WiDeN Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 That'd be incredible. And I actually have a feeling that the Flames would have pretty decent interest in a guy like Mason Raymond. But we'd probably need to give a package along the lines of Raymond, Sauve, and a 1st. I'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 If that was the price, then we would have him already. They would be looking for Schroeder/Gaunce/Jensen in the deal for sure. I'd bet that we would have serious competition for Iginla if he were available, because I know Pittsburgh would love to have him, and could offer up a pretty sweet package. Edit: Why would any team not want Iginla? Unless we were willing to drop our trousers on the deal, I bet we would be out bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 He's not for sale, so the price at this point would be unknown. However, for a guy like him, a UFA-to-be, I wouldn't want to get too carried away. Roster player/good prospect/pick is a pretty good bid. If they'd want Schroeder/Gaunce/Jensen instead of Sauve & the 1st, fine. And as for why they might want to send him to Vancouver, see my above post's commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 You're making a lot of noise for a guy who's main point is that his plus/minus relative to the other Toronto Maple Leafs was bad, which is a very weak and largely irrelevant point. Plus/minus is a team-driven statistic. What happens if Kessel's on the ice, and Gunnarsson gives the puck away by himself, leads to a breakaway and a goal? Kessel's fault? There are way too many holes in the plus/minus stat to form an opinion of a player, which you seem to be clearly doing. Ignore his 100 goals accumulated over 3 seasons, focus on his relative plus/minus ranking. Which one is more black and white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Ok there - a little recap according to King: Hits don't matter - useless stat Shooting percentage doesn't matter - useless stat Plus/minus doesn't matter - useless stat. Shall we add relative corsi, save percentage, etc to the list... What does matter is KIng's opinion, which disregards all these things that 'don't matter.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Mason Raymond is a useful roster player. He happened to be whipping boy last year; NBD, Bieksa's been that once or twice, and almost certainly will before his high-priced new contract runs out. Next Canuck whipping boy to-be is David Booth; at least that's my prediction, anyway. Raymond's 27 years old; consider his resume: -Great speed -By all accounts, a great teammate -5 NHL seasons under his belt -51 playoff games played, included an SCF appearance -2 President's Trophy winning teams -25-goal, 53-point campaign in 2009-10 as a 24 year-old And further, for Calgary, he's an Alberta boy - Cochrane is 45 minutes out of Calgary. Some of Raymond's very best performances have come against the Flames. It would be a very reasonable gamble for them to then sign him to an extension - buying low, in effect - and hoping that he could sustain a spot on the second line, which I would call likely. EDIT: forgot to mention the reason for Calgary being willing to trade with us: Jarome Iginla himself. Vancouver's a 1-hour plane ride from Calgary. There's been a healthy level of respect between Jarome and the Canucks (remember Linden's sendoff, in '08?). I can't picture a more perfect complement to the twins than Jarome Iginla. And if Calgary sucks, and we don't, I wouldn't be all that surprised for something like that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 On hitting: it's unreliable. "Hit" means what, exactly? Hitting is also something where "severity" needs to be considered. IE, Burrows might have more total hits than Tootoo, but that's more a function of the ice-time that he's given. And who's do you think leave more of an impact? Is frequency more relevant than severity? Not reliable at all. Shooting percentage means nothing. Go ask Kyle Wellwood what a high shooting percentage has done for him in contract negotiations. Plus/minus tells you something, but not everything. Is everybody on Toronto a horrible defensive player, or is their team perhaps just not that good as a unit? And back to Kessel, how do you know that he's not instructed by his coach to loaf around and cherry-pick so as to produce offense/be exposed to breakaways as much as possible? Could well be strategic. Point? Ignoring 100 goals in 3 seasons playing in the most scrutinized market there is as a 22 - 25 year-old golden boy while also being ridiculed constantly because of Burke's trade "gaffe", yet harping on him having a very low plus/minus rating, is pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Fan boy much? Two olympic players and a So loosing Ballard, Raymond, UFA Edler, Solong Luongo and 2 low draft picks is strip mining the Canucks? And in return we get the option of keeping or trading 2 olympic (2012)players, a C prospect that is playing far better than any of our prospects in the AHL and an exptremely good D prospect. Sorry, but being a fan of the Nucks doesn't mean you have to be a home fanboy. I would say that Mike Gillis would be delerious if he was offered this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 On hitting: it's unreliable. "Hit" means what, exactly? Hitting is also something where "severity" needs to be considered. IE, Burrows might have more total hits than Tootoo, but that's more a function of the ice-time that he's given. And who's do you think leave more of an impact? Is frequency more relevant than severity? Not reliable at all. Shooting percentage means nothing. Go ask Kyle Wellwood what a high shooting percentage has done for him in contract negotiations. Plus/minus tells you something, but not everything. Is everybody on Toronto a horrible defensive player, or is their team perhaps just not that good as a unit? And back to Kessel, how do you know that he's not instructed by his coach to loaf around and cherry-pick so as to produce offense/be exposed to breakaways as much as possible? Could well be strategic. Point? Ignoring 100 goals in 3 seasons playing in the most scrutinized market there is as a 22 - 25 year-old golden boy while also being ridiculed constantly because of Burke's trade "gaffe", yet harping on him having a very low plus/minus rating, is pretty pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Mason Raymond is a useful roster player. He happened to be whipping boy last year; NBD, Bieksa's been that once or twice, and almost certainly will before his high-priced new contract runs out. Next Canuck whipping boy to-be is David Booth; at least that's my prediction, anyway. Raymond's 27 years old; consider his resume: -Great speed -By all accounts, a great teammate -5 NHL seasons under his belt -51 playoff games played, included an SCF appearance -2 President's Trophy winning teams -25-goal, 53-point campaign in 2009-10 as a 24 year-old And further, for Calgary, he's an Alberta boy - Cochrane is 45 minutes out of Calgary. Some of Raymond's very best performances have come against the Flames. It would be a very reasonable gamble for them to then sign him to an extension - buying low, in effect - and hoping that he could sustain a spot on the second line, which I would call likely. EDIT: forgot to mention the reason for Calgary being willing to trade with us: Jarome Iginla himself. Vancouver's a 1-hour plane ride from Calgary. There's been a healthy level of respect between Jarome and the Canucks (remember Linden's sendoff, in '08?). I can't picture a more perfect complement to the twins than Jarome Iginla. And if Calgary sucks, and we don't, I wouldn't be all that surprised for something like that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Who in the league would fit with the Sedins best? My vote is Iginla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Actually Jason Strudwick was on the Team 1260 say exactly this about hits. He was saying that the number of hits clutterbuck gets is completely overblown. If you look at his hits at home they are ridiculous, cause the homer stats guys feed him hits. He was also saying that he could go out and hit a bunch of guys, and then see 0 hits on the stats sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 That's fine, but it's a big stretch from Stamkos' 100+ to Kessel's 12 (apparently even the homer Leaf's stats guy can scarcely see him attempting to throw a 'hit'). Hits may not matter at all - if you are Nik Lidstrom - but this came out of a comparison of Stamkos to Kessel, where King suggested that Stamkos doesn't do anything but score / is the same kind of player as Kessel. Of course his 2nd best +/- relative to his Tampa team-mates is also meaningless, as is his better shooting percentage, his greater physical presence and no doubt all the other things that make him a vastly better player than Phil Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 On hitting: it's unreliable. "Hit" means what, exactly? Hitting is also something where "severity" needs to be considered. IE, Burrows might have more total hits than Tootoo, but that's more a function of the ice-time that he's given. And who's do you think leave more of an impact? Is frequency more relevant than severity? Not reliable at all. Shooting percentage means nothing. Go ask Kyle Wellwood what a high shooting percentage has done for him in contract negotiations. Plus/minus tells you something, but not everything. Is everybody on Toronto a horrible defensive player, or is their team perhaps just not that good as a unit? And back to Kessel, how do you know that he's not instructed by his coach to loaf around and cherry-pick so as to produce offense/be exposed to breakaways as much as possible? Could well be strategic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I don't see NJ trading Kovy after all they went through to sign him. They'll move other guys before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Luo hasnt been traded yet???lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Thanks for the laugh - that one was priceless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 That's fine, but it's a big stretch from Stamkos' 100+ to Kessel's 12 (apparently even the homer Leaf's stats guy can scarcely see him attempting to throw a 'hit'). Hits may not matter at all - if you are Nik Lidstrom - but this came out of a comparison of Stamkos to Kessel, where King suggested that Stamkos doesn't do anything but score / is the same kind of player as Kessel. Of course his 2nd best +/- relative to his Tampa team-mates is also meaningless, as is his better shooting percentage, his greater physical presence and no doubt all the other things that make him a vastly better player than Phil Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Please, you are reaching. Somehow I don't think that a single NHL player will have any hesitation about going into a corner with Steven Stamkos hot on his tail. Stamkos is a better player. Yes. But he's clearly not doing much besides providing offense, given Tampa's inability to make the playoffs. And again, I'll ask if John Tavares is part of the problem in Long Island, like you claim that Phil Kessel is in Toronto. Waiting for your answer on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I guess you've never seen Ilya Kovalchuk in action. And some guy who wore #44 for your Vancouver Canucks used to also do that quite regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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