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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#481 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:16 PM

I meant in the playoffs. The discussion was related to Luongo not being able to be counted on when the pressure was on.


He was one one of the few players who actually scored in the series, he was only -1 despite how bad we got outplayed in the 1st 2 games.

We were missing our best player, and a huge key to his line and his success.

Not to mention LA had been underachieving the entire year and Sutter finally got them out of that right as they played us. Not to mention Quick was pretty good (although I still think he was beatable).

Those are just facts, I thought he was fine in the playoffs, while most of the team struggled and did nothing I thought he was fine.

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#482 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

How he plays is not irrelevant at all. If he is playing well, then during the season there will be suitors. There is a lot more opportunity once teams have assessed their goaltending situation halfway in to the season. If Lu is hot near the trade deadline, then I guarantee there will be teams ready to take him on a run.
I might point out that Lu has not given a list of acceptable teams, or said he won't go to any specific ones. YOU may think he has a two team list, but if a contending team wants him for a playoff run, then I doubt he says no. That is my guess, but at least I recognize that it's just a guess.

Distraction to who? What does Lu's cap hit have to do with distracting the room? If he gets all prima donna, then there might be a distraction, but I think you are over estimating the situation. Again, that's my guess, and I recognize that I am just guessing.
Chances are that the goaltenders will play 50/50 especially with such a compressed schedule.
Also, you do remember what our team looks like even without the return from Lu, right? It's not like we have a terrible team while paying him 5.3M to play every other night.


If Luongo is playing so well at the deadline, Gillis will want to keep him but it's not going to come to that. Luongo has been very dignified since requesting a trade. Luongo has not put Gillis in anymore of a harder situation than Gillis put himself into in the first place. All we know is Luogno's first choice and only choice thus far has been to play in Florida.

This connects to your part about Luongo being a distraction. Luongo has not been putting any kind of public pressure on Gillis because Luongo feels Gillis will trade him as soon as he can. If Luongo were to be playing the backup role in Vancouver during the regular season, he would get restless and would likely start putting pressure on Gillis to make a move. This is where he would become a hge distraction. Even if It takes a couple weeks to trade Luongo when the season starts, having a guy going from being a leader and captain not that long ago to waiting for the other shoe to drop would be a distraction. Luongo is not going to be emotionally invested at all to how well the Canucks are doing.

Simply... dense.

You are more of a negative distraction than the pending Luongo deal - and btw, no one is sucked in by your 'reasoning'.
Your attempts to reduce Gillis to incompetence are what appear desperate.
And predictable, obvious, repetitive, short-sighted...


You're the fanboy who can't see any flaw in how the Canucks have dealt with the situation.

#483 Pears

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

You're the fanboy who can't see any flaw in how the Canucks have dealt with the situation.

What's wrong with waiting for the right deal to come? Because that's what MG has been doing all along. If MG doesn't find the right deal for Luongo, which had been the case all summer, there is absolutley nothing wrong in keeping him and Schneider.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#484 ajhockey

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:27 PM

What's wrong with waiting for the right deal to come? Because that's what MG has been doing all along. If MG doesn't find the right deal for Luongo, which had been the case all summer, there is absolutley nothing wrong in keeping him and Schneider.


I agree. The worst thing that could happen is that MG just trade Lu to get rid of him and we get a terrible return. It's best to wait til something good comes up. Lu said he's willing to play here for a while if it comes to that.

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#485 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:10 PM

What's wrong with waiting for the right deal to come? Because that's what MG has been doing all along. If MG doesn't find the right deal for Luongo, which had been the case all summer, there is absolutley nothing wrong in keeping him and Schneider.

I agree. The worst thing that could happen is that MG just trade Lu to get rid of him and we get a terrible return. It's best to wait til something good comes up. Lu said he's willing to play here for a while if it comes to that.


There's the distraction part and the risk part that makes trading Luongo ASAP appealing.

Distraction - A lot of people are underestimating this. He doesn't want to part of the Canucks anymore. Everyone else in the locker room will know this. They will also know as well as Luongo that sooner or later that he is going to get traded. He isn't a "Canuck" he is waiting to be transfered. He won't have the same resolve for the Canucks to be winners. He just wants to cut bait and get on another team. His teammates will know this. The longer it goes on, the bigger the elephant will grow.

Risk - What if he gets injured? No team is going to trade for him while he's injured and he will then have to prove that he can play before a team will trade for him. Goaltending is a weird position in the NHL. Sometimes you can get a Veznia like season from a relative unknown.

IMO it's in the Canucks best interest to turn this page as qucikly as they can.

#486 oldnews

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

You're the fanboy who can't see any flaw in how the Canucks have dealt with the situation.



and you're the future boy GM muahaha - good luck with that.

who would cut hasty deals out of fear of over-estimated future 'distractions' and what if situations...

"If Luongo were to be playing backup"...."What if he gets injured" blah, blah...

Sounds like Gillis hasn't actually mishandled the situation - all you've got is what if he doesn't move Luongo after the CBA, or what if he waits to the trade deadline, or who knows what 'what if' you are actually whining about?

"he would get restless and would likely start putting pressure on Gillis to make a move. This is where he would become a hge distraction."

What if you whiners wait and see what Gillis gets/does? As it stands, you are setting interwebz records in this thread for the most premature, peevish, what-if whining.

You and King are like the Energizer versions of a broken clock.

Edited by oldnews, 27 October 2012 - 04:20 PM.


#487 King of the ES

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:23 PM

How he plays is not irrelevant at all.


How is it relevant? Roberto Luongo is not an unknown commodity. He's a great goaltender.

If there was 1 year left on his deal, there'd probably be 20 - 25 teams with interest. This is what I mean by CONTEXT.

#488 King of the ES

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

What's wrong with waiting for the right deal to come? Because that's what MG has been doing all along. If MG doesn't find the right deal for Luongo, which had been the case all summer, there is absolutley nothing wrong in keeping him and Schneider.


Absolutely nothing wrong with allocating $5.3M to your backup goalie, eh? Wow.

#489 Pears

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:30 PM

Absolutely nothing wrong with allocating $5.3M to your backup goalie, eh? Wow.

Yea. Absolutely nothing wrong in keeping one of the best tandem's in the league.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#490 King of the ES

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:31 PM

Sounds like Gillis hasn't actually mishandled the situation - all you've got is what if he doesn't move Luongo after the CBA, or what if he waits to the trade deadline, or who knows what 'what if' you are actually whining about?


You must still be in your teens. "What-if" questions are amongst the most important to consider when making significant life decisions.

Non-fanboys have the ability to think of the potential negatives of "holding onto him until the right deal comes", which are many and have been repeated many times. Of course, you can't respond to any of them, like your "dense" retort last page, incredibly weak.

#491 oldnews

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

What if

Roberto Luongo is not an unknown commodity. He's a great goaltender.


You must still be in your teens. "What-if" questions are amongst the most important to consider when making significant life decisions.

Non-fanboys have the ability to think of the potential negatives of "holding onto him until the right deal comes", which are many and have been repeated many times. Of course, you can't respond to any of them, like your "dense" retort last page, incredibly weak.


The bolded part is one of the two times each day that the broken clock is correct.

#492 Gollumpus

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

Gollumpus, always good to see you.

You were the original dude with a sign off, and it always gives your posts an exclamation mark.

Don't let TOML steal your schtick.

regards,
W.


Nice to be seen.

The sign off is merely a way of being polite rather than being formal. I'm good if others take up the habit. :)

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G.
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#493 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

and you're the future boy GM muahaha - good luck with that.

who would cut hasty deals out of fear of over-estimated future 'distractions' and what if situations...

"If Luongo were to be playing backup"...."What if he gets injured" blah, blah...

Sounds like Gillis hasn't actually mishandled the situation - all you've got is what if he doesn't move Luongo after the CBA, or what if he waits to the trade deadline, or who knows what 'what if' you are actually whining about?

"he would get restless and would likely start putting pressure on Gillis to make a move. This is where he would become a hge distraction."

What if you whiners wait and see what Gillis gets/does? As it stands, you are setting interwebz records in this thread for the most premature, peevish, what-if whining.

You and King are like the Energizer versions of a broken clock.

Wow, with all that blind faith you have in Gillis you either are Gillis or his mistress boyfriend.

We'll see what he does. Either way he's not selling from a position of strength. Gillis and Vigneault put the Canucks in this position.

#494 oldnews

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

Wow, with all that blind faith you have in Gillis you either are Gillis or his mistress boyfriend.


You obviously don't bother to think before you speak.

#495 Gollumpus

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

Because they would be foolish and short-sighted to assume retirement. They need to take Lou's deal at face value.


Well indeed, if the new CBA goes ahead, then it would benefit the Canucks if Luongo did not retire for the next 10 years. You do see positives! :)

Fine, if the other teams do take Luongo's contract at face value then the team which acquires him can, in a six years time, ask him to provide a list of teams to which he would accept a trade. He could be moved freely at that time.

Who would want him, you ask? There are "always" teams out there which need help reaching the cap floor. They would gladly accept a player who is getting paid less than his cap, and Luongo could still be a very adequate back-up in six years time.

And even if a trade could not be worked out by these two other teams, could Luongo not just be waived? If he was picked up by another team, the team to which the Canucks traded him originally would then be rid of him, or, it might just inspire him to retire... something which does not affect the team to which the Canucks will trade him. Right?


Yes they are. Don't let Gillis' words suck you in and make you lose your reasoning.


No, they are not. Don't let your anxiety over this situation make you lose your reasoning.

Would the Canucks like to have moved Luongo sooner rather than later? Sure. However, trading Luongo for an inadequate return is something which is not reasonable.


The alternative to not moving him is having $5.3M of scarce cap space allocated to their backup goaltender, which, as well, would be a major, major negative distraction. They're desperate, and it's obvious.


You are once again starting at the worst case situation and proceeding from there. It seems you go to "Def Con One" in every situation where the rest of us are still at five. This does not make you insightful. It does make you limited in how you can discuss any situation.

Luongo will be traded. He will be traded when another team makes a decent offer. Is the fact that Luongo has yet to be traded something of a negative and a "distraction"? Sure. And if we were already in a regular season then I'd be somewhat concerned, but mostly I'd be interested in what Gillis was going to get in return.

The fact is, the season has yet to start (assuming there is a season). There is no reason to have moved Luongo for something less than his value... unless it's that you are impatient and want to start on the next thread, about how (in your opinion) Gillis did not get enough value for Luongo. :P


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#496 Gollumpus

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

There's the distraction part and the risk part that makes trading Luongo ASAP appealing.


And everybody is aware of these potential problems. Do you believe that Gillis is not aware of how the Luongo situation might negatively impact his team? Moving Luongo sooner, rather than later was high on Gillis' list of things to do over the summer... moving Luongo for a reasonable return that is.

If Luongo was moved for something less than his value, would you be defending that trade on the grounds that Gillis had to do it for the good of the team, or would you be complaining about what a bad trade it was?


Distraction - A lot of people are underestimating this. He doesn't want to part of the Canucks anymore. Everyone else in the locker room will know this. They will also know as well as Luongo that sooner or later that he is going to get traded. He isn't a "Canuck" he is waiting to be transfered. He won't have the same resolve for the Canucks to be winners. He just wants to cut bait and get on another team. His teammates will know this. The longer it goes on, the bigger the elephant will grow.


Once again, I'm pretty certain that Gillis is aware of this problem. I'm sure that the rest of the Canucks would feel bad for Luongo (and Schneider) should this situation drag out overly long. I feel fairly confident that Luongo would have already been moved had there not been a lock-out, and I also feel fairly confident that Luongo will be moved soon after the season begins.

I also feel fairly certain that the rest of the team will feel very unhappy should Gillis get nothing of any value for Luongo in this upcoming trade.

Risk - What if he gets injured? No team is going to trade for him while he's injured and he will then have to prove that he can play before a team will trade for him. Goaltending is a weird position in the NHL. Sometimes you can get a Veznia like season from a relative unknown.


Should the Canucks have need to play Luongo, and he gets injured, then depending on how serious that injury is it may well delay or even cancel trade talks. I would assume that the chances of him actually getting any game time would be pretty slim.

IMO it's in the Canucks best interest to turn this page as qucikly as they can.


So the question is, at how much of a loss would you suggest that Gillis should have traded Luongo? Gillis has said he wants an impact roster player, a top prospect and a 1st round pick. How much less than that would you have settled upon in order to move Luongo out of town?

Using Florida as an example, if you asked for Versteeg, Bjugstad and a 1st and Tallon countered with (for example) Goc, Grimaldi and a 3rd, would you do the trade, or would you wait?

regards,
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#497 King of the ES

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

If Luongo was moved for something less than his value, would you be defending that trade on the grounds that Gillis had to do it for the good of the team, or would you be complaining about what a bad trade it was?


He's going to be moved for something that will have less of an impact on this team - that is for certain.

The only way that this team wouldn't take a step back in the immediate term from trading Luongo is if he were to be moved for a guy who will score 25 - 30 goals immediately and consistently. From what we've heard - IE, Florida not being interested in even giving up ho-hum Nick Bjugstad - we're a far, far ways away from that.

#498 Boudrias

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

The Wolves lit up Markstrom for 6 last night. He is having a slow start. Might bring Florida back into a deal.

#499 Gollumpus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:12 AM

He's going to be moved for something that will have less of an impact on this team - that is for certain.


Well, when you're the team trading away the best player in the deal (I think you and I would agree on this point) it is pretty certain that, at least on an individual basis, the guys you are getting back will have less of an impact. Luongo is an elite goalie, and unless he was being traded, one-for-one for a different position player of equal worth, that the individual players will have less of an impact. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Look at the Nash deal. As individual players, will Artem Anisimov, Brandon Dubinsky or Tim Erixon be equal to Rick Nash?

This being said, while the individual parts the Canucks get back will be "less", this does not mean that as a group they could have a very significant, positive impact on this team.

The only way that this team wouldn't take a step back in the immediate term from trading Luongo is if he were to be moved for a guy who will score 25 - 30 goals immediately and consistently. From what we've heard - IE, Florida not being interested in even giving up ho-hum Nick Bjugstad - we're a far, far ways away from that.


So, Gillis getting a guy who could score only 20 - 25 goals would be a bust?

You have gone to the worst case scenario again. You start by saying that Luongo will "be moved for something that will have less of an impact on this team" and then put a rather high value on what would be needed in return for Luongo for this deal to be a success. This enters the realm of self-fulfilling prophecies.

Much like Nash being moved for several "lesser" assets, Luongo will be moved for lesser players. Deal with it.

In trades for high value assets, you rarely see two guys of equal value being traded for one another. One team moves a star player, while the other team sends prospects, and/or picks and/or roster players to give something back to try and equal the value.

To meet the 25 - 30 goal target you have set for a Luongo trade to be a success, the Canucks would, for example, have to get Fleischmann from Florida (27 g), or Kessel or Lupul from Toronto. Those teams, moving these players would pretty much defeat the purpose of them getting Luongo, so why would they do the deal? They would want to trade a less essential asset, which would allow their teams more success now.

Gillis is aware of this, and for the "impact roster player" component I think he is willing to take a guy who will make a bit less of an impact, but he will still make an impact. In exchange for this "favor" of letting the other team keep their valuable roster players, Gillis has made it clear he wants a top prospect and a 1st in addition to the roster player he gets.

So the deal is, the other team gets the best player in the deal who can help them win now (plus some filler - maybe a lesser prospect and/or pick to equal out the number of contracts), in exchange for a good prospect, a 1st, and a good (not great) roster player who can help the Canucks win, now and later.

regards,
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#500 ajhockey

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

Absolutely nothing wrong with allocating $5.3M to your backup goalie, eh? Wow.


I'm pretty sure they'd split the games pretty evenly if we had both, so it's hardly fair to call Lu a backup. At least not in the traditional sense.

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#501 higgyfan

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

As much as I agree with the people blaming Mike Gillis for the Luongo dilemna, I do believe that what is in the Canuck's best interest is also in Lu's best interest. If Lu has to put in time with the 'Nucks, it will be impartive to give him a chance to shine. He will not be the backup goalie, that's for sure. As soon as other team goalies start to falter, there will be a better choice for both Lu and the 'Nucks. If we have a season, it will be a short one and I expect that some of the lesser teams will take full avantage of it.
Let's hope for everyone's sake that Vancouver gets a good return and that Lu ends up with a team that he is comfortable with.

#502 King of the ES

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

I'm pretty sure they'd split the games pretty evenly if we had both, so it's hardly fair to call Lu a backup. At least not in the traditional sense.


And I'm pretty sure that Cory Schneider would just love that idea.

#503 Provost

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

And I'm pretty sure that Cory Schneider would just love that idea.


I think it will be less of an issue if it is a compressed schedule. Having to play 3 games in 4 nights regularly is really tough for a goalie. Having two actual NHL level goalies in that situation would be a huge competitive boost for us.

I don't think it is the end of the world if we have to keep Luongo for a couple of months into the season before a trade can happen. The market could really go up once places like Toronto and Tampa Bay realize their goaltending sucks.
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#504 King of the ES

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:05 PM

The market could really go up once places like Toronto and Tampa Bay realize their goaltending sucks.


What if Lindback and/or Reimer play better than expected?

#505 ajhockey

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

And I'm pretty sure that Cory Schneider would just love that idea.


Well too bad for him. We'll trade Lu eventually, but in the meantime, you're right, it's stupid to pay a guy who plays 25% of the games $5.3M, so he oughta play more to make it worth our while.

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#506 King of the ES

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

Well too bad for him. We'll trade Lu eventually, but in the meantime, you're right, it's stupid to pay a guy who plays 25% of the games $5.3M, so he oughta play more to make it worth our while.


That's quite the warm welcome for the guy expected to man this team's pipes for the next 3 years, at a minimum, and who's replacing the guy who owns the team's record books.

#507 higgyfan

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

What if Lindback and/or Reimer play better than expected?


As well as the various other goalies. But what if they don't. We won't know 'till it happens.

#508 higgyfan

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:58 PM

That's quite the warm welcome for the guy expected to man this team's pipes for the next 3 years, at a minimum, and who's replacing the guy who owns the team's record books.


What's best for the team and Lu is also best for Schneids. I think they split the games for a short period of time. With such a short season, there is bound to be a team that goes into panic mode when their #1 isn't playing well. Corey knows he has a bright future and has an awesome paycheck coming at him. Life is good. Don't worry...be happy.

#509 Provost

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

What if Lindback and/or Reimer play better than expected?


Then we have lost nothing... if the teams are not in the market for a goalie because they "hope" those guys pan out, we aren't getting a good deal from them anyways.

Rosters always look better to their GMs in the summer than they do in January... inevitably players don't live up to expectations.

There is also the added possibility of a serious season ending injury hitting a goalie, it would indirectly increase Luongo's value. for example, if Florida could get a 1st round pick for Theodore to a desperate team trying to salvage their season... then a Luongo deal looks more positive to them.
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#510 smurf47

smurf47

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:38 PM

What's best for the team and Lu is also best for Schneids. I think they split the games for a short period of time. With such a short season, there is bound to be a team that goes into panic mode when their #1 isn't playing well. Corey knows he has a bright future and has an awesome paycheck coming at him. Life is good. Don't worry...be happy.

Short season??? Don't hold your breath !!




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