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Templeton Peck

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0

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only your humble opinion...and your credentials are what to evaluate Lou?

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that's ironic - I haven't given an evaluation of Luo - and you haven't responded to anything of substance - which I've pointed out to you a number of times already. That hasn't stopped you from judging my "evaluation" to be wrong, which I find humorous to be honest...Up to your last post, all I've heard from you are a couple of one liners which didn't really engage any specific points.

Credentials? I suppose the next step is for you to show me how far you can piss in goaltender-speak?

Your evaluation - that the Canucks have "lost faith" in Luongo, is oblivious to the context. There would be no trade talk were it not for the emergence of Schneider. They wouldn't be considering moving Luongo were it not for the fact that Schneider has simply emerged and forced the issue - Schneider has been slowly and methodically pretty much unstoppable. It's not a question of a "lack of faith" in Luongo - the Canucks have certainly never expressed that. Luongo was the first person to suggest that he might have to move on to make room for Cory, at the conclusion of the LA series. It's an issue of a great deal of confidence in what the young goaltender has shown. That doesn't make Luongo chopped liver.

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yur sounding like ES..as if you have all the answers....lack of confidence in one goes hand in hand with increased confidence in another. Lous lack, of playoff consistancy is simply a matter of record ! Lous inability to mirror schneiders stats are a result of poor form, technique and predictability. Put your emotional involvement aside and see it for what it actually is. Your opinion is no more correct than mine...its all opinions.

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and...maybe your assessment is wrong...Lous an aging, middle of the pack goalie with some serious flaws in his physical and mental game who has not proven to be consistant in the playoffs....whats that worth on the market? The Canucks appear to have chosen Schneids going forward...ever ask yourself why? Maybe management have lost faith in Lou....and teams will research why.

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Luongo was also responsible for keeping the team in many games of the 2011 Stanley Cup run. Roberto will be traded, but the return will be significant. He is still an elite netminder regardless of his age. Seriously smurf. Being buddies with King of the ES is taking it's toll on the quality of your posts.

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That's ironic. You're the one here parrotting King's points and agreeing with him. You also share the tendency to jump the gun and presume to know what another person is thinking - without referring to what they've actually said.

Are you the mini-me version of King?

I have no emotional attachment/involvement - I have never been a big Luongo fan - I prefer Schneider and think people like King who complain that Gillis didn't move Schneider earlier are out to lunch. But that doesn't change that fact that Luongo is clearly a very good goaltender. I have never considered Luongo to be the best in the world, the best in Canada, or the best in the NHL - but he is obviously not a guy you cap-dump, throw on waivers, trade for Komisarek, or fight for table scraps to get rid of - some of the crap that has been thrown around here on CDC (and in Toronto) - and that stuff is simply dense. You lack confidence in him - fine - but you lack of confidence goes hand in hand with increased confidence in another is convoluted thinking.

Luongo isn't perfect - he has technical flaws, doesn't have the greatest mental fight/game - but that doesn't change that he has accomplished things like 339 wins, lifetime .919 sv%, Olympic gold, Jennings trophy... and has been better and more consistent than the majority of NHL goaltenders. There are a whole lot of imperfect athletes - and when you are talking goaltenders, some great goaltenders have had some quirky 'technical' approaches to the game. Luongo would be an upgrade for many teams in the NHL - it's that simple.

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I'm predicting the Luongo trade will happen shortly after a CBA is signed. I fully expect a decent prospect and a serviceable roster player.

Judging by how our prospects are playing right now we might not need either. Schroeder, Tanev, Lack, Connauton and Kassian all look ready for the jump. Another year on Jensen and all the sudden we're stacked with home grown talent.

Once again I just hope Raymond is packaged in the deal.

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Luongo is currently 33 yrs old. You are making a lot of assumptions in your statement, such as Luongo will be the back up. Anyone can spew an argument based on assumptions because they have no validity, they are mere speculation. I'm curious why you strongly believe Luongo's value will not rise? You seem pretty adamant on this theory, would like to hear the reasoning.

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He's 34 years old in January.

It's not much of an assumption that he'll be the backup; Schneider won the starter's job in the playoffs and it's now his chance to lead the team. Most people acknowledge this, even though it may not have been stated as fact. If he wasn't going to be our starter, he probably would not have been signed to a 3 year, $12M contract. Backup goalies usually go for a little less.

As for Luongo's value not rising, of course it won't. The market is already soft, and he's now our backup. How can his value possibly rise if he does nothing but age on our bench? It won't. That's an assumption, yes, but I can't see any alternative direction from which his value would go. Can you?

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I have never considered Luongo to be the best in the world, the best in Canada, or the best in the NHL - but he is obviously not a guy you cap-dump, throw on waivers, trade for Komisarek, or fight for table scraps to get rid of - some of the crap that has been thrown around here on CDC (and in Toronto) - and that stuff is simply dense.
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It is an assumption to say he'll be a back up, unless you can find proof otherwise. Gillis has already stated, if both goalies are here, they'll be competing for ice time like everyone else.
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Yeah, right. Gillis also said that he qualified MA Gragnani. You shouldn't believe everything that you hear Mike Gillis say.

If Schneider's not our starter, he just signed a backup to a $12M deal.

I've provided many logical reasons why. I'll again use a real estate analogy. Why is it always so important to sell your home quickly, after it's been listed? Because if it doesn't sell quickly, you're usually getting a message from the market that your price is too high, and will need to be adjusted downward. This isn't really different.

And again, speaking like a reasonable person, if Luongo does turn out to be our backup this year (I'll say "if" to prevent you from using the silly "assumption" retort), how exactly will an older goalie with a very significant contract's value increase as he's sitting on somebody else's bench? Think about it. Again, I will bring up Cristobal Huet in Chicago. Definitely not as decorated a goalie as Luongo, but his contract wasn't as significant, either.

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It's true about Gragnani. But Gillis is the GM of the Canucks, and until anyone can prove one goalie will be the starter - then his word is all we have. Anything else is opinion.

The real estate market and sporting markets are apples and oranges. Real estate markets are open and complex. They are influenced by mortgage/interest rates, value of the dollar as well as supply/demand etc. Sporting markets such as the NHL are small and limited. There are only 30 NHL teams meaning limited commodities and they are influenced by internal factors. You're better off sticking with a supply/demand argument.

So you're asking me to make your argument for you? You've yet to state a reason why Luongos value will decrease as the season goes on. How does aging by a few months directly equate to decrease in trade value? Does Crosby value decrease in 4 months cause he's getting older? I'm not seeing the logic.

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Luongos value has decreased by the fact that he had a mediocre year last year and was middle of the pack on a first place team. As we all have seen, Lou is a slow starter in the season and a years layoff will not be in his best interests. There can be no assumption that his game will rebound, unless he fixes whats broken. So, being another year older does have a bearing on a lot of scenarios. MG has stated he has two #1 goalies, which I believe is a marketing strategy. It sounds better than Lou the backup !! Unless Lou plays during the lockout, it will take even longer for him to find his stride. Playing on a great team almost always improves a goalie. There are many goalies that would benefit and aquit themselves well playing for the Canucks. Lou is expendable and its tme to go...for whatever we can get that improves the team.

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Ben Kuzma tweets: Leafs goalie James Reimer skating with Canucks. Perhaps a Bieksa Buddy for charity game.

Cue the Luongo to Toronto...

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The real estate market and sporting markets are apples and oranges. Real estate markets are open and complex. They are influenced by mortgage/interest rates, value of the dollar as well as supply/demand etc. Sporting markets such as the NHL are small and limited. There are only 30 NHL teams meaning limited commodities and they are influenced by internal factors. You're better off sticking with a supply/demand argument.

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Would you prefer a different analogy king?

You have a very nice car. People really would like to have it. (Do I need to re-quote Dreger on Nonis and Luongo? probably, but I'm not going to)

You have a ticket to a lottery and win another very nice car - newer, and even a little faster.

You decide to sell your other car.

After all, you can only drive one car at a time. But then again, there is no brand of car that never needs servicing - in which case, you could just use or need another car.

You aren't really desperate for the money or the space, but who knows, perhaps you'll find a pick-up you could use more.

The first guy that shows up to have a look is one of those guys. You know there are a couple other guys interested - they've called to inquire what your asking price is. This guy kicks the tires, he searches and nit picks - he obviously wants the car - but he's playing a game most of us can easily identify, otherwise he wouldn't be making the effort... He's attempting to justify a low ball offer. In effect, this whole part of the process is a waste of time.

You'd have to be an idiot to sell to that first guy for his first low ball offer. You let him walk away. If he wants the car, he'll have to come back with a ball park offer, particularly when you know there is no other comparable car on the market.

All you've missed out on is a lowball offer that'll be available anytime. Once winter comes, that guy is going to need that car - that would be a better time to sell.

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The only trouble with this analogy is that everyone has seen how this car (Luongo) performs on the highway (playoffs). He's very good in town (regular season) but everytime you want to go for a lengthy trip in the springtime this car breaks down and everybody watches you ride home on the bus while your 5.33 million dollar car is hooked to a tow truck.

Not too many people would break down your door to buy that from you.

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Lu and Schneider were the only reason the Canucks won the Presidents. The team played horrible in front of them yet they carried the team and kept winning.

The year before he was Canada's best goalie, which is why he started the gold medal match.

Then Lu played good in the 2011 playoffs coming 1 game away from winning it all while the offense was non-existent.

Saying Lu has little value is just further proof how rediculous the Canucks fanbase is. He would be a massive upgrade in goal for a lot of teams. Goaltending is the most important position on the ice. Crosby with Reimer in goal would not win games.

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