Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 File these in the severe overpayment folder. Apparently Reilly has already succeeded Gardiner as the next premature god-send from Lalaland. Lol at those still in denial that if the Canucks move a goaltender, it will be Luo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 File these in the severe overpayment folder. Apparently Reilly has already succeeded Gardiner as the next premature god-send from Lalaland. Lol at those still in denial that if the Canucks move a goaltender, it will be Luo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 King - you never fail to amuse. Your logic is certainly creative - Lecavalier has a lot higher value than Luongo? You've outdone yourself once again. For all your talk about decline and albatross contracts, it's truly remarkable that you could sustain such a hard sell for Lecavalier. Ridiculous. Not as much demand in the market for starting goaltenders as borderline top 6 centers? Your credibility continues to skyrocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is Reilly really that bad of a deal? From what I've seen tossed around here I would think he would be better than Ashton, Franson, and as pick? No? I really don't believe in Gardiner as you stated he is a god-send from Lalaland, who really knows if he's any good. However, Reilly has never played for the Leafs so his hype is based on people's opinions that actually know hockey. I'd kill for one of these top notch D's I keep seeing going to every team but ours every year. Just looking for an opinion from someone that seems to at least watch hockey as I haven't seen Reilly all that much to be honest, but he was 5th overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think the major denial of this community is that, due to each player's contract structure, either can be had for "the right price". With this denial comes the refusal to assess Schneider's league value while drastically under estimating Luongo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think Reilly is outstanding - I am very impressed by what I've seen in the Subway Series - however I would not give up Luongo, Schroeder, Sauve, a 2nd AND take a terrible cap dump like Connolly in order to get him. For that type of return, a team better be sending a legitimate top 10 NHL defenseman (and sorry to the Phaneuf lovers in this thread, but he nowhere near qualifies.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 And again, more strong talk with nothing backing it up except one Canuck fan's biased views. Great job, as always. Lecavalier is younger than Luongo. Lecavalier's contract length is two years shorter than Luongo's. Though he hasn't been as good as when he was a Rocket Richard winner, this is still who had 49 points in 64 games last year. 54 in 65 the year before. Not excellent, but close to a point per game. Still a good player. Still a Cup winner. What "borderline" top-6 center do you know of that still averages 0.80 PPG in his two worst years of his career? And to your point about goaltenders, I'd list the following teams as potentially in the market for a starting goaltender: -Chicago -Columbus -Edmonton -Florida -Brooklyn -Toronto -Washington That's 7 teams. Compare that to the teams that might be interested in acquiring a bona-fide top-6 center: -Anaheim -Buffalo -Calgary -Chicago -Colorado -Columbus -Dallas -Detroit -Edmonton -Florida -Minnesota -Montreal -New Jersey -Brooklyn -Philly -Phoenix -Toronto -Winnipeg See the difference? A guy like Lecavalier is simply more scarce than a guy like Luongo. And for all of the talk about how badly Brian Burke would want to add Luongo, would Lecavalier not make even more sense for them? The 6'4" Sundin replacement? Not that Vinny would ever waive his NTC to go there, but think about it. Give me Phaneuf over either of them without much of a second thought. Hamhuis is a good 2-3, Edler's a 1B right now, I'd say. Too inconsistent and easily nerved out of games. Phaneuf's toughness gives him the clear edge, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I agree with this, though the same could be said for Luongo's and Schneider's potential destinations: Luongo NTC - player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; if player does not submit trade list at that time, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018). If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018. Cap Hit: $5,333,000.00 Length of Contract: 10 years remaining Actual Salary 2012-2013 - $6,714,000 - 33 2013-2014 - $6,714,000 - 34 2014-2015 - $6,714,000 - 35 2015-2016 - $6,714,000 - 36 2016-2017 - $6,714,000 - 37 2017-2018 - $6,714,000 - 38 2018-2019 - $3,382,000 - 39 2019-2020 - $1,618,000 - 40 2020-2021 - $1,000,000 - 41 2021-2022 - $1,000,000 - 42 (Hasek retired at 43 years old) FLORIDA - Luongo's prefered destination, Tallon doesn't want him, but wants Schneider CHICAGO - Vancouver's favorite enemy TORONTO - Rumored refused by Luongo, denied rumor by both Gillis and Burke Schneider: No clauses Cap Hit: $4,000,000.00 Length of contract: 3 years Actual Salary 2012-2013 - $3,500,000.00 2013-2014 - $4,000,000.00 2014-2015 - $4,500,000.00 FLORIDA COLUMBUS TAMPA BAY BOSTON WINNIPEG TORONTO COLORADO CALGARY EDMONTON ANAHEIM MINNESOTA SAN JOSE CHICAGO DETROIT OTTAWA WASHINGTON NEW JERSEY PHILADELPHIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 And again, more strong talk with nothing backing it up except one Canuck fan's biased views. Great job, as always. Lecavalier is younger than Luongo. Lecavalier's contract length is two years shorter than Luongo's. Though he hasn't been as good as when he was a Rocket Richard winner, this is still who had 49 points in 64 games last year. 54 in 65 the year before. Not excellent, but close to a point per game. Still a good player. Still a Cup winner. What "borderline" top-6 center do you know of that still averages 0.80 PPG in his two worst years of his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yeah King, teams are going to be lined up to take on Lecavalier's 7.7 million cap hit - and in case you haven't noticed, his declining production is far more obvious than your tenuous claims about Luongo - who by the way is a goaltender - there happen to be a few 40 year old guys performing at a very high level in the NHL at that position - who is the oldest top 6 center that you can think of? And by the way - Lecavalier would be a third line center in Vancouver. 1) Hank 2) Kesler 3) Lecavalier Which guy, Hank or Kesler, is Lecavalier going to displace? And like Phaneuf is relative to Hamhuis and Edler, Lecavailier's cap hit is 1.6 and 2.7 million higher than Hank or Kesler's. See the similarity? Phaneuf - third pairing guy at 6.5 million. Lecavalier - third line center at 7.7 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 H. SEDIN LECAVALIER KESLER No point in judging salary over talent. It makes no sense at all. If Lecavalier were to become available. he would instantly slot in on 2C, as would Marleau. Kesler on the other hand would have to be taken aside and convinced that, for the betterment of the team, he would be on the third line; the most important of all forward positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 H. SEDIN LECAVALIER KESLER No point in judging salary over talent. It makes no sense at all. If Lecavalier were to become available. he would instantly slot in on 2C, as would Marleau. Kesler on the other hand would have to be taken aside and convinced that, for the betterment of the team, he would be on the third line; the most important of all forward positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have nothing against Lecavalier - just his contract. It's bad now, and it will only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Schneider signed a contract before testing the RFA waters - a serious team-player kind of move. Would he have done that if he were under the impression that he is a trade chip? I think it's pretty clear to most people that Gillis intends to keep Schneider and that whether or not Luongo is dealt is the only real contingency here. I certainly don't underestimate Luongo's value - which is why I think a deal where he is thrown in, with a first round pick/prospect like Schroeder, another solid depth blueline prospect like Sauve, a 2nd round pick, and on top of that, take back a cap dump in order to land a 5th overall pick is an extreme, extreme undervaluation of Luongo. Toronto offered Schenn - a 5th overall who is also a relatively proven NHL defenseman - which Gillis, imo, rejected for good reason. Luongo certainly has a lot more value than a 7.7 million dollar 49 point top 9 center like Lecavalier - and he is certainly worth a 1st round pick, and imo, a prospect in addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 In RFA waters you mean holding out, tarnishing his name and preventing himself from playing the game he loves? If I threw 12 million dollars at you, you'd sign the contract too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yeah King, teams are going to be lined up to take on Lecavalier's 7.7 million cap hit. I'm sure the only reason he is still in Tampa is because he has rejected the blockbuster offers that Yzerman has been receiving for him. In case you haven't noticed, his declining production is far more obvious than your tenuous claims about Luongo - who by the way is a goaltender - there happen to be a few 40 year old guys performing at a very high level in the NHL at that position - who is the oldest top 6 center that you can think of? One minute you are on and on claiming the Sedin's production is declining, the next you are on and on about a hard sell of Lecavalier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Seriously? "Two worst year of his career"? Or, more likely, his first two years of decline from his prime? A decline that will likely continue through the 2015-16 season, even though he's still due 10 million per year. And a decline that will likely become even steeper from 2016-20, where he'll still have a 7.7 million cap hit. Luongo would immediately become the best goalie on about 2/3 of the teams in the league. And his cap hit is actually below average for a veteran starting goaltender. Whereas Lecavalier wouldn't be the best forward on any team...except maybe Columbus. And his cap hit is one of the highest in the league. Add in the fact that goaltenders usually maintain more effectiveness in their late-30's than skaters, and your whole argument is complete lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have nothing against Lecavalier - just his contract. It's bad now, and it will only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Really? Who? Who are these 40 year-old goalies performing at a very high level? The fact is that there are 0 40 year-old goalies in the top 30 of the NHL's SVP leaders. Do feel free to continue on with your hyperbole, though, such as Lecavalier being a 3rd line C. Just hilarious. Dion Phaneuf on the Vancouver Canucks' third pair. Let me guess - Sid Crosby would be right behind Jordan Schroeder on the Wolves' 2nd PP unit, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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