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#181 DeNiro

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

Schneider wasn't an off the board pick I'm pretty sure he was rated higher then dubnyk


Well either way, you don't typically see 4 goaltenders go in the 1st round.

I think alot of people were surprised we took a goalie first round when there were so many available that year in the second and third rounds.

Luckily we did though.
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#182 JimLahey

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

People take the "Experts" opinions as the gospel sometimes, but the truth is, is that even they can't Predict potential accurately all the time. While it may look like our prospect pool is very weak (and maybe it really is) you really never know who could surprise each year.


Corrado being our biggest and best surprise this year.

In the future, I can see us having a strong defensive game but could see issues up front - as it stands currently.

In the next five years, guys like Hutton, Price, Corrado, Connauton, McNally (pending the outcome of his situation), Sauve and Tommernes could be in the hunt for top six spots. Bieksa, Hamhuis and Garrison are under contract for another 4,4 and 6 years respectively and we can all assume Tanev and Edler will still be with us.

I hope we draft for offense this year, because in my optimistic opinion, our defense and goaltending should be solid in the future.
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#183 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

I enjoy your optimism.

I see a catch, and that is that (save Edler both staying and surprising) we do not have a true franchise defender. Add to this that such defenders are the hardest of all positions to fill by trade.

And its also possible, perhaps with Jensen, that we have a franchise forward to add to our three all star forwards. I do see the need to draft size up front and centres. But also every conceivable top flight defender...

Just my opinion.

Corrado being our biggest and best surprise this year.

In the future, I can see us having a strong defensive game but could see issues up front - as it stands currently.

In the next five years, guys like Hutton, Price, Corrado, Connauton, McNally (pending the outcome of his situation), Sauve and Tommernes could be in the hunt for top six spots. Bieksa, Hamhuis and Garrison are under contract for another 4,4 and 6 years respectively and we can all assume Tanev and Edler will still be with us.

I hope we draft for offense this year, because in my optimistic opinion, our defense and goaltending should be solid in the future.


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#184 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:53 PM

Corrado being our biggest and best surprise this year.

In the future, I can see us having a strong defensive game but could see issues up front - as it stands currently.

In the next five years, guys like Hutton, Price, Corrado, Connauton, McNally (pending the outcome of his situation), Sauve and Tommernes could be in the hunt for top six spots. Bieksa, Hamhuis and Garrison are under contract for another 4,4 and 6 years respectively and we can all assume Tanev and Edler will still be with us.

I hope we draft for offense this year, because in my optimistic opinion, our defense and goaltending should be solid in the future.


Yeah I hope we draft some offensive players too (In the early rounds) I would really like to see us pick up William Carrier with our 1st.

As for current D prospects I also think McEneny is quietly putting up a decent season, 14 Pts in 31 Games and only being -1 actually isn't bad IMO for a guy who was a walk-on and missed a full year of hockey, I could see him jumping up in that mix too if he can keep getting better.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 19 December 2012 - 11:54 PM.

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#185 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

I enjoy your optimism.

I see a catch, and that is that (save Edler both staying and surprising) we do not have a true franchise defender. Add to this that such defenders are the hardest of all positions to fill by trade.

And its also possible, perhaps with Jensen, that we have a franchise forward to add to our three all star forwards. I do see the need to draft size up front and centres. But also every conceivable top flight defender...

Just my opinion.


Do u have anyone in mind that you are looking at us taking in the upcoming draft?
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#186 DeNiro

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:47 AM

We need to get a top defenseman back in the Luongo trade IMO.

That's why names like Gudbranson, Gardiner, and even Kulikov have been rumored. Those are the type of top defenseman we need to be targeting.

If we could get a combination of Kulikov and Howden, or Gardiner and Colbourne, it would solve two problems with one trade. Of course more would have to be added on our end. I think Burke is desperate enough to get his number 1 though. We'll see about Talon.

Edited by DeNiro, 20 December 2012 - 12:52 AM.

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#187 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

Definitely has to be another forward, if anything the injuries to Sweatt and Rodin prove we have little in forward prospects coming up beyond Jensen, Kassian and Schroeder. Even with how Rodin/Sweatt were performing before their injuries, it was less than stellar. I say screw size and defense, instead snag a dynamic offense first forward.

I think Morgan Klimchuk or Kerby Rychel could drop to us, or go Finnish for a change and grab Artturi Lehkonen.

Klimchuk is point per game on a less than stellar Regina team. He's risen up the ranks, currently ranked 27 on 'Craig's list' and is not in the top 30 for ISS rankings. I think his stock will have risen by June.




Kerby Rychel is also point per game, playing in the OHL. He has 4 fighting majors already this season. He plays gritty and had a 41 goal, 74 point campaign last season. Only reason he is in the 20 range is his 94 birth year, but he was born in October so he's only just eligible this year.



Lehkonen is a bit undersized at 5'10'' 165. He's currently playing against men in the Finnish league, 2nd on his team in points with 22 in 32 games.




Let me stress again this year is DEEP. No reason we can't snag top level talent late in the 1st.
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#188 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

Let me stress again this year is DEEP. No reason we can't snag top level talent late in the 1st.


Definitely. It's just a matter of actually doing it. Assuming we pick 25th or later given we should end up in that area for the next few years at least..

I only checked to the 2004 draft and those picks have about a 50% chance of panning out.

2012 draft too early to tell. Same with 2011. 2010 we didn't even have a pick until the fourth; still too early to tell.

2009; we took Schroeder. All due respect to Jordan, 7 of the 8 players after him would have proven to be more valuable than he has to this point.

2008; you have Ennis, Carlson and Tikhonov.

2007; Perron, Brendan Smith of the Wings who should make the club and even Jim O'Brien on the Sens who may or may not pan out.

2006; Berglund and Foligno. Leland should at least end up as a back up.

2005; Cogliano, Niskanen, Downie.

2004; Schneider, Schultz, Fistric, Green and even Robbie Schremp (who may or may not have been a bust depending who actually tried developing him)


As much as I'd like to have a boatload of confidence in our drafting, it's been known to take a large dump in the bed.
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#189 DeNiro

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:21 AM

Gillis's drafting has been pretty straight forward for the first round. Take the best player available based on their ISS ranking.

That's what he did with Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, and Gaunce. And I would expect he'll do the same come next draft.
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#190 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

Unfortunately, for this conversation, I live in Oz these days.

Not much coverage to form opinions in Australia. Someone else pointed out that you cannot read clippings and box scores to actually form an opinion as to how someone really impacts a game.

So here on CDC some of favourite posters are guys like Ossi, yourself, DeNiro and certainly Avelanche who watch games, post on prospects and the Wolves and critique real value. I also like some guys for their entertainment value, and that they educate themselves on topics (even where i disagree); Gollumpus and Old News. But I think they watch less hockey? :rolleyes: For example I liked your assessment of Biggs and saw his game (aggressive, physical, over 200 lbs, skating and fore checking with the odd goal) as adding complimentary skills, in a position of need (RW) for our team.

But I am a qualified coach (not hockey, but have Canadian Cert 3 in theory, practical and technical, eligible to apply for national team jobs). I know how to weave and match physical abilities with talent and skills. It still leaves me needing scouts for opinions on prospects.

On paper I really like Ryan Pulock in Brandon. He xcored over 30 points as a 185 lb 16 year old rookie in junior and has put on 30 lbs since at 18. Kelowna always turns out good D, so I have my eyes on Madison Bowey also and everyone likes (but can't have) Seth Jones. Darnell Nurse??? Have you seen them play? All are big right side D, my focus.

In Europe Ristolainen could be a fabulous puck moving D, or Pulock's left side partner Eric Roy in Brandon...

I'm also curious about Wheaton for the Rockets. Can a 230 lb junior be a good thing?

I'm in Vancouver for a month; I should make a point of seeing Kelowna play...

Do u have anyone in mind that you are looking at us taking in the upcoming draft?


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 20 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

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#191 Langdon Algur

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:23 AM

We need to get a top defenseman back in the Luongo trade IMO.

That's why names like Gudbranson, Gardiner, and even Kulikov have been rumored. Those are the type of top defenseman we need to be targeting.

If we could get a combination of Kulikov and Howden, or Gardiner and Colbourne, it would solve two problems with one trade. Of course more would have to be added on our end. I think Burke is desperate enough to get his number 1 though. We'll see about Talon.


Gardiner and Colbourne seems optimistic. I'll settle for Franson and Colbourne, although with teh lockout do the Leafs even own Franson's rights, not sure how it works with RFA's?
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#192 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

Have to be optimistic; Colburne appears tracking into a Shaun Mathias type player. Not exactly the centre piece return you should expect for an all star goalie still close to his prime. No sense trading Lou if all we get is him and Franson who TO scored for a second round pick (and has yet to stick with either Nashville or the Laughs).

Bjugstad appears to be a Patrick Berglund at worst, perhaps the potential to be even better; a Joel Otto or Kesler calibre player as his upside. I'd be happy to trade Lou for Berglund in terms of value. Or Lou for Bjugstad and Mathias (who could fill Bjugstad's roster spot until he was ready).


Gardiner and Colbourne seems optimistic. I'll settle for Franson and Colbourne, although with teh lockout do the Leafs even own Franson's rights, not sure how it works with RFA's?


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#193 canucklehead44

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

Our prospects have always flown under the radar.

Kesler was never expected to be more than a third line checker. He went on to be one of the best two-way second liners in the game today.

Schneider was considered an off the board pick at the time. 3 goalies were chosen ahead of him who were all expected to be better (Schwarz, Dubnyk, and Montoya). And now he's one of the best young goalies in the game

Edler was relatively unknown when we drafted him, and now he's a 50 point defenseman.

Hansen is considered the ultimate gem pick in is draft year.

Tanev and Burrows were also unknown, undrafted players that came out of nowhere.

This team has not had a problem with its prospects being underrated. If anything, it's good in this market to have expectations low. Look how much pressure was put on Hodgson, and now he's not even on the team anymore. So doubt away, it's a good thing.


Kesler - 31 points in 40 games as an 18 year old and played 28 games in the NHL right after his draft year. He exceeded expectations obviously, but even as a defensive first player his offensive numbers blow our current NCAA forwards out of the water.

Schneider - 13-1 record, 1.90 GAA and .916 the year after we drafted him. Went uphill from there.

Hansen - 9th round pick but an "intriguing" pick at the time. Point per game player as a rookie in the WHL while playing with a lot of grit. Canucks fans had a reason to be excited.

Edler - Similar story to Hansen. 61 points in 74 games as a rookie in the WHL, including playoffs. He was also a +21.

Tanev - He was an elite level player in a low level league so he was hard to gauge.

Burrows - Bad example...he worked his way up. Never really considered a prospect.

Hate to say it, but our forwards look like a bunch of Andrew Saurers and Ilya Kablukovs. Not even a whole lot of future AHL-calibre talent. Even guys like Rai and Anthony who were decent junior players are abysmal in the ECHL.
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#194 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:55 AM

We gotta get away from thinking abut our needs right now when drafting. By the time they make the big leagues, we will have a new set of needs, almost guaranteed.
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#195 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

We gotta get away from thinking abut our needs right now when drafting. By the time they make the big leagues, we will have a new set of needs, almost guaranteed.


Which is why you always go BPA.
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#196 canucklax

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

We gotta get away from thinking abut our needs right now when drafting. By the time they make the big leagues, we will have a new set of needs, almost guaranteed.


Exactly
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#197 avelanch

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:28 PM

We gotta get away from thinking abut our needs right now when drafting. By the time they make the big leagues, we will have a new set of needs, almost guaranteed.

unless we somehow get a top 3 pick that is... then you can think more about the short term needs, seeing as they are more likely to step into the lineup while that need still exists.
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#198 nowhereman

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

On paper I really like Ryan Pulock in Brandon. He xcored over 30 points as a 185 lb 16 year old rookie in junior and has put on 30 lbs since at 18. Kelowna always turns out good D, so I have my eyes on Madison Bowey also and everyone likes (but can't have) Seth Jones. Darnell Nurse??? Have you seen them play? All are big right side D, my focus.

I have Rockets season tickets and, after seeing him grow and develop these past two years, I would LOVE to see the Canucks draft Bowey. The fact that he's a Rockets defenseman (meaning he'll have the best defensive CHL development around) is just another bonus.
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#199 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

I've brought this up on another topic. But it seems pretty inexcusable that the Canucks who have a WHL team in their own backyard, two teams in the Seattle area that's a 2 hour drive away, and a team you can visit by hopping a ferry in Victoria, and we don't seem to scout them much nor draft much from the Dub. Kelowna is known for developing quality defensemen yet we never draft from them.

We can also use later round picks to find gems in the BCHL as well. I'd have half a dozen scouts in the WHL and half a dozen scouts in the BCHL as well. There's no salary cap for scouting. Why not use every option available?
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#200 Gooseberries

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

I've brought this up on another topic. But it seems pretty inexcusable that the Canucks who have a WHL team in their own backyard, two teams in the Seattle area that's a 2 hour drive away, and a team you can visit by hopping a ferry in Victoria, and we don't seem to scout them much nor draft much from the Dub. Kelowna is known for developing quality defensemen yet we never draft from them.

We can also use later round picks to find gems in the BCHL as well. I'd have half a dozen scouts in the WHL and half a dozen scouts in the BCHL as well. There's no salary cap for scouting. Why not use every option available?

don't forget aboutthe gems that come out of the red deer rebels.
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#201 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:38 AM

I'll say it again..... The problem is the scouting department of the Canucks and the advice they're giving Gillis. Gillis can only go withthe advice he's given from his scout's. The first round picks the Canucks have made besides Jordan Shroeder have been good.
The orginisation needs to stop trying to hit home runs on these high risk high reward picks. Detroit has it figured it and that is because their scouting dept is strong.

Get rid of Smyl and ron delorme and get scouts with proven track records. I just do not think it's acceptable to be drafting so poorly when other teams with similar records to the Canucks, are drafting so much better. The Red Wings won the cup pin 08 and seem to be doing a great job in drafting and developing talent.

I hope I'm wrong and some of these drafted canuck players turn it around, such as Rodin, Connauton, Shroeder, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing so far.
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#202 Black Mountain

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:09 AM

I am the first one to say that our drafting over the years has been well below average. Teams like Detriot who everyone agrees has a geat drafting track record also know how to DEVELOP! their players properly something I feel the Canucks have struggled with over the years. High end talent (top 10 picks will say) still need to be developed properly but not as much as late round picks. I am a big Gillis fan but I have not felt since he took over the GM duties that most our prospects not have been developing. I don't want this thread to turn into a Hodgson rant but the handling of his injury is not how you help a young prospects career. Jordan Schroeder who earned a call up from the Wolves last year did't get a sniff.

Edited by Black Mountain, 27 December 2012 - 03:10 AM.

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#203 yogolol

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

I am the first one to say that our drafting over the years has been well below average. Teams like Detriot who everyone agrees has a geat drafting track record also know how to DEVELOP! their players properly something I feel the Canucks have struggled with over the years. High end talent (top 10 picks will say) still need to be developed properly but not as much as late round picks. I am a big Gillis fan but I have not felt since he took over the GM duties that most our prospects not have been developing. I don't want this thread to turn into a Hodgson rant but the handling of his injury is not how you help a young prospects career. Jordan Schroeder who earned a call up from the Wolves last year did't get a sniff.

But he was going to get a huge sniff this year if there wasn't a lockout, I'm pretty sure Gillis wanted to put Schroeder in Kesler spot to start the season.
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#204 mrsasaki

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

Why do people expect us to turn every single draftee into an NHL star? Not everyone can be like Detroit. Having that kind of scouting/developing is a huge gift, not every team is going to produce nhl players at the rate detroit does.
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#205 eretz canucks

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:59 PM

if we managed to keep our first rounders we would have a cup by now.

-Luc Bourdon-my heart breaks for what happened, but he would have been a great player with Hamhuis on our top pair-maybe even norris calibre.

-umberger- off loaded for nothing- would have given us great bottom 6 grit, top 6 upside
-grabner- more effective than raymond,

u add the first two into our lineup we are a way better team

our drafting has been ok, but we have lost 3 4 first rounders for not much return over the past few years.
-luc bourdon
-umberger for rucinsky
-grabner and first for ballard
-2nd and 3rd for bernier...

moral of the story, keep your first and 2nd rounders,
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#206 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:03 PM

Hmmmn? <_<

if we managed to keep our first rounders we would have a cup by now.

-Luc Bourdon-my heart breaks for what happened, but he would have been a great player with Hamhuis on our top pair-maybe even norris calibre.

-umberger- off loaded for nothing- would have given us great bottom 6 grit, top 6 upside
-grabner- more effective than raymond,

u add the first two into our lineup we are a way better team

our drafting has been ok, but we have lost 3 4 first rounders for not much return over the past few years.
-luc bourdon
-umberger for rucinsky
-grabner and first for ballard
-2nd and 3rd for bernier...

moral of the story, keep your first and 2nd rounders,


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 28 December 2012 - 12:23 PM.

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#207 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Fair dinkum point, and I reckon with Kassian, Jensen and Gaunce in the pipeline I believe we need to be stocking up on D prospects!

Maybe this year we can make up for it? Kelowna has at least two guys we can look at this year (Bowey if we move up and Wheaton), besides Jones Portland has Hanson with sleeper potential, Brandon has stud Pulock...

I've brought this up on another topic. But it seems pretty inexcusable that the Canucks who have a WHL team in their own backyard, two teams in the Seattle area that's a 2 hour drive away, and a team you can visit by hopping a ferry in Victoria, and we don't seem to scout them much nor draft much from the Dub. Kelowna is known for developing quality defensemen yet we never draft from them.

We can also use later round picks to find gems in the BCHL as well. I'd have half a dozen scouts in the WHL and half a dozen scouts in the BCHL as well. There's no salary cap for scouting. Why not use every option available?


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#208 mrsasaki

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

-Luc Bourdon-my heart breaks for what happened, but he would have been a great player with Hamhuis on our top pair-maybe even norris calibre.

If Luc was still with us, I highly doubt we would have Hamhuis, and we would probably still have Mitchell
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#209 avelanch

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:34 PM

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Edited by avelanch, 02 January 2013 - 07:19 AM.

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#210 Zoolander

Zoolander

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:51 PM

Gaunce is having an amazing season after returning from his injury. Him and Jensen look like they'll be beauties, so do Corrado and Tanev. Being one of the only Wolves with a positive +/- says something, and I can see Corrado turning into a Bieksa-like player both on the ice (two-way player) and off the ice with his character.
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My 2014 Draft wishlist: 1st rd: Draisaitl, Virtanen, Scherbak. 2nd rd: Brendan Lemieux, Thatcher Demko (Goalie)
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Future Canucks top 6:
Shinkaruk-Draisaitl-Scherbak
Virtanen-Horvat-Jensen





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