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Christy Clark announces plans to replace George Massey Tunnel


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#1 key2thecup

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

As long as it's not tolled...



Christy Clark announces plans to replace George Massey Tunnel
Too early to decide between bridge or new tunnel, premier says


METRO VANCOUVER - B.C.'s premier has announced plans to replace the aged and gridlocked George Massey tunnel, saying it would help ease one of the worst traffic bottlenecks in the province.
Premier Christy Clark said the project, which would take at least 10 years to plan and design, would help accommodate another 300,000 people in the region by 2040.

"Talk to anyone who drives through the George Massey Tunnel on their daily commute and they'll tell you it's a huge headache," Clark said at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention Friday, adding a new crossing would also relieve an "economic bottleneck" for Port Metro Vancouver.
"We have to make sure we as a provincial government are investing in the necessary infrastructure as part of the Pacific Gateway."

Clark said she plans to work with Delta and Richmond mayors on a replacement crossing, which could be either another tunnel or a bridge. It's still way too early, she added, to say if it would be tolled.

Delta Mayor Lois Jackson said she was delighted with the announcement Friday.
"[The provincial government] certainly heard me and heard what the community has to say," she said in a phone interview from London, England.

Delta has long lobbied for improvements or a replacement for the 53-year-old tunnel, predicting the Deltaport expansion will result in another 1,700 daily truck trips through the tunnel within five years.
Jackson has also warned the situation will be further compounded as the Tsawwassen First Nation pursues plans for a major commercial centre, and more drivers and ferry traffic divert to the tunnel to avoid paying tolls on the Golden Ears and new Port Mann bridges.

About 82,000 drivers use the tunnel daily on their commute to and from downtown Vancouver.
A final draft report on the economic impacts to Delta, conducted by Steer Davies Gleave for the corporation, suggests the tunnel is already operating at capacity during peak periods, and estimates the cost of congestion on the tunnel would rise to between $74 million and $173 million by 2041, from $27 million to $66 million in 2008.

The report also notes the tunnel is one of the worst areas for accidents on Highway 99. With no hard shoulders for stalled or disabled vehicles to move to, collisions or incidents can have a significant effect on tailbacks and congestion, further compounding the unreliability of travel time.

The draft report follows a 400-page Canadian Environmental Assessment Act screening report earlier this year for Port Metro Vancouver's Deltaport Terminal, Road and Rail Improvement Project. That report said the port expansion project could result in an additional 1,300 truck trips per day, for a total of 4,700 trucks into and out of the port, once the terminal reaches capacity in 2017.
A Delta staff report said of those trips, about 35 per cent — or another 450 trucks — would use the tunnel, bringing to 1,700 the daily total of two-way truck trips using the crossing.

Jackson wouldn't say whether she would prefer a bridge or a tunnel as a replacement, but added: "I don't happen to be an engineer but tunnels don't seem to be in vogue right now," she said. "We'll have to see what the engineers say."

Meanwhile, other Metro Vancouver mayors say while they welcome the replacement of the George Massey tunnel, the province should first tackle the root of the gridlock issue: getting people out of their cars and onto transit.

Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie said that while he would like to start planning for the new crossing, the province has to work immediately on reducing the number of cars that continue to choke pressure points on the highway and on the tunnel's on and off ramps.

"If the government wants to do something to address the issue now they would be announcing additional sustainable funding for TransLink to provide buses," Brodie said. "What we need is a solution right now and the solution is to get more buses."

Both Brodie and Langley Mayor Peter Fassbender said the province should be looking at road pricing — charging drivers a fee for the distance travelled — to generate money for transit and get people out of their cars. Brodie noted a new tunnel or bridge is going to cost at least as much as the new $3.3-billion Port Mann, and will likely be tolled, considering the province has done so with both the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges.

"It gives you an idea of the magnitude of the issue," he said.

TransLink has had to postpone several transportation projects, arguing it doesn't have the money.
Metro Vancouver mayors have been in negotiations with the province on finding sustainable funding options, but were frustrated after the province rejected two of their proposals: using the carbon tax revenue for transit, and instituting a vehicle levy. Mayors can now use only gas taxes, fares and property taxes to raise money for transit.

NDP MLA Bruce Ralston argued the Liberal announcement is so far in the future that it only amounts to a "declaration of intention."


http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz28CjqSkNZ




While there at it highway 91 needs to become at least 3, at best 4 lanes..... its a joke that it is 2 lanes going onto/off the Alex Fraser bridge.. f is it ever annoying in the morning.

Edited by key2thecup, 02 October 2012 - 08:53 PM.

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#2 Sharpshooter

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

I suspect it'll be tolled.
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#3 Jägermeister

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

I'd expect it to be tolled, just as it should be.

Either way, its about time they did something there, that whole section is a nightmare.

Edited by Jagermeister, 02 October 2012 - 09:01 PM.

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#4 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

Why do we always look at trucking for shipping? Why don't we use existing rail lines and ship to industrial parks for distribution? We rely way too much on trucking, we need better and more efficient options.
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#5 The Wizard of AZ

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:08 PM

Christy Clark's such a toll
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#6 thedestroyerofworlds

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

It's nice that she's proposing an NO_BRAINER scheme that will more than likely not even finish the planning stages when her and the Libs get booted out nex election.  She has been ALL STYLE and NO SUBSTANCE.  

Premier Christy Clark said the project, which would take at least 10 years to plan and design


Really, 10 YEARS.  She'll be out of politics AGAIN by that time

Edited by thedestroyerofworlds, 02 October 2012 - 09:13 PM.

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#7 :D

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

Christy Clark's such a toll



"Any man's traffic diminishes me, because I am involved in the morning commute, and therefore never send to know for whom the tunnel tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne (1624)
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#8 nucklehead

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

It's nice that she's proposing an NO_BRAINER scheme that will more than likely not even finish the planning stages when her and the Libs get booted out nex election.  She has been ALL STYLE and NO SUBSTANCE.  



Really, 10 YEARS.  She'll be out of politics AGAIN by that time


I fail to grasp the relivance of this statement.In any event is the catch is that you have to vote Liberal if you want this, for the next three elections. Regardless of which party is in office these projects will proceed once they are launched.
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#9 Armada

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

A+ Christie, loving the way we're improving our infrastructure.

Next up lets build a tunnel system from here through the mountains to Whistler, toll it and then you have two options to get to Whistler faster or go for free but longer, along the beautiful sea to sky!

Edited by Armada, 02 October 2012 - 09:30 PM.

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#10 nucklehead

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

How about next up a bridge to the island?
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#11 Armada

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

How about next up a bridge to the island?


Lets toll it, so we can piss off everyone in this thread.
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#12 Bleed Blue and Green

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

Skytrain to UBC please!
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#13 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:36 PM

A+ Christie, loving the way we're improving our infrastructure.

Next up lets build a tunnel system from here through the mountains to Whistler, toll it and then you have two options to get to Whistler faster or go for a free along the beautiful sea to sky!


Actually if Gordo wasn't the total tool and didn't sell off BC Rail, we could have in addition to the highway worked out a better rail line from the North Shore to Whistler. Then spur the line from Whistler, through to Pemberton, then Lillooet, Cache Creek then Kamloops. This would allow an alternate route to the interior. Be great for tourism. And allow growth outside of the lower mainland so that people could move to new communities and have *gasp!* maybe more affordable housing?

Even adding a rail line from Vancouver to Whistler would boost tourism. They'd probably need some engineering and surveying done. But I'm pretty sure rail could be done at a lower cost, and if it's designed right could help bypass some of the rockslide areas to make sure that people and goods can move up there more safely and effectively.

But what am I thinking? Long term planning, and efficiency is not the goal of government. Getting jobs on boards of directors and having cushy pensions is the goal of elected officials.
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#14 Armada

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

Actually if Gordo wasn't the total tool and didn't sell off BC Rail, we could have in addition to the highway worked out a better rail line from the North Shore to Whistler. Then spur the line from Whistler, through to Pemberton, then Lillooet, Cache Creek then Kamloops. This would allow an alternate route to the interior. Be great for tourism. And allow growth outside of the lower mainland so that people could move to new communities and have *gasp!* maybe more affordable housing?

Even adding a rail line from Vancouver to Whistler would boost tourism. They'd probably need some engineering and surveying done. But I'm pretty sure rail could be done at a lower cost, and if it's designed right could help bypass some of the rockslide areas to make sure that people and goods can move up there more safely and effectively.

But what am I thinking? Long term planning, and efficiency is not the goal of government. Getting jobs on boards of directors and having cushy pensions is the goal of elected officials.


My original post wasn't exactly serious but you're completely right. Our transportation is pathetic compared to Europe's for instance, a train line connecting all the small towns + ski resorts (Which is our biggest tourist attraction) in the interior would do prosperous things for our province.

Edited by Armada, 02 October 2012 - 09:40 PM.

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#15 Lillooet_Hillbilly

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

one of my regrets was never taking the bud car to vancouver from lillooet, now ill never have that chance thanks Gordo!
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#16 Sharpshooter

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

one of my regrets was never taking the bud car to vancouver from lillooet, now ill never have that chance thanks Gordo!


He can't hear you, he's posing for more pictures over in Hawaii ;)
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#17 Common sense

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:32 PM

Finally. That tunnel has been such a pain in the arse to deal with, especially if it's counterflow and the only remaining lane's got a stall. Don't even get me started on the express coaches that run on 99 and the tunnel - they're packed more often than not, and it's frustrating to have to pay $5 for a standing spot.

Expand the tunnel (maybe convert it into a bridge), toll it, run transit with dedicated HOV lanes over it.
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#18 goalie13

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:36 PM

Even adding a rail line from Vancouver to Whistler would boost tourism. They'd probably need some engineering and surveying done. But I'm pretty sure rail could be done at a lower cost, and if it's designed right could help bypass some of the rockslide areas to make sure that people and goods can move up there more safely and effectively.


There's a rail line to Whistler already. My folks took the Rocky Mountaineer up there this past summer.
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#19 Grapefruits

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

There's a rail line to Whistler already. My folks took the Rocky Mountaineer up there this past summer.


I've taken it also, it's really nice and relaxing.

http://www.rockymoun...r.com/en_US_CA/
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#20 Armada

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:54 PM

There's a rail line to Whistler already. My folks took the Rocky Mountaineer up there this past summer.

I've taken it also, it's really nice and relaxing.

http://www.rockymoun...r.com/en_US_CA/


The rail lines there, but the price isn't. Its not cheap or practical compared to other countries.
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#21 goalie13

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:59 PM

The rail lines there, but the price isn't. Its not cheap or practical compared to other countries.


Agreed. We had the same problem here on the Island.

We have the E&N rail line running up-island from Victoria but it has fallen into disrepair and hasn't been used for a while now. And even when it was running, it wasn't exactly cheap or modern, or even running at decent times, so few people used it.
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#22 moz

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

They also go to Kamloops too (on the way to Banff / Calgary / Jasper) or a stop in Quesnel if you wanna go round that way to Jasper ... expensive though.

VIA rail also goes through the Rockies in that direction but they go at night. Rocky Mountaineer has the monopoly on the sight seeing rail from what I know. They share the route with freight.

Edited by little.comet, 02 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.

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#23 Offensive Threat

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

From my experience with Government projects the result will be: A very nice awesome looking bridge that wins all kinds of awards and costs an arm and a leg instead of a cheap normal bridge that moves the same amount of traffic and costs less than half as much.


The rail lines there, but the price isn't. Its not cheap or practical compared to other countries.


comparing rail lines in Europe to Canada is pointless. Especially from a practicality standpoint. Building and maintaining rail lines for mass passenger travel in Canada, especially central and Western Canada, would be a giant money pit.
Canada: less than 4 people per sq Kilometer.
European union: More than 100 people per sq Kilometer.
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#24 Armada

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:25 PM

From my experience with Government projects the result will be: A very nice awesome looking bridge that wins all kinds of awards and costs an arm and a leg instead of a cheap normal bridge that moves the same amount of traffic and costs less than half as much.




comparing rail lines in Europe to Canada is pointless. Especially from a practicality standpoint. Building and maintaining rail lines for mass passenger travel in Canada, especially central and Western Canada, would be a giant money pit.
Canada: less than 4 people per sq Kilometer.
European union: More than 100 people per sq Kilometer.


I'm not proposing all of Canada but rather something just in BC (Maybe into Alberta similar to what they have in the Alps, to connect all the small towns which attract plenty of Skiers and Snowboarders during the winter (Our biggest tourist attractions are the ski resorts).

It just gives another quicker option rather than driving everywhere, since we don't have any major airports connecting all the smaller towns and ski resorts.

We need something cheap and quick with multiple lines.

Edited by Armada, 02 October 2012 - 11:26 PM.

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#25 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:30 PM

He can't hear you, he's posing for more pictures over in Hawaii ;)


He's probably awkwardly waiving his Canadian mittens as we speak.

I hope they go with the bridge, some people just can't handle the tunnel. Just ask the jackass in the open left lane doing 50.
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#26 coolboarder

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:19 AM

Buying more buses isn't the answer as people, especially mayors seem to think and wants to charge people with travelling fees. What it everybody uses transit, there will full bus and people will be forced to wait for next bus. Buses is not for everyone. Build more bridges and expand lanes will help allivate neckbottled traffic. Wise planning will go a long way and it seems to me that transit isn't working. It is a waste of money when they have opportunity to build some new lanes or tunnel with more than 8 to 10 lanes is the way to go. Oh, no tolls please. We pay high taxes already.
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#27 inane

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:41 AM

" From the 2008 Regional Screenline Survey (measuring traffic volumes in the Lower Mainland): . The total number of vehicles per day in 2008 was 390,972, which reflects a minor decrease of 2.6% from 401,227 vehicles in 2004; the greatest decreases were at the Deas Tunnel (-7.5%) and the Pattullo Bridge (-5.8%) …"

Just sayin.
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#28 goalie13

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:15 AM

^ I wonder how much of that decreased tunnel traffic can be attributed to decreased ferry traffic?
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#29 silverpig

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

[left]As long as it's not tolled...






While there at it highway 91 needs to become at least 3, at best 4 lanes..... its a joke that it is 2 lanes going onto/off the Alex Fraser bridge.. f is it ever annoying in the morning.


That's not the problem, and expanding the highway would make it worse. The problem exists because you have 2 lanes of highway traffic, combining with all the inflow/merging traffic from 72nd and nordel (so another 4 lanes for 6 total) into 3 bridge lanes. Same on the other side. You have 2 lanes of highway traffic that merge with one, then another, then two more, then another, and all have to fit onto 3 lanes on the bridge.

Why do we always look at trucking for shipping? Why don't we use existing rail lines and ship to industrial parks for distribution? We rely way too much on trucking, we need better and more efficient options.


Trucking is much faster. Rail is good for moving large amounts, but it takes a really long time. And I don't mean transportation time, I mean there has to be a huge amount of cargo loaded up on the dock that is all going to the same place (usually Chicago), which will justify sending a train from Vancouver to Chicago fully loaded. As a result, a lot of the containers just sit at the port waiting for enough stuff to build up that is going to the same destination.

You want to move 2 containers from the port to Calgary ASAP? You load it on a truck.
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#30 J.R.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

About 82,000 drivers use the tunnel daily on their commute to and from downtown Vancouver.


Meanwhile, other Metro Vancouver mayors say while they welcome the replacement of the George Massey tunnel, the province should first tackle the root of the gridlock issue: getting people out of their cars and onto transit.

"If the government wants to do something to address the issue now they would be announcing additional sustainable funding for TransLink to provide buses," Brodie said. "What we need is a solution right now and the solution is to get more buses."


Those two things pissed me off. Firstly, Not everyone is going to fracking Vancouver!! I commute from Delta to Richmond myself and I'm sure I'm not alone here in not going to Vancouver. How about we start actually planning our transit system around how people actually use it? How many studies do we need that show the majority of traffic being between suburbs before the system actually starts getting designed for it?

As for the second quote, see my above rant. If I actually had a transit option that didn't take three times as long as driving does even on a bad day with accidents and stalls, I'd use transit in a heartbeat! Having no transit options and charging me higher taxes, distance based fares or tolls is just going to piss me off, not get me out of my car.

So tell me, pro-transit folks, how do we get useful mass-transit through the 99 corridor for commuters when the majority of it is sparse, empty farmland? What's your brilliant idea other than charging me more money while giving me no options?

Edited by J.R., 03 October 2012 - 10:34 AM.

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