WiDeN Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 And before Smith carried Phoenix, Bryzgalov carried Phoenix. Maybe Phoenix is the one doing the carrying, hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Toronto, Florida, Chicago, Edmonton / Long Island, Philadelphia, Columbus, whatever... It only takes one real team to be interested, with the perception that there is potentially a second reasonably serious team, for Luongo's trade value to be in the ballpark of where it belongs... Not much of a stretch really. Only King could see this situation as apocalyptic. And let's say King's highly, highly unlikely worst case scenario were the case, and there were only one team interested, offering an underpayment. The Leafs can posture, but they're certainly very interested - if they weren't they'd be playing the Bernier card as opposed to acknowledging that they are looking for a goaltender with more veteran credentials, essentially not merely leaking, but spilling and spilling that they want, in fact need a real deal like Luongo. Not ready to pay - Gillis simply hangs onto Luongo - until a mind or two changes... What would that disastrous reality look like? It would look like spending $1.125 million more for goaltending than the team that lost the ECF last year. The Rangers are spending $8.175 million on Lundqvist and Biron - and the thing about that is that it's not going to change. An extra 1.1 million (or 1.6% of the cap) is not as colossal an issue as some are suggesting (especially with the roster the Canucsk have) - and the thing about that - it's likely to change sometime soon - if not soon enough for some, still not a big deal. Luongo 'is what he is' - a hell of a lot better than what a number of teams are going to have to go with between the pipes. And there are always more possibilities than obviously meet the eye. I'm going to revisit my luongshot - Long Island. Nabokov - was a decent grab off waivers, but he's a UFA, will be 38 when it comes time to re-sign, and let's face it, isn't as sexy in the big city or as good a fit as Lu on Luongisland. Montoya? Meh - has potential, but isn't impressing, and regardless, the Isles need a backup and that's what he has to offer at this point. Dipietro is likely to join the ranks of Alex Yashin in the buyout category. It's making less and less sense to continue to pay him $4.5 against the cap when he is third on the depth charts behind a guy taken off waivers and a 28 year old 'prospect' who isn't yet panning out... Luongo, 2nd Kyle Okposo, Brock Nelson, Ville Pokka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 and again...thats just your spin on it...as no ones told you! have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I watched Smith a lot last winter and was really impressed by his technical ability and athleticism. I saw him get lit up once, but that happens. He is very focused and aggresive, roams enough to scare ya, but thats my only worry. I can see no reason why he will not continue to succeed and have no idea why he had not succeeded before. It might be like Reimer, a goalie coach who messed his game ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Phoenix had a lesser team with Smith, and made it to the western final with home ice advantage. You haven't used any sort of tangible discussion piece to back up your theory that Smith was a big part of the reason Phoenix did what they did. Smith was considered one of the best backups in the NHL when he was traded to Tampa. In fact, he had created a goalie controversy, because he was outplaying Turco. He was on a bad TB team that played run and gun offense without much concern for defense. I'm not surprised he failed there. He hasn't always been just a mediocre guy. He's always had a lot of potential. I don't think you're giving him enough credit. You make it sound like a couple sand bags with a stick wedged in between could have done the same job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 OK, but then you'll also need to acknowledge that the opposite is just your spin on it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 So was he just not technical/athletic in his previous 4 years in Dallas/Tampa Bay? Did he just learn how to play goalie properly on the Phoenix Coyotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kassassin Train Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I suggest you re-read the first post-Luongo trade threads. Maybe you'll change your stance on that one... This team will fall apart if Luongo is traded, like Apple post-Steve Jobbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 You sure about that? I recall them bringing in Raffi Torres & Antoine Vermette. I also recall seeing OEL emerging. Who did they lose? Turris? Not really, as he wasn't even playing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Did you not read my previous post. I have no idea why he had limited success elsewhere, but it certainly isn;t because hes not an awesome net minder. I did not know much about him before Phoenix, but is my observations that tell me hes the real deal. Why do you always have to argue points you know nothing about, Do you need the attention that badly.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I agree with King, Smith is a product of a good Phoenix system. Their system eliminates high scoring chances and all secondary opportunities. They allow a lot of shot from outside areas on purpose and then collapse on the net. The year before Phoenix he cleared waivers with TB, not one team wanted him. I am not saying Smith is a bad goalie as goalie coach Sean Burke has helped him out tremendously but he is a product of a well coached Phoenix team, just like Bryz was. Labarbera had a 2.54 GAA and .911 SP last year! Smith wouldn't be half as good on TB or Edm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 But just look at his #'s. - 38 Wins, 18 Losses, 10 OTL. (67 Games Played) - 8 Shutouts. - .930 SV% - 2.21 GAA - Averaged 30 SOG against per game Then in the playoffs: - 9 Wins, 7 Losses, 3 OTL. (16 GP) - 3 Shutouts - 0.944 SV% - 1.99 GAA - Averaged 37 Shots Against Per Game. The playoff #'s especially are astounding, I don't see Bryz doing that if he was still there. Maybe he didn't carrying his team completely 100% of the time but he was far and away the reason they did as well as they did IMO, and Shane Doan can surely attest to that. Who know's if he can continue it but last season he was certaintly there MVP, I don't see them doing nearly as well as they did without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Versace ESQ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Cellular phone bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I don't have a spin on it...thats the difference !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Did you not read my previous post. I have no idea why he had limited success elsewhere, but it certainly isn;t because hes not an awesome net minder. I did not know much about him before Phoenix, but is my observations that tell me hes the real deal. Why do you always have to argue points you know nothing about, Do you need the attention that badly.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Apple is not falling apart. They actually gained more users over the past quarter........so that's a terrible comparison....stick to hockey kid. Business talk is probably to complicated for the IQ level of CDC. http://techcrunch.co...the-first-time/ Yep sure sounds like they're falling apart..... http://www.bloomberg...adget-tech.html Apple's Latest iPhone Poised to Become Best Selling Gadget from Bloomberg. This coming from someone who dislikes the iPhone 5; to discredit Apple and their cult following because of the lack of a visionary such as Jobs is rather foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Bryz had 4 playoff games in 2010/11 and 7 in 2009/10. He had 35.9 and 36.5 shots against respectively those playoffs (using my previously defined calculation), but you could look at the people they faced each round if you want a further comparison. Would facing the Kings in 2011/12 who rolled over everyone potentially increase shots against for their opponents? That's more math than I have time for to break down each series. Granted, Bryz's GAA and Sv% wasn't as good in the playoffs, but then Phoenix never won a round while he was there. Phoenix beat Chicago in 6 (5 of his 7 OT games that playoffs were in that series), Nashville in 5 and then lost to LA in 5 with Smith. Maybe they don't get past the first round with Bryz instead of Smith or maybe it was Bryz that couldn't get them past the first round in previous years. I don't have enough evidence (visual or statistical) from those games to comment one way or the other, but it's my opinion that Phoenix wasn't as capable of beating Detroit either of the two previous years. All I'm saying is more shots doesn't prove Smith is a better goalie, and at this point he has one year on his resume worth talking about. I actually like Smith more than Bryz (unless you count interviewing skills) but we'll see if Bryz bounces back or if Smith regresses once games begin again. It's hard to put either at a solid 'elite' status at this point considering. Anyway, we've gotten sidetracked from Luongo discussion and we're debating Smith vs Bryz and Phoenix's system instead. Bryz's contract looks worse if he doesn't improve his play, where Luongo at least shows up in the regular season each year (whatever you think of his playoffs). If he does improve, or can be had cheaply in a trade for a team with money, he might be someone a team would go after. Luongo already is that, although you have to take all factors into account (including whatever the new CBA will be considering there's a lockout freeze on trade talks currently) to know who could be interested. I have to admit, I laughed. The true test would be a comparison of the quality of shots faced, just like I was talking about with the Bryz/Smith comparisons. More shots (or actually, saves) in general isn't indicative of a better goalie on it's own. It's not a bad stat, but neither is +/- and that doesn't paint a whole picture of someone's defensive ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Bryz and Lu have the exact same career gaa for regular season,,,if Pronger played more than a handful of games last year my bet is Bryz would have better numbers than Lu last season, as it was Lu was 2.41 and Bryz was 2.48, and with Bryz having a NMC Philly have zero options unless Bryz agrees, where as Lu with his NTC in worst case scenerio could be sent to the minors and depending on the new CBA not count against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Bryz had 4 playoff games in 2010/11 and 7 in 2009/10. He had 35.9 and 36.5 shots against respectively those playoffs (using my previously defined calculation), but you could look at the people they faced each round if you want a further comparison. Would facing the Kings in 2011/12 who rolled over everyone potentially increase shots against for their opponents? That's more math than I have time for to break down each series. Granted, Bryz's GAA and Sv% wasn't as good in the playoffs, but then Phoenix never won a round while he was there. Phoenix beat Chicago in 6 (5 of his 7 OT games that playoffs were in that series), Nashville in 5 and then lost to LA in 5 with Smith. Maybe they don't get past the first round with Bryz instead of Smith or maybe it was Bryz that couldn't get them past the first round in previous years. I don't have enough evidence (visual or statistical) from those games to comment one way or the other, but it's my opinion that Phoenix wasn't as capable of beating Detroit either of the two previous years. All I'm saying is more shots doesn't prove Smith is a better goalie, and at this point he has one year on his resume worth talking about. I actually like Smith more than Bryz (unless you count interviewing skills) but we'll see if Bryz bounces back or if Smith regresses once games begin again. It's hard to put either at a solid 'elite' status at this point considering. Anyway, we've gotten sidetracked from Luongo discussion and we're debating Smith vs Bryz and Phoenix's system instead. Bryz's contract looks worse if he doesn't improve his play, where Luongo at least shows up in the regular season each year (whatever you think of his playoffs). If he does improve, or can be had cheaply in a trade for a team with money, he might be someone a team would go after. Luongo already is that, although you have to take all factors into account (including whatever the new CBA will be considering there's a lockout freeze on trade talks currently) to know who could be interested. I have to admit, I laughed. The true test would be a comparison of the quality of shots faced, just like I was talking about with the Bryz/Smith comparisons. More shots (or actually, saves) in general isn't indicative of a better goalie on it's own. It's not a bad stat, but neither is +/- and that doesn't paint a whole picture of someone's defensive ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 If you were paying attention, you'd realize we weren't talking career numbers. What we're actually talking about is the difference in playing for Phoenix versus another Team (Bryz moving from good numbers with Phoenix to bad with Philly, and Smith moving from bad with Tampa to good with Phoenix) and then comparing Bryz's numbers last year after changing teams with Luongo's historical consistency in the regular season regardless of team. Also, if you'd been paying attention to the discussion throughout this thread and the others before it, waiving Loungo to the minors would mean we'd lose him for nothing when someone else picked him up. Even if he did succeed to pass waivers, one of the clauses being discussed in the new CBA is to have contracts in the AHL over a certain amount (likely $1M) still held against the NHL team's cap. I've ignored your posts due to them being generally uninformed to this point, but if you want to respond to me, get your facts straight please. EDIT: Clarified first paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.