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Templeton Peck

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0

3,003 posts in this topic

There is a big step from the AHL to the NHL and some of the most important factors are:

1. Either size or speed, preferably both, but you can't have neither. Kadri has neither. He is a tweener

2. Intensity and desire to make it. The kid was called fat by Burke this year when he showed to camp. Is that commitment? Not to mention as I said prior, 6th overall, supposedly offensively talented center, can't make one of the worst teams in the league in need of an offensively talented center in three years? really? and you think he can make the jump? Just because the Hockey News said he was ranked high doesn't mean he's capable of playing at the NHL level.

3. Defensively responsible, kind of ties into number one, which he is not. Which we know = AV's doghouse.

4. Courage. Courage to go to the hard spots, to take a hit, to get manhandled to make a play to drive to the net knowing you're going to get smoked by a dman. He plays on the fringes like Raymond, we don't need a slightly larger MayRay without the speed. That works in the AHL, you can't play on the fringes in the NHL and put up numbers, ie the reason along with his committment to the game that he hasn't in three years shown any hints of being even capable of being not only a second line nhl'er but even an nhl'er at all.

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So you are trading a 3rd rounder for a 3rd rounder. Hopefully moving up a few spots, Raymond + Rai for Kamarov and Holzer.

The rest is same, Luongo for Kadri and Bozak.

IMO its not a good idea to trade Raymond for Kamarov, Holzer and exchange of draft positions in the 3rd. Raymond provides a lot of depth especially in the playoffs. He can move up down the lineup from 2nd to fourth lines. He's an excellent penalty killer, has tons of speed and is due for a bounce back year going into UFA.

He's a former 20 goal scorer and is itching to get a good season in, particularly after a terrible injury which should be fully healed by now. Right now is not the time to trade Raymond as his trade value is low. Especially not a good idea to trade him for a couple of guys who won't be able to crack the Canucks lineup.

I can't see MG doing this at all.

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Maybe Gillis begged him not to play competetively during the summer due to risk of injury. An injured Luongo during a 56-game season would be a bloody tough trade once the CBA is resolved. :)

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I live in Toronto and have watched Kadri many times. He is junk. He will be a career AHL'er or a guy who bounces around and around...

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Holzer, Kamarov both drafted in 06', I'd be surprised if they're still Leafs property. Raymond being moved is interesting, and I can only assume Rai is a contract dump. The core of the deal is the same as what we've heard.

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I can't say I'm overly impressed by the latest rumour of Bozak and Kadri for Luongo. This does not seem to be enough of a return.

Bozak does look like a good player who would serve well at 3C. However, due to the shortened season, Bozak is (to my mind) the equivalent of a deadline rental. As has been noted, he will be a UFA at the end of the season, and as such, I believe Gillis could probably pick him up for perhaps only a third round (lower?) pick. Why include him in a deal for Luongo? And if he is in the Luongo deal, and he chooses to walk as a UFA, the deal then becomes Luongo for Kadri.

Kadri might indeed have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and has decided to play with a more professional attitude with regard to staying in shape and his interactions with the Leafs. This being said, if he is unhappy being down the depth chart of the Leafs, why would he be any happier being with the Canucks where he could only hope for 3C minutes until Sedin retires (maybe in two years, maybe longer)? I'm not saying he'd be awful as a Canuck, but he just may view the situation from a "What is best for Nazem Kadri?" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with this), and if he does, he just might walk as soon as possible to explore greener pastures. If that is the case, the deal then becomes Luongo for .....?

If the Komorov and Holzer additions are true, they might be nice additions, but they are hardly something to point to and say, "Hey, those are the guys we got for Luongo."

regards,

G.

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I can't say I'm overly impressed by the latest rumour of Bozak and Kadri for Luongo. This does not seem to be enough of a return.

Bozak does look like a good player who would serve well at 3C. However, due to the shortened season, Bozak is (to my mind) the equivalent of a deadline rental. As has been noted, he will be a UFA at the end of the season, and as such, I believe Gillis could probably pick him up for perhaps only a third round (lower?) pick. Why include him in a deal for Luongo? And if he is in the Luongo deal, and he chooses to walk as a UFA, the deal then becomes Luongo for Kadri.

Kadri might indeed have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and has decided to play with a more professional attitude with regard to staying in shape and his interactions with the Leafs. This being said, if he is unhappy being down the depth chart of the Leafs, why would he be any happier being with the Canucks where he could only hope for 3C minutes until Sedin retires (maybe in two years, maybe longer)? I'm not saying he'd be awful as a Canuck, but he just may view the situation from a "What is best for Nazem Kadri?" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with this), and if he does, he just might walk as soon as possible to explore greener pastures. If that is the case, the deal then becomes Luongo for .....?

If the Komorov and Holzer additions are true, they might be nice additions, but they are hardly something to point to and say, "Hey, those are the guys we got for Luongo."

regards,

G.

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#1: Not true. Cody Hodgson is a very recent example of a guy who has neither. And he didn't even put up good numbers in the AHL.

#2: This is always a concern, but I don't think showing up to camp with a higher level of bodyfat means that this is the case. Maybe he's trying to put on weight. Bodyfat is often a result of trying to bulk up - not easy at all to gain "pure" muscle. Arniel had made some comments recently about Kassian that suggest that his commitment level might be questionable, too. I think what it often is with young "high-end" types they're so used to being dominant, without much effort, that that is no more when they hit the AHL.

#3 & #4, I haven't really seen enough of him to comment.

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Kadri has produced at every level. Even his 19 points in his first 51 NHL games (with limited minutes) isn't all that bad.

He's not big, but he's not small either. He can throw a decent hit - had more than 1/game in his NHL duty last season (about the same rate of hitting as Burrows). He isn't a soft player.

He may not be a defensive specialist, but he doesn't seem to be a liability. He had a takeaway ratio on par with Henrik Sedin last year. So he can create turnovers and get the puck back. Of course, we have lots of strong defensive specialist centers - what we could use is one more who can put the puck in the net.

To top all of this off, he just turned 22 in October. To say he has had every chance to crack an NHL roster ready is ridiculous, because he hasn't even had the chance to finish developing (not every kid is ready for the NHL right away).

What makes it even harder on him are the sky-high expectations of people like you, who were calling him a bust before he was even allowed to drink on a US road trip. Just because Toronto has slim pickings for offensively skilled prospects, doesn't mean Kadri will magically develop faster.

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I'm watching the Heat vs Rampage game right now and I'll tell you if the Canucks could get Shore and Petrovic along with a player like Matthias or Goc as well they should jump on that like fat kid on a smartie.

These kids are both players.

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Dude, you lost me at he can throw a decent hit...where on NHL 13? Lol...they guy is as soft as they come. The only difference between him and MayRay is Raymond falls down at least because he is skating fast...

Your comments clearly have not come from watching this guy play hockey. Call up any leaf fan and ask if they would want a Bozak/Kadri deal for Lou...they would laugh and say hell ya, if we can get Lou for spare parts and never makes it for sure..

Dude, people boo in the ACC when he plays...

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I didn't claim that he was the type of player going around crushing guys. All I did was point out the statmakers gave him over a hit-per-game last year. That is more than most of our Vancouver forwards. Pretty much double (per game) than Raymond.

If Leafs fans are in fact booing a 21 year-old kid just trying to figure out the NHL, then it is proof that they are complete morons. It is also proof that Kadri is carrying the weight of unfair expectations.

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Kadri has produced at every level. Even his 19 points in his first 51 NHL games (with limited minutes) isn't all that bad.

He's not big, but he's not small either. He can throw a decent hit - had more than 1/game in his NHL duty last season (about the same rate of hitting as Burrows). He isn't a soft player.

He may not be a defensive specialist, but he doesn't seem to be a liability. He had a takeaway ratio on par with Henrik Sedin last year. So he can create turnovers and get the puck back. Of course, we have lots of strong defensive specialist centers - what we could use is one more who can put the puck in the net.

To top all of this off, he just turned 22 in October. To say he has had every chance to crack an NHL roster ready is ridiculous, because he hasn't even had the chance to finish developing (not every kid is ready for the NHL right away).

What makes it even harder on him are the sky-high expectations of people like you, who were calling him a bust before he was even allowed to drink on a US road trip. Just because Toronto has slim pickings for offensively skilled prospects, doesn't mean Kadri will magically develop faster.

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"Positive", no, but these guys are hockey players, they're not bodybuilders. Kadri's probably trying to put on weight - which is a strategy. What do you think Brett Hull looked like without a shirt on? Not comparing them, but come on. A little bodyfat ain't going to hinder performance.

Somebody else brought up the fact that he's got 19 points in 51 NHL games. Not bad. And what you're saying is really no different to what a lot of people - myself included - were saying about Cody Hodgson in the summer of 2011. There were very, very serious concerns about his worth as a prospect. Hodgson had seriously underwhelmed in the AHL, and did not even have a particularly good training camp. But then when the games were on, he was very, very productive, and stayed that way until he was traded.

Kadri being in the AHL could well be strategic on the part of Burke/Nonis. Takes pressure off of him, doesn't burn entry-level years, etc.

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Here's an idea, since the compensation for an RFA of Luongo's salary is a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd, does anyone feel this would be a good price to pay in return for Luongo?

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Here's an idea, since the compensation for an RFA of Luongo's salary is a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd, does anyone feel this would be a good price to pay in return for Luongo?

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Here's an idea, since the compensation for an RFA of Luongo's salary is a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd, does anyone feel this would be a good price to pay in return for Luongo?

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