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How did the Canucks Lose so bad then ?


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#1 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:34 PM

Since Hockey news a lil slow and non existent now, I thought I might promote some discussion, as I was wondering myself ?

How does the 1997 Canucks Team with a roster consisting of

Pavel Bure
Trevor Linden

Mark Messier (oops,forgot to include him on the original post)
Alexander Mogilny
Marcus Naslund
Todd Bertuzzi
Martin Gelinas
Geoff Sanderson
Brad May
Peter Zezel
Gino Odjick
Donald Brashear
Mattias Ohlund
Jyrki Lumme
Adrian Aucoin
Bryan Mcabe

Dana Murzyn
Grant Ledyard
Steve Staios
Kirk Mclean
Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe
Corey Hirsch


Not only did they not compete for the Stanley Cup, But they did not even make the Playoffs ?

I dont think its as easy to blame Messiers presence
He was still a good player and wanted to win
As did the Canucks with Many Leadership qualities among them

I dont remember much of these times,but they looked like they had a good mix of Skill, Speed, Toughness, Leadership, Veterans, Youth Goaltending
Keenan was the coach

It looks like Todays team would have a tough time beating this one (on paper anyways)

Edited by ba;;isticsports, 08 September 2012 - 12:02 PM.

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#2 sonoman

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:42 PM

Iron Mike ;)
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#3 Vancouver911

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

we had burke on the team cost us bad luck
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#4 Pears

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:48 PM

we had burke on the team cost us bad luck

Well, he did make multiple trades to be able to draft both of the Sedins.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#5 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:15 PM

because
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NHL! WHY YOU LOCKOUT!

#6 kingleysniper

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:16 PM

Those were pretty dark days, it was a case of a team of superstars don't make a great team
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#7 Slegr

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:21 PM

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Let's see... Pavel Bure was not wanting to be in Vancouver by that point, even with the extra minutes under Iron Mike,
Marcus Naslund was not the superstar yet that he became, Gino Odjick's best days were behind him,
Dana Murzyn was still playing like Dana Murzyn, Kirk Mclean had hit the bottle after separating with his wife, the general chemistry on the team was sour, there was no proper system in place and no priority on defense. The games were high scoring with plenty of toughness, but we often wound up the loser.

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"I knew we had a great team. I told everyone if we play as a group, we can win it all. Everyone laughed. Now we're laughing."
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#8 erbiy74

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:24 PM

Let's see... Pavel Bure was not wanting to be in Vancouver by that point, even with the extra minutes under Iron Mike,
Marcus Naslund was not the superstar yet that he became, Gino Odjick's best days were behind him,
Dana Murzyn was still playing like Dana Murzyn, Kirk Mclean had hit the bottle after separating with his wife, the general chemistry on the team was sour, there was no proper system in place and no priority on defense. The games were high scoring with plenty of toughness, but we often wound up the loser.


i agree with the bure comment....he was never treated well in vancouver and wanted out long ago..
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#9 Arrrrrrtem

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:00 PM

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What centers are on that list? Zezel? Linden? almost Sakic-Forsberg comparable, due to the elite skills of Zezel
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#10 Wheels22

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:03 PM

Too many players getting passed their prime (Odjick, Murzyn, Maclean.. Dave Babych was on his 17th season)

And too many players yet to blossom to their future capabilities (Naslund, Bertuzzi, Ohlund, McCabe)

..

Also a lot of bad coaching, player disputes, bad chemistry... Just not a great time for this team

Edited by Wheels22, 07 September 2012 - 09:05 PM.

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#11 Super_Canuck

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:27 PM

Ok well that list isn't that accurate. Alot of those players were not a part of the team all at once 1997. In fact Bertuzzi, Mccabe, Geoff Sanderson, Peter Zezel, Brad May, Sean Burke were not Canucks until 1998.

Bertuzzi and Mccabe were traded for Linden. Brad May was traded for Geoff Sanderson. McLean and Gelinas were traded for Sanderson, Burke and Ciccone and a couple months later Sean Burke himself was traded for Garth Snow and all these moves happened in the early part of 1998 (calendar year).

So as you can see, there was a lot of transition, there was no chemistry amongst the players. Most of the players did not want to play for Keenan. There was the Bure distraction, the organization itself was not very well run, they were in financial trouble. I'm not sure how old you are and maybe you're too young to remember but the late 90's was a dark period in Canucks history. As hard as it is to believe today but not every game was sold out, there wasn't a waiting list to get season tickets, The Canucks were not a hot ticket and were not too far away from perhaps being re-located.

Of course Naslund and Bertuzzi at the time were not the stars they became later on aswell.

Edited by Super_Canuck, 07 September 2012 - 09:29 PM.

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#12 Canucks_fo_life

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:58 PM

Please dont remind of those years where were super hyped and super choked
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I rather lose with the Canucks, than win with any other team

This is OUR year

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#13 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:11 PM

Yeah, first get the lineup correct. THEN we can whine about it.

First thought: Too many guys coming up. Too many almost done.
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#14 CB007

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:12 PM

Since Hockey news a lil slow and non existent now, I thought I might promote some discussion, as I was wondering myself ?

How does the 1997 Canucks Team with a roster consisting of

Pavel Bure
Trevor Linden
Alexander Mogilny
Marcus Naslund
Todd Bertuzzi
Martin Gelinas
Geoff Sanderson
Brad May
Peter Zezel
Gino Odjick
Donald Brashear
Mattias Ohlund
Jyrki Lumme
Adrian Aucoin
Bryan Mcabe

Dana Murzyn
Grant Ledyard
Steve Staios
Kirk Mclean
Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe
Corey Hirsch


This roster is incorrect. For one, Linden and Bertuzzi/McCabe cannot be on the team at the same time as Linden was traded for Bert and McCabe in early 1998.

How do we have 4 goalies?

The 96 - 97 team also had Mike Ridley, who centred Bure and Mogilny. Mogilny came out in public criticizing the lack of talent in Ridley as not being worthy to play with Bure and himself. In 1997 off season they signed Messier, which didn't make things better.
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#15 Hockey Fever

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:25 PM

Lack of chemistry, heart, determination and a winning game plan.
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NHL Wikipedia : Operates Major Ice Hockey League known for predetermining Stanley Cup winners and rampant corrupt officiating

"I would love for (the Canucks) to win the Stanley Cup because that would put to bed all the talk about 1994", he says facetiously".
Nathan Lafayette on hitting the post in game seven of the Stanley Cup.


#16 Hockey Fever

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:28 PM

This roster is incorrect. For one, Linden and Bertuzzi/McCabe cannot be on the team at the same time as Linden was traded for Bert and McCabe in early 1998.

How do we have 4 goalies?

The 96 - 97 team also had Mike Ridley, who centred Bure and Mogilny. Mogilny came out in public criticizing the lack of talent in Ridley as not being worthy to play with Bure and himself. In 1997 off season they signed Messier, which didn't make things better.


No wonder Mogilny never won anything, self centered baby.

Edited by Hockey Fever, 07 September 2012 - 10:29 PM.

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Posted Image

NHL Wikipedia : Operates Major Ice Hockey League known for predetermining Stanley Cup winners and rampant corrupt officiating

"I would love for (the Canucks) to win the Stanley Cup because that would put to bed all the talk about 1994", he says facetiously".
Nathan Lafayette on hitting the post in game seven of the Stanley Cup.


#17 sniper_1

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:24 PM

This roster is incorrect. For one, Linden and Bertuzzi/McCabe cannot be on the team at the same time as Linden was traded for Bert and McCabe in early 1998.

How do we have 4 goalies?

The 96 - 97 team also had Mike Ridley, who centred Bure and Mogilny. Mogilny came out in public criticizing the lack of talent in Ridley as not being worthy to play with Bure and himself. In 1997 off season they signed Messier, which didn't make things better.


Yeah tough assignment for Ridley. Centering two goal sucks waiting at the offenses blueline for breakaway passes. Not much backchecking back then. Mogilny did eventually get a cup with New Jersey when he finally played a two way game.
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#18 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:24 PM

IThis roster is incorrect. For one, Linden and Bertuzzi/McCabe cannot be on the team at the same time as Linden was traded for Bert and McCabe in early 1998.

How do we have 4 goalies?

The 96 - 97 team also had Mike Ridley, who centred Bure and Mogilny. Mogilny came out in public criticizing the lack of talent in Ridley as not being worthy to play with Bure and himself. In 1997 off season they signed Messier, which didn't make things better.


I disagree, the roster is correct
Before a few of You skeptics make comments about rosters being incorrect
I never stated that it was a full roster, I said a roster that consisted of these players (some people only read what they wanna read and jump all over it,much like the spelling police will)

Also Super_canuck 1998 is part of the 97 season, as You will recall the season starts in Oct

Is there always a need to nitpick someones posts?
Naslund,Bertuzzi were Younger? (what 24)?
Does that mean they didnt have talent or leadership instilled in them ?

Mogilny,Messier,Bure were Elite athletes with pride for retaining that aura, they were not 1 hit wonders
Linden and the others were no slouches either


Wheels22 stating Odjick 27,murzyn 31,Mclean 31 pass their prime ? Only Babyck was 36

Slegr "Let's see... Pavel Bure was not wanting to be in Vancouver by that point, even with the extra minutes under Iron Mike," - well he still scored 51 goals 90+ points and was a plus + player

TOmaplelaughs(as well as cb007) "Yeah, first get the lineup correct. THEN we can whine about it." - Roster was right,never said anything about a line-up ( Also Not looking to whine,just wondering what went wrong) ?

Irregardless we had very talented players throughout that Season , who under performed

I thank and welcome all of the ones who respond for the gist of sharing opinions, rather than picking apart someones post
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#19 Raph

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:59 PM

Linden stated in one of his appearances on Global TV, Mike Keenan had no systems. His system was "go out and play hard". How do we break in? How do we set up defense? What set plays do we have? All nothing.
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Untouchables: Tanev, Jensen, Kassian
Mostly untouchable: Sedins (need someone to man the fort and no trade value)
Open to trade: Everyone else
Drive to airport: Bieksa, Edler

Bring back: Ehrhoff

#20 MC Fatigue

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:42 AM

No wonder Mogilny never won anything, self centered baby.

cup with nj says hi...
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#21 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:09 AM

What centers are on that list? Zezel? Linden? almost Sakic-Forsberg comparable, due to the elite skills of Zezel


This. Linden only played half a season and only got 7 goals and 21 points - he just wasn't the player he had been and Bertuzzi, Naslund and McCabe were not yet the players they would become. The Canucks were very thin down the middle, and Bure had reached the point where he just waited on the other side of the blue line for someone to get the puck out of their own zone. It wasn't pretty - it was a really disfunctional team without a single quality centre icemen.
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#22 Wheels22

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:32 AM

Wheels22 stating Odjick 27,murzyn 31,Mclean 31 pass their prime ? Only Babyck was 36


How were these players doing around this time? ....

Odjick couldn't put up any points any more, basically just there to fight, ice time was shrinking, was out of hockey by 2002

Murzyn was mainly used as a depth D, was out of NHL by 1998 (one year later)

Mclean was playing average at best, while barely getting to 20 wins, then was traded a year later and was a backup the rest of his career, out of hockey by 2001

When I said these players were passed their prime, I meant their best years were behind them.. Don't get all butt hurt because I told you why the team wasn't successful, it's just a thread dude
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#23 Riviera82

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:52 AM

I prefer to reminisce about the early 90s, when the Canucks were an explosive offensive team with great goaltending and were simply exciting to watch all the time.
The late 90s were awful and I hate thinking about it.
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#24 canacks1970

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:31 AM

Well, he did make multiple trades to be able to draft both of the Sedins.



Wrong Burke!! He was referring to the goaltender Sean Burke. Brian wasn't hired until the next season.
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#25 canacks1970

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

Since Hockey news a lil slow and non existent now, I thought I might promote some discussion, as I was wondering myself ?

How does the 1997 Canucks Team with a roster consisting of

Pavel Bure
Trevor Linden
Alexander Mogilny
Marcus Naslund
Todd Bertuzzi
Martin Gelinas
Geoff Sanderson
Brad May
Peter Zezel
Gino Odjick
Donald Brashear
Mattias Ohlund
Jyrki Lumme
Adrian Aucoin
Bryan Mcabe

Dana Murzyn
Grant Ledyard
Steve Staios
Kirk Mclean
Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe
Corey Hirsch


Not only did they not compete for the Stanley Cup, But they did not even make the Playoffs ?

I dont think its as easy to blame Messiers presence
He was still a good player and wanted to win
As did the Canucks with Many Leadership qualities among them

I dont remember much of these times,but they looked like they had a good mix of Skill, Speed, Toughness, Leadership, Veterans, Youth Goaltending
Keenan was the coach

It looks like Todays team would have a tough time beating this one (on paper anyways)



At the start of the season we had Quinn as the Gm and Tom Renney as the coach. We came out of the gate at 4 wins-20 losses or something like that. We had People at Orca bay trying to run a hockey team when they shouldn't have to begin with. I can't remember the Guys name who fired Quinn instead of the Renney. His only experience before he came into Orca bay was running BC Gas..Thats right BC GAS..No hockey experience whatsoever . And to top it off after a week or so he fired Tom Renney and then has the balls to ask if Pat wants to come back and coach.
In the meantime Imo we had another monkey from Orca Bay Stan McCammon stepping in and hired Iron Mike and the rest of the season was a fire sale.
At the end of the season Linden,Genlina,Odjick,Ledyard,McLean,And Hirsh were no longer with the team ,And Pavol soon followed the following year. The well known spat Keenan had with Linden in St.louis. Special treatment for Messier stating until you win 6 Stanley Cups and winning Canada cups you can then ask for time off from practice. Yup!! I would have to say that whole season was a gong show. The only thing you were guarentee was that you could walk up to the ticket booth and get a ticket pretty much anywhere.
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#26 winacup

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:05 AM

cuz they're the canucks.
what's changed?
they're still cupless 15 years later.
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#27 dura_mater

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:08 AM

Since Hockey news a lil slow and non existent now, I thought I might promote some discussion, as I was wondering myself ?

How does the 1997 Canucks Team with a roster consisting of

Pavel Bure
Trevor Linden
Alexander Mogilny
Marcus Naslund
Todd Bertuzzi
Martin Gelinas
Geoff Sanderson
Brad May
Peter Zezel
Gino Odjick
Donald Brashear
Mattias Ohlund
Jyrki Lumme
Adrian Aucoin
Bryan Mcabe

Dana Murzyn
Grant Ledyard
Steve Staios
Kirk Mclean
Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe
Corey Hirsch


Not only did they not compete for the Stanley Cup, But they did not even make the Playoffs ?

I dont think its as easy to blame Messiers presence
He was still a good player and wanted to win
As did the Canucks with Many Leadership qualities among them

I dont remember much of these times,but they looked like they had a good mix of Skill, Speed, Toughness, Leadership, Veterans, Youth Goaltending
Keenan was the coach

It looks like Todays team would have a tough time beating this one (on paper anyways)


I really can't tell if you're being serious or not. You do realise Todd Bertuzzi and Markus Naslund, in 1997, were not dominant players right?
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#28 ba;;isticsports

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

I really can't tell if you're being serious or not. You do realise Todd Bertuzzi and Markus Naslund, in 1997, were not dominant players right?


serious sure,why not?
Dominate or not,Naslund and Bertuzzi still had skill set didnt they?
They were not expected to be the go to guys at the time, no pressure or top players/checkers to play against

I think canacks1970 response was a good reason why,as well as under performing
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#29 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

Really you want to know why, well I'll tell you 2 names pay attention, Mark Messier first, Mike Keenan 2nd. That's all you need to know, and answers everything you want to know, to why the Canucks were a FAIL at that time.
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Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


#30 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:40 PM

Lack of chemistry, heart, determination and a winning game plan.


In other words, no Aaron Rome. :bigblush:
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