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Earth’s Magnetic Field Long Overdue for a Reversal


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#91 butters

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:32 AM

Tystick, your general theme seems to be "we know nothing, but we do know that the earth's axis spins at a slow rate, and that this means a big change starting in December".

Predicting the future is imossibly hard, and I can not think of anyone who had long term success predicting any sort of future. So if you start off by insisting that we know nothing, on what basis do you presume that you can claim to anything about the future? Yes the mayans were smart, and really good at astronomy. Not as good as we are, but for their time they were great.

You ask "who is to say it won't happen". But that is a generic argument that can be used on any belief. Who is to say that we all don't have invisible raccoon spirits by our sides at all times? Who is to say that Jack the Ripper won't descend from heaven to rid the world of hockey fans?

For this reason, big claims require big support. By default we have no reason to believe that a wobble in the earth's axis will have any impact on anything. So in order to separate this idea from an infinite amount of BS that anyone could make up, there needs to be a positive reason besides "a mayan told an author who told me".

I believe that we have existed on this planet for a very very long time, and in this time, I certainly don't believe we are presently the smartest we have ever been. Think about it, if the calender is 26,000 years old (from as far as we know), how could they not be intelligent if they made such an accurate calender with beautiful carvings that long ago? Or how could the great pyramid be built 11,000 years ago without the tools that would clearly be needed?


There is no galactic alignment occurring on that day or any other. It is an invented phenomonon.

The great year is not starting over, its only about 65% done.

The mayan calendar is about 2500 years old, not 26000. The great pyramids are anout 4500 years old.

People have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, but there is no reason to believe that they were anything other than hunter gatherer groups until 10000 years ago. There are no signs of any civilisations greater than ours. We can find trash from an ancient culture the size of a small band. And yet these advanced cultures leave no traces? If thats the case, why are they any less ridiculous than an ancient race of pogo riding leapord men?
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#92 nucklehead

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:14 AM

You don't believe in ancient pogo riding leapord men?
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#93 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

Well put Butters.
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#94 Tystick

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

Tystick, your general theme seems to be "we know nothing, but we do know that the earth's axis spins at a slow rate, and that this means a big change starting in December".

Predicting the future is imossibly hard, and I can not think of anyone who had long term success predicting any sort of future. So if you start off by insisting that we know nothing, on what basis do you presume that you can claim to anything about the future? Yes the mayans were smart, and really good at astronomy. Not as good as we are, but for their time they were great.

You ask "who is to say it won't happen". But that is a generic argument that can be used on any belief. Who is to say that we all don't have invisible raccoon spirits by our sides at all times? Who is to say that Jack the Ripper won't descend from heaven to rid the world of hockey fans?

For this reason, big claims require big support. By default we have no reason to believe that a wobble in the earth's axis will have any impact on anything. So in order to separate this idea from an infinite amount of BS that anyone could make up, there needs to be a positive reason besides "a mayan told an author who told me".



There is no galactic alignment occurring on that day or any other. It is an invented phenomonon.

The great year is not starting over, its only about 65% done.

The mayan calendar is about 2500 years old, not 26000. The great pyramids are anout 4500 years old.

People have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, but there is no reason to believe that they were anything other than hunter gatherer groups until 10000 years ago. There are no signs of any civilisations greater than ours. We can find trash from an ancient culture the size of a small band. And yet these advanced cultures leave no traces? If thats the case, why are they any less ridiculous than an ancient race of pogo riding leapord men?



No. That's not my general theme, don't change my wording around to suit your argument. I'm saying we as humans don't know a whole lot about ourselves, the earth, and the universe. The fact the earth has a wobble doesn't mean anything will definitely happen on December 21st 2012.

Seriously dude, do you ever look up into the sky at night? We are living on a planet that is so big it would be impossible to explore everything in a lifetime. This planet is in a solar system that has 7 (8 if pluto) other planets (all of which we have 0 idea if life has ever existed and/or is existing as we speak). Just from saying that proves we don't know what's out there in our own solar system, and it gets even crazier after that. This solar system is in a galaxy that contains billions of stars, and every star in the sky could possibly be another sun, of which could hold a solar system, meaning there may be other life just like us out there. On top of that, there's billions upon billions (from what we know - which is really just a guess (we don't know a whole lot)) of galaxies! And this is all contained in what we comprehend as a universe. And who knows if there's more universes ! Do you see what I mean now?

I'm not trying to predict anything. I was pointing out from simply observing humanity, that we as people (especially the newer generations) are realizing that the way the older generations of people are handling things isn't always beneficial to anyone or anything, and often question why they do so in the first place (ex. pollution).

The Mayans believed that the end of the long count (Dec. 21st 2012) will be the end of the old way of living and a new age of awareness will be brought upon us. The reason I believe in it is because it's matching up with whats happening right now.
This "generic argument" is backed up by an ancient cultures belief (which they still believe today btw), so I wouldn't say it's that generic. The random predictions you're making aren't comparable because there is no evidence proving a possibility in the first place, so that argument is invalid.

I don't know if this will happen or not, but when an ancient culture believes in something like this, it becomes interesting. I feel that we, a culture that has been so dis-harmonic with ourselves for a long time, are ignorant to even dismiss the entire thing completely just because we can't comprehend such a phenomenon. Who knows if it will happen or not, if it does it would be a good thing, and it baffles me as to why you're so persistent to shut it down.

As for your facts, I have no idea where you are getting this stuff.

From our perspective on Earth; a Galactic Alignment of the Sun, Earth, and Center of the Galaxy will occur on the Winter Solstice around December 21st 2012. This alignment happens every year and has no affect on us.

The Mayan timeline began on 13 August 3114 B.C.E. (very near the start of the Egyptian Old Kingdom). This is the starting point of the Mayan Long Calendar. The time divisions in the long calendar were:
1 kin = 1 day
20 kins = unial (20 days)
18 unials = tun (360 days)
20 tuns = katun (7200 days)
20 katuns = baktun (144,000 days, about 394.25 years)
13 baktuns = a Great Cycle (1,872,000 days, about 5,125.25 years)

A Great Cycle, or Age, is also known as a "Sun." Their legends state that at the end of each Sun there is a transformation. They count time in a cycle of five Suns, which therefore spans 9,360,000 days, or about 25,627 years. Some cite this Five Sun cycle as evidence of Mayan knowledge of procession of the equinoxes (This is why I said 26,000 years).

Mayans believed that we are currently in the Fifth Great Cycle, which will end, and a new First Sun begin, on 23 December 2012. Popular literature abounds with speculation on this event, and its near-coinciding with ecliptic crossing to the north of the Solar System's orbit around the Galactic Center.

If I said the Great Pyramid initially, I meant the Sphinx, my apologies.

As for your last paragraph, I'm not even going to bother, because I'll most likely end up writing a book.

Edited by Tystick, 10 October 2012 - 05:21 PM.

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#95 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

Well put Butters.


Now, go to your room. You're grounded, mister!

Edited by Scottish⑦Canuck, 10 October 2012 - 04:59 PM.

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#96 butters

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

Do you see what I mean now?


Ya I did the first time, but I don't see the relevance. There is a ton we don't know. How does that tie into anything? How does it relate to the mayans?

I'm not trying to predict anything. I was pointing out from simply observing humanity, that we as people (especially the newer generations) are realizing that the way the older generations of people are handling things isn't always beneficial to anyone or anything, and often question why they do so in the first place (ex. pollution).


What's the relevance here to Mayans or 2012?





The Mayans believed that the end of the long count (Dec. 21st 2012) will be the end of the old way of living and a new age of awareness will be brought upon us. The reason I believe in it is because it's matching up with whats happening right now.


What do you mean when you say what is happening now? What's happening now?

And again, the long count does not end for another 2000 years. There are 20 baktuns, not 13. Their calendar resets in 4772. 7885 years long rather than 5000.

This "generic argument" is backed up by an ancient cultures belief (which they still believe today btw), so I wouldn't say it's that generic. The random predictions you're making aren't comparable because there is no evidence proving a possibility in the first place, so that argument is invalid.


No, just no. You missed the point. Just because an ancient culture believed something, that doesn't make it credible. My examples were fine. But if you want a more relevant one then how about Ragnarok? Norse people believed in it. But there is still no reason to believe its real. Why is 2012 more believable than valhalla.

Please note when you are answering this question, that youa ren't even talking about the mayans beliefs (as evidence by the fact you think the long count ends in 2012). You are talking about a small minorities misconception about the mayan's beliefs. You don't know what they believed in the slightest.

I don't know if this will happen or not, but when an ancient culture believes in something like this, it becomes interesting. I feel that we, a culture that has been so dis-harmonic with ourselves for a long time, are ignorant to even dismiss the entire thing completely just because we can't comprehend such a phenomenon. Who knows if it will happen or not, if it does it would be a good thing, and it baffles me as to why you're so persistent to shut it down.


Ya, we are unharmonic, but those mayans were ever so harmonic with their human sacrifice and endemic warfare.

You say "can't comprehend", but its more like "have 0 reason to believe its true". That's what you don't get. There is no argument to be made from your side. There is no reason to believe that you know what the mayans thought. On top of that there is no reason to believe that they (or anyone) coudl predict anything.

As to why I hate this stuff, its just a general disdain of bull. I have seen these theories come and go for 20 years. I kinda bought into it when I was younger and dummer. But then I saw through it, and now consider it a duty to stop other people spreading such obvious BS as it promotes irrationality. I won't change your mind, but hopefully I might stop another person from catching the virus before it sets in.



A Great Cycle, or Age, is also known as a "Sun." Their legends state that at the end of each Sun there is a transformation. They count time in a cycle of five Suns, which therefore spans 9,360,000 days, or about 25,627 years. Some cite this Five Sun cycle as evidence of Mayan knowledge of procession of the equinoxes (This is why I said 26,000 years).

You said it was 26000 years old and that is wrong. They may have chosen that as an arbitrary start data, but the did that 2500 years ago. I don't know why any legends they might have would be relevant... and I don't think you know anything about their legends.
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#97 Tystick

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:03 PM

Ya I did the first time, but I don't see the relevance. There is a ton we don't know. How does that tie into anything? How does it relate to the mayans?

It doesn't directly relate to the Mayans. My point is, since we don't know much about ourselves, why can't we be open-minded about stuff like that?

What's the relevance here to Mayans or 2012?

We are becoming aware (the Mayans predict a new world of awareness).

What do you mean when you say what is happening now? What's happening now?

And again, the long count does not end for another 2000 years. There are 20 baktuns, not 13. Their calendar resets in 4772. 7885 years long rather than 5000.

More and more people are awakening to reality. 20 bak'tuns? I think you're confused. The Great cycle ends on 12/21/12, but the Mayans have conceived of ages much longer than that of the Great Cycle. The one you are talking about is 100% real and is set to end October 15th 4772 (This also shuts down any concern about a catastrophic end to the calendar).

No, just no. You missed the point. Just because an ancient culture believed something, that doesn't make it credible. My examples were fine. But if you want a more relevant one then how about Ragnarok? Norse people believed in it. But there is still no reason to believe its real. Why is 2012 more believable than valhalla.

Please note when you are answering this question, that youa ren't even talking about the mayans beliefs (as evidence by the fact you think the long count ends in 2012). You are talking about a small minorities misconception about the mayan's beliefs. You don't know what they believed in the slightest.

Maybe it did happen, who knows. The 2012 awareness prophecy is no more real than that one, but at least we are living in an age where will be able to find out.

Ya, we are unharmonic, but those mayans were ever so harmonic with their human sacrifice and endemic warfare.

You say "can't comprehend", but its more like "have 0 reason to believe its true". That's what you don't get. There is no argument to be made from your side. There is no reason to believe that you know what the mayans thought. On top of that there is no reason to believe that they (or anyone) coudl predict anything.

As to why I hate this stuff, its just a general disdain of bull. I have seen these theories come and go for 20 years. I kinda bought into it when I was younger and dummer. But then I saw through it, and now consider it a duty to stop other people spreading such obvious BS as it promotes irrationality. I won't change your mind, but hopefully I might stop another person from catching the virus before it sets in.

The virus? Lmao. I'm not promoting it's going to happen, holy crap, how many times do I have to say that. Who knows if it will and who knows if it wont. 0 reason? How bout the very much alive Mayan culture that believes it's going to happen? I don't necessarily believe it will happen, but I'm remaining open-minded.

You said it was 26000 years old and that is wrong. They may have chosen that as an arbitrary start data, but the did that 2500 years ago. I don't know why any legends they might have would be relevant... and I don't think you know anything about their legends.


My apologies sir, I didn't realize I was dealing with someone that knew everything already... ONE cycle of the Mayan Long Count is 5,125.25 years. This, when multiplied 5 times, lines up very closely with the Procession of the Equinox (25,920), mearly creating a thought that they had knowledge of the Earths wobble at that time, but that is no more than a guess. The Mayans also don't know if they did or not, so there you go.
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#98 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:29 PM

Apocalypse never: Newly discovered Mayan calendar further disproves doomsday myth

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Scientists have uncovered the oldest-known Mayan calendar ever discovered — and it further shows that all this December 21, 2012, apocalypse talk is a bunch of hooey.

The world is not going to end on December 21. No, not even according to the Mayan calendar. And especially not according to the awesome newly uncovered Mayan calendar — the oldest known Mayan calendar in existence — which was recently discovered by Boston University archeologist William Saturno.

First glimpsed by an undergraduate student of Saturno’s in 2010, this new Mayan calendar was found buried at a well known Mayan archeology site in Guatemala. After first dismissing the value of the bit of paint spotted by his student, Saturno later went back to record the discovery, regardless of whether it had value.

What Saturno found turned out to be a well-presevered mural that includes the oldest known Mayan calendar to date. And just like the Maya Long Count calendar, which serves as the basis for the apocalypse myth, this calendar extends indefinitely into the future.

“The Mayan calendar is going to keep going for billions, trillions, octillions of years into the future,” University of Texas archeologist, author, and Maya expert David Stuart told LiveScience. “Numbers we can’t even wrap our heads around.”

In case you’re stumbling upon the Mayan doomsday nonsense for the first time, here’s the gist of it: The Mayan calendar is broken down into “baktuns” (or “b’ak’tun”), each of which equals 400 years, or about 146,000 days. According to Mayan legend, the current world — the one in which we are all currently living — was created over 12 baktuns ago. At the end of the 13th baktun, the world as we know it will cease to exist. December 21, 2012 — the winter solstice — is that day.

Of course, many scientists with real understanding of ancient Mayan culture and language have for decades tried to explain that, no, the end of the 13th baktun does not literally mean the end of the world. In fact, they say, not even the Mayans themselves believed such silliness. The end-of-world myth was actually concocted by Christian missionaries. And some experts say that the end of the 13th baktun is actually December 23, not December 21.

The newly discovered Mayan calendar has cycles of time recording 17 baktuns, rather than the standard 13. This and other details, which Saturno describe in this week’s issue of the journal Science, should be all anyone needs to stop their urge to stock up on canned food and ammo.

http://www.digitaltr...-doomsday-myth/


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#99 Tom-The-Great

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:38 PM

you guys are letting facts get in the way of Tystick's story!
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#100 theminister

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:42 PM

Sharpie, you know what always gets my goat?

When people talk about the Mayan calendar and then show pictures of the Aztec Calendar. :bigblush:
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#101 Sharpshooter

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

Sharpie, you know what always gets my goat?

When people talk about the Mayan calendar and then show pictures of the Aztec Calendar. :bigblush:


It's not the first time you've caught that, and it won't be the last, i'm sure.

How many times does that make it, over the years with this particular topic? ;)
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#102 theminister

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:07 AM

It's not the first time you've caught that, and it won't be the last, i'm sure.

How many times does that make it, over the years with this particular topic? ;)


It annoys my sense of journalistic responsibility and due diligence. Also being a history nerd.....

Notice how I avoid the rest of the whargarbl though.

Edited by theminister, 11 October 2012 - 12:08 AM.

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#103 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

It annoys my sense of journalistic responsibility and due diligence. Also being a history nerd.....

Notice how I avoid the rest of the whargarbl though.


What's a little whargarbl between past Thursday night drinking buddies?
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#104 theminister

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:33 AM

What's a little whargarbl between past Thursday night drinking buddies?


Aww, the good ole days.... wistful and yet poignant. Where is Bucket o' Salad or whatever his name was?


\ I agree with most of what butters said at the top to the tee except the last paragraph as Göbekli Tepe is changing everything we thought we knew.

People have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, but there is no reason to believe that they were anything other than hunter gatherer groups until 10000 years ago.


\\ See how I avoided commenting on that?

Edited by theminister, 11 October 2012 - 12:34 AM.

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#105 butters

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:48 AM

It doesn't directly relate to the Mayans. My point is, since we don't know much about ourselves, why can't we be open-minded about stuff like that?


Because if we are open minded about things without having any standards of proving to ourselves something is true, we will end up having no standards to separate reality from fantasy or paranoid delusion. I already addressed this one up top. Big claims require big evidence. Or even just a smidgen of evidence. The tiniest reason to even think that it could be true.


We are becoming aware (the Mayans predict a new world of awareness).More and more people are awakening to reality.

That's so vague as to be meaningless. What does that even mean?



20 bak'tuns? I think you're confused. The Great cycle ends on 12/21/12, but the Mayans have conceived of ages much longer than that of the Great Cycle. The one you are talking about is 100% real and is set to end October 15th 4772 (This also shuts down any concern about a catastrophic end to the calendar).

No, only a small cycle of 394 years is ending. The long count (7800ish years long) ends on 4772.

Maybe it did happen, who knows. The 2012 awareness prophecy is no more real than that one, but at least we are living in an age where will be able to find out.


The thing is there is nothing to find out. Its not really credible enough for most people to take seriously, and people like you will not stop believing it no matter what. Your definitions of what will happen after 2012 are non existent, and when nothing happens you will either say that the effect is delayed or will convince yourself that something has occurred.

How bout the very much alive Mayan culture that believes it's going to happen? I don't necessarily believe it will happen, but I'm remaining open-minded.

The people are, the culture isn't, and you don't know what they believe.

My apologies sir, I didn't realize I was dealing with someone that knew everything already... ONE cycle of the Mayan Long Count is 5,125.25 years. This, when multiplied 5 times, lines up very closely with the Procession of the Equinox (25,920), mearly creating a thought that they had knowledge of the Earths wobble at that time, but that is no more than a guess. The Mayans also don't know if they did or not, so there you go.

I don't know everything, and that is why I look it up. One cycle of the long count is 7885 years. So your math doesn't hold up. And neither does the 26000 thing.
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#106 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

Aww, the good ole days.... wistful and yet poignant. Where is Bucket o' Salad or whatever his name was?


\ I agree with most of what butters said at the top to the tee except the last paragraph as Göbekli Tepe is changing everything we thought we knew.



\\ See how I avoided commenting on that?


Perfect avoidance....flawless victory.

Yeah, Stew was entertainment personified. We really went far down that rabbit hole eh? :lol: Good times, good times.

Look at you with the 'Göbekli Tepe'....walk like an Egyptian much...i mean Aztec? B)
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#107 Tystick

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

Because if we are open minded about things without having any standards of proving to ourselves something is true, we will end up having no standards to separate reality from fantasy or paranoid delusion. I already addressed this one up top. Big claims require big evidence. Or even just a smidgen of evidence. The tiniest reason to even think that it could be true.



That's so vague as to be meaningless. What does that even mean?




No, only a small cycle of 394 years is ending. The long count (7800ish years long) ends on 4772.



The thing is there is nothing to find out. Its not really credible enough for most people to take seriously, and people like you will not stop believing it no matter what. Your definitions of what will happen after 2012 are non existent, and when nothing happens you will either say that the effect is delayed or will convince yourself that something has occurred.


The people are, the culture isn't, and you don't know what they believe.


I don't know everything, and that is why I look it up. One cycle of the long count is 7885 years. So your math doesn't hold up. And neither does the 26000 thing.


Look, we can keep going on and on about this, but it's obvious we're not changing each others minds.
All I was trying to get across is it is a prophecy (NOT the doomsday theory) that the Mayans still believe in (If you talk to any one of them, they will be happy to explain it - personal experience in Mexico, along with multiple others). We are living in the age where we will be part of the beginning of a new Mayan Long Count Calender cycle (Mesoamerican calendar cycle). So since the Mayans firmly believe in this, why can't we be open-minded to it? Being open-minded doesn't mean you accept it as reality, but rather leave it on the table for consideration. Who knows if it will happen or not, but just because we are incredibly left-brained doesn't mean we should dismiss it because it just doesn't make sense to us right now. Just my opinion.

Edited by Tystick, 11 October 2012 - 10:46 AM.

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#108 Tystick

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

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That thing looks incredible!
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#109 butters

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:20 PM

So since the Mayans firmly believe in this, why can't we be open-minded to it? Being open-minded doesn't mean you accept it as reality, but rather leave it on the table for consideration. Who knows if it will happen or not, but just because we are incredibly left-brained doesn't mean we should dismiss it because it just doesn't make sense to us right now. Just my opinion.


In order to consider something, there has to be a good reason. No one has given any. Therefore there is no reason to give this any more credence than anything else that a person could make up.

You can't show an example of people claiming to have mystical powers that proved to be true. I can show you plenty that proved to be false, or straight up lies.

Your sort of open mind is harmful to yourself. You could be easily drawn into a cult, for example. All you have to do is keep an open mind when a crazy or manipulative person tells you their crazy and manipulative ideas.

You are clearly young, so hopefully you snap out of it sooner or later. I'm not going to change your mind right now, but in 3 or 4 years when you realise the world is just the same as it was, I hope you start rejecting the conspiracy/prophecy memes that are around at that time. They will sound similar to the ones around now, except small details will change.
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#110 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:24 PM

In order to consider something, there has to be a good reason. No one has given any. Therefore there is no reason to give this any more credence than anything else that a person could make up.

You can't show an example of people claiming to have mystical powers that proved to be true. I can show you plenty that proved to be false, or straight up lies.

Your sort of open mind is harmful to yourself. You could be easily drawn into a cult, for example. All you have to do is keep an open mind when a crazy or manipulative person tells you their crazy and manipulative ideas.

You are clearly young, so hopefully you snap out of it sooner or later. I'm not going to change your mind right now, but in 3 or 4 years when you realise the world is just the same as it was, I hope you start rejecting the conspiracy/prophecy memes that are around at that time. They will sound similar to the ones around now, except small details will change.



Age and education man....they do wonders for those who are naturally curious but who don't know what to believe.

I guess we all travel at different speeds, though hopefully on the same path.
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#111 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

In order to consider something, there has to be a good reason. No one has given any. Therefore there is no reason to give this any more credence than anything else that a person could make up.

Man I feel like a broken record, ignorance is bliss i guess.

How is an ancient cultures belief system not a good enough reason? That's mass amounts of people believing in the same thing. How's it any different from a religion we believe in? That's mass amounts of people believing in an ancient cultures belief system, the only difference is we are part of that culture. I myself don't believe in any specific religion, but I am open-minded to all of them. If someone makes something up and expects others to believe in it, most people will think it's stupid and will look the other way due to lack of evidence proving the theory. Therefore, once again, that argument is invalid.


You can't show an example of people claiming to have mystical powers that proved to be true. I can show you plenty that proved to be false, or straight up lies.

When did mystical powers come into play? Did I miss something? :lol:


Your sort of open mind is harmful to yourself. You could be easily drawn into a cult, for example. All you have to do is keep an open mind when a crazy or manipulative person tells you their crazy and manipulative ideas.

Meh, it frees me of cognitive dissonance, which can be much more harmful. Also, I think cults are stupid.


You are clearly young, so hopefully you snap out of it sooner or later. I'm not going to change your mind right now, but in 3 or 4 years when you realise the world is just the same as it was, I hope you start rejecting the conspiracy/prophecy memes that are around at that time. They will sound similar to the ones around now, except small details will change.

Who told you!? Dammit, unbelievable. I guess now you know that I'm just making things up and I'll snap out of it sooner or later...

For one, what does age have to do with anything? Secondly, I could say the same thing to you just from your inconsistency of arguments, spelling, and punctuation. Does that actually prove you're young? No. So I don't know where exactly you're getting that from.

I never said it was going to happen, and I never said it wasn't going to happen.
But OK, If the world hasn't changed in 3 or 4 years for the better, I'll start disbelieving everything like you.
I just hope I don't become as arrogantly ignorant. :sadno:

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 01:31 PM.

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#112 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

Age and education man....they do wonders for those who are naturally curious but who don't know what to believe.

I guess we all travel at different speeds, though hopefully on the same path.


The path to closed-minded ignorance?
Ya no thanks.

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 02:12 PM.

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#113 Sharpshooter

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:14 PM

The path to closed-minded ignorance?
Ya no thanks.


Understanding that you're not allowing yourself to swallow any and all tripe without any evidence, is the path of reason, not ignorance.
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#114 butters

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:09 PM

Man I feel like a broken record, ignorance is bliss i guess.

How is an ancient cultures belief system not a good enough reason? That's mass amounts of people believing in the same thing. How's it any different from a religion we believe in? That's mass amounts of people believing in an ancient cultures belief system, the only difference is we are part of that culture.


No different from any religion. There is no reason to believe in any of them. Masses of people believing something is no reason to believe it.

And frankly, I don't believe that you know what the Mayans believe anyway. All the stuff you learned wasn't from experts on the mayans, it was from alt-history types.


When did mystical powers come into play? Did I miss something? :lol:

The ability to predict the future sounds pretty mystical to me.


Meh, it frees me of cognitive dissonance, which can be much more harmful. Also, I think cults are stupid.

No, it engenders cognitive dissonance. Taking things on faith always does.


Who told you!? Dammit, unbelievable. I guess now you know that I'm just making things up and I'll snap out of it sooner or later...

For one, what does age have to do with anything? Secondly, I could say the same thing to you just from your inconsistency of arguments, spelling, and punctuation. Does that actually prove you're young? No. So I don't know where exactly you're getting that from.

I never said it was going to happen, and I never said it wasn't going to happen.
But OK, If the world hasn't changed in 3 or 4 years for the better, I'll start disbelieving everything like you.
I just hope I don't become as arrogantly ignorant. :sadno:


I know your young from your attitude and the way you are presenting yourself.

Age means that you have a lot more experience in sorting out the BS from the truth. I used to be 'open minded' as you would call it when I was younger. But after seeing these sorts of things over and over again, you wise up. And the new BS always sounds a lot like the old BS.

Spelling and punctuation? What a load of crap. This is a message board, not an essay. I'm not going to spend any time making my posts look pretty.

Inconsistent? How? The inconsistency is all yours. You get basic facts wrong and you don't even stand behind your points in the face of adversity.

Example 1, you think the long count ends this year when it doesn't end until 47something. You claim that changes are coming BECAUSE the long count is ending. But you are wrong in that point. And the funny thing is that even when you admit that, you won't stop believing. It won't effect your belief at all. THAT is what cognitive dissonance is.

Example 2... your quote from page 1

"If people actually did the research, they would realize that the reason the calender is ending is because our present way of life is coming to end. Therefore, since a new calender is starting, a new way of life (the Awakening) is beginning as well."

and your last post

"I never said it was going to happen, and I never said it wasn't going to happen."

That's quite a change in tone. You can't defend your viewpoint because there is no way to defend it, and you don't have the knowledge base to do it. I repeatedly ask you for support, and all you can come up with is "a bunch of mayans believed it so there must be something to it". So instead you deflect by saying you are open to everything.
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#115 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:38 PM

Look man I don't want to keep doing this because we're clearly not seeing each others sides, and I'm sure it's getting irritating for the both of us. I'll try to sum it all up one last time with both of our views.

No different from any religion. There is no reason to believe in any of them. Masses of people believing something is no reason to believe it.

And frankly, I don't believe that you know what the Mayans believe anyway. All the stuff you learned wasn't from experts on the mayans, it was from alt-history types.



I was just trying to show a clear similarity between their belief system and ours. Of course that's no reason to believe in it, I never said we should, but why not remain open-minded to it? We'll be able to find out if their prophecy is true or not. In the end, you should believe in what you want.

I came up with that conclusion through my own experience and from stories I've heard from other people talking to some of the Mayan shamans in Mexico. If you want to find out for yourself, I suggest talking to some of them next time you're down there, it's quite interesting.


The ability to predict the future sounds pretty mystical to me.


Maybe instead of having "Mystical Powers", it's knowledge of their ancestors wisdom, who knows. We're not them, neither of us can actually come to a conclusion on this.


No, it engenders cognitive dissonance. Taking things on faith always does.


Yes, in a way you're right. IF I became fixated on it, it would be like believing in a dogmatic religion. The reality is, I am not choosing to believe in this, but am still remaining open to it because I will be able to find out for myself. What's wrong with that?


I know your young from your attitude and the way you are presenting yourself.
Age means that you have a lot more experience in sorting out the BS from the truth. I used to be 'open minded' as you would call it when I was younger. But after seeing these sorts of things over and over again, you wise up. And the new BS always sounds a lot like the old BS.

Spelling and punctuation? What a load of crap. This is a message board, not an essay. I'm not going to spend any time making my posts look pretty.

Inconsistent? How? The inconsistency is all yours. You get basic facts wrong and you don't even stand behind your points in the face of adversity.

Example 1, you think the long count ends this year when it doesn't end until 47something. You claim that changes are coming BECAUSE the long count is ending. But you are wrong in that point. And the funny thing is that even when you admit that, you won't stop believing. It won't effect your belief at all. THAT is what cognitive dissonance is.

Example 2... your quote from page 1

"If people actually did the research, they would realize that the reason the calender is ending is because our present way of life is coming to end. Therefore, since a new calender is starting, a new way of life (the Awakening) is beginning as well."

and your last post

"I never said it was going to happen, and I never said it wasn't going to happen."


That's quite a change in tone. You can't defend your viewpoint because there is no way to defend it, and you don't have the knowledge base to do it. I repeatedly ask you for support, and all you can come up with is "a bunch of mayans believed it so there must be something to it". So instead you deflect by saying you are open to everything.


I see your point and I can't disagree because I don't have enough experience as you do. If that's true, it's fine, I get it. I just want you to know that I am not BELIEVING in their prophecy, but rather am OPEN to it. My views are more observing rather than obsessive.

The examples I used weren't meant to be "attacks", so I'm sorry that you took it that way.

Saying I'm inconsistent from the examples you listed is plain wrong.

Once again, the Mayan long count (which was taken from the Mesoamerican long count), lasts approximately 5,125 years. It ends this year on 12/21/12, and restarts on 12/22/12, moving into the next b'ak'tun. The cycle you are talking about ends on October 15th 4772, which is prophesied to be a date of celebration, moving into the next piktun (which is 20 b'ak'tun - I think that was what you got confused with). If you don't believe me, I suggest you look it up before you talk ignorantly again.

The quote you took is from me referencing their prophecy on a new age of awareness. I didn't believe in it then, nor do I believe in it now. I was simply stating that if someone actually did the research, they would be more knowledgeable on the matter.




The point I am trying to get you to understand is I DON'T believe in it, but I WANT to remain open to it because it's an interesting major belief, and I want to find out for myself.

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.

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#116 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

Understanding that you're not allowing yourself to swallow any and all tripe without any evidence, is the path of reason, not ignorance.


Of course, but how can you call this rubbish?
It's basically a major religion to them.
Also, their culture is WAY more spiritual than ours.

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 08:02 PM.

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#117 VancouverCanucksRock

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:59 PM

Too bad this couldn't have happebned before many people started harassing other's online, and such
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#118 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

Too bad this couldn't have happebned before many people started harassing other's online, and such


No kidding <_<

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 08:05 PM.

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#119 Sharpshooter

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

Of course, but how can you call this rubbish?
It's basically a major religion to them.
Also, their culture is WAY more spiritual than ours.


You seriously asking me why I think their religion is 'rubbish'? ;) Kinda like asking a fish if the water's wet, no? :P

And I have no problems with the context of their spiritual perceptions of mapping stars and alignments and what not. It gave them some meaning or understanding of their reality. All i'm saying is that now, in this time, we know that stars align all the time, as do planets, and moons, and solar systems, and galaxies and other things, without any further meaning or ephiphanies, other than their inherent alignment, without it affecting our minds, or consciousness or souls or spirits, or what have you. Sometimes an alignment is just an alignment....a symmetrical pattern that's pleasing to our pattern seeking inner nature, which came about from the pattern seeking that's helped us survive and adapt in our environments through the hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. That's the real truth big guy. The awakening and all that, is just someone else's imaginative hope or aspirations for our species, or our planet or us as individuals...and that's a nice thought too. Nothing wrong with that. But, aspirations and prophecies from the positive hopes and wishes and projections created by people who lived centuries/millenia ago, isn't the best way for a rational and reasonable person in this age to perceive reality. It's only going to muddle it up and get it the way of you actually experiencing reality, and the spirituality found therein in many areas like finding transcendence or a spiritual oneness with your fellow human beings, or other life on this planet, or the awe of cosmology and knowledge and so many other sources. I suppose you'll figure all this out in your own time, at your own speed, but trust me, there's no prophecy made by man thousands or hundreds of years ago that you can count on to guide you to a bigger or more profound reality than the reality in which you live in right now. Trust your senses and sense of reason and logic, they're finely tuned to help you figure this world out.
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#120 Tystick

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:46 PM

You seriously asking me why I think their religion is 'rubbish'? ;) Kinda like asking a fish if the water's wet, no? :P

Hahahaha, you're right, what was I thinking :lol:

And I have no problems with the context of their spiritual perceptions of mapping stars and alignments and what not. It gave them some meaning or understanding of their reality. All i'm saying is that now, in this time, we know that stars align all the time, as do planets, and moons, and solar systems, and galaxies and other things, without any further meaning or ephiphanies, other than their inherent alignment, without it affecting our minds, or consciousness or souls or spirits, or what have you. Sometimes an alignment is just an alignment....a symmetrical pattern that's pleasing to our pattern seeking inner nature, which came about from the pattern seeking that's helped us survive and adapt in our environments through the hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. That's the real truth big guy.


Good point. I don't necessarily believe in it, but it's definitely interesting none the less.
But what if certain alignments have gradually affected our consciousness creating what we know as "evolution", and we just don't know?
Just my tidbit B)

The awakening and all that, is just someone else's imaginative hope or aspirations for our species, or our planet or us as individuals...and that's a nice thought too. Nothing wrong with that. But, aspirations and prophecies from the positive hopes and wishes and projections created by people who lived centuries/millenia ago, isn't the best way for a rational and reasonable person in this age to perceive reality. It's only going to muddle it up and get it the way of you actually experiencing reality, and the spirituality found therein in many areas like finding transcendence or a spiritual oneness with your fellow human beings, or other life on this planet, or the awe of cosmology and knowledge and so many other sources. I suppose you'll figure all this out in your own time, at your own speed, but trust me, there's no prophecy made by man thousands or hundreds of years ago that you can count on to guide you to a bigger or more profound reality than the reality in which you live in right now. Trust your senses and sense of reason and logic, they're finely tuned to help you figure this world out.


I agree and I'm already aware that it's far-fetched. I do not believe in it, but I find it interesting.
The part that hooks me into it is the Maya culture was incredibly wise. We can look back and think of them as this barbarian race or whatever, but the truth is they were very advanced and mysterious. Markings found in their temples showed that they knew the cycles of the Moon, Mars, and Venus. Their calenders and structures also showed a great amount of talent and technical skill.

Logic is the absolute best tool one can use, but it is also very limited to us. I believe we as a race have much more to discover about ourselves, the planet, and the universe. So therefore, since we don't know everything, we naturally apply logic to what we do know, making things like this seem unreasonable and not of much sense. My reasoning is that since we don't know everything yet, why can't we be open-minded to their knowledge?

Edited by Tystick, 12 October 2012 - 09:58 PM.

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