sampy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Don't think so. I was living in Calgary up to about 2 - 3 months prior to him being traded. Obviously, he's not the friendliest guy out there, but there weren't any attitude issues. The trade was a complete shock when it happened. You say that he didn't improve the Leafs that much; maybe, but maybe they would've been even a lot worse had that trade not been made. And as for Calgary, they had finished with 98 points in 2008-09 (2 points behind your Vancouver Canucks), lost a hard-fought 1st round series to Chicago, and then added Jay Bouwmeester in the summer. Things were justifiably looking up. I believe they were tops in the NHL in November, then went on a slump in December, traded Phaneuf, then totally unraveled. That trade was a franchise-killer. You just don't trade a 24 year-old cornerstone defenceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Bieksa (31 years old): 425 GP, 42 G, 191 P, +24 Phaneuf (27 years old): 552 GP, 97 G, 312 P, +5 Phaneuf: 3X NHL All-star, WJC Gold, WC Gold Bieksa: .... I could tell you that Ryan Kesler's "no better than" Tyler Bozak, and that assertion would be about as valid as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEAN HARNETT Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Phaneuf has been put in a position to acquire those stats since he came in to the league, but Bieksa has had to start in the bottom pairing with no special teams TOI. Instead of career stats, let's look at the last two years. In the last two years Phaneuf's point total is 74, where Bieksa is 88. Phaneuf's +/- is -12, and Bieksa is +44 Advanced stats tell more of the story: As described by arcticicehockey.com, a Corsi Number is “the shot differential while a player was on the ice. This includes not just goals and shots on goal, but also shots that miss the net, and in some formulations, blocked shots. In other words, it’s the differential in the total number of shots directed at the net.” Phaneuf's Corsi averaged over the last 2 years is .9, and Bieksa's is 5.45 Phaneuf's On-Ice team save percentage is .912, and Bieksa's is .9275 In 5 on 4 situations (last year was the first year this stat was collected) when Phaneuf is on the ice the team shooting percentage is 13.55, and Kevin Bieksa's is 15.04 In 4 on 5 (also only collected last year) Phaneuf's Team On-Ice Save percentage was .866, and Bieksa's was .949 To sum up, my feeling is that Phaneuf's world junior performance and All Star nominations mean nothing to what he could bring to our team. I think he has been put in more situations to collect high-end stats, because his ceiling was initially projected higher than Bieksa's. In his early years he looked as though he could breakout in to a true #1 D-man, but never managed to achieve that status. I think what he brings to the team is no more than Bieksa brings for us already at a much better price. I haven't seen Garrison play, but I would assume that Phaneuf would land ahead of him on the depth charts were he here. All of the stats I posted could theoretically be brushed off by saying that Phaneuf was on the non playoff Leafs and Bieksa was on the President's Trophy Canucks, and I realize that, but I think it is more fair to compare their last two years, because in those two years their peaks have likely both been realized. Career accumulation isn't quite as telling, because like I said Phaneuf's early career was much different than Bieksa's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think alot of Bieksa's stats can be atributed to the type of team he plays on. Almost every forward back checks or plays a responsible two way game. I remember the last time Toronto came into Vancouver and it was obvious that the Leafs have nothing in team systems structure compared to the Canucks. It seemed like the Canucks were playing against a team from the BCHL rather then the NHL. That being said, I still really like BIeksa and wouldn't trade him away for anything less then a home run return. Phaneuf may thrive under the Canucks system if given the chance, but I don't really like the idea of bringing him in and risking it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Were you not the guy who said career accomplishments did not matter when you were comparing Luongo and Dubnyk? Or am I mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I completely disagree with calling him a cornerstone. He just isn't a defenceman that carrys a team. He'd be a great 3rd defenceman playing in the low 20s and should get paid less than 5 mil per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenDrinkin Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 When he left Calgary, he had played in 378 games, accumulating 75 goals and 228 points during that time. All this while both being probably the league's most feared hitter and only between the ages of 20 - 25. If that's not a cornerstone, I really don't know what is. Calgary was also a very, very strong team throughout those 4.5 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 He was good early in his career but disappeared shortly after. I think he was a joke by two seasons ago, do you not? But then, you also think he was the league's most feared hitter. What am I missing here? Why are we talking about Phaneuf? He sucks balls harder than any defenseman in the league, and it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 What am I missing here? Why are we talking about Phaneuf? He sucks balls harder than any defenseman in the league, and it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebeaune Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I don't post on this board much. The main reason? People Like King of E(verything) S(tupid). Can you people not see that his opinion means everything to him. There is no logic, no reasoning, no material fact that can't be twisted to suit his all important opinion. His insecurity leaps off the page and clouds any potential for rational judgement or reasoning. He can't be objective. There is no perspective except his own. It's not possible. Please stop feeding his insecurity and let the professionals do their job. Maybe then these posts won't get hijacked into the world according to King of E(go) S(entric). Man I'm tired of the drivel. PS: I know sentric is spelled centric. (Thanks King) Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I don't post on this board much. The main reason? People Like King of E(verything) S(tupid). Can you people not see that his opinion means everything to him. There is no logic, no reasoning, no material fact that can't be twisted to suit his all important opinion. His insecurity leaps off the page and clouds any potential for rational judgement or reasoning. He can't be objective. There is no perspective except his own. It's not possible. Please stop feeding his insecurity and let the professionals do their job. Maybe then these posts won't get hijacked into the world according to King of E(go) S(entric). Man I'm tired of the drivel. PS: I know sentric is spelled centric. (Thanks King) Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I don't post on this board much. The main reason? People Like King of E(verything) S(tupid). Can you people not see that his opinion means everything to him. There is no logic, no reasoning, no material fact that can't be twisted to suit his all important opinion. His insecurity leaps off the page and clouds any potential for rational judgement or reasoning. He can't be objective. There is no perspective except his own. It's not possible. Please stop feeding his insecurity and let the professionals do their job. Maybe then these posts won't get hijacked into the world according to King of E(go) S(entric). Man I'm tired of the drivel. PS: I know sentric is spelled centric. (Thanks King) Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinogator Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I cannot believe you people are still discussing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I guess your definition of "logic" and/or "reasoning" are the guys on here who expect to receive Yakupov, or Purcell/Aulie/1st for Luongo. Right? That sound pretty logical, to you? What about the guy who says that Dion Phaneuf is our 5th defenceman? A very factual statement, in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 And you're the guy that said the Canucks couldn't even get Magnus Paajarvi or Jeff Petry for not only Luongo but Keith Ballard as well. Once again you contradict yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 And you're the guy that said the Canucks couldn't even get Magnus Paajarvi or Jeff Petry for not only Luongo but Keith Ballard as well. Once again you contradict yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 thnks Ossi. I still think there is a strong chance Roberto doesn't get traded at all this season, even after the lockout ends. There would have been more urgency to trade him had Schneider not re-signed. Schneider may not have entered into a multi year extension had he thought Roberto will be here for another year. Now that Schneider is signed for 3 years Gillis has a lot more control. If the right deal does not present it self, Roberto will be a Canuck for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, Schneider will get a chance to be number 1 just as Roberto will. If Roberto is the better goalie he will continue to be the number 1 goalie on the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I agree, Roberto will be on our roster if the season finally begins. We likely won't need to lose salary for cap reasons till the next off season. There probably isn't an offer on the table for Roberto that makes sense. The only logical thing to do is wait until the season begins and see which teams need to re-evaluate in net. Or perhaps you could call it a conspiracy theory to keep this thread going as long as possible, so that CDC has something to talk about. My hunch is that Tampa may slump out of the gates, and come calling with an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 thnks Ossi. I still think there is a strong chance Roberto doesn't get traded at all this season, even after the lockout ends. There would have been more urgency to trade him had Schneider not re-signed. Schneider may not have entered into a multi year extension had he thought Roberto will be here for another year. Now that Schneider is signed for 3 years Gillis has a lot more control. If the right deal does not present it self, Roberto will be a Canuck for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, Schneider will get a chance to be number 1 just as Roberto will. If Roberto is the better goalie he will continue to be the number 1 goalie on the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 You must not know the definition of "contradiction". I never said anything about Petry. I said Luongo/Ballard for Paajarvi was an idea. And yes, I still doubt that the Oilers would do it. Problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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