Neufy161 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning... After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread. In addition, I assume a hypothetical impossible situation, I understand why it cant happen but am trying to make a point. ================================================================================ As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our universe. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands) As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The star would then explode as a supernova then potentially compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to. "What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?" Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen... Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change. As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another. Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change! This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true. I'll try to explain this as best I can... The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized... 1 meter from the core of the star. Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle. - Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space) - Our mass is still the same But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the event horizon where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has an event horizon of only a few miles across. In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away... Fascinating. EDIT: The Sun is much too small to take the "black hole route" upon its death, instead it will turn into a white dwarf star. Also, the earth will be obliterated by the preceding Red GIant and not be here when the black hole exists. However, this article assumes the impossible hypothetical situation where the sun just suddenly poof's into a black hole, skipping the expansion of a Red Giant. The reason is because I'm trying to explain the effect of how the gravitational force the black hole has on objects does not ever change on the masses around it. Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Link or it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning... After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the concept. As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands) As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to. "What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?" Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen... Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change. As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another. Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change! This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true. I'll try to explain this as best I can... The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized. Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle. - Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space) - Our mass is still the same But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the singularity where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has a singularity of only a few miles across. In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away... Fascinating. Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 January 15, 2010 "Are Black Holes Actually White?" Stephen Hawking's Theory says "Yes" Stephen Hawkings great discovery was that the mysterious regions in space we call black holes radiate heat through quantum effects. Hawking has said that "black holes are not really black after all: they glow like a hot body, and the smaller they are, the more they glow." Hawking's famous theory says that the temperature of a black hole varies inversely to its mass. The mathematician Louis Crane proposed a scifi-like scenario back in 1994 that billions of years in the future, after all the stars have burned out, that small black holes could be created to generate heat and guarantee survival of the species. Meanwhile, up in Hanover, New Hampshire a bold team of researchers at Dartmouth College propose a new way of creating a reproduction black hole in the laboratory on a much-tinier scale than their celestial counterparts. The new method to create a tiny quantum sized black hole would allow researchers to better understand what physicist Stephen Hawking proposed more than 35 years ago: black holes are not totally void of activity; they emit photons, which is now known as Hawking radiation. "Hawking famously showed that black holes radiate energy according to a thermal spectrum," said Paul Nation, an author on the paper and a graduate student at Dartmouth. "His calculations relied on assumptions about the physics of ultra-high energies and quantum gravity. Because we can't yet take measurements from real black holes, we need a way to recreate this phenomenon in the lab in order to study it, to validate it." The researchers showed that a magnetic field-pulsed microwave transmission line containing an array of superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, not only reproduces physics analogous to that of a radiating black hole, but does so in a system where the high energy and quantum mechanical properties are well understood and can be directly controlled in the laboratory. "We can also manipulate the strength of the applied magnetic field so that the SQUID array can be used to probe black hole radiation beyond what was considered by Hawking," said Miles Blencowe, another author on the paper and a professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth. "In addition to being able to study analogue quantum gravity effects, the new, SQUID-based proposal may be a more straightforward method to detect the Hawking radiation," says Blencowe. Casey Kazan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning... After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread. As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands) As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to. "What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?" Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen... Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change. As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another. Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change! This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true. I'll try to explain this as best I can... The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized. Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle. - Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space) - Our mass is still the same But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the singularity where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has a singularity of only a few miles across. In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away... Fascinating. Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Another tidbit. Making a movie about one is box office poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 So the question appears to be, "when a star collapses, does it's mass remain the same, or does it increase? Where does the extra mass come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Another tidbit. Making a movie about one is box office poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neufy161 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think you're wrong. The mass is still the same, but when it's compressed, the gravitational force increases exponentially, at least that's what Einstein argued, I believe. Gravity is not just related to mass. Think about it like this: You put a light ball on your bed, and it would create a depression on your bed. now, if you were to put a smaller ball with the same weight, the depression created would be greater....it's a weird analogy, but that what they showed on Nova, a great show on PBS. According to Stephen Hawking, the gravity is infact so great that once you are "sucked in" to the black hole, time stops. If you threw a watch in the black hole, assuming it didn't break from the great force, it would stop. Not because it's broken, but because time has stopped. He argued there can be no God that created the world before the big bang since it was essentially one black hole, because there was no "time" for a diety to create it. Edit: Also, not all stars turn into back holes. Only a few do, some become dead stars etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 When a star collapses on its self its mass is exactly the same as it was when it was a full blown star. Unknown, when this happens the gravitational force the object has on objects that are currently in our solar system is considered to be exactly the same. Since the distance between the black hole and earth is constant, and the mass of the two objects still remains constant, no trajectories would change at all! Basically since were now able to travel drastically closer to this gigantic mass, which is compressed to a tiny point, the distance between myself and the mass of the black hole (which is huuuuge) becomes soooooo small that then we would experience the effects of a black hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodzillaDeuce Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think that's where you are wrong. Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 force of gravity is measured inversely as the distance between the centres squared. the distance between the centre of the black hole sun (lol) and the centre of the Earth would be the same as before. force of gravity remains the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Stop using Newtonian Physics in relation to a black hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Edit 2: You are all using Newton's formula for gravity. Remember, Newton is taught to give you the fundamentals, but a lot of what he believed was wrong. You can destroy matter (E=mc2). I think atomic weapons work by destroying a small amount of mass to create a significant amount of energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neufy161 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I have so many things to express right now, but I'm in my first aid class and don't want to respond in detail over my iPhone. I'll respond at 5 ish pst. It's nice to see a bit of intelligence on CDC for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 So does the gravitational force remains constant with respect to earth once the sun turns into a black hole or not? I think you are saying it remains constant. I don't have to do some research on this right now, but I should have time to look into it this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Oh universe, y u so fascinating?! :@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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