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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#361 TmanVan

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:39 PM

Chicago: Trading him there without getting a big piece back (Hossa, Sharp, exc.) would be a career killer for MG. And I dont see any chance of them giving up a big piece. So what are we gunna get? Stalberg? They probably won't move Leddy, maybe Hjalmalsson but that's not a need we have a solid top 4, so what are we gunna get? Nothing, it won't work. if we give that core a star goaltender, then Idk how we will be able to beat them in the playoffs. This doesn't seem likely at all.

Tampa Bay: Stevie Y was interested in Schneider, the only way he wants Lu is if Lecavalier goes the other way, that's the only way. and No thanks to that, even if we only do have to eat up 3.5-4 million of it, (which might not even be the case, who knows what will be in CBA) but either way he isn't worth it, he isn't the 100 point player he was, he isn't even the 70 point player, who knoe's if he is even a 60 point player, I would say his best now is 40-50, he's aging, hes not worth the contract, I would rather just get Bozak rather than him. And they won't give us anything else that is really appealing.

New Jersey: If there playoff run proved anything it is that Marty Brodeur can still play at a high level, and with the contract they just signed him too there is no chance they will want Lu, and what are they gunna give us? They lost a few big pieces from there run, Parise, Ponikarovsky. So now that there line-up is greatly weaker what can they afford to give us? Nothing, it's not a likely scenerio at all.

Edmonton: Idk why Botch had to bring this up, there not going to give us anything big, and they dont really have alot that they could give us, plus it's probably not a huge priority for them, Dubnyk has been getting better and better, he has shown he can give them a chance to win and improving there defense is probably a much bigger priority for them as apposed to improving there goaltending. Very unlikely aswell.

Columbus: Lu won't waive his NTC to go there, and even if he would somehow, when you really think about it. why would they want him? sure a goalie like Luongo would be nice for them for sure but why would they want to do it at the price MG will want? They are a young team, they just lost there star, they aren't really in playoff contention, they are just building to a better future, why would they want to trade assets for a 33 year old goalie like Luongo. when those asset's could pay off in a much bigger way in the future when they are a good team? Unlikely aswell.

San Jose: They have Niemi, who is a starter and what are they gunna give us? Clowe. That's maybe it, but I dont know if they would do it and idk if I even want him, we wouldn't be able to get the same value and I highly doubt they even want him, Niemi has been fine, it's not Luongo is gunna be a huge difference maker, he's not gunna do a ton more than Niemi already has, that team has a decent goalie, they need to start getting younger and fix up some area's of there team, and right now I don't think goaltending is huge priority for them, not to mention there isn't alot they would be willing to part ways with. Again probably not likely.

Washington: They have 2 young goalies there, both played well (Neuvirth in the season, Holtby in the playoffs) those two can carry that team just fine as a tandem, then they can focus there assets on improving there forward group, and the rest of there skaters. There goaltending has been fine, it's not an issue at all as we saw in the playoffs, if anything it iss a strong point right now, they have other things to focus on.

Ottawa: Why? Anderson is fine for the time being and they have two good young goalies up and coming in Bishop and Lehner, then behind them Driedger isn't bad either. There team isn't ready to contend, last year was just a pleasant surprise, not saying they won't make the playoffs but right now they just have to go through this transition period where all there good young talent develops and replaces the old talent. This isn't them building into a cup contender. so since there not a contender, there is no reason to waste assets that could be better served later on.

NY Islanders: Similar thing to Columbus, they are young, they are waiting for there young talent to develop and the goaltending they have right now is good enough to hold the fort until Poulin can take the torch, and why would they want 2 goalies on lifetime contracts cause there is no way Dipietro is coming back our way.

Again, I dont see the same fit in any of these other teams like I do in Florida or Toronto, and right now Toronto seems the best.


You make some good points, but at the same time quoting from what I said earlier

" I think people are underestimating how quickly a teams situation can change. If Luongo does end up starting the season with the Canucks there are numerous scenarios that can take place over a relatively short period of time."

Just so we're clear, I was just laying out random scenario's... not saying that they are likely to happen, but just saying there is a chance that anything could happen.
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#362 oldnews

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:00 PM

from bad to worse
now some people here willing to take a 4.75 million waste of cap space in Connolly...




Those people who think he will waive his NTC to go to Columbus have no clue what they are talking about.

Yes he made those comments but that was more directed at the notion that he wouldn't go to Toronto.

He earned his NTC, and why would he want to waive it to go to Columbus, think about it? He would rather stay here then go there.


Who thinks Luongo will wind up in Columbus? I must have missed that post.
Regardless, there are more possibilities than Toronto or Florida, even if they are the most likely.
I don't like Chicago or San Jose as options and New Jersey may be the least likely of all.
I think you are underestimating what Edmonton could have to offer - and Washington might make more sense than you suggest. Florida also has an elite prospect - why would they be more interested than Edmonton or Washington? Because Luongo is a veteran proven quantity.
Really, as long as there are two or three teams in the mix there is enough demand that there will be a reasonable return - and no need to take back a garbage cap dump in a deal. If unwanted salary is going to come back I could see someone like Upshall (who has a reasonable chance of actually contributing) being a concession to get Bjugstad included in the deal. Toronto's assets are not attractive enough to warrant taking back dead wood like Connolly.

In the spirit of repetition:
Luo and a depth player/pick for Bjugstad, Petrovic and Upshall (who can play either wing / can be used at RW).

Theodore to Toronto for (who cares).

Edited by oldnews, 22 October 2012 - 08:05 PM.

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#363 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:57 PM

Luongo for Seabrook or Keith.

Get her done, Gillis.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#364 oldnews

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:10 PM

Seabrook. Yes.

If people can talk crap like Lecavalier or Kadri, why not talk big like Seabrook?

Every bit as reasonable.

Luongo for Eberle. Straight up. Get er done!!! :bigblush:

Edited by oldnews, 22 October 2012 - 09:16 PM.

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#365 Lui's Knob

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:33 PM

If the season is wiped out none of this will matter but here's a thought : what if there's a 3 way deal between van edm and tor brewing? Gagner, Franson, kadri and picks coming to Vancouver perhaps?


Edited by Here's Johnny, 22 October 2012 - 10:38 PM.

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#366 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

You make some good points, but at the same time quoting from what I said earlier

" I think people are underestimating how quickly a teams situation can change. If Luongo does end up starting the season with the Canucks there are numerous scenarios that can take place over a relatively short period of time."

Just so we're clear, I was just laying out random scenario's... not saying that they are likely to happen, but just saying there is a chance that anything could happen.


Yes but I dont think that, so lets so Bryzgalov lets in 25 goals in 3 games, are they going to make a deal for Luongo? Probably not.

It would take more than a few days for that to happen if it did happen, and it could always go the other way too.

Riemer could begin to play really well out of the gates, and Toronto could be leading the division two or 3 months into the season, would they need Luongo then? No and then if Riemer did faulter they wouldn't be as eager to go to Luongo because now they know that Riemer can play well so they would just wait it out untill he got his game back.

I just think if we can get a deal right now that makes sense, we should take it, we have already waited it out for 2 months and look where we are now, the same place we were at the begining, with two teams. Florida and Toronto. If we get a deal that is good enough for the fans to accept, and makes us better in some area, than I would do it now.
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#367 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

from bad to worse
now some people here willing to take a 4.75 million waste of cap space in Connolly...






Who thinks Luongo will wind up in Columbus? I must have missed that post.
Regardless, there are more possibilities than Toronto or Florida, even if they are the most likely.
I don't like Chicago or San Jose as options and New Jersey may be the least likely of all.
I think you are underestimating what Edmonton could have to offer - and Washington might make more sense than you suggest. Florida also has an elite prospect - why would they be more interested than Edmonton or Washington? Because Luongo is a veteran proven quantity.
Really, as long as there are two or three teams in the mix there is enough demand that there will be a reasonable return - and no need to take back a garbage cap dump in a deal. If unwanted salary is going to come back I could see someone like Upshall (who has a reasonable chance of actually contributing) being a concession to get Bjugstad included in the deal. Toronto's assets are not attractive enough to warrant taking back dead wood like Connolly.

In the spirit of repetition:
Luo and a depth player/pick for Bjugstad, Petrovic and Upshall (who can play either wing / can be used at RW).

Theodore to Toronto for (who cares).


First off I just want to Address this part of your post.

I've said it before and I will say it again, if Florida was willing to Bjugstad in the deal, it would have been done a long time ago. Tallon isn't willing to throw Bjugstad in and that's why the deal didn't get done before the CBA expired.

Now. Edmonton's offer would be (if they even want him which they probably don't) Gagner + or maybe at the most Paajarvi + and those +'s wouldn't be a 1st, it would be either a 2nd, 3rd or lesser prospect.

Now Washington has two good goalies, they dont need one, Goaltending isn't there issue so why would they trade for a goalie.

And I Toronto's are but it depends what that is, if it's Gardiner and Connolly (which will never happen but I',m just saying if) then we would have to do it. I think there is a better chance we get a better offer from Toronto rather than Florida and if we have to take a cap dumb back, aslong as the return is worth it them I'm fine with that depending on the return and the CBA.

Last thing, I explain why Florida would be more interested than Edmonton.

Because Florida doesn't have Stars like Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov who are ready to step in, Huberbeau is now ready, but other than that all there top prospects are still as ways away and they won't be stars when they step in right away, they won't be ready to carry the team right away, like Eberle, RNH and Hall do.

So they want as good of goaltending as possible so they can remain as competitive as possible when these young guys step in so that they don't lose alot, and in turn start accepting losing like they did before in Florida, when they had Horton, Booth, Weiss, Ballard and so-on, they had a pretty decent team when you look on there roster but they begain to accept losing and once that happen's your hope less with that group. So they dont want that to happen again with this young core that they have worked so hard and went through so much to get in place.

Doug McLeans explains it well when he speaks in this video (he mention's my point at about 3:20):
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#368 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

I agree; the market is a bit bigger than is necessarily "actively looking." Any of these teams could surface.

And somehow I believe Lou's pledge to "do whatever is best for the team" is also well rooted in a desire not to be a Pavel Bure and holdout. He has a $6.7 mill paycheque to collect after all!

:frantic:

Too many people here forget this fact. He will go virtually anywhere, mark my words!!!

Chicago, Tampa Bay, New Jersey, Edmonton, Columbus, San Jose, Washington, Ottawa to name a few.

I think people are underestimating how quickly a teams situation can change.

Don't reiterate that crap about "well Luongo won't waive his no trade clause to go there....." If we're testing Luongo's pride vs Mike Gillis' patience I put my money on Mike Gillis' patience everytime. I can see Luongo waving his no trade clause even for a place like Long Island or Columbus if it meant he was the number 1 guaranteed starter ( and assuming they had a decent chance at the playoffs at the time Luongo was to be traded)


I know I am speaking to sarcasm, but behind Toews I would bet Seabrook is the most untouchable guy on their team. Look at the size of their D once he's missing...

Leddy and Bolland is perfectly adequate, or we can walk.... Likely, no > but poker is fun! And this also assumes we can unload lefty Ballard to make room.

Seabrook. Yes.

If people can talk crap like Lecavalier or Kadri, why not talk big like Seabrook?

Every bit as reasonable.

Luongo for Eberle. Straight up. Get er done!!! :bigblush:


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 22 October 2012 - 11:13 PM.

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#369 smurf47

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

That is a truly pathetic attempt king

Luongo also went from .931 to .914 in 2003/4/5. Oh, decline!!!

The same logic applies to your silly claims about year to year production of the Sedins.

Your ridiculous arguments rest on the basis of one year - which you claim indicates "decline".

Again, Luongo - BETTER THAN CAREER AVERAGE NUMBERS LAST YEAR.

Chart the same kind of rankings for Lecavalier and get back to us.

DERP!

That is a truly pathetic attempt king

Luongo also went from .931 to .914 in 2003/4/5. Oh, decline!!!

The same logic applies to your silly claims about year to year production of the Sedins.

Your ridiculous arguments rest on the basis of one year - which you claim indicates "decline".

Again, Luongo - BETTER THAN CAREER AVERAGE NUMBERS LAST YEAR.

Chart the same kind of rankings for Lecavalier and get back to us.

DERP!

Better than his NHL average but middle of the pack in Sp and GAA and NOT 9th and 11th.....goalies are now posting better numbers
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#370 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:17 AM

This thread is hilarious I'm going to laugh so hard at everyone debating about the Laffs fragile core if MG doesn't even deal him to the Laffs.

I'm going to say that if we do deal Luongo with the Laffs you're seeing this coming back AT LEAST...

Colborne + Kulemin +
Colborne + Grabo +
Colborne + Carter + 1st

Kadri + Kulemin +
Kadri + Grabo +
Kadri + Carter + 1st

Gardiner + 1st + Cap dump.

That's all.

Deal.

I'd take Gardiner, 1st and a cap dump (Lombardi, Connolly, Komisarek etc) and not look back. Like really, we don't know much about Colbourne other than he's big, same thing with Ashton. With Gardiner we have a young, puck-moving D man who others have said is the Leafs' best D man. And if the 'cap dump' is either Lombardi or Connolly instead of Komisarek I'd be extremely happy with that deal.


Not happening. I would gladly take a bet that the Leafs wouldn't do that trade. Might as well through Rielly in their too for good measure.
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#371 Pears

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:36 AM

Not happening. I would gladly take a bet that the Leafs wouldn't do that trade. Might as well through Rielly in their too for good measure.

You're joking if you think we won't get either of those packages for Luongo.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#372 Boudrias

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

Chicago: Trading him there without getting a big piece back (Hossa, Sharp, exc.) would be a career killer for MG. And I dont see any chance of them giving up a big piece. So what are we gunna get? Stalberg? They probably won't move Leddy, maybe Hjalmalsson but that's not a need we have a solid top 4, so what are we gunna get? Nothing, it won't work. if we give that core a star goaltender, then Idk how we will be able to beat them in the playoffs. This doesn't seem likely at all.

Tampa Bay: Stevie Y was interested in Schneider, the only way he wants Lu is if Lecavalier goes the other way, that's the only way. and No thanks to that, even if we only do have to eat up 3.5-4 million of it, (which might not even be the case, who knows what will be in CBA) but either way he isn't worth it, he isn't the 100 point player he was, he isn't even the 70 point player, who knoe's if he is even a 60 point player, I would say his best now is 40-50, he's aging, hes not worth the contract, I would rather just get Bozak rather than him. And they won't give us anything else that is really appealing.

New Jersey: If there playoff run proved anything it is that Marty Brodeur can still play at a high level, and with the contract they just signed him too there is no chance they will want Lu, and what are they gunna give us? They lost a few big pieces from there run, Parise, Ponikarovsky. So now that there line-up is greatly weaker what can they afford to give us? Nothing, it's not a likely scenerio at all.

Edmonton: Idk why Botch had to bring this up, there not going to give us anything big, and they dont really have alot that they could give us, plus it's probably not a huge priority for them, Dubnyk has been getting better and better, he has shown he can give them a chance to win and improving there defense is probably a much bigger priority for them as apposed to improving there goaltending. Very unlikely aswell.

Columbus: Lu won't waive his NTC to go there, and even if he would somehow, when you really think about it. why would they want him? sure a goalie like Luongo would be nice for them for sure but why would they want to do it at the price MG will want? They are a young team, they just lost there star, they aren't really in playoff contention, they are just building to a better future, why would they want to trade assets for a 33 year old goalie like Luongo. when those asset's could pay off in a much bigger way in the future when they are a good team? Unlikely aswell.

San Jose: They have Niemi, who is a starter and what are they gunna give us? Clowe. That's maybe it, but I dont know if they would do it and idk if I even want him, we wouldn't be able to get the same value and I highly doubt they even want him, Niemi has been fine, it's not Luongo is gunna be a huge difference maker, he's not gunna do a ton more than Niemi already has, that team has a decent goalie, they need to start getting younger and fix up some area's of there team, and right now I don't think goaltending is huge priority for them, not to mention there isn't alot they would be willing to part ways with. Again probably not likely.

Washington: They have 2 young goalies there, both played well (Neuvirth in the season, Holtby in the playoffs) those two can carry that team just fine as a tandem, then they can focus there assets on improving there forward group, and the rest of there skaters. There goaltending has been fine, it's not an issue at all as we saw in the playoffs, if anything it iss a strong point right now, they have other things to focus on.

Ottawa: Why? Anderson is fine for the time being and they have two good young goalies up and coming in Bishop and Lehner, then behind them Driedger isn't bad either. There team isn't ready to contend, last year was just a pleasant surprise, not saying they won't make the playoffs but right now they just have to go through this transition period where all there good young talent develops and replaces the old talent. This isn't them building into a cup contender. so since there not a contender, there is no reason to waste assets that could be better served later on.

NY Islanders: Similar thing to Columbus, they are young, they are waiting for there young talent to develop and the goaltending they have right now is good enough to hold the fort until Poulin can take the torch, and why would they want 2 goalies on lifetime contracts cause there is no way Dipietro is coming back our way.

Again, I dont see the same fit in any of these other teams like I do in Florida or Toronto, and right now Toronto seems the best.

I understand your rationale but a number of those teams are under serious pressure to win now. Lui gives them that opportunity.
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#373 oldnews

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

Better than his NHL average but middle of the pack in Sp and GAA and NOT 9th and 11th.....goalies are now posting better numbers


What other goalies do really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Luongo himself is "declining".
And even if last year were to be considered a "decline" (despite the fact his numbers are average or better) - it represents one season - to repeat - I think it's ridiculous to consider one year of slight variance to be evidence of decline.
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#374 oldnews

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:47 AM

First off I just want to Address this part of your post.

I've said it before and I will say it again, if Florida was willing to Bjugstad in the deal, it would have been done a long time ago. Tallon isn't willing to throw Bjugstad in and that's why the deal didn't get done before the CBA expired.

Now. Edmonton's offer would be (if they even want him which they probably don't) Gagner + or maybe at the most Paajarvi + and those +'s wouldn't be a 1st, it would be either a 2nd, 3rd or lesser prospect.

Now Washington has two good goalies, they dont need one, Goaltending isn't there issue so why would they trade for a goalie.

And I Toronto's are but it depends what that is, if it's Gardiner and Connolly (which will never happen but I',m just saying if) then we would have to do it. I think there is a better chance we get a better offer from Toronto rather than Florida and if we have to take a cap dumb back, aslong as the return is worth it them I'm fine with that depending on the return and the CBA.

Last thing, I explain why Florida would be more interested than Edmonton.

Because Florida doesn't have Stars like Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov who are ready to step in, Huberbeau is now ready, but other than that all there top prospects are still as ways away and they won't be stars when they step in right away, they won't be ready to carry the team right away, like Eberle, RNH and Hall do.

So they want as good of goaltending as possible so they can remain as competitive as possible when these young guys step in so that they don't lose alot, and in turn start accepting losing like they did before in Florida, when they had Horton, Booth, Weiss, Ballard and so-on, they had a pretty decent team when you look on there roster but they begain to accept losing and once that happen's your hope less with that group. So they dont want that to happen again with this young core that they have worked so hard and went through so much to get in place.

Doug McLeans explains it well when he speaks in this video (he mention's my point at about 3:20): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsZdb_ovvo


I doesn't really matter to me whether you've said something before - clearly it wasn't considered authoritative the first time. You may think it is logical to assume that because a deal including Bjugstad has not been done, that it will not happen.
I'm not stuck on Bjugstad, particularly after drafting a couple promising centers, but I don't find your logic convincing - nor do I generally consider it credible when posters tell me what GMs will or will not do. GMs negotiate - they add and subtract pieces. You simply don't know what Tallon is thinking.

The same applies to Kevin Lowe. You simply don't know whether he'd be interested, what he would offer, nor can you credibly speak for him. You can assert that the only options he would consider are Gagner or Paajarvi and a throw-in draft pick - I think you are giving yourself too much credit.

Spare me the Connolly talk. Your credibility wanes in suggesting that. And Gardiner is grossly, prematurely over-valued. A deal with Gardiner and Connolly had better include another prospect like Colborne or Biggs to compensate for taking the dead wood off their hands - and no, Gardiner is not enough to value alone to make that happen. That 4.75 for Connolly hurts the Canucks far too much. If Toronto wants to move Connolly, let them try Dreger's 'wisdom' - waivers.

There's really no need for you to try to explain to me why Florida would want Luongo more than Edmonton - and regardless, your argument imo is a fail. Apparently you consider young stars to be scoring forwards. You may want to take another look at Florida's actual roster and prospect pool. If you think Huberdeau is their only young star, you don't know what you are talking about. Kulikov, Gudbranson (3rd overall), Huberdeau (3rd overall), and Bjugstad aren't exactly second rate and are as ready to step in as they players you mentioned - in fact Kulikov has already played 200+ NHL games at age 21 (impressive for a blueliner), Gudbranson has played a full season (only 20 yrs old), Huberdeau will very likely make the Panthers this year. The Panthers also happen to have another handful of solid prospects right on the heels of these guys.

The Panthers finished 3rd in the East. Their goaltending was fairly solid in the form of Theodore and Clemenson - and they also have Markstrom developing. Of course Luongo is an upgrade and makes sense (with him they have the opportunity to contend) - but when you look at these teams - the Panthers are far less likely to experience losing next season than Edmonton is. If I had the choice of taking the Panthers roster or Edmonton's, it's a no brainer. As much as I love Eberle, the Panthers are light years better and ahead of the Oilers.

Your point about not wanting "to accept losing and once that happen's your hope less with that group" would apply far more to the Oilers than Florida. I think you are really underestimating the basis the Florida has built - and Edmonton could certainly use a goalie like Luongo who performs best when facing heavy volumes of shots - he could really help their young, not terribly adept blueline. Edmonton has far less balance in their pool of young stars than Florida does. Edmonton is extremely top heavy - outside their top 6 forwards, they are a bad hockey club. If you look at Florida - their blueline is in much, much better shape than Edmonton's - they actually need a goaltending upgrade less than Edmonton does - you may also want to keep in mind that Khabibulin is 39 years old. Edmonton needs and should want Luongo - Florida should want him, but the case for need is weaker.

The point that McLean makes actually applies every bit as much to Edmonton as Florida - imo even moreso - considering Edmonton doesn't have a stable of young blueliners like Kulikov, Gudbranson, Ellerby, Robak, Petrovic - and you can add yet another first rounder in Matheson to that pool - their veterans - Campbell, Kuba, Jovo, Weaver - not a bad complement there.

Luongo makes solid sense to Florida, Toronto, and Edmonton - (and a few other teams).

Edited by oldnews, 23 October 2012 - 11:56 AM.

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#375 WHL rocks

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:25 PM

No way Luongo waives his NTC for a trade to Edmonton.

I have no evidence or inside source regarding this, but i'm willing to bet a large sum of money on it.
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#376 Sup CROW

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

Lp
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#377 elvis15

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:54 PM

No way Luongo waives his NTC for a trade to Edmonton.

I have no evidence or inside source regarding this, but i'm willing to bet a large sum of money on it.

But, but...


Lu 100% wants to go to Florida but Florida is using this trying to not trade us back anything of significance. The Oilers are making a hard play for him. They know they can't keep all their young stars. They are dangling Gagner since he's dad works for the organization and they are trying to use that. Gillis is intrigued enough that he's made a counter proposal which includes one of the young stars but don't think the Oilers will bite. He'll end up in Toronto. Burke will make the best offer since he know's the Leafs haven't made the playoffs in 8 years and Lu will get them there.

Do you have a source detailing the Edmonton info you mentioned? I haven't heard anything other than rumblings from Botchford that Edmonton might be a destination, which I don't really see.

Yes.

However, I just don't see Edmonton giving up what Vancouver wants, especially to a Division rival and Lu may not be as likely to go to waive his NTC to go there. Toronto is at least only a 2 hour or so flight to FLA.

:picard:

Perhaps I should be more specific: what is the source you have for the Edmonton info you mentioned?

I am sorry, I am not going to tell you that in respect of where I get the info from.


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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#378 WHL rocks

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

Lol
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#379 elvis15

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:11 PM

Not that I think we'd be able to get someone like RNH from the Oil, but wouldn't that be an interesting line with Jensen-RNH-Kassian?
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#380 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

Not that I think we'd be able to get someone like RNH from the Oil, but wouldn't that be an interesting line with Jensen-RNH-Kassian?


RNH definitely needs a big winger like Kassian. At 175 RNH is going to have a pretty short career, either he has to add some bulk or get a winger that can protect him.

Interesting proposal definitely, I'd like to see it.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#381 Bure fan

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

Basically the big talk is that Luongo is heading to Toronto, so I would be happy with a deal along the lines of :
Luongo and Sauve for perhaps Bozak, Franson, and MacArthur.
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#10 Pavel Bure #96


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#382 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:35 PM

I understand your rationale but a number of those teams are under serious pressure to win now. Lui gives them that opportunity.


But teams that are under pressure out of those, there issue isn't goaltending, there goaltending is fine. (other than Chicago)
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#383 Aestheticon67

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

i agree
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Daniel Sedin when not playing for his national team, passes it up to Pavol Demitra gathering speed through the neutral zone to battle in deep, a quick centering feed to Henrik Sedin as he dazzles the D and slides it under Patrick Lalime. Dany Sabourin stones Sami Kapanen who tried the wraparound but was denied by the paddle down. Sidney Crosby was taught how to win at hockey by Ziggy Palffy.

#384 WiDeN

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:52 PM

Well played.

Oh, but Garrison has only had one (or two) good years hahaha!!

I loved that play too.

RNH definitely needs a big winger like Kassian. At 175 RNH is going to have a pretty short career, either he has to add some bulk or get a winger that can protect him.

Interesting proposal definitely, I'd like to see it.

There is no way that we could pry RNH away from the Oilers. I live in Edmonton and have watched a lot of Oilers games. RNH will be their best player in a very short period of time. He is special, and I would bet we could get Hall before we could get him.
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V a n c o u v e r C a n u c k s

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2 0 1 5 S t a n l e y C u p C h a m p i o n s


#385 smurf47

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:14 PM

What other goalies do really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Luongo himself is "declining".
And even if last year were to be considered a "decline" (despite the fact his numbers are average or better) - it represents one season - to repeat - I think it's ridiculous to consider one year of slight variance to be evidence of decline.

and the part that you regularly ignore...is his lack of consistancy on a game to game basis. He does have great games and just as many stinkers. His style of play and weaknesses are contributing to his lack of consistancy. He has proven to be totally unreliable in the playoffs. Roll the dice and see which Luongo shows up! His numbers don;t show his inconsistancies . Lets use the word"decline" in a different context. Although his career numbers stay the same, he is dropping in ranking, because, other goalies are passing him. So, a decline , in comparison to the league standard.
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#386 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

I doesn't really matter to me whether you've said something before - clearly it wasn't considered authoritative the first time. You may think it is logical to assume that because a deal including Bjugstad has not been done, that it will not happen.
I'm not stuck on Bjugstad, particularly after drafting a couple promising centers, but I don't find your logic convincing - nor do I generally consider it credible when posters tell me what GMs will or will not do. GMs negotiate - they add and subtract pieces. You simply don't know what Tallon is thinking.


Here, it has already come out that Gillis want's Bjugstad and Tallon won't do it, again that's why the deal hasn't gone through it is because Tallon won't give us Bjugstad, if they were willing too it would have been done along time ago and I will prove it too you.

http://thehockeywrit...orida-panthers/

Heck there's a thread on it right here on CDC.

http://forum.canucks...orida-panthers/

Then there is this other one.

http://ca.sports.yah...59038--nhl.html

That clearly states in it

Earlier in the week, we were told that Gillis has a very specific directive for Florida: Give us Nick Bjugstad. Florida has repeatedly denied that request, and so we wait.


So as you can see, what I have been saying is true. We want Bjugstad, they won't give him to us. The only pieces really aren't an issue at all, it's just that simple.

The same applies to Kevin Lowe. You simply don't know whether he'd be interested, what he would offer, nor can you credibly speak for him. You can assert that the only options he would consider are Gagner or Paajarvi and a throw-in draft pick - I think you are giving yourself too much credit.


Okay, everyone knows (unless your a moron) there is absolutely 0% chance that Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz and probably Klefbom won't be in the deal (if they are as interested as you think)

So what do they have? What else can they give us that would appease us and make enough sense to trade him to a team inside our division that we have traditionally been rivals with to a certain extent.

It would be: Hemsky, Paajarvi (maybe), Gagner, maybe Smid or some other scraps. There isn't really anything there that interests me that much, we can get something better from Toronto.

Spare me the Connolly talk. Your credibility wanes in suggesting that. And Gardiner is grossly, prematurely over-valued. A deal with Gardiner and Connolly had better include another prospect like Colborne or Biggs to compensate for taking the dead wood off their hands - and no, Gardiner is not enough to value alone to make that happen. That 4.75 for Connolly hurts the Canucks far too much. If Toronto wants to move Connolly, let them try Dreger's 'wisdom' - waivers.


By how do you know that they can do that in the next CBA? They are just assuming they can bury him which they may not be able too.

And No Gardiner isn't he's 22, he was arguablly there best defensemen last year, he is already a top 4 guy on most teams and his potential seems endless, not to mention his great skillset, those types of defensemen don't come around alot and he isn't going anywhere, Burke has already stated that so yes I do have credibility in that since it has already come from the Horse's mouth.

Gardiner isn't going anywhere, cap dump or not That's the bottom line.

And Connolly is actually still a good player, it's not his fault they were dumb enough to give him that much $$ but he can still be a good 2nd line center like he was before. (not that I want him but I'm just saying)


There's really no need for you to try to explain to me why Florida would want Luongo more than Edmonton - and regardless, your argument imo is a fail. Apparently you consider young stars to be scoring forwards. You may want to take another look at Florida's actual roster and prospect pool. If you think Huberdeau is their only young star, you don't know what you are talking about. Kulikov, Gudbranson (3rd overall), Huberdeau (3rd overall), and Bjugstad aren't exactly second rate and are as ready to step in as they players you mentioned - in fact Kulikov has already played 200+ NHL games at age 21 (impressive for a blueliner), Gudbranson has played a full season (only 20 yrs old), Huberdeau will very likely make the Panthers this year. The Panthers also happen to have another handful of solid prospects right on the heels of these guys.

The Panthers finished 3rd in the East. Their goaltending was fairly solid in the form of Theodore and Clemenson - and they also have Markstrom developing. Of course Luongo is an upgrade and makes sense (with him they have the opportunity to contend) - but when you look at these teams - the Panthers are far less likely to experience losing next season than Edmonton is. If I had the choice of taking the Panthers roster or Edmonton's, it's a no brainer. As much as I love Eberle, the Panthers are light years better and ahead of the Oilers.


This part of your post made you seem like you really have no clue what you are talking about.

And yes I do, Edmonton has young star's like Hall, Eberle and RNH who score and are already capable of carrying there team offensively.

Florida has None. They have good prospects but no good young stars, Huberdeau, Howden, Bjugstad and the rest of them aren't at the point where they can carry a team like Hall, Eberle, and RNH can.

And none of those players you mentioned from Florida are star players.


As for the rest of it, you seem to missing the point of my post. Veteran players (Kuba, Flieschmann, Bergenhiem, Upshall, Jovo So-on) will be moving out and there young player's will be moving in, do you think those young player's will be able of carrying that team to the playoffs, highly unlikely, they will be like Edmonton is now.

Maybe right now Florida is better cause of all the players they signed for there quick fix, but once those guys move out and there young players move in, it won't even be close. Edmonton might even be better than them next year, who knows there young guys got better and they added players, whereas Florida lost a big piece in Garrison.

Your point about not wanting "to accept losing and once that happen's your hope less with that group" would apply far more to the Oilers than Florida. I think you are really underestimating the basis the Florida has built - and Edmonton could certainly use a goalie like Luongo who performs best when facing heavy volumes of shots - he could really help their young, not terribly adept blueline. Edmonton has far less balance in their pool of young stars than Florida does. Edmonton is extremely top heavy - outside their top 6 forwards, they are a bad hockey club. If you look at Florida - their blueline is in much, much better shape than Edmonton's - they actually need a goaltending upgrade less than Edmonton does - you may also want to keep in mind that Khabibulin is 39 years old. Edmonton needs and should want Luongo - Florida should want him, but the case for need is weaker.

The point that McLean makes actually applies every bit as much to Edmonton as Florida - imo even moreso - considering Edmonton doesn't have a stable of young blueliners like Kulikov, Gudbranson, Ellerby, Robak, Petrovic - and you can add yet another first rounder in Matheson to that pool - their veterans - Campbell, Kuba, Jovo, Weaver - not a bad complement there.

Luongo makes solid sense to Florida, Toronto, and Edmonton - (and a few other teams).


I said Dubnyk was Edmonton's starter going forward not Khabiblulin, and Dub is in his prime. So really Florida needs the goalie more, since niether Theodore and Clemmensen are starters, they managed to hold to the fort last year, but who knows if they will be able to again.

And again your missing the point, the point of Florida getting Luongo isn't to build the roster they currently have into a contender, it is so that when there young player's enter the line-up, and they begin to develop into key players that can carry the team (which they won't be right away) they will need someone to help carry the team until they are capable of doing so.

And you are underestimating Edmonton's prospects infact they have better one's than Florida, Klefbom is a better prospect than Petrovic, Musil is just as good as any other D prospect they have, they have Marincin, they now have Schultz (who would probably be the equivalent of Kulikov), they have Tuebert, they have Petry. Then for forwards they have Hamilton, Pitlick, Reider and more.

So yes Edmonton does have a stable of young blueliners. You just don't know about them.

I think overall you just missed the point of my post, and your not quite as informed as you think.
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#387 Provost

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:26 PM

Here, it has already come out that Gillis want's Bjugstad and Tallon won't do it, again that's why the deal hasn't gone through it is because Tallon won't give us Bjugstad, if they were willing too it would have been done along time ago and I will prove it too you.


No matter how many times you write this flawed logic... it doesn't make it any more true.

Even the links you included suggest that the deal can still very likely occur, they go completely against your argument!

The idea that that Bjugstad is untouchable is ridiculous... it is a matter of price and whether we are willing to pay that. It is also a matter of what the new CBA looks like and how that affects Luongo's contract and/or the ability to retain salary or cap space in a trade.

I think both sides have been more than happy to wait to see what the new rules will be.

The Booth trade apparently took over 6 months to complete, so the "it would have been done a long time ago" argument is literally just crap you are making up.

Edited by Provost, 23 October 2012 - 04:31 PM.

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Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#388 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:33 PM

No matter how many times you write this flawed logic... it doesn't make it any more true.

The idea that that Bjugstad is untouchable is ridiculous... it is a matter of price and whether we are willing to pay that. It is also a matter of what the new CBA looks like and how that affects Luongo's contract and/or the ability to retain salary or cap space in a trade.

I think both sides have been more than happy to wait to see what the new rules will be.

The Booth trade apparently took over 6 months to complete, so the "it would have been done a long time ago" argument is literally just crap you are making up.


Did you check out the links?

The only way we will get Bjugstad is if we overpay, and that's not worth it. As my links proved, Bjugstad is what we are demanding and what they won't give us, the extra pieces and cap weren't the issuse, if we could have gotten Bjugstad (and something else) Gillis probably would have taken Upshall or whatever the dump is.

And can you prove that the Booth deal did take that long? and if it did it is very simple why they finally went along with it.

Because Booth wasn't playing well, they gave him time and realized they might aswell trade him now while they can get a decent return while he still had good value, and that's exactly what they did. Unfortunaley since Bjugstad won't we in the NHL we won't have that opportunity again.


Let me as you this since your so intent that it isn't that case even though I just proved great evidence that it is.

If that's not the issue, then what is? Why weren't we able to get the deal done in the 2 months we had?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 23 October 2012 - 04:34 PM.

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#389 Provost

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:06 PM

Did you check out the links?


I did... but the question is did you? The stories YOU linked explain why YOU are wrong!!

Shall I quote directly from them for you as you seem to not be able to follow a logical argument?


"Many people have speculated that the hold up in the deal is that Canucks General Manager Mike Gillis is demanding that the Panthers include their 2010 first round draft pick, Nick Bjugstad, as part of the deal. Florida, so far, is unwilling to part with the University of Minnesota forward and we find ourselves at the crossroads."

"Gillis can sit back and wait for the Panthers to come to him on this. With or without Luongo, his team can still end the regular season No. 1 in the Western Conference as they have the last two seasons. His team isn't the one with the need"

"Dale Tallon may love what Bjugstad brings to his organization, but does he love it more than a significantly improved chance to make the playoffs for the second consecutive season? That's what Gillis is counting on, and he's no dummy. This is the guy who artificially drove up Cody Hodgson's trade value with favorable zone starts for weeks in an effort to work a more advantageous deal for himself."

So... the links you provided not only suggest that a deal hasn't been made SO FAR, they indicate that Gillis puts himself in a better position to wait and let Florida blink first. They also give an example (beyond the Booth one I gave you already) which shows that trades take some time to develop, and the GM's job is to make it happen when you can get the best deal.... for the Canucks that was likely NOT July, and it may not be until mid season.

That entirely blows your argument of "it would have happened already" out of the water even without the added uncertainty over the results of the CBA negotiations which almost certainly hampered any Luongo trade.

Edited by Provost, 23 October 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#390 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

I did... but the question is did you? The stories YOU linked explain why YOU are wrong!!

Shall I quote directly from them for you as you seem to not be able to follow a logical argument?


"Many people have speculated that the hold up in the deal is that Canucks General Manager Mike Gillis is demanding that the Panthers include their 2010 first round draft pick, Nick Bjugstad, as part of the deal. Florida, so far, is unwilling to part with the University of Minnesota forward and we find ourselves at the crossroads."

"Gillis can sit back and wait for the Panthers to come to him on this. With or without Luongo, his team can still end the regular season No. 1 in the Western Conference as they have the last two seasons. His team isn't the one with the need"

"Dale Tallon may love what Bjugstad brings to his organization, but does he love it more than a significantly improved chance to make the playoffs for the second consecutive season? That's what Gillis is counting on, and he's no dummy. This is the guy who artificially drove up Cody Hodgson's trade value with favorable zone starts for weeks in an effort to work a more advantageous deal for himself."

So... the links you provided not only suggest that a deal hasn't been made SO FAR, they indicate that Gillis puts himself in a better position to wait and let Florida blink first. They also give an example (beyond the Booth one I gave you already) which shows that trades take some time to develop, and the GM's job is to make it happen when you can get the best deal.... for the Canucks that was likely NOT July, and it may not be until mid season.

That entirely blows your argument of "it would have happened already" out of the water even without the added uncertainty over the results of the CBA negotiations which almost certainly hampered any Luongo trade.


really this didn't prove I was wrong, it backed-up that what I said was true and forced you to change your arguement.

You went from saying that the opportunities that may come in the new CBA might make Roberto more interesting to Florida, enough so to give up Bjugstad, when that really doesn't add all that much interest since they don't want to give him up.

Now your saying that the problem is that they don't want to give up Bjugstad (which is what I was saying) but you think that if we wait they will want to in another two months. and Your trying to compare this situation to one that is completely different as your back up for it.


He's a young player developing, he's not Booth, that's not an accurate comparison, (not to mention one you can't back up with a source).

Booth had been struggling so Tallon traded him when his value was there, Bjugstad's value is only going up, why we he trade him in another month? If Bjugstad continues to play well (which he will) that will only reassure Tallon that he should hold onto him.


So tell me, why would Florida blink, they have all the leverage because we can't keep him here forever, they have the asset's we want, they are in the driver's seat here, so we gotta be careful.

Florida is still going through there rebuilding proccess, so Tallon will just go with what he has if the price is too high, and just wait for Markstrom to be ready in a year or two.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 23 October 2012 - 05:36 PM.

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