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Canada Closes Embassy in Iran, Expels Iranian Diplomats from Canada


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#61 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:27 PM

Because:

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." - George Bush

".. either stand with us or with the child pornographers" - Vic Toews

"Whoever is not with me is against me..." - Jesus Christ


from about a minute in , his words are golden


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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#62 taxi

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:34 PM

what like when the national guard in america fired into an unarmed crowd at kent state university , and killed innocent protesters ?


Yes. Quite similar to that.

and of course the hardline mullahs have minority rule , and do what they please , but bush's comments made moderate iranians show more support for the hardline religious freaks and thats when they ramped up their crackdown .


The Mullahs do not have minority rule. The Ayatollahs set the rules for the elections and have final say over the president and parliament. The hardliners would have lost the election but the Ayatollahs rigged it. Did you not read what I posted. The Ayatollahs stopped the opposition moderates from running any candidates in 1/3 of the ridings. They banned 2400 reformist candidates from riding.
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#63 TheClumsyGoalie

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:36 PM

Spin it any way you want .. our Canadian military is, for the most part, a joke .. and I am happy for that .. I have had 3 relatives serve in the Afghan situation and had many relatives serve and die for Canada .. what they died for only history can judge ..


Sorry for your losses, however I feel that you're letting the bad taste they left in your mouth dictate your opinions, rather than real actual facts.

Statistically, I would love to see you do more than pull your "info" out of your nether region .. based on statistics I have found, Canada has the 54th ranked Armed Forces group by size, Iran is 6th .. we have 128,000 folk in uniform and Iran has 3,833,000 .. do our snipers have that many bullets do you think? ..


This isn't the 12th century where the king sends his entire army to fight the other kings entire army on some open plain. Numbers don't matter as much as they used to. Technology, reconnaissance, budget... There are so many factors. As Sharpshooter pointed out, Iran spends 9 billion on defense, Canada, 21 billion. Iranian soldiers are equipped with outdated AK's and Type 56's whereas Canadian soldiers wear body armour, use advanced weaponry, and have gone through rigorous training. A large battle in modern war would probably have a few thousand men on each side. Take for example, the Second Battle of Fallujah.

Wikipedia:

The battle proved to be the bloodiest of the war and the bloodiest battle involving American troops since the Vietnam War.


There were approximately 18 thousand soldiers involved. When you take numbers away, all thats left is tactics and technology, which Canada clearly outclasses Iran in.

Not to mention Canada also has a superior air force and navy...

Edited by TheClumsyGoalie, 07 September 2012 - 05:39 PM.

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#64 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:55 PM

Yes. Quite similar to that.


The Mullahs do not have minority rule. The Ayatollahs set the rules for the elections and have final say over the president and parliament. The hardliners would have lost the election but the Ayatollahs rigged it. Did you not read what I posted. The Ayatollahs stopped the opposition moderates from running any candidates in 1/3 of the ridings. They banned 2400 reformist candidates from riding.


lets just say exactly what we mean , by minority rule i mean that a smaller percentage of the popolation support them ,as opposed to those who do not support them .
isreal has nukes , and they virtually reinvented the pre-emptive strike in the 60's and 70's , who apart from iraq has iran fought with in the late 20th , early 21st century . and with the MAD military doctrine WTF is ever going to use the bomb.
I believe that there is more chance that the hardline israeli's will use their nuclear weapons , they are the people who seem to like to take the law into their own hands while defying the international communities request's .

I want to see peace in the world , and that particular area of the world has been in turmoil since israel stole land from the palestinians , set up their own country and started to fight with all their nieghbours .
they never want to be conciliatory , but rather take more and more land away from the palestinians and threaten and bully their neighbours .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 07 September 2012 - 06:14 PM.

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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#65 skolozsy2

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

lets just say exactly what we mean , by minority rule i mean that a smaller percentage of the popolation support them ,as opposed to those who do not support them .
isreal has nukes , and they virtually reinvented the pre-emptive strike in the 60's and 70's , who apart from iraq has iran fought with in the late 20th , early 21st century . and with the MAD military doctrine WTF is ever going to use the bomb.
I believe that there is more chance that the hardline israeli's will use their nuclear weapons , they are the people who seem to like to take the law into their own hands while defying the international communities request's .

I want to see peace in the world , and that particular area of the world has been in turmoil since israel stole land from the palestinians , set up their own country and started to fight with all their nieghbours .
they never want to be conciliatory , but rather take more and more land away from the palestinians and threaten and bully their neighbours .

i hear what you're saying, and just like you and the most of the world, i would prefer world peace as well.

But that region has had issues well before Israel moved in and started creating even more problems. Iran/Iraq, India & Pakistan have hated each other forever, Lebanon was expolited and picked apart by its neighbors for years, the whole Persian/Arab friction...heck, Sunnis and Shi'ites have been killing each other since Mohammed died. Not to mention who knows how many civil wars and uprisings throughout history that have occured at one point or another in most middle eastern countries......and had nothing to do with Isreal.

Israel creates alot of tension in that region....but they are not alone.
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#66 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:45 PM

i hear what you're saying, and just like you and the most of the world, i would prefer world peace as well.

But that region has had issues well before Israel moved in and started creating even more problems. Iran/Iraq, India & Pakistan have hated each other forever, Lebanon was expolited and picked apart by its neighbors for years, the whole Persian/Arab friction...heck, Sunnis and Shi'ites have been killing each other since Mohammed died. Not to mention who knows how many civil wars and uprisings throughout history that have occured at one point or another in most middle eastern countries......and had nothing to do with Isreal.

Israel creates alot of tension in that region....but they are not alone.


mate i agree with what you are saying , and i have never said israel is the only one causing the tension in that area .
but we in the west seem to support israel , and they seem to be the catalyst for a lot of the friction in the middle east .

as i state in my profile , i try my best to treat others the way i expect to be treated myself , and i wish more people in the world lived by this ideal , and if they did there would not be as many problems like the one we are discussing in the world today.

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 07 September 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#67 Dellins

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:47 PM

why does jagermiester hate freedom ?


Because he doesn't care about the cause our soldiers are there for.

I keed.
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#68 key2thecup

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:50 PM

Does this serve Canada's interests? No.

Does this serve Israel's interests? Yes.
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#69 DonLever

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:07 PM

Does this serve Canada's interests? No.

Does this serve Israel's interests? Yes.


The Israeli leader Netanhayu said it was a great move. He applauds the decision.

See, some people think its great idea.
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#70 hudson bay rules

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:26 PM

Worst aspect of Harper gov't, imo. We are again puppets of the US.

I kinda miss Chretien's flip the bird attitude towards our southern neighbours.


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#71 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:02 AM

Worst aspect of Harper gov't, imo. We are again puppets of the US.

I kinda miss Chretien's flip the bird attitude towards our southern neighbors.


Well, I am not surprised at all. Harper has a biased agenda and will do anything to appease the Jews or more specifically, the Israeli government. We are actually Israel's puppet more so than being America's puppet.
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#72 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:04 AM

The Israeli leader Netanhayu said it was a great move. He applauds the decision.

See, some people think its great idea.


Some people as in Netanhayu and the rest of the Israeli government? Iranian-Canadians don't like this move, especially the ones that visit Iran.
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#73 Jägermeister

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:06 AM

Then you clearly hate freedom.


What can I say, I live for tyranny.
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#74 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:21 AM

There would never be a situation however, where their military goes up against ours solely though....other than in thoughts experiments perhaps.

Still, what makes you believe that their military would literally walk over ours?


Iran has way more man power. In fact, it is mandatory for all high school aged kids (18 years old) to go to military unless they are exempt due to special circumstances. Iran does have 10X more men on the active military list than Canada.
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#75 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:25 AM

Iran has way more man power. In fact, it is mandatory for all high school aged kids (18 years old) to go to military unless they are exempt due to special circumstances. Iran does have 10X more men on the active military list than Canada.


What good is 10x the manpower on the ground in the face of an unchallengeable aerial assault of short and long range weaponry?

Edited by Sharpshooter, 08 September 2012 - 01:35 AM.

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#76 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:30 AM

Allowed them "to do what they did"?

The Ayatollahs do what they want. Remember those protests where millions of poeople hit the streets demanding reform (the ones that happened after Bush). The Ayatollahs lined the streets with snipers and opened fire.


Really? when did that happen? I know that there was a girl killed in the protest but you are just making up stuff now.
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#77 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:35 AM

Spin it any way you want .. our Canadian military is, for the most part, a joke .. and I am happy for that .. I have had 3 relatives serve in the Afghan situation and had many relatives serve and die for Canada .. what they died for only history can judge ..

Statistically, I would love to see you do more than pull your "info" out of your nether region .. based on statistics I have found, Canada has the 54th ranked Armed Forces group by size, Iran is 6th .. we have 128,000 folk in uniform and Iran has 3,833,000 .. do our snipers have that many bullets do you think? ..


Yeah, I don't know why people think our military is so great. I mean I like the Canadian military but everyone knows that we aren't a superpower when it comes to military. Americans always make jokes about how mediocre our military is and some even question if we have a military.
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#78 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:45 AM

What good is 10x the manpower on the ground in the face of an unchallengeable aerial assault of short and long range weaponry?


Well, they also have more air crafts, more navys, more weapons ect. ect. C'mon, just admit that their military is better. They have more man power, more weapons, more artillery etc. They also buy cheaper weapons from Russia and make their own weapons, while Canada buys overpriced American weapons in limited numbers, thus the defense budget doesn't give an accurate picture of what they have or don't have. Not to mention the fact that some of that budget probably goes to pay the health, insurance, education and other benefits of the Canadian soldiers while Iran spends small amount of that budget in their currency to payoff for soldier's benefits and expense.
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#79 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:52 AM

Well, they also have more air crafts, more navys, more weapons ect. ect. C'mon, just admit that their military is better. They have more man power, more weapons, more artillery etc. They also buy cheaper weapons from Russia and make their own weapons, while Canada buys overpriced American weapons in limited numbers, thus the defense budget doesn't give an accurate picture of what they have or don't have. Not to mention the fact that some of that budget probably goes to pay the health, insurance, education and other benefits of the Canadian soldiers while Iran spends small amount of that budget in their currency to payoff for soldier's benefits and expense.


More aircraft means nothing when you aren't able to maintain air superiority against an opponent. Iran doesn't have one squadron of any kind of aircraft that could go head to head with the upgraded CF-18A's and defeat them....not one.

A superior air force can also decimate a large navy and larger standing combat personnel and their assets, like tanks and artillery.

So, how exactly is their military 'better' again?

Edited by Sharpshooter, 08 September 2012 - 01:53 AM.

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#80 Pouria

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

More aircraft means nothing when you aren't able to maintain air superiority against an opponent. Iran doesn't have one squadron of any kind of aircraft that could go head to head with the upgraded CF-18A's and defeat them....not one.

A superior air force can also decimate a large navy and larger standing combat personnel and their assets, like tanks and artillery.

So, how exactly is their military 'better' again?


Just because Canada has one "upgraded CF-18A" it doesn't mean they can beat out every other country's military. Iran also has those air defense missiles that are also "upgraded" to take down the CF-18A. Just because you've got one type of air craft in limited quantity, doesn't mean it will now beat the navy, air force and what not. Iran has long range and short range missiles, and everything in between. You can thank Russia for providing some of the weapons to Iran. Canada's military could be highly skilled but it doesn't mean that they will be defeating an army 10X bigger. This isn't a US military going head to head against Iran, it is Canada vs. Iran.
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#81 Common sense

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:33 AM

Harper has a biased agenda[...]


Better question is, which politician doesn't?
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#82 Dellins

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:07 AM

Israel and US say jump, Harper asks how high.
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#83 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:08 AM

Just because Canada has one "upgraded CF-18A" it doesn't mean they can beat out every other country's military. Iran also has those air defense missiles that are also "upgraded" to take down the CF-18A. Just because you've got one type of air craft in limited quantity, doesn't mean it will now beat the navy, air force and what not. Iran has long range and short range missiles, and everything in between. You can thank Russia for providing some of the weapons to Iran. Canada's military could be highly skilled but it doesn't mean that they will be defeating an army 10X bigger. This isn't a US military going head to head against Iran, it is Canada vs. Iran.


Canada has about 70 F-18A's....not one.

And Iran doesn't have a fighter that has the kind of weapon systems that would allow it to launch a missile first and kill the Canadian before being killed first....regardless of what they've received from the Russians. The Iranians are still flying around in F-14 Tomcat shells and Mig-29s.

Canada's air to air missiles are some of the best that the U.S has available to purchase, not to mention better radar, guidance systems and a plethora or better avionics.

Iran is still running on 1980's hardware in many instances.

Again, a larger troop force means nothing when you have 2000lb radar/laser guided bombs dropping on you. It just means your casualty figures will be higher.

Technologically speaking, Canada has the major edge....and that nullifies the numbers game that's on Iran's side as far as boots on the ground go. And yeah, Iran's navy would absolutely be sitting ducks without air protection. It's not like their naval vessels have the kind of anti-missile layers of defence that a Canadian frigate would be carrying. Not even close actually.
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#84 Special Ed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

Canada has about 70 F-18A's....not one.

And Iran doesn't have a fighter that has the kind of weapon systems that would allow it to launch a missile first and kill the Canadian before being killed first....regardless of what they've received from the Russians. The Iranians are still flying around in F-14 Tomcat shells and Mig-29s.

Canada's air to air missiles are some of the best that the U.S has available to purchase, not to mention better radar, guidance systems and a plethora or better avionics.

Iran is still running on 1980's hardware in many instances.

Again, a larger troop force means nothing when you have 2000lb radar/laser guided bombs dropping on you. It just means your casualty figures will be higher.

Technologically speaking, Canada has the major edge....and that nullifies the numbers game that's on Iran's side as far as boots on the ground go. And yeah, Iran's navy would absolutely be sitting ducks without air protection. It's not like their naval vessels have the kind of anti-missile layers of defence that a Canadian frigate would be carrying. Not even close actually.


Not to mention our geographic location. Good luck on invading Norh America. that's goes for even more powerful nations like china and Russia. You have a stronger ground force which still needs to be moved accross the ocean. So we can hit u with the luxury of not being hit back. And I highly doubt the US is letting Canada be replaced up north or Britain. Good luck with invading the fortress that is NA.

And we have not recruited hard like others. Imagine a threat on Canadian soil. I'm fairly certain our forces in service would increase drastically. ATM we are a docile country but we have proven to be a strong when needed.

With our history in the WW and what I have seen and read currently. We have some of the best troops in the world. Study warfare enough and you see how numbers often mean very little. Training, strategy, equipment, leadership and moral all play a major role.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#85 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:29 AM

Visualize Canada invading Iran, and after you put on fresh gonch, from peeing/pooping yer pants, ask yer self who would win? .. WE withdrew our diplomatic representatives, often a per-cursor to some aggressive action, NOT THEM .. so in a scenario where we attack them, we would look like the Leafs .. :lol:

And, we were talking strictly Canada versus Iran, NOT Iran versus Canada and all it's NATO bum-buddies .. perspective really matters, as does timing and a sense of humor ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 08 September 2012 - 09:29 AM.

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#86 Special Ed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Visualize Canada invading Iran, and after you put on fresh gonch, from peeing/pooping yer pants, ask yer self who would win? .. WE withdrew our diplomatic representatives, often a per-cursor to some aggressive action, NOT THEM .. so in a scenario where we attack them, we would look like the Leafs .. :lol:

And, we were talking strictly Canada versus Iran, NOT Iran versus Canada and all it's NATO bum-buddies .. perspective really matters, as does timing and a sense of humor ..


Canada vrs Iran. Iran can't even cross the ocean to get to us. We hit them they cat even hit us. I know who would win that battle. We have the capability to strike and weaken the Iranian infrastructure. They do not have the ability to weaken ours.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#87 keslercrosby

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:40 AM

[yt][/yt]

Edited by keslercrosby, 08 September 2012 - 10:41 AM.

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#88 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:48 AM

[yt]http://youtu.be/SSvNa2NsXEI[/yt]



What's the point of this video in this thread?? :huh:
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#89 taxi

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:56 AM

Really? when did that happen? I know that there was a girl killed in the protest but you are just making up stuff now.


Nope. Neda Salehi became a symbol for opression after her execution was caught on tape. But do you honestly think that was an isolate incident?

http://www.washingto...protest-deaths/

http://ncr-iran.org/...kill-protestors

Not only were there several confirmed incidents of the Iranian regime using snipers against its own people, they've now sent those same snipers to Syria:

http://www.telegraph...-crackdown.html
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#90 Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:59 AM

Not to mention our geographic location. Good luck on invading Norh America. that's goes for even more powerful nations like china and Russia. You have a stronger ground force which still needs to be moved accross the ocean. So we can hit u with the luxury of not being hit back. And I highly doubt the US is letting Canada be replaced up north or Britain. Good luck with invading the fortress that is NA.

And we have not recruited hard like others. Imagine a threat on Canadian soil. I'm fairly certain our forces in service would increase drastically. ATM we are a docile country but we have proven to be a strong when needed.

With our history in the WW and what I have seen and read currently. We have some of the best troops in the world. Study warfare enough and you see how numbers often mean very little. Training, strategy, equipment, leadership and moral all play a major role.


This was just a thought experiment mostly. It had already been established that Iran would face the full capabilities of NATO should it ever be struck by Iran, and also, Canada isn't a country capable of launching a war thousands of kilometers away on foreign territory alone either.

The case by others was made that they believe the Canadian military would be no match for the Iranian one.

I disagreed, and tried to show that they'd be more than capable of being a match, they'd be victorious, based on their air superiority alone.

So, this is really a scenario where you put Canada vs Iran on some fictional map and let them go at it with the equipment and the men they have and see who wins. In my mind you bring up some very good points about being a volunteer army versus a member of a mandatory serviced one. Other things like funding plays a very important role as it leads to better training, better equipment, more supplies......all things vital to winning a battle.

If Canada had to attack Iran, the logistics of sending our forces would be very challenging as we don't necessarily have the equipment to haul all the troops there, nor a place to stage from. However, if it was a head to head battle, i'm confident that Canada would prevail.
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