Smashian Kassian Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Me neither so THERE. lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Alright, it's official, King is a troll. No one in their right mind would believe that Bouwmeester is worth 6.7, Phaneuf worth 6.5 or Lecavalier worth 7.5. It's safe to say that not a single GM out there would want these contracts coming back in any trade, nonetheless for an all-star starting goaltender. It was a wild ride, but let's face it, a majority of what King posts is incendiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Alright, it's official, King is a troll. No one in their right mind would believe that Bouwmeester is worth 6.7, Phaneuf worth 6.5 or Lecavalier worth 7.5. It's safe to say that not a single GM out there would want these contracts coming back in any trade, nonetheless for an all-star starting goaltender. It was a wild ride, but let's face it, a majority of what King posts is incendiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfxHaley Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 D-Mo is making point after point about Lecavalier's decline, and the fact that it'll likely get worse. That being the case, it is reasonable for me to counter with the notion that it is likely Luongo will also get worse - like he has been since 2007, what appears to have been his peak. You bring up Martin Brodeur as an example - playoffs notwithstanding, his year was not good. Nor was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Phaneuf was traded to Toronto on his current contract, Boumeester is rumored going to Detroit and Lecavalier exercised his NTC against a trade to Montreal after the 2009 all star game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Maybe, just maybe, that's how bad the team actually is. It is my fear that such success as we're experiencing is but an illusion that will cease in the event of a Luongo trade. As with mentors in any field including corporate and religious organizations, having a mentor, an example to follow, makes everyone better. an excellent example would be the death of Steve Jobbs at Apple; Apple suddenly finds itself much less creative and projections is the $600+ shares today will fall flat withing three years. Luongo keeps all players on the team as accountable as the organization with an expected high work ethic, personal goal achievement; diet, daily routine, sleep patern, buying in the system, and subsequently on-ice performance. Schneider, who is 26 years old, has been mentored by Luongo, a 33 year old veteran, if only by sheer observation of Luongo's daily activities. I do not foresee Schneider having such an influence on his pers as Luongo does. Take out Luongo and you might take out the Canucks altogether. This is not so much about Schneider's performance, talent or spirit; it is more about having an aged goaltender who leads by example day in, day out. Goaltenders are finicky, whoever they are. Historically, most goaltenders have lived an isolated life. They have been awkward with media and have been kept away from the mics and cameras. Goaltending is a world where solitude often meets loneliness. The media seldom talked to Roy for anything. Brodeur doesn't do that many interviews either. In fact, when seldom seen, a greater aura of intrigue is created and intrigue can even lead to an aura of divinity. Luongo's sole problem is he has been exposed to everyone too often through the media and so the mystery, the aura, is gone. This does not mean he cannot gain it back, like his prior form. Goaltenders like Luongo, Hasek, Brodeur and Roy are also known to perform better in their later years and when left to their own. Look at Thomas' awkwardness with the media. Luongo is not far behind. It has nothing to do with Schneider and everything to do with the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fatigue Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Phaneuf was traded to Toronto on his current contract, Boumeester is rumored going to Detroit and Lecavalier exercised his NTC against a trade to Montreal after the 2009 all star game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 His NTC hadn't kicked in yet, so that would be impossible. These are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 you said his cap hit is "acceptable" you say other teams fans think he is "way overpaid". so are you wrong, or are the fans of other teams wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I would love for people to stop trying to police a hockey discussion for "intelligence" - so that we can simply proceed in an inclusive way, without attempts to exclude posters who are inoffensive, but not perceived by some to be as "intelligent" as themself. You are free to use your "ignore preferences" to ignore the posts, signatures, or messages of any users. There is probably also the option of creating an "intelligent conversations" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Alright, it's official, King is a troll. No one in their right mind would believe that Bouwmeester is worth 6.7, Phaneuf worth 6.5 or Lecavalier worth 7.5. It's safe to say that not a single GM out there would want these contracts coming back in any trade, nonetheless for an all-star starting goaltender. It was a wild ride, but let's face it, a majority of what King posts is incendiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Yes, you are right. It was before his NMC kicked in, though he was assured at the time he was not being shopped, as he also mentioned liking it in Tampa Bay. Point is, there is a market for good players whatever the contract. Nash is a good example of such a recent move: six years left at $7,800,000.00 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 On Paajarvi v. Kassian. You're using the "more opportunity" example, yes? You're right, but the problem with that argument is that you still have to deliver. Paajarvi did - in his rookie year, anyway. Kassian had plenty of opportunities last year after arriving on this team, and the season ended with him watching the game from the press box. And again, I'll remind you that I'm not saying that I'd rather have Paajarvi than Kassian, I'm saying that they're of roughly equivalent trade value. On Bieksa v. Phaneuf. I just don't buy those "advanced" stats. A bunch of guys trying to be the Bill James of the NHL. The problem is that hockey is a much more teammate-dependent game and individual performance can't really be broken down beyond goals, assists, sort of +/-, and then the various eye tests (skating, passing, shooting, etc.). Bieksa's a guy who, IMO, has always had an unjustified "tough guy" billing. He's had serious inconsistency issues, being this team's whipping boy on multiple years. Not a great skater, not a great shot, not a great passer. Decent in all, not great. His leadership skills are evident, as is his personality, which is why he's (at the moment) so well-liked - but, given the pattern of his career, it would not surprise me one bit to see him become this team's whipping boy once again, at some point throughout the tenure of his next contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I was making an example of the element of bias. Most Vancouver fans think that Luongo is pretty good value, while Lecavalier's an albatross. My guess is that most Tampa Bay fans would think the inverse of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Very true - I recall Lecavalier making noise about not wanting to be moved to Montreal. It's very unfortunate, but I think he's content with the Florida life of big (tax-free) dollars and relative anonymity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 On Bieksa v. Phaneuf. I just don't buy those "advanced" stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If that is true, what does that say about his drive, character, will to win? Doesn't want to play in a hockey market. I understand why a french guy may not want the pressure cooker of Montreal, but is that kind of floating-on-a-fat-wallet on a sunny beach in comfort likely to improve the Canucks? Some people here complained ceaselessly about offering a guy like Doan, who happens to fit exactly the profile of the kind of player the Canucks need in the present, a two year contract worth millions less than Lecavalier would make. Doan is a hungry player who has never won, with drive, loyalty, leadership qualities, a strong physical two-way game, etc. Lecavalier? What's he got left to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If that is true, what does that say about his drive, character, will to win? Doesn't want to play in a hockey market. I understand why a french guy may not want the pressure cooker of Montreal, but is that kind of floating-on-a-fat-wallet on a sunny beach in comfort likely to improve the Canucks? Some people here complained ceaselessly about offering a guy like Doan, who happens to fit exactly the profile of the kind of player the Canucks need in the present, a two year contract worth millions less than Lecavalier would make. Doan is a hungry player who has never won, with drive, loyalty, leadership qualities, a strong physical two-way game, etc. Lecavalier? What's he got left to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Ok, you seem to like the simpler scoring stats - let's look at some simpler stats then. Dion Phaneuf led the Leafs in pp ice time - a whopping 67.5% pp toi - he managed 44 points. Kevin Bieksa had 31.2% pp toi - the lowest % of pp ice time of all NHL defensemen in the top 20 in scoring - he had 44 points. Phaneuf's situational advantages clearly didn't translate - playing with point a game forwards on the Leafs top pp unit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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