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Templeton Peck

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0

3,003 posts in this topic

If it was Bozak and Kadri involved in the deal, I would imagine Schroeder would be going the other way. We would have our 3rd line center and Kadri is better than Schroeder.

Luongo

Schroeder

Connauton

For

Bozak

Gardiner

Kadri

We get our third line center for this season, and future depth at center, as well as a depth defenceman.

The Leafs get their number 1 goalie, and a likely playoff birth. They also get a replacement for Kadri on their depth chart, and a solid defensive prospect to replace Gardiner.

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Plan:

-Trade Luongo to the leafs.

-Media over-hypes the crap out of the leafs(more than usual)

-Games start on Jan.1

-October Luongo shows up.

-Leafs miss playoffs.

-Burke Fired

-Gillis Laughs.

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Gillis is dropping his pants if this is happening.

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Buddy,

I live in Toronto and we're getting scrubs if Kadri and Bozak are all we get, bc we won't get Gardiner.

Secondly, Kadri has put up better numbers in the AHL than Schroeder, but Schoeder is a MUCH better hockey player. Kadri is a tweener and a guy who will always put up numbers in the AHL but does nothing in the NHL. He is too small and not tough on his skates (think Petr Nedved rookie season and never gets stronger), has a terrible shot, decent passer, and has average speed.

Schroeder, while small, is pound for pound one of the strongest guys on the Wolves, has terrific speed, is showing he can play at both ends of the ice and has as good if not better offensive instincts/passing/ and a terrific shot. We are not sending him the other way. Moreover, Schroeder has intensity and drive. Kadri has been expected to make a crappy leafs team for 3 years, who are in need of an offensive center and can't crack that lineup???? Think about that for a second, an offensive top ten pick on a crap team in need of a center and he can't make it? He has no drive and will not last a second under AV. Schroeder has worked his tail off and improved every year...I'd not want to see him go because that would be like getting raped twice.

Bozak, is a 2nd line player on the leafs who'd be 3rd or 4th on us. He's decent but needs to get some more size and more consistent. Right coaching and players around him, could become a decent player but would be an avg 2nd liner and decent 3rd.

So unless we get Gardiner or their first, we're getting raped.

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Gillis is dropping his pants if this is happening.

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How? Kadri is a top 10 pick, Bozak is a very solid third line center, and the 2nd could be a high 2nd. A roster player, a top prospect, and a pick. All of which are what MG wants for Luongo.

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Buddy,

I live in Toronto and we're getting scrubs if Kadri and Bozak are all we get, bc we won't get Gardiner.

Secondly, Kadri has put up better numbers in the AHL than Schroeder, but Schoeder is a MUCH better hockey player. Kadri is a tweener and a guy who will always put up numbers in the AHL but does nothing in the NHL. He is too small and not tough on his skates (think Petr Nedved rookie season and never gets stronger), has a terrible shot, decent passer, and has average speed.

Schroeder, while small, is pound for pound one of the strongest guys on the Wolves, has terrific speed, is showing he can play at both ends of the ice and has as good if not better offensive instincts/passing/ and a terrific shot. We are not sending him the other way. Moreover, Schroeder has intensity and drive. Kadri has been expected to make a crappy leafs team for 3 years, who are in need of an offensive center and can't crack that lineup???? Think about that for a second, an offensive top ten pick on a crap team in need of a center and he can't make it? He has no drive and will not last a second under AV. Schroeder has worked his tail off and improved every year...I'd not want to see him go because that would be like getting raped twice.

Bozak, is a 2nd line player on the leafs who'd be 3rd or 4th on us. He's decent but needs to get some more size and more consistent. Right coaching and players around him, could become a decent player but would be an avg 2nd liner and decent 3rd.

So unless we get Gardiner or their first, we're getting raped.

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Buddy,

I live in Toronto and we're getting scrubs if Kadri and Bozak are all we get, bc we won't get Gardiner.

Secondly, Kadri has put up better numbers in the AHL than Schroeder, but Schoeder is a MUCH better hockey player. Kadri is a tweener and a guy who will always put up numbers in the AHL but does nothing in the NHL. He is too small and not tough on his skates (think Petr Nedved rookie season and never gets stronger), has a terrible shot, decent passer, and has average speed.

Schroeder, while small, is pound for pound one of the strongest guys on the Wolves, has terrific speed, is showing he can play at both ends of the ice and has as good if not better offensive instincts/passing/ and a terrific shot. We are not sending him the other way. Moreover, Schroeder has intensity and drive. Kadri has been expected to make a crappy leafs team for 3 years, who are in need of an offensive center and can't crack that lineup???? Think about that for a second, an offensive top ten pick on a crap team in need of a center and he can't make it? He has no drive and will not last a second under AV. Schroeder has worked his tail off and improved every year...I'd not want to see him go because that would be like getting raped twice.

Bozak, is a 2nd line player on the leafs who'd be 3rd or 4th on us. He's decent but needs to get some more size and more consistent. Right coaching and players around him, could become a decent player but would be an avg 2nd liner and decent 3rd.

So unless we get Gardiner or their first, we're getting raped.

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...

I still think a Schneider trade would garner better returns and further push thins team toward the Holy Grail. Schneider and change to TOR could easily garner Rielly AND Biggs. Not Luongo.

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I'll offer a rebuttal to your post with the following, simple question, which always answers every last question to the market value of every last player:

WHERE ARE ALL OF THE OTHER BUYERS FOR LUONGO?

Answer: they don't exist.

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While Schneider was drafted lower than Rielly, he has proven himself at least a little at the NHL level so that helps his value. Perhaps you could argue it would be a deal that's reasonable on paper, but there's no way it's realistic for anyone other than a desperate team to give up that much for a goalie that has yet to be a starter over a significant stretch of games. The Leafs, and most other teams, would not go for that.

I've talked in the past about the potential with New Jersey for a Schneider deal, which has of course been mitigated by both Brodeur and Hedberg signing 2 year extensions. No one would have suggested Adam Larsson straight up for Schneider realistically, although we've seen Larsson's stock come down ever so slightly after being sat in New Jersey and a back injury and Schneider's stock rise a little with a couple of very good starts against LA in the playoffs. Would Toronto trade Rielly and Biggs to New Jersey for Larsson? Maybe, but would New Jersey trade Larsson to us for Schneider straight up? Not likely, even if Brodeur and Hedberg weren't re-signed.

That's not to say I don't agree Schneider would garner a greater return, but is the difference significant enough that it overcomes his potential value to us as our future starter and is the market of teams interested also significantly different enough that we'd be able to get an increased return back versus what we can do with Luongo. Interesting debate and a tough call.

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What is it about Van fans who positively gush about To Laffer wannabees. Who's dispensing the Laffer koolaid?

For those debating Burrows role, please consult Stevie Y!

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I wouldn't, after watching a few Marlies games I can tell you that Colbourne looks like a confused bear. He doesn't use his size well, doesn't bring a ton of offense. To me he seems like he will become a big 3rd line center, basicly the next Brian Boyle.

I hope he has picked it up for his sake, but I would rather have Kadri.

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I've said it before, Kadri and Bozak + pick would be a reasonable return for Luongo. I don't have Kadri in my theoretical Canucks lineup, because I know AV and I know Kadri isn't defensively responsible. Does that make him a complete bust? No, just means he has to spend another year developing in OUR system. I remember the growing pains with Wellwood, he had all kinds of Leaf bad habits including eating an excessive amount of cheeseburgers. Kadri is a top notch dynamic forward, a future top 6 player that is worth the gamble. I also like the optimism directed towards Schroeder, I've stuck with this kid all the way and it's good to see him get some recognition.

The best immediate return from the deal with Toronto would be Bozak. Yes, he would be our 3rd line centre but he would be a productive 3rd line centre, he would give us the ability to attack with 3 lines like when Hodgson was here. Bozak is also good in his own zone, and has seen his offensive numbers increase every year he's been in the league. His stock is climbing, a sound investment for a team this deep.

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I personally believe that the returns could be much greater for a Schneider trade than a Luongo trade due to the amount of teams that would be involved in negotiations. Schneider's contract is short, affordable and without any restrictions, thereby theoretically involving 29 of 30 teams, whereas Luogo's contract is heavy both in amount and in term, and has a no movement clause, as well as heavy restrictions as to when either party can ask for a waive of those clauses, thereby involving fewer than five teams.

These teams are rumored to be Florida, Toronto and Chicago so far and will not outbid each other with great value as Florida is a rebuilding team, Toronto is even less rich in talent and have bargained their futures for quick fixes, while Chicago would be reluctant to give such talents as Sharp or Kane. Bolland in a Vancouver Canucks is a near impossibility. If one thinks there is animosity between the team and Luongo, wait to see the animosity between the team and Bolland.

A Schneider trade opens numerous possibilities and at such junctures as the trade deadline, teams are known to outbid each other and pay a hefty price for wanted pieces, whereas I can hardly believe that there would be a bidding war for Luongo between Florida and Toronto. A trade between Chicago and Vancouver at the trade deadline would be considered close to treason from whoever loses the trade. Since the Bowman family is involved in Chicago, my guess is the Canucks would be on the losing end.

elvis15, I am glad we can have a rational discussion involving such matters. It is hard to find some objective counterpart to discuss with on this board. And I agree, it is a very tough call.

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How? Kadri is a top 10 pick, Bozak is a very solid third line center, and the 2nd could be a high 2nd. A roster player, a top prospect, and a pick. All of which are what MG wants for Luongo.

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I have three words for those who seriously think the Canucks will trade Schneider and keep Luongo:

1) El

2) Oh

3) El

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The other buyers for Luongo are as busy as the buyers for Luongo; negotiating te next CBA.

That is, if there are buyers for Luongo.

So far, Florida is not a buyer, Toronto is not a buyer and Chicago isn't a buyer.

There are no buyers for Luongo, unless one takes a heavy hit in returns.

Schneider on the other hand, perhaps a package involving Schneider would have made Nash a Canucks. Perhaps.

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........for the leafs.

Kardri doesn't make our team.

Bozak a third line centre.

Lu for peanuts......no thx.

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