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Iranian girls beat up Iran cleric over dress code.


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#31 Humble Rodent

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:59 PM

By continuing to dress how they want. "I don't like what you're saying, so I'm going to beat you" is the wrong mentality to have, even when you're in the right.

From a fundamental standpoint I would agree. However simple passive rebellion is (most likely) a privilege these girls don't have, so I'm not sure if I would say that they are in wrong here.

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#32 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

From a fundamental standpoint I would agree. However simple passive rebellion is (most likely) a privilege these girls don't have, so I'm not sure if I would say that they are in wrong here.


They could have walked away. They could have ignored him. The fact that they were wearing those clothes is in-itself an act of passive rebellion.

#33 Pouria

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:21 AM

Women dont wear coverings indoors in the arab world either. They are not required when in the company of "relatives". Its nothing to do with any "change", its always been that way.

"

Well, some do have hijab indoors and you technically have to if you have company. Alone, they could do whatever but even in the company of relatives some have hijab. Although am saying, outdoors, the Iranian girls might be the least "conservative" out of all the other Muslim countries.

Indoors:

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Outdoors:
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Edited by Pouria, 21 September 2012 - 02:00 AM.

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#34 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:47 AM

They could have walked away. They could have ignored him. The fact that they were wearing those clothes is in-itself an act of passive rebellion.


Easy for you to say , living in a society where you are not persecuted ,and they live in one where women have been persecuted for over a millenia .
screw these religious freaks and their misogynist views

Iran: As spring rolls in, so do the religious, dress-code police


Friday Sep 21, 2012 4:50 AM PT
In the Islamic Republic of Iran, spring is in the air, and the fashion police are out in force.

No, not self-styled critics of celebrities’ wardrobes who offer catty comments in magazines or on style-and-fashion Web sites, but rather real law-enforcement officials whose job is to make sure Iranians are following the religious dress code their country’s authoritative, senior Muslim clerics have imposed on contemporary society.

What’s in? For women, at least, the more body coverage, the better. That means a practical, head-to-toe, home-to-office-to-night-out robe that shows off very little skin. Revealing only the face and the hands is considered acceptable.

What’s out? Tight coats, or showing too much hair or too much ankle. Too-tall heels definitely have to go…


Yalda Moaiery/REA/Le Figaro.fr

Photos from France’s Le Figaro: An Iranian police official (in black robe, right) apprehends two women who broke the government-enforced, Islamic dress code.

Le Figaro reports: “As with every year, as the lovely days [of spring arrive], Iranian authorities launch a campaign against women who do not vigorously respect to the letter the Islamic dress code.” The French daily offers a photo portfolio showing a female, Iranian dress-code monitor (in full, traditional black robe) at work, apprehending two inappropriately clad women.

The latest crackdown on dress-code violations, which also calls for men to don conservative threads, got started in earnest last weekend. However, this year, angry parents of some of the women who have been apprehended have been “unafraid of making their feelings clear to the police.” Notes Agence France Presse: “Even the overall head of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, who is appointed by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, urged police against heavy-handed actions…. ‘Hauling women and young people to the police station will have no use except to cause damage to society,’ the reformist Etemad Melli newspaper quoted Shahroudi as telling a meeting of local governors. ‘Tough measures on social problems will backfire and have counter-productive effects,’ he warned.” (AFP in the Gulf Times, Qatar; see also Le Figaro)

A separate AFP news report notes that the Iranian authorities’ dress-code compliance campaign “is more aimed at encouragement and Islamic guidance than coercion, with arrest a last resort if women show a reluctance to change their ways.” An Iranian policeman told the French news service’s reporter: “When we stop a vehicle [carrying an inappropriately dressed woman], we politely tell them to correct their hijab. If our advice is carried out, then we leave it at that….If not, and the female passenger or driver shouts back, then we will ask her for her car’s document, and we will stop her car and take her case to the police station.” (AFP in the Daily Times, Pakistan)


AP

Even the overall head of Iran’s judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, has suggested that the dress-code drive should not be too heavy-handed

Writing in Etemad Melli, columnist Masih Alinejad put the current dress-code compliance campaign on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad‘s desk. He wrote: “Mr. President, I wonder if what the police, supervised by your interior ministry, are doing to women stems from a misunderstanding?…Or have people’s major problems of injustice and poverty been resolved?”

Looking back to Ahmadinejad’s 2005 presidential-election campaign, columnist Alinejad reminded readers that the politician had asked Iranians to consider “whether the problem ‘in our country was two strands of women’s hair or fighting poverty, creating jobs and implementing justice?’”

Agence France Presse notes that Iran’s unemployment rate is now running at around 11 percent, and that two-thirds of the country’s population of 70 million is younger than 30 years old. Presumably, as the weather turns warm, some of those young Iranians would like to go out dressed in T-shirts, shorts – or stiletto heels?




Edited by The Ratiocinator, 21 September 2012 - 05:14 AM.

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#35 Dittohead

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:56 AM

Friday Sep 21, 2012 4:50 AM PT
In the Islamic Republic of Iran, spring is in the air, and the fashion police are out in force.



Spring?

#36 لني

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

Friday Sep 21, 2012 4:50 AM PT
In the Islamic Republic of Iran, spring is in the air, and the fashion police are out in force.



Spring?


Islamic calendar. :sarcasm:
Sent from my iPhone Canucks App

It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#37 Buggernut

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

I hope they use a knife next time.

#38 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:06 AM

Easy for you to say , living in a society where you are not persecuted ,and they live in one where women have been persecuted for over a millenia .
screw these religious freaks and their misogynist views

Iran: As spring rolls in, so do the religious, dress-code police


Friday Sep 21, 2012 4:50 AM PT
In the Islamic Republic of Iran, spring is in the air, and the fashion police are out in force.

No, not self-styled critics of celebrities’ wardrobes who offer catty comments in magazines or on style-and-fashion Web sites, but rather real law-enforcement officials whose job is to make sure Iranians are following the religious dress code their country’s authoritative, senior Muslim clerics have imposed on contemporary society.

What’s in? For women, at least, the more body coverage, the better. That means a practical, head-to-toe, home-to-office-to-night-out robe that shows off very little skin. Revealing only the face and the hands is considered acceptable.

What’s out? Tight coats, or showing too much hair or too much ankle. Too-tall heels definitely have to go…


Yalda Moaiery/REA/Le Figaro.fr

Photos from France’s Le Figaro: An Iranian police official (in black robe, right) apprehends two women who broke the government-enforced, Islamic dress code.

Le Figaro reports: “As with every year, as the lovely days [of spring arrive], Iranian authorities launch a campaign against women who do not vigorously respect to the letter the Islamic dress code.” The French daily offers a photo portfolio showing a female, Iranian dress-code monitor (in full, traditional black robe) at work, apprehending two inappropriately clad women.

The latest crackdown on dress-code violations, which also calls for men to don conservative threads, got started in earnest last weekend. However, this year, angry parents of some of the women who have been apprehended have been “unafraid of making their feelings clear to the police.” Notes Agence France Presse: “Even the overall head of the judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, who is appointed by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, urged police against heavy-handed actions…. ‘Hauling women and young people to the police station will have no use except to cause damage to society,’ the reformist Etemad Melli newspaper quoted Shahroudi as telling a meeting of local governors. ‘Tough measures on social problems will backfire and have counter-productive effects,’ he warned.” (AFP in the Gulf Times, Qatar; see also Le Figaro)

A separate AFP news report notes that the Iranian authorities’ dress-code compliance campaign “is more aimed at encouragement and Islamic guidance than coercion, with arrest a last resort if women show a reluctance to change their ways.” An Iranian policeman told the French news service’s reporter: “When we stop a vehicle [carrying an inappropriately dressed woman], we politely tell them to correct their hijab. If our advice is carried out, then we leave it at that….If not, and the female passenger or driver shouts back, then we will ask her for her car’s document, and we will stop her car and take her case to the police station.” (AFP in the Daily Times, Pakistan)


AP

Even the overall head of Iran’s judiciary, Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, has suggested that the dress-code drive should not be too heavy-handed

Writing in Etemad Melli, columnist Masih Alinejad put the current dress-code compliance campaign on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad‘s desk. He wrote: “Mr. President, I wonder if what the police, supervised by your interior ministry, are doing to women stems from a misunderstanding?…Or have people’s major problems of injustice and poverty been resolved?”

Looking back to Ahmadinejad’s 2005 presidential-election campaign, columnist Alinejad reminded readers that the politician had asked Iranians to consider “whether the problem ‘in our country was two strands of women’s hair or fighting poverty, creating jobs and implementing justice?’”

Agence France Presse notes that Iran’s unemployment rate is now running at around 11 percent, and that two-thirds of the country’s population of 70 million is younger than 30 years old. Presumably, as the weather turns warm, some of those young Iranians would like to go out dressed in T-shirts, shorts – or stiletto heels?


Last I checked, the guy wasn't trying to arrest them. He was just telling them they were doing something wrong due to his own (albeit stupid) moral convictions.

It's no different than a vegetarian telling you you're wrong to eat meat.

If I were standing on the street corner with a friend, and some super evangelical christian came up to me and started accosting us for wearing multiple fiber clothing, or having a tattoo or anything like that, would we have the right to beat him to the point where he required hospitalization? I'm an Atheist, and up until quite recently Atheists were oppressed all around the world, and still are in some parts. Does that give me the right to respond with violence to anyone who imposes their religion on me, even peacefully?

I hope they use a knife next time.


Wow. That's frightening. "Hey you're not following my religion's code." "Welp, I guess I better kill you."

That will turn out well.

#39 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:46 PM

Last I checked, the guy wasn't trying to arrest them. He was just telling them they were doing something wrong due to his own (albeit stupid) moral convictions.

It's no different than a vegetarian telling you you're wrong to eat meat.

If I were standing on the street corner with a friend, and some super evangelical christian came up to me and started accosting us for wearing multiple fiber clothing, or having a tattoo or anything like that, would we have the right to beat him to the point where he required hospitalization? I'm an Atheist, and up until quite recently Atheists were oppressed all around the world, and still are in some parts. Does that give me the right to respond with violence to anyone who imposes their religion on me, even peacefully?



Wow. That's frightening. "Hey you're not following my religion's code." "Welp, I guess I better kill you."

That will turn out well.


While I agree that the violence used against this man was harsh given the culture, I don't think we can ever realise the amount of anger and frustration these women must feel from a lifetime of oppression. I'm going to give them a pass on this one.
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#40 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:51 PM

While I agree that the violence used against this man was harsh given the culture, I don't think we can ever realise the amount of anger and frustration these women must feel from a lifetime of oppression. I'm going to give them a pass on this one.


It's one thing to lose control and hit someone. That's understandable, if not justifiable. It's another to gang up on someone and beat them to the point of requiring hospitalization.

Edited by CAPSLOCK, 21 September 2012 - 08:52 PM.


#41 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

It's one thing to lose control and hit someone. That's understandable, if not justifiable. It's another to gang up on someone and beat them to the point of requiring hospitalization.


To a person who lives freely in a free society, that sounds like sound advice.
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#42 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:02 PM

To a person who lives freely in a free society, that sounds like sound advice.


How is that advice? If anything it was a description.

#43 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:20 PM

How is that advice? If anything it was a description.


Poor choice of words I guess. Grammar issues aside, "your" hardly in any position to pass judgement.
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#44 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:23 PM

Poor choice of words I guess. Grammar issues aside, "your" hardly in any position to pass judgement.


Oh, I'm not? I guess I shouldn't judge those guys who stormed the embassy and killed those people. Or judge them when they stone a woman for not being a virgin. On account of where I live.

If I'm not allowed to disagree with it, why are you allowed to condone it?

#45 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:27 PM

Oh, I'm not? I guess I shouldn't judge those guys who stormed the embassy and killed those people. Or judge them when they stone a woman for not being a virgin. On account of where I live.

If I'm not allowed to disagree with it, why are you allowed to condone it?


If this were a case before a free court of law I have a hard time believing you would be found amongst a jury of their peers.
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#46 Bitter Melon

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:30 PM

If this were a case before a free court of law I have a hard time believing you would be found amongst a jury of their peers.


A jury of their peers would likely want them stoned or beheaded. What's your point?

#47 Donky

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:59 PM

Last I checked, the guy wasn't trying to arrest them. He was just telling them they were doing something wrong due to his own (albeit stupid) moral convictions.

It's no different than a vegetarian telling you you're wrong to eat meat.

If I were standing on the street corner with a friend, and some super evangelical christian came up to me and started accosting us for wearing multiple fiber clothing, or having a tattoo or anything like that, would we have the right to beat him to the point where he required hospitalization? I'm an Atheist, and up until quite recently Atheists were oppressed all around the world, and still are in some parts. Does that give me the right to respond with violence to anyone who imposes their religion on me, even peacefully?



Wow. That's frightening. "Hey you're not following my religion's code." "Welp, I guess I better kill you."

That will turn out well.


No, it's not like that at all.
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”-Sinclair Lewis

A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."-Albert Einstein

#48 Bitter Melon

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:17 PM

No, it's not like that at all.


Oh, okay. Don't refute anything I said. Just bump this thread to point out you disagree with the example I chose that my point isn't even contingent on.

Smart.

#49 Donky

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:33 AM

Oh, okay. Don't refute anything I said. Just bump this thread to point out you disagree with the example I chose that my point isn't even contingent on.

Smart.


Then do not make outrageous statements. To compare someone being harassed for being a vegetarian to someone who is being harassed in the fashion that they have been oppressed for their entire lives is ridiculous.
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”-Sinclair Lewis

A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."-Albert Einstein

#50 Bitter Melon

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 09:42 AM

Then do not make outrageous statements. To compare someone being harassed for being a vegetarian to someone who is being harassed in the fashion that they have been oppressed for their entire lives is ridiculous.


Then don't bump old threads to add pointless comments. Could I have chosen a better example? Yes. But that was the first thing that popped into my head of someone imposing their morality on others.

You reviving this thread because an example I chose (Which you apparently aren't even able to comprehend, as you're citing the opposite of what I said) that has no bearing on what was being discussed is ridiculous.

#51 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

Last I checked, the guy wasn't trying to arrest them. He was just telling them they were doing something wrong due to his own (albeit stupid) moral convictions.

It's no different than a vegetarian telling you you're wrong to eat meat.

If I were standing on the street corner with a friend, and some super evangelical christian came up to me and started accosting us for wearing multiple fiber clothing, or having a tattoo or anything like that, would we have the right to beat him to the point where he required hospitalization? I'm an Atheist, and up until quite recently Atheists were oppressed all around the world, and still are in some parts. Does that give me the right to respond with violence to anyone who imposes their religion on me, even peacefully?



Wow. That's frightening. "Hey you're not following my religion's code." "Welp, I guess I better kill you."

That will turn out well.


you comparing your PLIGHT as an athiest to the persecution women have experienced from the islamic religion makes me laugh my ass off , truly the idiots have taken over .

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#52 Bitter Melon

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:00 PM

you comparing your PLIGHT as an athiest to the persecution women have experienced from the islamic religion makes me laugh my ass off , truly the idiots have taken over .


Actually I'm not. I'm comparing individual scenarios. Your reading comprehension makes me laugh my ass off. Truly the idiots have taken over.

#53 Dral

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:38 PM

I would never admit to being beaten up by a girl.

Actually Vig don't Kill Dral, I believe him to mafia enough that I have dealt with him myself. 


#54 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:19 AM

Actually I'm not. I'm comparing individual scenarios. Your reading comprehension makes me laugh my ass off. Truly the idiots have taken over.


Actually you are .

in 1800 posts i have never felt the need to use this symbol :picard: , but you truly are a :picard:

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#55 Bitter Melon

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:34 AM

Actually you are .

in 1800 posts i have never felt the need to use this symbol :picard: , but you truly are a :picard:


Hmm, let me go find the part where I said "Atheists are just as oppressed as women in islamic countries."


Wait a minute.

I can't find it. Could it possibly be because I didn't say it? Well, I guess we'll never find out since you said I did.

What I did do was compare a hypothetical scenario to a real life scenario.


Do you want to discuss the report? That's perfectly fine. But it seems like right now you're just throwing out insults because you disagree with my examples. So if you're not going to add anything constructive, maybe you should just bugger off.

Also, if I'm a 'facepalm' (solid grasp on the fundamental parts of speech by the way) then you're a 'chafing'.

#56 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:44 AM

Hmm, let me go find the part where I said "Atheists are just as oppressed as women in islamic countries."


Wait a minute.

I can't find it. Could it possibly be because I didn't say it? Well, I guess we'll never find out since you said I did.

What I did do was compare a hypothetical scenario to a real life scenario.


Do you want to discuss the report? That's perfectly fine. But it seems like right now you're just throwing out insults because you disagree with my examples. So if you're not going to add anything constructive, maybe you should just bugger off.

Also, if I'm a 'facepalm' (solid grasp on the fundamental parts of speech by the way) then you're a 'chafing'.


No you did not .
and i do not want to discuss anything with some one as infantile as you appear to be .

and i did not see a face or a palm in the symbol i posted .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 25 September 2012 - 01:50 AM.

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#57 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:46 AM

Hmm, let me go find the part where I said "Atheists are just as oppressed as women in islamic countries."


Wait a minute.

I can't find it. Could it possibly be because I didn't say it? Well, I guess we'll never find out since you said I did.

What I did do was compare a hypothetical scenario to a real life scenario.


Do you want to discuss the report? That's perfectly fine. But it seems like right now you're just throwing out insults because you disagree with my examples. So if you're not going to add anything constructive, maybe you should just bugger off.

Also, if I'm a 'facepalm' (solid grasp on the fundamental parts of speech by the way) then you're a 'chafing'.


You should change your name to FIRETRUCK.
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