Black Holes - Would Earth be sucked in?

[Offensive Threat]

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist

[Neufy161]

I think that's where you are wrong.

Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now.

You are working within the basic laws of physics, but they get quite wonky when you deal with quantam mechanics etc. I don't claim to be expert in the area, but experts like Einstein, and Hawking seem to suggest the gravitational force changes. It is not within the law of physics the average person is familiar with.

It appears to be the case that it is not only mass and distance that causes gravity, which is what you are suggesting, but also affected by some other factors we are not familiar with.

Remember, Einstein suggested there were black holes before scientists ever saw evidence of one, based on his theories of physics, which are very esoteric, so applying the normal law we are familiar with doesn't work. Basically, most scientists in the field did not conclusively believe in the existence of the black hole (this is all very theoretical physics until recently), until they saw some information for the Hubble telescope that seem to be in line with what Einstein was talking about.

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.

Finally, what you and I are suggesting would both likely not occur, since earth is close enough to the sun to be destroyed by the supernova that precedes a black hole.

[SkeeterHansen]

[The Hornet]

Go inside a black hole with Vsauce:

[Neufy161]

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.

[Neufy161]

You are all using Newton's formula for gravity. Remember, Newton is taught to give you the fundamentals, but a lot of what he believed was wrong. You can destroy matter (E=mc²). I think atomic weapons work by destroying a small amount of mass to create a significant amount of energy

[mbal23]

Apparently this is what I get up to at 2:00 in the morning...

After commenting on a few threads that are dedicated to astrophysics. I decided to make a short little tidbit on black holes; Why? because they're unbelievable, and most people don't really understand the concept. I assume the reader has a basic understanding of the gravity and black holes in this thread.

As far as the community of scientists are aware, a black hole is not an actual hole in space and time where if you were sucked into it, you could essentially pop out into another universe (multiverse) or separate part of our galaxy. (possible, but not the general idea as it stands)

As most of you are aware, when large stars are at the end of their life cycle. The core of the star would then compress down into a finite point; thus creating a black hole. But! This is a question most of you will think you know the answer to.

"What would happen to the solar system and trajectory of our planets if our Sun suddenly *poof* collapsed in on itself and became a small black hole?"

Well besides the fact that we would all freeze and die, nothing would happen...

Nothing would happen to the planets, their moons, the asteroid belt, or anything in our solar system. Nothing would be sucked into the mass, and no trajectories would change.

As we are all familiar with the theory of gravity, we'll start there. Gravity is calculated by the Mass of the two objects involved, and their distance from each other. So the gravitational pull the Sun has on the earth is dictated by each of the objects masses and their distance from one another.

Now when that sun suddenly *poof* turns into a black hole, its mass is still the same, the earths mass is still the same, and the distance is still the same... thus the core reason why the earth would continue on its original path and so would everything else. Mass and distance of the objects don't change!

This idea may go against what most of you assumed. Most people assume Black holes are millions of miles across, and when a star collapses in on its self, entire solar systems get obliterated as they get sucked into the black hole. This simply is not true.

I'll try to explain this as best I can...

The closer you get to an object, the less distance separates the two masses, and the gravitational force is increased. Lets say we scale the sun down to occupy a 1 meter radius to the core. As we move closer and closer to the sun eventually we would hit the surface... we cannot get any closer! At this point our gravitational pull would be maximized.

Now we take this Sun and compress all that mass into one tiny point of a needle.

- Its mass is still the same (just occupy's less space)

- Our mass is still the same

But! now we aren't maximizing the gravitational pull 1 meter from the suns core, were able to get closer and closer and closer; the gravitational force would get larger and larger and larger. Until eventually we would be sucked in. Somewhere between the black hole's surface (point of a needle) and the outer layer of where the sun was (1 meter radius) would be a point called the event horizon where not even light could escape. To put it into perspective; A black hole that has 3x the mass of the sun, has an event horizon of only a few miles across.

In conclusion, just because a star collapses in on its self, doesn't mean its gravitational force increases drastically from what it had when it was a star and begins sucking everything into it that was millions of miles away...

Fascinating.

Kind of a fun topic in an area not a ton of people are too familiar with. Hope I explained myself clearly.

[Neufy161]

Actually since our sun isn't large enough to become a black hole and will expand in size and burn the whole planet.

[Neufy161]

January 15, 2010

"Are Black Holes Actually White?" Stephen Hawking's Theory says "Yes"

 Stephen Hawkings great discovery was that the mysterious regions in space we call black holes radiate heat through quantum effects. Hawking has said that "black holes are not really black after all: they glow like a hot body, and the smaller they are, the more they glow." Hawking's famous theory says that the temperature of a black hole varies inversely to its mass. The mathematician Louis Crane proposed a scifi-like scenario back in 1994 that billions of years in the future, after all the stars have burned out, that small black holes could be created to generate heat and guarantee survival of the species.

Meanwhile, up in Hanover, New Hampshire a bold team of researchers at Dartmouth College propose a new way of creating a reproduction black hole in the laboratory on a much-tinier scale than their celestial counterparts. The new method to create a tiny quantum sized black hole would allow researchers to better understand what physicist Stephen Hawking proposed more than 35 years ago: black holes are not totally void of activity; they emit photons, which is now known as Hawking radiation.

"Hawking famously showed that black holes radiate energy according to a thermal spectrum," said Paul Nation, an author on the paper and a graduate student at Dartmouth. "His calculations relied on assumptions about the physics of ultra-high energies and quantum gravity. Because we can't yet take measurements from real black holes, we need a way to recreate this phenomenon in the lab in order to study it, to validate it."

The researchers showed that a magnetic field-pulsed microwave transmission line containing an array of superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, not only reproduces physics analogous to that of a radiating black hole, but does so in a system where the high energy and quantum mechanical properties are well understood and can be directly controlled in the laboratory.

"We can also manipulate the strength of the applied magnetic field so that the SQUID array can be used to probe black hole radiation beyond what was considered by Hawking," said Miles Blencowe, another author on the paper and a professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth.

"In addition to being able to study analogue quantum gravity effects, the new, SQUID-based proposal may be a more straightforward method to detect the Hawking radiation," says Blencowe. Casey Kazan

[Neufy161]

but in order for the sun to become a black hole it would have to explode 1st wiping out the planets or most of them no? there fore no the Earth would not continue to orbit as it would'nt exist

[RUPERTKBD]

It wouldn't explode, the sun is way too small. It essentially would turn into a Red Giant, and expand. Then the outer layers would blow off slowly as it became a white dwarf star

[:D]

In my eyes

Indisposed

In disguise, as no one knows...

Hides the face

Lies the snake

The sun In my disgrace

[Buddhas Hand]

A first: Astronomers measure radius of supermassive black hole

Sep 28, 2012 2:00 PM

It took an array of four radio dishes positioned around the globe and an international team of astronomers to do it, but it was well worth the effort: Astronomers have measured the radius of a supermassive black hole in the M87 galaxy that is 50 million light years away and 6 billion times more massive than our sun.

Update: As Erin Bow explains in the comments, the image above isn't actually new — it's from 2000. What's new is the study of the black hole, which doesn't yet have an image associated with it. Read on for more details about the study.

The new data was compiled by a research team led by astronomers at MIT's Haystack Observatory. To do so, they linked together radio dishes located in Hawaii, Arizona, and California, to create the "Event Horizon Telescope" that can see details 2,000 times finer than the Hubble Space Telescope. And by using the EHT, the astronomers were able to measure — for the first time — the radius of a black hole at the center of a distant galaxy.

Cosmological traffic jams and magnetically accelerated high-speed jets

The EHT allowed the team to catch a vivid glimpse of the glowing accretion disk and the massive plume that's emanating outwards.

Full size

As gravitationally bound matter makes its way closer and closer to the black hole's event horizon, its spin causes the black hole to spin itself. At the same time, the black hole collects so much matter that it can't swallow it all, thus resulting in a kind of cosmological traffic jam. It's this super-dense and super-fast collection of spinning debris that results in the shining light that appears just outside the event horizon.

The telescope also allowed the astronomers to determine that the particle jet shooting outwards from the heart of the galaxy was launched from a region very close to the black hole — one that's a mere 5.5 times larger than the estimated size of the event horizon (or radius) of the cosmological singularity.

And in fact, the presence of the jet proves that there's a black hole involved. The super-dense object that's causing this effect must occupy a small volume of space — one that's smaller than the jet's source region. In other words, a supermassive black hole.

The plume itself is caused by strong magnetic fields. They accelerate hot material (tight streams of electrons and other sub-atomic particles) along powerful beams above the accretion disk, resulting in a high-speed jet (launched by the black hole) that shoots out across the galaxy for hundreds of thousands of light-years and at nearly the speed of light (just for perspective, the Milky Way itself is about 120,000 light years in diameter). It's thought that these jets are a major influence on galactic processes, including the speed of star formation.

The smallest orbit

By studying the jet's trajectory, scientists are hoping to better understand the dynamics of black holes in a region where gravity is the dominant force. And in fact, the EHT will allow the scientists to confirm Einsteinian theories of gravitation. Specifically, astronomers can now estimate rate of the black hole's spin by measuring the size of the jet as it leaves the black hole. They're now able to do so because, for the first time ever, they can measure the smallest orbit just outside the event horizon.

In terms of next steps, the astronomers are going to expand the telescope array by adding radio dishes in Chile, Europe, Mexico, Greenland and Antarctica.

You can read the entire study at Science.

[DarthNinja]

I think you're wrong.

The mass is still the same, but when it's compressed, the gravitational force increases exponentially, at least that's what Einstein argued, I believe. Gravity is not just related to mass.

Think about it like this: You put a light ball on your bed, and it would create a depression on your bed. now, if you were to put a smaller ball with the same weight, the depression created would be greater....it's a weird analogy, but that what they showed on Nova, a great show on PBS.

According to Stephen Hawking, the gravity is infact so great that once you are "sucked in" to the black hole, time stops. If you threw a watch in the black hole, assuming it didn't break from the great force, it would stop. Not because it's broken, but because time has stopped. He argued there can be no God that created the world before the big bang since it was essentially one black hole, because there was no "time" for a diety to create it.

Edit: Also, not all stars turn into back holes. Only a few do, some become dead stars etc.

[DarthNinja]

I think that's where you are wrong.

Even if we were to work with your assumption, the distance has changed since the mass is now compressed, therefore the distance between the earth and outside of the sun is greater than the distance between the earth and outside of the "mass" at centre of the black hole. Under your assumption, earth would be hurled into space since the distance is now increased, because the mass is so compressed now.

You are working within the basic laws of physics, but they get quite wonky when you deal with quantam mechanics etc. I don't claim to be expert in the area, but experts like Einstein, and Hawking seem to suggest the gravitational force changes. It is not within the law of physics the average person is familiar with.

It appears to be the case that it is not only mass and distance that causes gravity, which is what you are suggesting, but also affected by some other factors we are not familiar with.

Remember, Einstein suggested there were black holes before scientists ever saw evidence of one, based on his theories of physics, which are very esoteric, so applying the normal law we are familiar with doesn't work. Basically, most scientists in the field did not conclusively believe in the existence of the black hole (this is all very theoretical physics until recently), until they saw some information for the Hubble telescope that seem to be in line with what Einstein was talking about.

A black hole isn't what you see in the movies, which looks like a wormhole. If you saw a black hole, the only thing you would notice is that stars behind it look a little distorted, because the light from stars behind it gets bent (but isn't completely sucked in like the light from the mass within the black hole). Black hole are basically invisible to the naked eye.

Finally, what you and I are suggesting would both likely not occur, since earth is close enough to the sun to be destroyed by the supernova that precedes a black hole.

[DarthNinja]

the more we know...the more we have to learn and understand.

This image depicts a simulation of a relativistic jet of particles shooting out of a black hole. (Avery E. Broderick/Waterloo University)

Researchers have, for the first time, crafted an image of the outermost edge of a supermassive black hole, and estimated how close matter can approach before arriving at the “event horizon”—the point of no return. They also report the first confirmed sighting of the origin of the “relativistic jets” that are believed to come out of the interactions between supermassive black holes and the matter that surrounds them.

Supermassive black holes are believed to reside at the center of virtually every galaxy. Because they are so massive and yet so small, rings of matter called accretion disks circle the black hole, their contents waiting to be sucked into the hole’s core like water circling the drain.

Astronomers have previously theorized that huge jets of material from the center of galaxies emanate out for incredible distances, and many have suggested that they are caused by the conversion of gravitational energy when matter from the accretion disks interacts with the powerful magnetic fields of the black hole. Because they shoot particles such long distances, these jets are believed to play an important role in the distribution of matter throughout the universe.

In the new study, published online Thursday in the journal Science, a large international team of researchers linked together telescopes from four different sites in Hawaii, California and Arizona to create a “virtual telescope” of unprecedented strength.

The telescope allowed the researchers to actually create an image of the edge of a supermassive black hole at the center of a galaxy called M87, which is 50 million light-years away from Earth.

The researchers were able to resolve that the jet’s base was about 5.5 times bigger than the radius of the black hole—about the expected size if it was coming from the black hole. The researchers assumed that the base of the jet would be roughly the same as the smallest accretion disk—the one closest to the black hole’s center.

The measurement also suggests that the black hole at the center of M87 is actually spinning—the accretion disk was so close to the black hole, the researchers found, that it could only be explained if the accretion disk and the black hole were spinning in the same direction.

In the future, the team plans to link together even more telescopes, hoping to be able to view the edge of the black hole for longer periods of time.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-jets-at-edge-of-black-hole-20120927,0,2012876.story?track=rss

The black hole in galaxy M87 pictured here shows jets of particles shooting out of it.

Like all invisible things that are only partly understood, black holes evoke a sense of mystery.

Astronomers know that the tremendous gravitational pull of a black hole sucks matter in.

They also know that the material falling in causes powerful jets of particles to shoot out of the black hole at nearly the speed of light.

But how exactly this phenomenon occurs remains a matter of conjecture because astronomers have never quite managed to observe the details. Well, now they have.

Sheperd Doeleman, an astrophysicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Haystack Observatory in Westford, and his colleagues, have taken the closest look to date at the region where matter swirls around a black hole.

By measuring the size of the base of a jet shooting out of the supermassive black hole at the centre of the M87 galaxy, the researchers conclude that the black hole must be spinning and that the material orbiting must also be swirling in the same direction.

Some of the material from this orbiting "accretion disk" is also falling into the black hole, like water swirling down a drain. The finding appears online today in Science.

For the past few years, Doeleman and his colleagues have been working to link up radio dishes around the world into a virtual telescope with unprecedented magnifying power, which would enable researchers to observe the immediate vicinity of the black hole in the heart of M87—a favorite target for astronomers, as it is one of the brightest objects in the sky.

So far, the researchers have linked radio dishes at three sites. That hasn't provided enough resolution to see all the way to the edge of the black hole.

But it enabled the researchers to measure the area through which the jet is being emitted.

The size of this emission region fits with only one particular theoretical model of how these jets form.

The base of the jet "reduces to the size we measured only when the black hole is spinning and the accretion disk is orbiting in the same direction," Doeleman said.

"What we find so exciting is that we are now finally able to measure structures so close to the black hole."

He and his colleagues hope to use the Event Horizon Telescope - the instrument being created by linking the radio dishes - to test "whether Einstein's theory of general relativity is valid at the one place in the universe where it might break down: the event horizon of a black hole."

The paper "is very interesting," said Meg Urry, an astrophysicist at Yale University who was not involved in the study.

"Measuring the launch point for the jet is absolutely critical for understanding how jets form, and indeed how jet energy is extracted from the black hole-disk system."

However, Urry points out, the conclusions rest on a number of assumptions that are "difficult to confirm"- such as whether the measured area does lie directly on top of the black hole rather than off to the side or elsewhere.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7743408/Black-hole-swirls-close-up/

[silverpig]

I think you're wrong.

The mass is still the same, but when it's compressed, the gravitational force increases exponentially, at least that's what Einstein argued, I believe. Gravity is not just related to mass.

Think about it like this: You put a light ball on your bed, and it would create a depression on your bed. now, if you were to put a smaller ball with the same weight, the depression created would be greater....it's a weird analogy, but that what they showed on Nova, a great show on PBS.

According to Stephen Hawking, the gravity is infact so great that once you are "sucked in" to the black hole, time stops. If you threw a watch in the black hole, assuming it didn't break from the great force, it would stop. Not because it's broken, but because time has stopped. He argued there can be no God that created the world before the big bang since it was essentially one black hole, because there was no "time" for a diety to create it.

Edit: Also, not all stars turn into back holes. Only a few do, some become dead stars etc.

[Sharpshooter]

That's not correct. If you compressed the sun (via some means) to become a black hole, the earth's orbit would not change.

<- astrophysics degree

[D-Bo7]

The real question is, if the moon was made of barbeque spare ribs, would you eat it?

I know I would! Heck, I'd have seconds! Then polish it off with a tall cool budweiser.

[Hugemanskost]

Bend over and see for yourself!