Kesler/Bieksa/Lou Twitter

[Hobbes!!!]

Wow there's a lot of catfighting going on in here.

Question to OP.

So let's say I'm a nurse. Yes, I went to school. Yes, I make more than average. No, I don't get paid enough. Yes, my union, the BCNU, agrees with me. And yes, if my employer tried to cut back my wages by a huge chunk, I would be pissed (and block trolls on twitter who say I should be happy with what I have).

Just because I make more than average, I don't have a right to want what I believe to be fair compensation?

[BuretoMogilny]

Yeah clearly I didn't study long enough to get my topic degree at university.

Clearly you're qualified enough to judge people.

[BuretoMogilny]

Wow there's a lot of catfighting going on in here.

Question to OP.

So let's say I'm a nurse. Yes, I went to school. Yes, I make more than average. No, I don't get paid enough. Yes, my union, the BCNU, agrees with me. And yes, if my employer tried to cut back my wages by a huge chunk, I would be pissed (and block trolls on twitter who say I should be happy with what I have).

Just because I make more than average, I don't have a right to want what I believe to be fair compensation?

[elvis15]

Ok

Listen

If you want to act like the republicans and just make up stuff to support your arguments fine. If you want to have an intelligent conversation there are some things you have to just realize you are not going to win in a debate here son.

1.http://www.nytimes.c...-says.html?_r=0

2. If you understand statistics, you'd realize I am probably being generous suggesting the average fan makes the median income in the US, if you don't understand that point, take a course at a university in stats.

3. Most players in the NHL have not come from the college route, that is a fact. And again, you may want to hypothesize that somehow the majority of these guys are taking summer classes at universities, then following along to do their masters but ok...sure buddy.

4. Point about competing is about now. You really don't get the nuances of arguments do you. What is their alternative at this point? If they had no hockey to play, no millions from playing a sport, what exactly would they do tomorrow? Not suggesting they couldn't compete if they had the education and experience I do, point is they DON'T and they are complaining making millions.

I really don't quite understand how people are suggesting that people making millions crying poor is not disingenuous and insulting to the fans.

But ok, thats your opinion good on ya.

[BuretoMogilny]

1. I never said anything about whether or not what you claimed as the median income is false. I did mention your next point though.

2. If you have proof of that, then you can claim it as fact. Until then, you can't. At best it's an educated opinion.

3. A fair number of players have gone on and gotten education on their own if they didn't take the college route to the NHL, that is a fact. Whether or not it's a majority is another question, but I'm not arguing that, just that what your stating as fact once again is only what you think may be the truth.

4. What would you do if the financial market had been restructured as a result of the resent crisis and you had no job, no however much money from moving other people's money around, what would you do tomorrow? Not suggesting you couldn't compete if you had the training and athletic ability they do, point is you don't (or maybe you do, I don't make assumptions like you) and you're complaining about other people's incomes.

Once again, you've ignored the point of what this thread is centralized on, and what I've been saying to you in response: they don't care if you have facts or opinions, whether you're nice or abusive, or if you make lots of money or very little. They blocked you because you spammed their Twitter with what can certainly be seen as abusive tweets and it means absolutely nothing in regard to their comprehension of the issues around the CBA negotations.

Let me put it in terms you'd understand - and this is the important part so make sure to pay attention rather than skip over it to try and talk about facts or how you worked on Wall St. and no better than anyone else here or in the NHL about the financial state of the league. Actually, to make sure it sinks in I'll just edit a line from one of your other posts, just read it as if you were Bieksa or Kesler or Luongo:

[elvis15]

I understand alot of terms, and if you want to play that game I am sure I understand alot more terms than you. I was responding to your comments which you clearly now see do not support your argument and thats fine. I also respect your point that they can choose to do what they want.

You are not understanding my point that I hit a nerve. All three blocking me at the same time clearly means it bothered them. Not about spamming.

Further, in 2008 our whole group was let go in NY. So I have been there, and I turned it into something more. And I for one am very appreciative of what I have, and just as them have earned it. And if you don't believe me, take a look at my twitter account and you'll notice who I am supporting and voting for in this election. Clearly not someone who will lower my taxes, instead someone who cares about the whole, thinks about all stakeholders and says, lets find a happy medium.

I am not complaining that they make money, the point again is that they are not appreciative of the people who provide them the oppty to make that money, the fans. Because if they were, they'd realize the owners actually have a pretty strong case here that the CBA actually worked out much more in favour of the players than was intended.It was supposed to be a partnership, the word they themselves keep using.

And as such, they may not cave but they'd be more willing to accept the reality of the situation and lower their expectations.

Again, I don't cry poor, I am not sure how millionaires playing hockey can be crying poor, I'm missing something maybe.

I have worked around narcisitic, greedy people my entire career, I can smell them a mile away, and these players just reek of it.

[BuretoMogilny]

I said it in my previous post, but if you want to talk about the CBA and the lockout and the financial state of the league, feel free to go discuss it in the /topic/334233-official-cba-negotiations-and-lockout-thread/">33 page CBA thread. In case it's unclear, that also includes what you perceive the players' attitudes to be when it comes to how they got where they are financially.

All you're talking about here is how you had three NHL players block you from their twitter accounts after spamming them with a bunch of tweets (normally a tweet is 140 characters or less, you sent 6) that can certainly be seen as aggressive. I've said multiple times how that's not you hitting a nerve, it's just them using the button next to your tweets that allows them not to have to get spammed anymore.

You've essentially admitted you don't understand technology like Twitter since you didn't realize people could view your tweets, so it's certainly plausible to reach the conclusion you don't know how easy it is to block someone in less time than it takes to even read one tweet, let alone six.

I haven't made any arguments in this thread for or against the players, or what I think Bieksa, Kesler and Luongo stand for on the issue. I haven't touched on what I think of their moral character. Of the three, only Bieksa hadn't played an NHL game prior to the last lockout but did the following year, so they have been there too. I'm not even talking about the issues of the CBA negotiations. I'm talking about how you have perceived a whole issue based solely on three players blocking you from their Twitter and come to an insane conclusion using mostly opinion and refuse to see the possibility of it being any other way.

In that case, you're welcome to your opinion and to not like the players or want them on the Canucks any longer. I'll leave you with one final quote in your own words since you're clearly obtuse to what you've sounded like this whole thread.

In the end, you aren't happy if you get an honest response or if people ignore you, so I'll choose the latter and let you prattle on about whatever you think as fact. It would have taken me less time to do so from the start than it would have to get invested in the debate, ironic isn't it?

[Alex the Great]

Simply why block someone who's a fan making an honest comment, read it, understand it, and maybe read between the lines of the frustration of it as you sit down with your colleagues, and think about the impact you're having on people's lives, their earnings.

An ignore, a block, no all at the same time....says more than you personally want to accept...it pricked their egos. It told them they weren't so important, that they need to look in the mirror and understand that they are lucky, not that they are some people changing the world. But their ego's can't handle it.

Simply, they play a game, their decision to take a few hundred thousands less on their millions is affecting the lives of people making a lot less, i have said who those people are.

Players today play for money, not the fans. Bieksa and Kelser play for money. Lou, well, as I said, he showed some respect after, and to a man, I appreciate that, says he's seeing what others are saying, thinking about it. That's all the fans ask for, consider others in this. The players state they are, but their non willingness to look at the reality of this situation suggests while they say one thing, they certainly aren't walking the walk.

Trade those two, yes. You know why, not because of twitter, but rather about what it says. It says that fan's anger doesn't matter, that fan who paid alot of money to see me in the playoffs doesn't matter. Someone who cares about the fans would say, man that guy is pissed, but I get it, and you know what, they have a right to be. And, he has a point. But my guess is it went down more like this.

"Hey Kes who's this bitch going off on us"

"I dunno some idiot, just another whiny fan"

"Lets just block him, I'm tired of dealing with this crap"

"tell Lou to do the same"

The fact Lou even responded to that comment that he blocked me, hey, his heart's in the right place, and of all guys after all the crap he's been through here, he responded. Didn't expect nor want that, but it says something about the PERSON.

So what it tells me about Bieksa and Kesler is simple. They care about number 1, that's all. Fans are there to pay and watch them, because they are the stars. Lou realizes, the real stars are the fans. For a person who was not really caring if Lou was traded, well now I see who has the character, the heart, who cares about the fans, his impact and the city.

In my world reading into people's motives, responses is a big part of understanding a human being. Its much more complex than you think it is, or are giving credence to.

We agree to disagree, I for one question if the money has gotten to their heads. I think it has.

[BuretoMogilny]

Trade them for what it means? Are you nuts?

Yes they care about fan anger but no when their job is on the line I'm sure they have plenty more important things to care about then one person spamming their twitter accounts.

But I know you'll only be happy when someone says "Omg. Trade those horrible horrible players, they're cancers in the locker room because they have a horrible attitude on TWITTER."

[johngould21]

Nah just says alot about their attitudes...you won't get it and that's ok...i do..so i don't need to spend my money lining their wallets... I will watch the pens who at least compete in game 7's

[Niloc009]

Exactly, So while I agree that owners are to blame a few issues are at hand here.

1. The current CBA had a term for a reason. Basically, it allowed both sides to see what happens, if its not working for either side well time to level it off, this is what's happened. It worked out very well for the players not so much the owners.

2. HRR split. Owners want more of it since they need to cover expenses. Players get pure profit (no expenses tied to the HRR for them), not to mention they are getting large contracts already.

3. Teams are losing money, the economy is in the dumps, ticket prices at all time highs, owners realize this can't go on forever and the economic situation is likely to catch up to them and profits will be worse.

4. Compared to other pro athletes, well look at the NFL, no guaranteed contracts, you take less to have the guarantee, doesn't seem to be the case in the NHL.

5. Issue from this post was less about the CBA and more insight into some key players mentalities. It bothered me alot, because again it wasn't trolling, mean spirited and in fact I had tweeted the same things to the Caps owner, he didnt block me, probably because to a certain extent he gets both sides. It bothers me that players think that they are the most important part of the game. They would not be rich without us, without that guy making 50k to take his kid to a game.

6. You have players now wanting to get traded to get a chance to play more and score points early in their careers so their next contract is big, vs learning the game (CoHo) and many others, reeks of entitlement.

7. The sillyness of those two to get so upset by some random guys tweet really says alot about who they are, thats the point of this thread, and as a long time canuck fan it actually bothered me, because it spoke about their character.

[TACIC]

Trades Kes and Bieksa for Toews and hljamrsson

[Alex the Great]

Trades Kes and Bieksa for Toews and hljamrsson

[TACIC]

Nah I'm not

[BuretoMogilny]

Trades Kes and Bieksa for Toews and hljamrsson

[TACIC]

Quite the leader Kes is,a diving little b**ch who doesn't even go to help negotiate a contract,come on does he even care?

[johngould21]

No brainer there. I actually hope they cancel the season. Let the players crying poor/millionaires see how good they have it. Learn some respect for the game, the fans, those things that make them millions.

Little spoiled brats is what this league has turned into and Bettman is doing the right thing, putting them in their place. They take no capital risk, they don't put out 150 million plus to buy a team.

Owners deserve a chance to make a profit, they keep claiming oh revenues are up, revenues are up. Well clearly our hockey playing superstars don't understand accounting. Revenues do not equal profits (well unless of course you're a player and you're getting HRR - for which on the player side there is no expense).

You hear them constantly barking that, revs are up. Hey players, owners have expenses, and if those expenses are going up faster than revenues you are bleeding money, thats simple math.

They argue they are the product, ok you are, well go play in a league that pays you more then. There's your option. Go market your product in a league that will pay you more. Oh they can't lol...

What a bunch of whiners/self centered, immature narcisists.

[BuretoMogilny]

Quite the leader Kes is,a diving little b**ch who doesn't even go to help negotiate a contract,come on does he even care?

[BuretoMogilny]

Is that you Craig?

[DarthMelvin]

While I agree with you on the entitlement aspect...you are pointing this out on a website with "superfan" mentality. Some of the members here would dive in front of a bullet for these guys. I would not.

While I love the Canucks I love the thought of the "team" not just those who play on it. The owner is bringing this team to us. HIm I respect and players well a lock out is upon us and they bail to the next hockey playing country with out blinking an eye. That shows their love for us.

Its about the dollar for those involved and for the owners rightly so. Players well most contracts speak for themselves. 1 player I respect is Alexander Burrows, he took a small contract to help improve the team.

As for Kes and Kev, well those two, you can clearly see their attitudes suck when they are on the ice...I laff at those who say Kes should be Captain...Kev better fight more to protect our stars cuz his wrist shot sux.