache of line shuffling, I don't think there's much they could have done to change the outcome. LA bloody well conquered their way through the Playoffs. I haven't seen that level of domination since the 1988 Playoffs. In fact, I think the '12 Kings would have beaten the '11 Bruins in 5 games.
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#47 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:25 AM

team is built around a soft euro core. no cup for us until that changes.


Game seven says hi.
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#48 Baggins

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:59 AM

Poor 11/12 season? You get the Presidents Cup for having a poor season????
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#49 hockeywoot

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:16 AM

Poor 11/12 season? You get the Presidents Cup for having a poor season????


No. But we didn't really achieve as well as expected. (and I'm not even one of those "cup or bust" crybabies)

a few things:

our defence is overrated. Our excellent goalies mask our deficiencies.
We have have one rock on defence. Dan Hamhuis (even he made an uncharacteristic number of blunders). Maybe Chris Tanev.
Everyone else is kinda shaky defensively speaking.

Collectively we're damned good at moving the puck from our backend.
But a bit sketch in our own end.

We need Edler to be our most dependable defender, but he's not close to being there yet.


Offensively, we rely on the Sedins far too much for offensive production.
Its understandable, as we're not particularly talented outside of the Sedins and Kes.

They carry a significant portion of offensive starts. Bottom 6, take defensive starts.
If either breakdown, that causes problems.

Not having Daniel didn't help either.

LA was a stacked team that underperformed all year.

Not much to assess really
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#50 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 06:30 AM

I think Ninja is on to one key factor, drive?

Two others;

1) The demise of our physical game, primarily over the loss of Torres and the diminished capacity of Malhotra. I'll get spammed for this, but we also lost speed from Tambelini and speed and size with Oreskovich. You can argue Higgins is better than Torres and you would be right, but it does not mean we miss and did not replace what Torres offered. And our physical game was already not matching requirements against Boston. Add the fact our best physical talent, Kesler, was injured most of the year and there was an awful lot wrong with our physical game. Him coming back strong might be more important than all the rest?
2) The loss of Erhoff. We did not miss him at the offensive end, Edler replaced him fine there. Erhoff was another weapon to make our transition game start by dynamic passing coming from our end. Plus he also had an ability to carry it up ice, often against pressure, when the pass was not available. This second skill has not been replaced and is sorely missed.

Take away the ability to transition from our end, and then add offering an easier time hemming us in cuz we're less physical and its easy to see a less dynamic team; perhaps even one that appeared less driven?


I think it was our lack of drive. I felt like we didn't play with the same passion we did the previous year.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 04 September 2012 - 06:36 AM.

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#51 kmotamed

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

Mojo = D. Sedin
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#52 Boudrias

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

Puck possession went way down late in the season and our goaltending had to bail us out.

Fatigue. Realizing that another lengthly cup run is highly improbable. Meh.

When we won the President's i was like, now there's our consolation prize. Yay! With Daniel down we weren't goin' nowhere.

I agree with the puck possession concern. Yes, LA were big with a strong forecheck and their goalie played lights out. I think Van's puck possession game during playoffs is still a questionable winning strategy against CUP quality d-cores. Detroit won playing that game but I would argue that those teams were much more physical than Van has ever been. I watched games where Detroit finished absolutely every check. It made no dif who the player was. Although the Canucks had some decent 'shutdown' games during the regular season I was never comfortable in their ability to 'fall back' and defend a lead. Pointing the finger at the d-core is a tough case as both offence and defence feed off one another. This is especially true when your transition game is genenerated from puck possession.
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#53 winacup

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:51 AM

Game seven says hi.


and so do all the bruins who skated around our rink with the cup.
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#54 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

Having ehrhoff drove up the SEdins stats.

Having Samuelson drove up Keslers stats.

We lost both Ehrhoff and Samuelson which effected Keslers and Sedins Stats. Samuelson was Keslers main line mate in 2011, as Ehrhoff was our minute man defencemen that created a lot of offence. We do have Edler but offensively he is not nearly as fast and as offensive as Ehrhoff. Wasn't lack of Chemistry. I think, Mike Gillis was fully aware that the loss of Ehrhoff will be a huge hit against the teams overall offence, but the money he was asking for was way too much. Samuelson just struggled in 2011, and was "ok" during the Panthers playoffs.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#55 Dogbyte

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:43 AM

One name: Jeff Carter.

He gave them the extra offensive boost they needed. Without him, the Kings probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs. With the addition of Carter, they went from the NHL basement in goals for to top three in goals for.

That's what adding skill does to your top 6. It makes them good. Hopefully MG can address this.
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#56 NuckFanLivingInCalgary:(

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:46 AM

I agree with the puck possession concern. Yes, LA were big with a strong forecheck and their goalie played lights out. I think Van's puck possession game during playoffs is still a questionable winning strategy against CUP quality d-cores. Detroit won playing that game but I would argue that those teams were much more physical than Van has ever been. I watched games where Detroit finished absolutely every check. It made no dif who the player was. Although the Canucks had some decent 'shutdown' games during the regular season I was never comfortable in their ability to 'fall back' and defend a lead. Pointing the finger at the d-core is a tough case as both offence and defence feed off one another. This is especially true when your transition game is genenerated from puck possession.


I felt the same way.
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Go Canucks Go!!!

#57 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:48 AM

A president's trophy winning season would be a pretty good season by any other teams standards, but not for the Canucks. Going from 15 wins in the playoffs down to 1 the following year, would be described as a failure. But how did it go this wrong? Somewhere down the stretch the Canucks lost there mojo, and I believed those points were: Win in Boston (I think Kesler was injured around this time too?) and the Trade Deadline. So clearly the Canucks weren't the hottest team going into the playoffs.

The Canucks skill is good enough to win 1st in the league (we can all agree surely) but i think the difference between the 10-11 season and 11-12 season was the lack of chemistry. No all you guys are probably thinking "Chemistry!? That was surely not the reason!" But the more I think about it could have been.

Lets look at the key moves for the Canucks at the beginning of the 2010-11 season

IN:
Ballard
Hamhuis
Malhotra
Torres

OUT:
O'Brien
Steve Bernier (can't think of anyone else)

Now players have the oppurtunity to get know each other before the beginning of the year and have the pre-season to work on chemistry. Mid-season not so easy

Moves during trade deadline 2010-11 season

IN:
Lapierre
Higgins

OUT:
(no one key)

So chemistry wasn't the issue as players were only added. Sure there were injuries (only major ones i can think of were Salo and Malhotra) but we had the right players to step into that role during the year.

Different story for 2011-12

Moves at the beginning of the year for 2011-12

IN:
Sturm (does he even count?)
Hodgson (i know he wasnt an aquisition but he was new on the team)

OUT:
Ehrhoff
Torres
Glass

So Kesler was injured and Hodgeson was in spot which worked fine but then a major trade happened

Booth was in and Samuelson and Sturm was out. Booth I was on a very different team in FLA so it took some getting used to in VAN.

Kesler would comeback and the centres would be pushed down one line. This was different style the Canucks were playing compared to last season. 3rd line went from being checkin/physical to more offensive.

But the Canucks would adapt to this style and would go on a tear until around late January. Kesler wasn't playing 100% but the Canucks would manage.

But then came the Trade Deadline. This really disrupted the Canucks chemistry. Mike Gillis managed to get key players at this time last year without giving up to much but this time he gave one player that changed the Canucks style

IN:
Kassian
Gragnani
Pahlson (sp?)

OUT:
Hodgson

This disrupted the Canucks style as they went from and offensive 3rd line which worked to a more defensive 3rd line with the addition of Pahlson, and Kassian was for a physical presence. And then later in the year Daniel was injured which really sunk the Canucks, and kinda put them behind the offensive 8 ball heading into the playoffs.

So this off season for Garrison, Booth and Kassian, they will have the chance to get to know each other and get to know each other better. They will also have pre-season (hopefully) to gel. And if know major moves including taking out a piece which worked well, and a change in style, the Canucks can get back to being as dominant as they were in 2011.


You missed two key points, for whatever reason Kess responded to Raymond and Sammy and they responded to him. It was bad luck losing MR to such a debilitating injury but gross folly to shove Sammy out for Booth.

Sure, we got points from the 2nd...........but it sucked as a line, no matter who was on it with Kess...........and of course Kess himself struggled with an injury, as did Booth to be fair to him.

I think we have an outstanding pair of wingers ..................IF!.........................Raymond comes back fit (and would it be too much to ask for .........heavier) and Booth just learns to pass the damn puck and do it early in the move, so that the D doesn't get a bead on him.

The trouble is, if as I suspect, we play a rookie (Schroeder) at centre Booth will hog the puck even more. I hope not but time will tell.
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#58 Dogbyte

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

Exhibit A:

Posted Image

God you people are dumb. Talking a little glove hand to the face in playoff hockey happens all the time. All the great players have done it from Sakic to Gretzky. Give me a break already you nicompoops.
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#59 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

Jeff Carter hasn't really impacted Kings in any meaningful way whatsoever. At least from the playoff games, and espeically against the Canucks, Carter didn't matter too much.

It was Kopitar, Dustin Brown, Justin Williams, Drew Doughty, stifling defense a la Sutter and most importantly Quick that turned out to be the difference.


I completely disagree with your assertion that Carter added nothing to the Kings. Having a second line that was an actual scoring threat allowed Kopitar, Williams, and Brown to do their thing. Teams were forced to pay attention to Richards and Carter as well defensively.

Contrast that to the Canucks. LA focused on stifling the Sedins and there was no one else to pick up the offensive slack. The skills Jeff Carter brought would have been a massive upgrade to the Canucks top 6 and moves like that are going to be necessary to shake the complacency of this core group.
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#60 Bodee

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

We ran into a hot team with a hot goalie. We played great but Kings played better. Ya the Kassian trade did work out that well but that shouldn't be the reason why we didn't get pass the first round. Daniel's injury is one of the main reason but there are other factors as well. Either way it was a disappointing season.


We didn't play great.

The first one and a half games were a crash site. We totally sleep walked into the first game. We were arrogant, we had won the PT playing patchy at best and thought because of the LA league performance, all we had to do was show up and LA would crumble...............After all we had the first two games at home, we were PT winners and previous finalists, there was no way we could lose to these LA chumps................right?

I predicted in the "Vancouver deserves better" thread that we would NOT just be able to raise our game when we felt like it...............and guess what? We didn't. We had crucial injuries but dare I say even allowing for that we got our tactics against this team all wrong and seemed unable to yet again impress our game on the opposition (just like Boston)
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