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Christian Doctor Chemically Castrated Boy As Part Of 'Gay Cure'.


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#241 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:59 AM

Every new religious thread is an excuse to carry over the debate/argument from the last religious thread. It is rarely about the actual topic presented.


Perhaps you should then actually discuss the actual topic then instead of opining about the thread starter's motivations.

Or is that all your critical thinking skills able you to do?
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#242 Monty

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

Perhaps you should then actually discuss the actual topic then instead of opining about the thread starter's motivations.

Or is that all your critical thinking skills able you to do?



Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I already did comment way back at the start of the thread about my feelings on the issue; which I believe to be pretty cut and dry, regardless of whether someone is religious or not. But I can state it again for those who seem to take things way too personally.

Many people are mentally sick. Some are doctors, some are stock brokers, some are mechanics, some are chefs. Regardless of whether someone is religious or not, people make horrible decisions that nobody should agree with. It doesn't matter whether someone holds a particular belief system or not.

This doctor, in particular, is an awful person. It's pretty straight forward and there is really not much more to discuss on it. If someone goes on a killing spree and it turns out that they are an Atheist, I don't blame it on the fact that they don't have a personal relationship with ABC religion. The same goes for someone who claims to be religious, yet acts out and castrates one of their patients. In both situations, the person is mentally unwell and needs help.

There you go. Now back to the "off topic" at hand.

Edited by Monty, 13 September 2012 - 11:52 AM.

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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#243 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

Jai604 I see that you are genuinely wrapping your head around what I'm saying so I will try to respond to you as well as I can. Here we go:

Nope. False assumption. Anyone who really debates the existence of god knows that there is no way currently to either prove nor disprove the existence of god, and so it is moot to even argue it.


You are incorrect because there IS a difference between empirical evidence and credible evidence.

For example, you're on your way to work and you want to know if you're boss is in the office. You don't have empirical evidence of sight, but you have credible evidence to lead you to a certain belief that he's actually in the office.

You see his car in the parking lot
You see his light is on in the office
You see his jacket hanging in the closet

Are all these things empirical evidence to show that your boss is in the office? Nope. He may actually be out, in the bathroom, or what have you. But is it safe to believe he is in the office due to all the credible evidences? Yes.

It is NOT useless to debate on the credible evidences of God. But I concede with you, it IS useless to debate on empirical evidences that God exists. WHICH IS WHY I believe many atheists/agnostics are very very very misled into their own belief. That it requires EMPIRICAL evidence for belief in God, when really, it's just as logical to believe in God with CREDIBLE evidence. Following me here?

How do you refute the mountains of evidence that show that evolution has occurred on this planet for thousands and millions of years? You can't. Do you believe the world is only a few thousand years old?


Evolution doesn't disprove God nor does it remove weight from the Bible. I can shoot you a private message more on that topic, but here it is in sum: The Bible doesn't explain the mechanical workings of God.. that would be anachronistic to its original audience. The purpose of the Bible was to show WHO created the world. Genesis was written in a very poetic way and should be read poetically. Not literally. There's much more on this subject, for instance how we can tell what is taken literal or figuratively, but seriously, you can shoot me up a message and we can go from there.

Since one cannot prove the existence of god or the non-existence of god, we are then left with the question of whether or not there is enough evidence to believe in god. There is no evidence that shows god exists, so what is the rationale behind believing in god?

As Hitchens said, in this argument, you are left with 3 options:

1) All religions are correct, and all gods exist.

2) None of the religions are correct, and none of the gods exist.

3) One religion is correct, and all the thousands upon thousands of religions and gods are wrong and do not exist.


Which one seems most plausible to you?


I disagree with your premise, in which I believe there IS credible evidence that says God exists.

I believe that all religions (man made structures) are wrong, though some are closer to the truth than others. I believe the Evangelical church is the closest. But mind you, all religion is man made and therefore is not 100% true.

Throughout history mankind has sought to answer questions of the unknown. The ancient Greeks believed that lightning was caused by a bearded man in a toga having tempter tantrums throwing down thunderbolts that were crafted by a crippled blacksmith. That was their very primitive way of explaining natural phenomena that they couldn't otherwise explain. What's so different? So makes you so sure your god is the right one, when so many other gods have fallen by the wayside?


Greek mythology is written and read in exactly what it was intended to be.. as poetry.

The original writers were not given authority, nor do the stories ever entwine with actual living people. For example, Zeus and Hercules never interacted with Caesar Augustus or Alexander the Great. All stories of Greek gods are within their own universe much like Star Wars is separate from the real world.

On the other hand, I can say that the PRIMARY SOURCE writings of Jesus show he definitely entwined with real life people. The High Priest Phinehas, Pontius Pilate, and Herod the Great. All of these people are real. To defy Jesus existence is to pretty much deny the existence of real life people like Herod the Great. Do you deny his existence??? Logic points to the reality of Jesus. Just take the time to think about it.


Dajusta, since you claim that we are imperfect creatures and inherently flawed, and that we as humans cannot hope to understand god or his will, how then, do you logically reason that believers such as yourself can understand god. What makes you think you are able to speak on his behalf? Do you not see the irony of what you've said?

If we humans are such humble and meagre creatures, surely, then, if god did exist, we would not be able to understand such a being of immense power and wisdom, let alone believe we could ever hope to know his will, or have the audacity to spread god's word.


We are flawed, we are ignorant, however God is able to reveal himself to humanity IN OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. It's called a book, its called people, it's called research.

God gives us just enough for us to understand him. For example, a child who is just learning math isn't presented the functions of a calculator, logs, exponents, and derivatives. But a child is shown pictures, counting skills, and so forth.

We as humans are given enough to understand God. I believe the scriptures is apart of that plan. The Bible is the foundation of God's revelation to us in our flawed and limiting understanding as human beings.

See, god may exist, I can grant you that, but since there is no evidence that proves he does, there is no reason to believe god exists. Just as there is no reason to believe that Zeus is still up on Mount Olympus chucking thunderbolts and bedding Greek wenches and siring demi-gods.

As much as there is no reason to believe there is an orbiting teapot, or a flying spaghetti monster, or any of the pagan gods of old, there too, is no reason to believe in ANY god. Not once in human history, not once have any gods of any religions come down from the heavens and shown themselves to exist. As such, why would anyone believe that one god or any gods exist?


There is reason to know that God exists.

The laws of thermodynamics prove that existence cannot be eternal. It is approaching max entropy, which is absolute destruction. This all points to a source of creation. Dude, physics points to a creator. I can't believe you deny that simple understanding.

I earlier explained to you the difference of Greek mythology (which is supposed to be read poetically), and the Gospel narratives (which were meant to be taken literally).
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#244 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:37 PM

Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I already did comment way back at the start of the thread about my feelings on the issue; which I believe to be pretty cut and dry, regardless of whether someone is religious or not. But I can state it again for those who seem to take things way too personally.

Many people are mentally sick. Some are doctors, some are stock brokers, some are mechanics, some are chefs. Regardless of whether someone is religious or not, people make horrible decisions that nobody should agree with. It doesn't matter whether someone holds a particular belief system or not.

This doctor, in particular, is an awful person. It's pretty straight forward and there is really not much more to discuss on it. If someone goes on a killing spree and it turns out that they are an Atheist, I don't blame it on the fact that they don't have a personal relationship with ABC religion. The same goes for someone who claims to be religious, yet acts out and castrates one of their patients. In both situations, the person is mentally unwell and needs help.

There you go. Now back to the "off topic" at hand.


So it was his 'sickness' that's to blame....not his religion eh?

The disconnect is staggering.
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#245 Heretic

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:49 PM

So it was his 'sickness' that's to blame....not his religion eh?

The disconnect is staggering.


Well...think of it this way.

In order to stab someone, you need a sharp object.

In order for this guy to do what he did, he used his religion to be that sharp object.

But here's the kicker - the sharp object he used does not say to castrate homosexuals.

In other words, even though he used religion to back his actions, his religion doesn't actually back him.
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#246 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

Well...think of it this way.

In order to stab someone, you need a sharp object.

In order for this guy to do what he did, he used his religion to be that sharp object.

But here's the kicker - the sharp object he used does not say to castrate homosexuals.

In other words, even though he used religion to back his actions, his religion doesn't actually back him.


I hear what you're saying, however, can it be denied that the sharp object speaks to this guy and others like him, that motivate and convince them to stab others?
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#247 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

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Now this guy gets it.
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#248 Heretic

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

I hear what you're saying, however, can it be denied that the sharp object speaks to this guy and others like him, that motivate and convince them to stab others?


I can agree with that.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#249 Monty

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

So it was his 'sickness' that's to blame....not his religion eh?

The disconnect is staggering.



Interpret "sickness" whatever way you like. What I'm saying is that the doctor is a criminal. If Doctor A is an Atheist and castrates a patient because he's a homophobe, and Doctor B castrates a patient because he's a homophobe, guess what? They are both sick (sick meaning evil f*cking pr*cks).

If you want to think that this doctor is no different then every other Christian, just so you have another reason to fuel your hate towards religion, then by all means continue believing that.

I worked with a guy a few years ago who I called my friend. Never discussed religion as it wasn't important in our friendship. All around nice guy. That is until got arrested for beating his 12 year old daughter when he found out she was a lesbian. She only has vision in one of her eyes now, which is a shame.

Regardless of whether someone is religious or not, people who act like this are SICK people. Not as in "sickness." Surely you know the difference.

Edited by Monty, 13 September 2012 - 01:01 PM.

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Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#250 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

Posted Image


Now this guy gets it.


The only religious leader in the world who preaches tolerance and love ,and actually practices what he preaches .
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#251 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:30 PM

The only religious leader in the world who preaches tolerance and love ,and actually practices what he preaches .


He's 2000 years late, Jesus already said/did the same thing.

Edited by dajusta, 13 September 2012 - 02:30 PM.

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#252 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

He's 2000 years late, Jesus already said/did the same thing.


Jesus would never have described himself as a religious leader .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#253 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

He's 2000 years late, Jesus already said/did the same thing.


Was that before or after he rages on innocent fig trees?
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#254 unknown33429

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:17 PM

He's 2000 years late, Jesus already said/did the same thing.


Not to get too technical, but Buddhism predates Jesus by a long time.
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Are you CRAZY??? Trade Green for ONE first round pick?? He's restricted after this season.... He WILL get an offer sheet for 7-8 million from a number of teams regardless if he plays another minute for us or not. That offer sheet would be worth 4 first round draft choices.


Some fans overrate their players, and then there is this guy.

#255 Nevlach

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

Was that before or after he rages on innocent fig trees?

That tree was hardly innocent...just sitting there all growing and stuff...what a showoff.

Plus Jesus thought his Father's text message said "I hate figs" but he just misread it....

Edited by Nevlach, 13 September 2012 - 03:19 PM.

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#256 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:53 PM

Was that before or after he rages on innocent fig trees?


jesus commenting on the religious leaders of his day ,

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!” He condemned and illustrated their rapaciousness, their selfishness, their inward spiritual emptiness, and their emphasis on “scruple” while neglecting the “weightier” matters of justice, mercy, and faith

nothing has really changed .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#257 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:27 PM

Not to get too technical, but Buddhism predates Jesus by a long time.


Buddhism seeks to relinquish desire and love. It's totally different than compassion and actualizing altruism.

Did you know that a buddhist would say to a prostitute to continue in her line of work? Only by becoming a good prostitute would she rebirth into a better person in the next life?
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#258 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:34 PM

Buddhism seeks to relinquish desire and love. It's totally different than compassion and actualizing altruism.

Did you know that a buddhist would say to a prostitute to continue in her line of work? Only by becoming a good prostitute would she rebirth into a better person in the next life?


Which buddhist said this??
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#259 Jai604

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:37 PM

Buddhism seeks to relinquish desire and love. It's totally different than compassion and actualizing altruism.

Did you know that a buddhist would say to a prostitute to continue in her line of work? Only by becoming a good prostitute would she rebirth into a better person in the next life?


Before I get around to responding to your reply to mine, I just want to say "whoa, whoa, whoa", you'd better be careful making statements like these about Buddhism. You're opening an entirely different can of worms, and with an axe not with a can opener.

I really don't know where you got those ideas from.
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#260 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:37 PM

Which buddhist said this??


It's a fundamental understanding of the caste system put forth by Buddhism and Hinduism.

Nirvana is the one main goal. Only by fulfilling one's duty and karma can one be reborn into a "higher" being. A person being born as a farmer, or policeman, or some sort of trade, needs to fulfill his/her duty.
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#261 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

It's a fundamental understanding of the caste system put forth by Buddhism and Hinduism.

Nirvana is the one main goal. Only by fulfilling one's duty and karma can one be reborn into a "higher" being. A person being born as a farmer, or policeman, or some sort of trade, needs to fulfill his/her duty.


Oh, sorry, I wasn't asking about the fundamental understandings about Hinduism and Buddhism.

I was asking you which Buddhist said what you wrote, to a prostitute.


And you don't have a clue about Buddhism if you think the duties they're referring to have to do with vocational work....which itself could be argued to be a form of suffering.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 13 September 2012 - 04:45 PM.

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#262 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

Buddhism seeks to relinquish desire and love. It's totally different than compassion and actualizing altruism.

Did you know that a buddhist would say to a prostitute to continue in her line of work? Only by becoming a good prostitute would she rebirth into a better person in the next life?


One of jesus's BFF's was a prostitute .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#263 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Oh, sorry, I wasn't asking about the fundamental understandings about Hinduism and Buddhism.

I was asking you which Buddhist said what you wrote, to a prostitute.


It is not said word for word, but it is result of Buddha's teaching.

1. We all strive towards Nirvana
2. Eliminate personal desire
3. Fulfill your Dharma
4. Have good Karma

In modern day Thailand, some of the worst human trafficking exists. Many girls are fooled to believe that in order to have good Karma, they need to fulfil what they have been tasked with. Many girls are born into prostitution. It is a very sad thing.

Edited by dajusta, 13 September 2012 - 04:49 PM.

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#264 Heretic

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

jesus commenting on the religious leaders of his day ,

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!” He condemned and illustrated their rapaciousness, their selfishness, their inward spiritual emptiness, and their emphasis on “scruple” while neglecting the “weightier” matters of justice, mercy, and faith

nothing has really changed .


Exactly!!!!!!

People misused religion to suit their own needs back then and they do it today.
Doesn't mean religion is bad - means those that use it for their own use are bad.

Has nothing at all to do with what Jesus said - except that he was right and they were wrong.
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#265 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

Exactly!!!!!!

People misused religion to suit their own needs back then and they do it today.
Doesn't mean religion is bad - means those that use it for their own use are bad.

Has nothing at all to do with what Jesus said - except that he was right and they were wrong.


Heretic, how have you been? What happened to the God Thread? I am sad.
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#266 Sharpshooter

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

It is not said word for word, but it is result of Buddha's teaching.

1. We all strive towards Nirvana
2. Eliminate personal desire
3. Fulfill your Dharma
4. Have good Karma

In modern day Thailand, some of the worst human trafficking exists. Many girls are fooled to believe that in order to have good Karma, they need to fulfil what they have been tasked with. Many girls are born into prostitution. It is a very sad thing.


So are you saying that a buddhist didn't actually say what you said they did to a prostitute??
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#267 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:58 PM

Exactly!!!!!!

People misused religion to suit their own needs back then and they do it today.
Doesn't mean religion is bad - means those that use it for their own use are bad.

Has nothing at all to do with what Jesus said - except that he was right and they were wrong.


The definition of insanity
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

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#268 dajusta

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

So are you saying that a buddhist didn't actually say what you said they did to a prostitute??


Yes a buddhist did not word for word say a prostitute should continue in her line of work.

But according to hinduism and buddhism caste system, the only way to be reincarnated into a better life is to fulfill the life you have been given.
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#269 Jai604

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

You are incorrect because there IS a difference between empirical evidence and credible evidence.

For example, you're on your way to work and you want to know if you're boss is in the office. You don't have empirical evidence of sight, but you have credible evidence to lead you to a certain belief that he's actually in the office.

You see his car in the parking lot
You see his light is on in the office
You see his jacket hanging in the closet

Are all these things empirical evidence to show that your boss is in the office? Nope. He may actually be out, in the bathroom, or what have you. But is it safe to believe he is in the office due to all the credible evidences? Yes.

It is NOT useless to debate on the credible evidences of God. But I concede with you, it IS useless to debate on empirical evidences that God exists. WHICH IS WHY I believe many atheists/agnostics are very very very misled into their own belief. That it requires EMPIRICAL evidence for belief in God, when really, it's just as logical to believe in God with CREDIBLE evidence. Following me here?


There are some flaws in your logic here. How do I know that it's my boss' car? How do I know it's his office? How do I know it's his jacket? Probably because I've seen him get into his car, working in his office, or seen him wearing that jacket.

The problem is that your credible evidence has to be supported by empirical evidence. What credible evidence is there that god exists? There is none. Any evidence put forth claiming that god exists is either based off assumption or faith. You cannot use the word evidence when trying to prove god exists because so far there is none.

Evolution doesn't disprove God nor does it remove weight from the Bible. I can shoot you a private message more on that topic, but here it is in sum: The Bible doesn't explain the mechanical workings of God.. that would be anachronistic to its original audience. The purpose of the Bible was to show WHO created the world. Genesis was written in a very poetic way and should be read poetically. Not literally. There's much more on this subject, for instance how we can tell what is taken literal or figuratively, but seriously, you can shoot me up a message and we can go from there.


Evolution surely does not lend credence to the bible, since believers say that the world is only a few thousand years old.


I disagree with your premise, in which I believe there IS credible evidence that says God exists.


Such as?

I believe that all religions (man made structures) are wrong, though some are closer to the truth than others. I believe the Evangelical church is the closest. But mind you, all religion is man made and therefore is not 100% true.


At least we can agree on that part, lol.


Greek mythology is written and read in exactly what it was intended to be.. as poetry.

The original writers were not given authority, nor do the stories ever entwine with actual living people. For example, Zeus and Hercules never interacted with Caesar Augustus or Alexander the Great. All stories of Greek gods are within their own universe much like Star Wars is separate from the real world.

On the other hand, I can say that the PRIMARY SOURCE writings of Jesus show he definitely entwined with real life people. The High Priest Phinehas, Pontius Pilate, and Herod the Great. All of these people are real. To defy Jesus existence is to pretty much deny the existence of real life people like Herod the Great. Do you deny his existence??? Logic points to the reality of Jesus. Just take the time to think about it.


Um, I'm not sure if you're aware, but people actually worshiped the Greek gods. They built temples to them, they prayed to them, and they made sacrifices to them. They truly believed that making sacrifices to Demeter would bring a better harvest. They believed that making sacrifices and praying to Ares would bring them fortune in war. They feared that not praying to Poseidon and offering him sacrifice would bring storms and poor fishing.

And given authority? By whom? Sure, Jesus existed, it was documented, but are the claims of his divinity true? So he "entwined" with real life people. That does not prove anything other than the fact that Jesus walked the earth. I'm not denying the existence of Jesus, and not once did I do so, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

We are flawed, we are ignorant, however God is able to reveal himself to humanity IN OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. It's called a book, its called people, it's called research.


So he reveals himself by having people invent stories about him? Do tell me, how these books are proven to be ivine, god's word? Surely you cannot.
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#270 Jai604

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

God gives us just enough for us to understand him. For example, a child who is just learning math isn't presented the functions of a calculator, logs, exponents, and derivatives. But a child is shown pictures, counting skills, and so forth.

We as humans are given enough to understand God. I believe the scriptures is apart of that plan. The Bible is the foundation of God's revelation to us in our flawed and limiting understanding as human beings.


So let me ask you then, for the thousands upon thousands of years humans existed BEFORE those scriptures were written, everyone was just.... wrong? Plain wrong and uninformed? Their gods are inferior to yours?

There is reason to know that God exists.

The laws of thermodynamics prove that existence cannot be eternal. It is approaching max entropy, which is absolute destruction. This all points to a source of creation. Dude, physics points to a creator. I can't believe you deny that simple understanding.


Explain to me then how it is that god is eternal, as you claim.

I earlier explained to you the difference of Greek mythology (which is supposed to be read poetically), and the Gospel narratives (which were meant to be taken literally).

Genesis was written in a very poetic way and should be read poetically. Not literally.


:rolleyes:

You're just contradicting yourself now.
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