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Black Holes - Would Earth be sucked in?


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#1 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:58 AM

Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning...

After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread. In addition, I assume a hypothetical impossible situation, I understand why it cant happen but am trying to make a point.
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As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our universe. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands)

As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The star would then explode as a supernova then potentially compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to.

"What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?"

Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen...

Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change.


As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another.
Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change!

This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true.

I'll try to explain this as best I can...

The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized... 1 meter from the core of the star.

Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle.
- Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space)
- Our mass is still the same
But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the event horizon where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has an event horizon of only a few miles across.

In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away...

Fascinating.

EDIT: The Sun is much too small to take the "black hole route" upon its death, instead it will turn into a white dwarf star. Also, the earth will be obliterated by the preceding Red GIant and not be here when the black hole exists.

However, this article assumes the impossible hypothetical situation where the sun just suddenly poof's into a black hole, skipping the expansion of a Red Giant. The reason is because I'm trying to explain the effect of how the gravitational force the black hole has on objects does not ever change on the masses around it.

Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly.

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Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 08:29 PM.

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Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#2 Rounoush

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:04 AM

Link or it didn't happen. :bigblush:
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#3 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:51 AM

Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning...

After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the concept.


As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands)

As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to.

"What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?"

Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen...

Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change.


As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another.
Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change!

This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true.

I'll try to explain this as best I can...

The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized.

Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle.
- Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space)
- Our mass is still the same
But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the singularity where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has a singularity of only a few miles across.

In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away...

Fascinating.



Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly.

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Great post mate :)

unfortunately not many people will be interested , they will be too busy arguing over the existence of a creator , or as Ned Flanders so famously put it ,"science is like a blabber mouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends ! Well i say there are some things we don't want to know ! Important things !
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#4 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:36 AM

January 15, 2010


"Are Black Holes Actually White?" Stephen Hawking's Theory says "Yes"





 Stephen Hawkings great discovery was that the mysterious regions in space we call black holes radiate heat through quantum effects. Hawking has said that "black holes are not really black after all: they glow like a hot body, and the smaller they are, the more they glow." Hawking's famous theory says that the temperature of a black hole varies inversely to its mass. The mathematician Louis Crane proposed a scifi-like scenario back in 1994 that billions of years in the future, after all the stars have burned out, that small black holes could be created to generate heat and guarantee survival of the species.




Meanwhile, up in Hanover, New Hampshire a bold team of researchers at Dartmouth College propose a new way of creating a reproduction black hole in the laboratory on a much-tinier scale than their celestial counterparts. The new method to create a tiny quantum sized black hole would allow researchers to better understand what physicist Stephen Hawking proposed more than 35 years ago: black holes are not totally void of activity; they emit photons, which is now known as Hawking radiation.
"Hawking famously showed that black holes radiate energy according to a thermal spectrum," said Paul Nation, an author on the paper and a graduate student at Dartmouth. "His calculations relied on assumptions about the physics of ultra-high energies and quantum gravity. Because we can't yet take measurements from real black holes, we need a way to recreate this phenomenon in the lab in order to study it, to validate it."
The researchers showed that a magnetic field-pulsed microwave transmission line containing an array of superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, not only reproduces physics analogous to that of a radiating black hole, but does so in a system where the high energy and quantum mechanical properties are well understood and can be directly controlled in the laboratory.
"We can also manipulate the strength of the applied magnetic field so that the SQUID array can be used to probe black hole radiation beyond what was considered by Hawking," said Miles Blencowe, another author on the paper and a professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth.
"In addition to being able to study analogue quantum gravity effects, the new, SQUID-based proposal may be a more straightforward method to detect the Hawking radiation," says Blencowe. Casey Kazan
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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

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#5 nucklehead

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:36 AM

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#6 unknown33429

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:39 AM

Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning...

After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread.


As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands)

As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to.

"What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?"

Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen...

Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change.


As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another.
Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change!

This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true.

I'll try to explain this as best I can...

The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized.

Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle.
- Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space)
- Our mass is still the same
But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the singularity where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has a singularity of only a few miles across.

In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away...

Fascinating.



Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly.



I think you're wrong.

The mass is still the same, but when it's compressed, the gravitational force increases exponentially, at least that's what Einstein argued, I believe. Gravity is not just related to mass.

Think about it like this: You put a light ball on your bed, and it would create a depression on your bed. now, if you were to put a smaller ball with the same weight, the depression created would be greater....it's a weird analogy, but that what they showed on Nova, a great show on PBS.

According to Stephen Hawking, the gravity is infact so great that once you are "sucked in" to the black hole, time stops. If you threw a watch in the black hole, assuming it didn't break from the great force, it would stop. Not because it's broken, but because time has stopped. He argued there can be no God that created the world before the big bang since it was essentially one black hole, because there was no "time" for a diety to create it.

Edit: Also, not all stars turn into back holes. Only a few do, some become dead stars etc.

Edited by unknown33429, 19 September 2012 - 06:00 AM.

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#7 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:36 AM

Another tidbit. Making a movie about one is box office poison. ;)


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#8 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:52 AM

So the question appears to be, "when a star collapses, does it's mass remain the same, or does it increase? Where does the extra mass come from?
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#9 goalie13

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:02 AM

Another tidbit. Making a movie about one is box office poison. ;)


It seemed so much more realistic when it first came out.
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#10 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:08 AM

I think you're wrong.

The mass is still the same, but when it's compressed, the gravitational force increases exponentially, at least that's what Einstein argued, I believe. Gravity is not just related to mass.

Think about it like this: You put a light ball on your bed, and it would create a depression on your bed. now, if you were to put a smaller ball with the same weight, the depression created would be greater....it's a weird analogy, but that what they showed on Nova, a great show on PBS.

According to Stephen Hawking, the gravity is infact so great that once you are "sucked in" to the black hole, time stops. If you threw a watch in the black hole, assuming it didn't break from the great force, it would stop. Not because it's broken, but because time has stopped. He argued there can be no God that created the world before the big bang since it was essentially one black hole, because there was no "time" for a diety to create it.

Edit: Also, not all stars turn into back holes. Only a few do, some become dead stars etc.

So the question appears to be, "when a star collapses, does it's mass remain the same, or does it increase? Where does the extra mass come from?


When a star collapses on its self its mass is exactly the same as it was when it was a full blown star.

Unknown, when this happens the gravitational force the object has on objects that are currently in our solar system is considered to be exactly the same. Since the distance between the black hole and earth is constant, and the mass of the two objects still remains constant, no trajectories would change at all! Basically since were now able to travel drastically closer to this gigantic mass, which is compressed to a tiny point, the distance between myself and the mass of the black hole (which is huuuuge) becomes soooooo small that then we would experience the effects of a black hole.
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#11 unknown33429

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:24 AM

When a star collapses on its self its mass is exactly the same as it was when it was a full blown star.

Unknown, when this happens the gravitational force the object has on objects that are currently in our solar system is considered to be exactly the same. Since the distance between the black hole and earth is constant, and the mass of the two objects still remains constant, no trajectories would change at all! Basically since were now able to travel drastically closer to this gigantic mass, which is compressed to a tiny point, the distance between myself and the mass of the black hole (which is huuuuge) becomes soooooo small that then we would experience the effects of a black hole.


I think that's where you are wrong.

Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now.

You are working within the basic laws of physics, but they get quite wonky when you deal with quantam mechanics etc. I don't claim to be expert in the area, but experts like Einstein, and Hawking seem to suggest the gravitational force changes. It is not within the law of physics the average person is familiar with.

It appears to be the case that it is not only mass and distance that causes gravity, which is what you are suggesting, but also affected by some other factors we are not familiar with.

Remember, Einstein suggested there were black holes before scientists ever saw evidence of one, based on his theories of physics, which are very esoteric, so applying the normal law we are familiar with doesn't work. Basically, most scientists in the field did not conclusively believe in the existence of the black hole (this is all very theoretical physics until recently), until they saw some information for the Hubble telescope that seem to be in line with what Einstein was talking about.

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.

Finally, what you and I are suggesting would both likely not occur, since earth is close enough to the sun to be destroyed by the supernova that precedes a black hole.

Edited by unknown33429, 19 September 2012 - 08:33 AM.

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Some fans overrate their players, and then there is this guy.

#12 GodzillaDeuce

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:46 AM

I think that's where you are wrong.

Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now.


force of gravity is measured inversely as the distance between the centres squared. the distance between the centre of the black hole sun (lol) and the centre of the Earth would be the same as before.

force of gravity remains the same

Edited by GodzillaDeuce, 19 September 2012 - 08:57 AM.

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well I'm sorry that gd is soo perfect


#13 unknown33429

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:27 AM

force of gravity is measured inversely as the distance between the centres squared. the distance between the centre of the black hole sun (lol) and the centre of the Earth would be the same as before.

force of gravity remains the same


I did not know that. I haven't done physics in a while, and most of what I'm saying is what I heard on TV. I could just be remembering it wrong, so don't quote me on any of this.

I am pretty sure black holes have greater gravitational force than the sun it originated from, but as to why that is true, I couldn't say since I don't remember it. I do remember that ball on the bed analogy, and that made the most sense to me. It goes further to say if you kept compressing the ball, the "depression" would continue to increase, but the increase closer to the ball is greater than increase further from it (I'm not sure about the italicized part). It essentially becomes like an upside down pylon.

Edit: I love the Soundgarden reference, but I don't think it would be called a "sun" anymore.

Edit 2: You are all using Newton's formula for gravity. Remember, Newton is taught to give you the fundamentals, but a lot of what he believed was wrong. You can destroy matter (E=mc2). I think atomic weapons work by destroying a small amount of mass to create a significant amount of energy

Edited by unknown33429, 19 September 2012 - 10:32 AM.

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Are you CRAZY??? Trade Green for ONE first round pick?? He's restricted after this season.... He WILL get an offer sheet for 7-8 million from a number of teams regardless if he plays another minute for us or not. That offer sheet would be worth 4 first round draft choices.


Some fans overrate their players, and then there is this guy.

#14 Bossy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

Stop using Newtonian Physics in relation to a black hole.
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#15 MadMonk

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

Edit 2: You are all using Newton's formula for gravity. Remember, Newton is taught to give you the fundamentals, but a lot of what he believed was wrong. You can destroy matter (E=mc2). I think atomic weapons work by destroying a small amount of mass to create a significant amount of energy


Newton is not wrong in the sense that Newtonian mechanics is an excellent approximation for what we encounter everyday, and it offers a much simpler explanation. As long as you are not going too fast (i.e. much slower than the speed of light), or not being too close to a massive object, then the results given by newtonian mechanics is as good as the results given by special/general relativity.

The "accuracy" of newtonian mechanics depends on the ratio between the Schwarzschild radius (which in turn depends on the mass of the star/black-hole) to the radius of separation. For the sun the Schwarzschild radius is 3km and as the earth is 150,000,000km away from the sun, the ratio is 2 in 100million. i.e. using newtonian mechanics is indistinguishable from general relativity in this case.
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#16 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:19 PM

I have so many things to express right now, but I'm in my first aid class and don't want to respond in detail over my iPhone. I'll respond at 5 ish pst.

It's nice to see a bit of intelligence on CDC for once

Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 12:21 PM.

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Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#17 Dittohead

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:24 PM

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist

Edited by Dittohead, 19 September 2012 - 12:36 PM.

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#18 unknown33429

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:13 PM

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist


Yea I said it earlier that the supernova would likely wipe out all the close planets including earth; maybe even all planets in the solar system, but I'm not too sure how powerful they are. I think (again i could be wrong), the black hole is formed during the supernova, so a lot of the energy from the explosion gets "sucked in" before it hits a lot of the planets.

Newton is not wrong in the sense that Newtonian mechanics is an excellent approximation for what we encounter everyday, and it offers a much simpler explanation. As long as you are not going too fast (i.e. much slower than the speed of light), or not being too close to a massive object, then the results given by newtonian mechanics is as good as the results given by special/general relativity.

The "accuracy" of newtonian mechanics depends on the ratio between the Schwarzschild radius (which in turn depends on the mass of the star/black-hole) to the radius of separation. For the sun the Schwarzschild radius is 3km and as the earth is 150,000,000km away from the sun, the ratio is 2 in 100million. i.e. using newtonian mechanics is indistinguishable from general relativity in this case.


So does the gravitational force remains constant with respect to earth once the sun turns into a black hole or not? I think you are saying it remains constant.

I don't have to do some research on this right now, but I should have time to look into it this weekend.
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Are you CRAZY??? Trade Green for ONE first round pick?? He's restricted after this season.... He WILL get an offer sheet for 7-8 million from a number of teams regardless if he plays another minute for us or not. That offer sheet would be worth 4 first round draft choices.


Some fans overrate their players, and then there is this guy.

#19 MadMonk

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

So does the gravitational force remains constant with respect to earth once the sun turns into a black hole or not? I think you are saying it remains constant.

I don't have to do some research on this right now, but I should have time to look into it this weekend.


If you are replacing the sun by a black hole with the same mass then yes, it remains constant if my understanding is correct.

Edited by MadMonk, 19 September 2012 - 02:06 PM.

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#20 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:26 PM

Oh universe, y u so fascinating?! :@
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#21 Offensive Threat

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist


The sun needs to use up a fairly large amount of its mass before it can go supernova. Aprox 1500 tons of mass per second is what I understand it to currently be processing. So 4 to 6 billion years from it will start to go supernova. Wont the earth be moving further and further away in its orbit as the sun losses mass?

Still I guess it will overtake our poor little planet either way. We are much too close to break free and become a rogue planet.First the sun will burn off the atmosphere, then evaporating all the water and finally burning it like a charcoal briquette till it eats it up.

If you read that future timeline post from 6 months ago or so it seems we may be in a position to change the fate of our solar system when the time comes. Maybe.
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#22 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

I think that's where you are wrong.

Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now.

You are working within the basic laws of physics, but they get quite wonky when you deal with quantam mechanics etc. I don't claim to be expert in the area, but experts like Einstein, and Hawking seem to suggest the gravitational force changes. It is not within the law of physics the average person is familiar with.

It appears to be the case that it is not only mass and distance that causes gravity, which is what you are suggesting, but also affected by some other factors we are not familiar with.

Remember, Einstein suggested there were black holes before scientists ever saw evidence of one, based on his theories of physics, which are very esoteric, so applying the normal law we are familiar with doesn't work. Basically, most scientists in the field did not conclusively believe in the existence of the black hole (this is all very theoretical physics until recently), until they saw some information for the Hubble telescope that seem to be in line with what Einstein was talking about.

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.

Finally, what you and I are suggesting would both likely not occur, since earth is close enough to the sun to be destroyed by the supernova that precedes a black hole.

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist


You guys are both absolutly correct; but this will never happen. The Sun is much too small to take the "black hole route" upon its death, instead it will turn into a white dwarf star.

Also, you are absolutely correct the earth will be obliterated by the explosion of the outer layer of the sun first.

However, this article assumes the impossible hypothetical situation where the sun just suddenly poof's into a black hole. The reason is because I'm trying to explain the effect of how the gravitational force the black hole has on objects does not ever change on the masses around it.

Most people believe that the planets will be drawn into the newly created black hole eventually getting sucked in, they believe the gravitational pull by the black hole suddenly increases dramatically. My point was to put emphasis on the point that this simply does not happen.

Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 08:26 PM.

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#23 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:03 PM

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#24 The Hornet

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

Go inside a black hole with Vsauce:


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#25 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:45 PM

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.


the video above explains this perfectly.

I love his explanation on the center of the universe, really well done. I quite like this guy.

Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 05:51 PM.

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#26 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:35 PM

You are all using Newton's formula for gravity. Remember, Newton is taught to give you the fundamentals, but a lot of what he believed was wrong. You can destroy matter (E=mc2). I think atomic weapons work by destroying a small amount of mass to create a significant amount of energy


mmm this is an odd example. The short answer is "yes, mass in this sense can be destroyed" but with the nuclear explosion example its more, "mass being translated into energy". The equation E=mc2 would still be valid in this example.

Yea I said it earlier that the supernova would likely wipe out all the close planets including earth; maybe even all planets in the solar system, but I'm not too sure how powerful they are. I think (again i could be wrong), the black hole is formed during the supernova, so a lot of the energy from the explosion gets "sucked in" before it hits a lot of the planets.


Well I'll try to give you a bit of perspective on just how insane supernova's are

When a star explodes, the supernova can emit as much energy in a very short time as the sun would in 10 billion years.

The Star Betelgeuse, located within Orion, is somewhere near the end of its life cycle. It could possibly explode tomorrow, or in millions of years. Although when it finally explodes, it will become so large and so bright that it will be viewed as a very bright large star in the sky, perhaps as bright as the full moon and visible in broad daylight.

Pretty impressive considering its approx. 430-640 light years from earth.

To answer your question... we would get freaking rocked if the sun exploded and so would all matter within 50 light years of us. In addition, Betelgeuse is large enough that it could possibly become a black hole, or a neutron star

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Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 08:08 PM.

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#27 mbal23

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 07:57 PM

Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning...

After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread.


As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands)

As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to.

"What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?"

Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen...

Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change.


As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another.
Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change!

This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true.

I'll try to explain this as best I can...

The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized.

Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle.
- Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space)
- Our mass is still the same
But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the event horizon where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has an event horizon of only a few miles across.

In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away...

Fascinating.



Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly.

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Actually since our sun isn't large enough to become a black hole and will expand in size and burn the whole planet.
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#28 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:09 PM

Actually since our sun isn't large enough to become a black hole and will expand in size and burn the whole planet.


You're absolutely right, read post #22

Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 08:12 PM.

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#29 Neufy161

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

January 15, 2010


"Are Black Holes Actually White?" Stephen Hawking's Theory says "Yes"





 Stephen Hawkings great discovery was that the mysterious regions in space we call black holes radiate heat through quantum effects. Hawking has said that "black holes are not really black after all: they glow like a hot body, and the smaller they are, the more they glow." Hawking's famous theory says that the temperature of a black hole varies inversely to its mass. The mathematician Louis Crane proposed a scifi-like scenario back in 1994 that billions of years in the future, after all the stars have burned out, that small black holes could be created to generate heat and guarantee survival of the species.




Meanwhile, up in Hanover, New Hampshire a bold team of researchers at Dartmouth College propose a new way of creating a reproduction black hole in the laboratory on a much-tinier scale than their celestial counterparts. The new method to create a tiny quantum sized black hole would allow researchers to better understand what physicist Stephen Hawking proposed more than 35 years ago: black holes are not totally void of activity; they emit photons, which is now known as Hawking radiation.
"Hawking famously showed that black holes radiate energy according to a thermal spectrum," said Paul Nation, an author on the paper and a graduate student at Dartmouth. "His calculations relied on assumptions about the physics of ultra-high energies and quantum gravity. Because we can't yet take measurements from real black holes, we need a way to recreate this phenomenon in the lab in order to study it, to validate it."
The researchers showed that a magnetic field-pulsed microwave transmission line containing an array of superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, not only reproduces physics analogous to that of a radiating black hole, but does so in a system where the high energy and quantum mechanical properties are well understood and can be directly controlled in the laboratory.
"We can also manipulate the strength of the applied magnetic field so that the SQUID array can be used to probe black hole radiation beyond what was considered by Hawking," said Miles Blencowe, another author on the paper and a professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth.
"In addition to being able to study analogue quantum gravity effects, the new, SQUID-based proposal may be a more straightforward method to detect the Hawking radiation," says Blencowe. Casey Kazan


ooo good find, the hypothesis as to why this happens is quite amazing.

Lets imagine we fall through the event horizon, that's the space where space moves faster then light. Deep inside the black hole is a place called the Inner Horizon, where the flow of space slows back down to the speed of light. And at that point all the matter and light that fell into the black hole begins to pile up. What actually happens as a result of this, stuff wanting out, stuff rushing in it under goes a tremendous collision and generates this minestrone of energy. At this certain moment when you hit the inner horizon there's this infinitely bright, blinding flash of light.

Edited by Neufy161, 19 September 2012 - 09:33 PM.

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#30 Neufy161

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:33 PM

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist


It wouldn't explode, the sun is way too small. It essentially would turn into a Red Giant, and expand. Then the outer layers would blow off slowly as it became a white dwarf star

Edited by Neufy161, 20 September 2012 - 12:33 PM.

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