Ballisticsports. Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Maybe if Bettman pulls this stunt tonight, He would be canned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Baggins I can tell you have never worked in a large organization nor studied management/business. The only goal as you call it (it's more like a mandate) is for Bettman to grow profits and keep the league healthy. He isn't micro managed by the hodge podge of owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bettman has transformed a miilion dollar business into a billion dollar business. Why the hell would the owners fire him? At the begining of the lockout, I thought Bettman was to blame. Mob-mentality, I guess. But after seeing everything unflold and educating myself far more thoroughly on the whole process, I'm less prone to point the finger at Bettman. I think the Fehr brothers should shoulder most of the blame for this mess. The players knew exactly what they were getting themselves into, when they fired Kelly and hired Fehr, and now we're in for a long winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 And I can tell you haven't paid much attention. How many times have I mentioned the "mandate" given Bettman when he was hired? Which was to EXPAND THE MARKET and REGAIN A NATIONAL US TV DEAL. If you've studied business maybe you understand what "expand the market" means. Now, isn't a "mandate" basically the same as "goals"? Don't they both have a set level of achievement attached? Perhaps you should focus more on the meat of the subject instead of nitpicking the terminology. Do you honestly think Bettman has gone into these negotiations without a clear "mandate" or set of "goals" from management? You do have it right that Bettman isn't micromanaged when it comes to the daily running of the league. But if you think he's deciding something as important as the CBA without a clear agenda from the owners you're higher than an east end crack whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 With a hodge podge of owners with conflicting needs and wants you can't get a clear agenda if you are talking about very specific points. What you do get is general or basic agreement of what that agenda is - which in this case is we want at least a 50 50 split. The details are left up to Bettman and an appointed team to work out. This type of system is a must as I said with such a disparate group and what it does result in is the chief guy and his team having a massive amount influence over things. This of course was in response to your suggestion that Bettman does what he is told, which is not true at all. He gets played a bit but he also is the conductor of the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 With a hodge podge of owners with conflicting needs and wants you can't get a clear agenda if you are talking about very specific points. What you do get is general or basic agreement of what that agenda is - which in this case is we want at least a 50 50 split. The details are left up to Bettman and an appointed team to work out. This type of system is a must as I said with such a disparate group and what it does result in is the chief guy and his team having a massive amount influence over things. This of course was in response to your suggestion that Bettman does what he is told, which is not true at all. He gets played a bit but he also is the conductor of the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 How he achieves what the owners want is up to him, but the ultimate mandate/goals are set out by the owners. All the major decisions are still made by the majority rule. This isn't to say Bettman doesn't have input, just that ultimately all the major decisions are from the owners. The owners vote on rule changes. The owners vote on a lockout. The owners vote on a new CBA. Do you honestly believe Bettman goes into the CBA negotiations without a clue as to what the majority of owners want out of it? Believe me, there will be more than one item (50/50 split) on the agenda he's given. He'll also know what the priorities are. It's rather pointless going into negotiations without a solid picture of what the "hodgepodge" expects out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Emotionalism rules the day for many on here that do not want to deal in the mundaine objectives of business. That is to much like work. Totally agree that Bettman has a clear understanding of ownership's objectives. For all those who think Bettman is the problem it is easier to think that than trying to understand what ownership's objectives are. Do people actually think that Bettman sits down at the table and wings it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Bettman is the one who decides HOW he goes about achieving those objectives, he is also the visible face of the league so the public perception of the league is based on his attitude and integrity (or lack of). There is no hope of ever achieving labour peace with such an untrustworthy, arrogant and confrontational leader, time for the owners to step up and realize that Ken Dryden would be a much better face of the league and would achieve a lot more in terms of a working relationship with the players, that is the main thing the NHL needs, not a labour war at the end of every CBA. Remember the old saying? You catch a lot more flies with Honey than you do with Vinegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpuncher Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I find it amusing that there are people out there with the notion that Gary Bettman is doing a good job based on the growth of the NHL the last 2 decades. The sports markets in general have grown in spite of the incompetence of its commissioners. The players really have made and grown the game not old men in suits. Put it this way, if you were to inherit your parents house 20 years ago and lived it until now and the value of your home goes up 500 percent does that make you a good businessman or lucky to inherit a well oiled financial machine. The best way to compare Gay Bettman's performance is to compare what has happened with the rest of the professional sports leagues. The NHL is way behind the NBA,MLB and the NFL when it comes to revenue and overall growth despite all the problems off the court/field. The NHL is lagging behind all these leagues for a reason, incompetent leadership. The owners have some to blame for this but the biggest mistake they made was to keep the most hated commish in the history of sports. The fans hate him and the players even more and probably some of the owners do as well but with the few of the owners like Jeremy Jacobs in Boston(gee I wonder why they won the cup) he is like a cockroach you can never get rid of. The next 2 weeks should seal Gary Bettman's fate if there is no deal done by Thanksgiving and the season is lost and that might be the stake in the heart that finally kills the vampire known as Gary Bettman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Question should be what will it take Fehr brothers to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The next 2 weeks should seal Gary Bettman's fate if there is no deal done by Thanksgiving and the season is lost and that might be the stake in the heart that finally kills the vampire known as Gary Bettman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGillis58 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The only thing we can do is pray for Bettman to retire. How old is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 My suspicions as well. The owners are expecting him to make a deal. His game of swapping revenue demands for contractual ones has essentially been one of zero movement. He's forced things into a stalemate, then not been smart enough to get them out. When your lockout has made you a billion dollars in salary money back without losing any games, you don't then go for 2 billion at the cost of a season. What a tosspot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 You have well established your concept of negociation is concede to the NHLPA. I suggest that Bettman does not have the latitude you seem to think he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpuncher Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Question should be what will it take Fehr brothers to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Based on what exactly? The Fehr bros have been hired on in the last 2 years with no history of the NHL work stoppages whatsoever. Gary Bettman no matter who he is worked with has a history of work stoppages so who is the bigger problem here, someone like the Donald Fehr who hasn't even taken a paycheck since the lockout began or a megalomaniacal commish who clearly has Napolean envy. Gary Bettman has always been the one constant for when things go wrong and instead of admitting this he continues to spin his BS on to other people. I suggest you listen to Ian White's interview with the Detroit free press for what he says cannot be summed up any better. http://espn.go.com/n...y-bettman-idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yes. Teach the players/kids a lesson in real world reality. Fire that union. Cause that's how things work in the real world - and then allow the replacement players to create a new one... The NHL would still own the big silver chalice. They'd still own these abstract entertainment entities - the identity and continuity may be fractured, but they'd still own the jerseys and logos, and five or ten years in the future, there may be a semblance of the on-ice product. Forget that identiy is what it's all based upon...people won't notice, they'll forget. In the meantime, they could charge $16 a ticket in the strong markets, because that's how things work in the real world - where prices are determined by what people will actually pay for the generic replacement product - nevetheless, in the meantime, they could call the AHL the "NHL" and dress it up as if were. The NHL in the spirit of inter-league parity, could compete with a gaggle of other professional hockey leagues that now rival the NHL as the world's best talent disperses across the globe - and see the same thing happen where young talent is concerned, as the next Ovechkin, Datsyuk, etc are drafted and sign in the KHL, the next generation of Sedins or Zetteberg in the SEL, etc. But that won't happen. Everyone knows there's no money in Switzerland, Sweden, etc. In the end, if you want to sell hockey, the real deal is in Arizona or the panhandle. Owners could find other ways to compensate themselves for the Titanic losses, as they watch their franchise valuations which currenly sit at $7 or 8 billion plummet to fractions. Craigslist - for sale: the Columbus ReJackets... will consider a trade for a Major Indoor Soccer League franchise. The billion at stake breaking the PA was worth it. The NHL could make due after their current sponsorship and broadcast deals fall into line with what arena football commands. The more than 8,000 fans that attend the average arena football game is actually not far off some current NHL teams.... The NHL would have the satisfaction, however, of generally having taught them powerless players a lesson - that is, unless something resembling the international nature of soccer were to develop - the reality of multiple professional leagues in various nations (the reality and infrastructure of which already exists, salivating at the possibility of "firing" the NHLPA) and possibility of an international "World Cup" of Hockey developing... I'd bet there wouldn't really be any interest though....Who would invest in that? The NHL enjoys.../ enjoyed a monopoly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yes. Teach the players/kids a lesson in real world reality. Fire that union. Cause that's how things work in the real world - and then allow the replacement players to create a new one... The NHL would still own the big silver chalice. They'd still own these abstract entertainment entities - the identity and continuity may be fractured, but they'd still own the jerseys and logos, and five or ten years in the future, there may be a semblance of the on-ice product. Forget that identiy is what it's all based upon...people won't notice, they'll forget. In the meantime, they could charge $16 a ticket in the strong markets, because that's how things work in the real world - where prices are determined by what people will actually pay for the generic replacement product - nevetheless, in the meantime, they could call the AHL the "NHL" and dress it up as if were. The NHL in the spirit of inter-league parity, could compete with a gaggle of other professional hockey leagues that now rival the NHL as the world's best talent disperses across the globe - and see the same thing happen where young talent is concerned, as the next Ovechkin, Datsyuk, etc are drafted and sign in the KHL, the next generation of Sedins or Zetteberg in the SEL, etc. But that won't happen. Everyone knows there's no money in Switzerland, Sweden, etc. In the end, if you want to sell hockey, the real deal is in Arizona or the panhandle. Owners could find other ways to compensate themselves for the Titanic losses, as they watch their franchise valuations which currenly sit at $7 or 8 billion plummet to fractions. Craigslist - for sale: the Columbus ReJackets... will consider a trade for a Major Indoor Soccer League franchise. The billion at stake breaking the PA was worth it. The NHL could make due after their current sponsorship and broadcast deals fall into line with what arena football commands. The more than 8,000 fans that attend the average arena football game is actually not far off some current NHL teams.... The NHL would have the satisfaction, however, of generally having taught them powerless players a lesson - that is, unless something resembling the international nature of soccer were to develop - the reality of multiple professional leagues in various nations (the reality and infrastructure of which already exists, salivating at the possibility of "firing" the NHLPA) and possibility of an international "World Cup" of Hockey developing... I'd bet there wouldn't really be any interest though....Who would invest in that? The NHL enjoys.../ enjoyed a monopoly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yes. Teach the players/kids a lesson in real world reality. Fire that union. Cause that's how things work in the real world - and then allow the replacement players to create a new one... The NHL would still own the big silver chalice. They'd still own these abstract entertainment entities - the identity and continuity may be fractured, but they'd still own the jerseys and logos, and five or ten years in the future, there may be a semblance of the on-ice product. Forget that identiy is what it's all based upon...people won't notice, they'll forget. In the meantime, they could charge $16 a ticket in the strong markets, because that's how things work in the real world - where prices are determined by what people will actually pay for the generic replacement product - nevetheless, in the meantime, they could call the AHL the "NHL" and dress it up as if were. The NHL in the spirit of inter-league parity, could compete with a gaggle of other professional hockey leagues that now rival the NHL as the world's best talent disperses across the globe - and see the same thing happen where young talent is concerned, as the next Ovechkin, Datsyuk, etc are drafted and sign in the KHL, the next generation of Sedins or Zetteberg in the SEL, etc. But that won't happen. Everyone knows there's no money in Switzerland, Sweden, etc. In the end, if you want to sell hockey, the real deal is in Arizona or the panhandle. Owners could find other ways to compensate themselves for the Titanic losses, as they watch their franchise valuations which currenly sit at $7 or 8 billion plummet to fractions. Craigslist - for sale: the Columbus ReJackets... will consider a trade for a Major Indoor Soccer League franchise. The billion at stake breaking the PA was worth it. The NHL could make due after their current sponsorship and broadcast deals fall into line with what arena football commands. The more than 8,000 fans that attend the average arena football game is actually not far off some current NHL teams.... The NHL would have the satisfaction, however, of generally having taught them powerless players a lesson - that is, unless something resembling the international nature of soccer were to develop - the reality of multiple professional leagues in various nations (the reality and infrastructure of which already exists, salivating at the possibility of "firing" the NHLPA) and possibility of an international "World Cup" of Hockey developing... I'd bet there wouldn't really be any interest though....Who would invest in that? The NHL enjoys.../ enjoyed a monopoly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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