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Sharpshooter

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I've said it before there are a lot of evidences used from science, philosophy, and history and I mentioned some resources which everyone here can go check out at their own leisure and then one can separate out for themselves what they think is good and bad. If you seriously think EVERYONE who believes does so based on blind faith I think that's just as bad as theists who believe all atheists disbelieve because they don't want there to be a god with no intellectual reasons behind it.

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I've said it before there are a lot of evidences used from science, philosophy, and history and I mentioned some resources which everyone here can go check out at their own leisure and then one can separate out for themselves what they think is good and bad. If you seriously think EVERYONE who believes does so based on blind faith I think that's just as bad as theists who believe all atheists disbelieve because they don't want there to be a god with no intellectual reasons behind it.

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I've said it before there are a lot of evidences used from science, philosophy, and history and I mentioned some resources which everyone here can go check out at their own leisure and then one can separate out for themselves what they think is good and bad. If you seriously think EVERYONE who believes does so based on blind faith I think that's just as bad as theists who believe all atheists disbelieve because they don't want there to be a god with no intellectual reasons behind it.

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I have accessed most of the information you have provided links to , and this information does not provide proof of a gods existence .

wether you want to admit it or not you have faith that a god exists, and the word faith in the context we are using it means , Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material.

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In some ways i have nearly as much contempt for guys like hitchens and dawkins as i do for the religious nutbags , there is no evidence either way so they BELIEVE that there is not a god they cannot prove there is not a god , in a sense they are as fanatical as the people they are arguing with.

as science teaches us if we cannot prove something then it is best to keep an OPEN mind .

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Like what evidences?

If you seriously believe that at the crux of all belief in god can't be boiled down to blind faith, then you're only kidding yourself.

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Of course the major component for believing in God is faith since by his nature he cannot be proven by our current science methods this does not mean there is no evidence to warrant, for some people at least, that stepping out in faith.

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I wish more theists used Lennox's definition of faith:

"Faith is not a leap in the dark; it’s the exact opposite. It’s a commitment based on evidence… It is irrational to reduce all faith to blind faith and then subject it to ridicule. That provides a very anti-intellectual and convenient way of avoiding intelligent discussion.”

- John Lennox

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Ok, and which evidence warrants this extraordinary belief?

Would you agree that an extraordinary claim requires, at the minimum, extraordinary evidence?

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Really you read all the arguments put forth by the theist thinkers I listed? That's impressive :P. Even if you did read it all and came to the conclusion that either the evidence is insufficient for your skeptical mind or that some of it is poor evidence in your opinion, you would still concede that there IS some evidence and not every theist believes based on blind faith without any logical evidence.

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There are several reasons why agnosticism does not fit the bill as a healthy or rational middle ground between atheism and theism. For starters it is a claim to knowledge that you do not have, namely that the existence or non-existence of God are equal propositions. Equal in the sense that some agnostics believe that evidence could be just around the corner that proves the case for or against God, while others believe that evidence of either is fundamentally impossible and therefore nothing for certain can be said on the subject, which is of course a contradiction because to say nothing for certain can be said on the subject is to say something is for certain on the subject.

If you are of the mind that there is no proof either way you then you are of course overlooking the fact that athiests routinely construct proofs showing how the existence of god is logically impossible. You might want to say that this does not preclude the possibility of some higher reality, or alternate dimension where a logically impossible being could exist, but if this were the case would you be equally as adamant that invisible unicorn atheists, and zues atheists are as just as contemptable and closed-minded as believers of invisibile unicorns and believers of zues are?

No, something else is going on here...

In order to be consistent an agnostic would have to extend the same criterea he uses to judge knowledge of the existence or non-existence of god into all other areas. He should be shouting to the high heavens that a convicted murderer not be punished for his crimes because it is possible that in an alternate dimension, the murderer is in fact innocent. He should tell us to ignore the warning lables on food products because in an alternate dimension, what knowledge tells us is nutritious is different than the observable laws of biology pertaining to this one, and there is no way to be certain that just because we have no evidence for this dimension, that it does not exist.

The follwing is guesswork of course, but my opinion is that the agnostic position is one that is adopted by people who either have a very powerful subconscous attraction to the concept of a diety that no amount of argument could possibly ever rid themselves of, or a very powerful subconscious attraction to not rocking the boat too much and getting believers, many of whom may be freinds and relatives, angery at them. It is, unlike the imagined innocence of a murder in another realm, a very touchy subject for a lot of people. Perhaps agnostics simply don't want that aggravation, so they hide themselves in what they are convinced is an open-minded middle ground.

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Of course the major component for believing in God is faith since by his nature he cannot be proven by our current science methods this does not mean there is no evidence to warrant, for some people at least, that stepping out in faith.

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So what you're saying is that god is beyond the realm of human understanding, and yet, some people have the nerve to claim they understand him and can speak on behalf of him?

Just wanted to be clear.

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Ok, and which evidence warrants this extraordinary belief?

Would you agree that an extraordinary claim requires, at the minimum, extraordinary evidence?

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Why , these video debates present no new information , they are just the same old people telling us what they believe .

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I don't know what your beliefs are so let me ask you..

Did any of the video present similar beliefs you have?

Are you atheist? Agnostic? Theist?

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Sharp you already conceded that this universe is an extraordinary universe, and that earth is an extraordinary planet, and that humanity is an extraordinary species..

These are all extraordinary evidences that point to an extraordinary God.

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