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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#511 WiDeN

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

How is it relevant? Roberto Luongo is not an unknown commodity. He's a great goaltender.

If there was 1 year left on his deal, there'd probably be 20 - 25 teams with interest. This is what I mean by CONTEXT.

I think the word you were looking for is CONTRACT.

Nice to be seen.

The sign off is merely a way of being polite rather than being formal. I'm good if others take up the habit. :)

regards,
G.

I was more hoping he would see me taking a little stab at him, lol.
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#512 higgyfan

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

Short season??? Don't hold your breath !!


Well, then none of this matter anyways.
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#513 Pasific Coluseum

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:07 AM

The Wolves lit up Markstrom for 6 last night. He is having a slow start. Might bring Florida back into a deal.


Bring Florida back into the deal?
Florida are basically the frontrunners to land Luongo simply due to the fact Luongo wants to go there.
People still forget Luongo holds a NTC and can veto a trade to teams like Columbus, Edmonton, Toronto etc..
There's no way that Luongo is going anywhere else but Florida. The details need to be worked out but Tallon and Gillis will make a deal work.
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#514 King of the ES

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:24 AM

Then we have lost nothing... if the teams are not in the market for a goalie because they "hope" those guys pan out, we aren't getting a good deal from them anyways.


In that scenario, we'll have lost 1 or 2 key potential buyers, which would just make any remaining buyers (if > 1) have more leverage.

There is also the added possibility of a serious season ending injury hitting a goalie, it would indirectly increase Luongo's value. for example, if Florida could get a 1st round pick for Theodore to a desperate team trying to salvage their season... then a Luongo deal looks more positive to them.


I see your "indirect" point, yes. Don't imagine that Florida would get anything close to a 1st for Theodore, but that's fine. Again, though, in this scenario, you're betting on a highly improbable outcome. There would first need to be a season-ending injury to a playoff team's goalie; that playoff team would then need to acquire 1 of some other teams' goalies; and that other team would need to both have an interest in Luongo and be a place that Luongo would be willing to move to.

Just too many risks associated with hanging onto him. If Gillis is smart, there's already a deal in place for Lou once the dispute is resolved.

Edited by King of the ES, 29 October 2012 - 05:24 AM.

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#515 elvis15

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

Bring Florida back into the deal?
Florida are basically the frontrunners to land Luongo simply due to the fact Luongo wants to go there.
People still forget Luongo holds a NTC and can veto a trade to teams like Columbus, Edmonton, Toronto etc..
There's no way that Luongo is going anywhere else but Florida. The details need to be worked out but Tallon and Gillis will make a deal work.

While Florida is Luongo's preferred destination, by no means does it rule out deals with other teams. If Gillis gets a deal he wants from somewhere else (or Florida won't offer something suitable) then of course other options could be where Luongo is moved to.
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#516 Sup CROW

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

Lp
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#517 Gollumpus

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

While Florida is Luongo's preferred destination, by no means does it rule out deals with other teams. If Gillis gets a deal he wants from somewhere else (or Florida won't offer something suitable) then of course other options could be where Luongo is moved to.


I was thinking along similar lines about this just this morning. If Gillis received a call from a team not on Luongo's List, and they made a really good offer for Luongo, would Gillis say, "Gee, thankyou for your interest, however your team is not on the list so my hands are tied." and then hang up, OR, would Gillis listen to the offer, and then call up Luongo (and/or Luongo's agent) and ask how he'd feel going to this other team? Heck, Gillis may even give this other team permission to talk to Luongo directly.

And if this other team looked like they gave Luongo a really good chance of winning a Cup, might he not want to go there (since he is a competitor), or would he just be happy spending the rest of his career sitting on a beach in Florida?

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 29 October 2012 - 05:54 PM.

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#518 Pears

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:35 PM

Bring Florida back into the deal?
Florida are basically the frontrunners to land Luongo simply due to the fact Luongo wants to go there.
People still forget Luongo holds a NTC and can veto a trade to teams like Columbus, Edmonton, Toronto etc..
There's no way that Luongo is going anywhere else but Florida. The details need to be worked out but Tallon and Gillis will make a deal work.

You seem to not pay attention to the news. Luongo said his preferred destination is Florida, but is open to other possibilities as well if a deal can't get done with the Panthers:


http://www.thefourth.../fla120904.html
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#519 elvis15

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:09 PM

I was thinking along similar about this just this morning. If Gillis received a call froom a team not on Luongo's List, and they made a really good offer for Luongo, would Gillis say, "Gee, thankyou for your interest, however your team is not on the list so my hands are tied." and then hang up, OR, would Gillis listen to the offer, and then call up Luongo (and/or Luongo's agent) and ask how he'd feel going to this other team? Heck, Gillis may even give this other team permission to talk to Luongo directly.

And if this other team looked like they gave Luongo a really good chance of winning a Cup, might he not want to go there (since he is a competitor), or would he just be happy spending the rest of his career sitting on a beach in Florida?

regards,
G.

Exactly. Obviously there are no talks now (News 1130 tried to suggest Burke could be in town when the Marlies come to play the Heat and he and Gillis might discuss Luongo then - too bad they can't) but unless Gillis has a specific no-go on a particular team from Luongo he'll listen to any reasonable offer. Since Luongo hasn't submitted a list from what we know of at this point, it appears all teams are options.
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#520 BenDrinkin

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

If people think Luongo will ONLY go to a cup contender, or to Florida, they are full of themselves. Luongo must know full well that he had his shot at the cup, and probably will never get there again. And if there isn't a deal to go to Florida, he ain't going there, and thus he will either choose somewhere else, or play the season on the bench, which he doesn't want to do. Gillis is the one with the power here, not Luongo.
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#521 sampy

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:34 PM

http://bit.ly/SeHSgw

According to the Oiler's media guy, Edmonton is going to make a big trade splash once the CBA is signed. It don't get much bigger than trading for a starting goalie within your division.
Oilers have a lot of prospects the Canucks could fill the cupboard with.

Lu, Sauve, Shroeder, 1st
For
RNH
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#522 Strawberries

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:53 PM

http://bit.ly/SeHSgw

According to the Oiler's media guy, Edmonton is going to make a big trade splash once the CBA is signed. It don't get much bigger than trading for a starting goalie within your division.
Oilers have a lot of prospects the Canucks could fill the cupboard with.

Lu, Sauve, Shroeder, 1st
For
RNH


Dream on they are not moving hopkins
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#523 Provost

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:20 PM

In that scenario, we'll have lost 1 or 2 key potential buyers, which would just make any remaining buyers (if > 1) have more leverage.



I see your "indirect" point, yes. Don't imagine that Florida would get anything close to a 1st for Theodore, but that's fine. Again, though, in this scenario, you're betting on a highly improbable outcome. There would first need to be a season-ending injury to a playoff team's goalie; that playoff team would then need to acquire 1 of some other teams' goalies; and that other team would need to both have an interest in Luongo and be a place that Luongo would be willing to move to.

Just too many risks associated with hanging onto him. If Gillis is smart, there's already a deal in place for Lou once the dispute is resolved.


I think you are missing the main point "if there is no reasonable deal to be had NOW... then keeping Luongo temporarily is a decent option".

The reports out of Toronto suggest that they think they can get Luongo for even less than what they were offering in the summer. It doesn't sound like teams are in the realm of reality of the return we want.

It is a simple concept to me. We need to get a return that is more valuable to us than having two solid goalies during a shortened and compressed season. We missed out on all the big free agents so we don't have any cap issues with keeping them both right now.

Both guys know it would be a temporary solution, and would figure out a way to deal with it.
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#524 King of the ES

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

Lu, Sauve, Shroeder, 1st
For
RNH


:lol:
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#525 elvis15

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

It even says in the article that it'd likely be one of their abundance of wingers that goes, Paajarvi and Hemsky were both mentioned specifically. Gagner was mentioned but so was their lack of top end center depth if they move him. We won't get RNH, Yakupov, Hall or Eberle (and of course not Schultz).

They'd look at goaltending possibly (if it didn't cost too much to acquire) and likely a D that could step into their top 4. They don't want to take on a bunch of cap space. I tried to think of any deals with us from the Oilers perspective.

Maybe something similar to:
Luongo, Connauton, 2nd
for
Paajarvi, Khabibulin, 1st

Perhaps a larger cap deal, switching Connauton with Ballard, and Paajaravi with Hemsky, but the possibility of a deal of this size with a division rival is slim to none. More likely the deal is with someone else if there is one at all.

Maybe (and this is a big maybe) we see the following:
Connauton, 1st
for
Paajarvi, 2nd

Edited by elvis15, 30 October 2012 - 04:02 PM.

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#526 King of the ES

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

It is a simple concept to me. We need to get a return that is more valuable to us than having two solid goalies during a shortened and compressed season. We missed out on all the big free agents so we don't have any cap issues with keeping them both right now.


There are plenty of backups who'd be considered "solid" enough, for what we'd need them for, and they wouldn't be a huge distraction to this team. Dan Ellis is one example, Scott Clemmensen another. Holding onto Luongo for this shortened season, if one even exists (looking unlikely, IMO), is just too risky. It puts the entire team under a microscope and his value will only be lower as a 34 year-old 1 year removed from being an NHL 1A starter - especially if this year were to be a disappointment.

Another thing that nobody else seems to be considering is Luongo. He's been civil so far, but who knows how long that'll last. He could very easily decide to start putting some pressure on Gillis if this thing keeps dragging on for too long. And then his value drops even further. Just too much risk. Cut bait and move on.
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#527 The Bookie

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

I could see the Oilers 'wow' trade being for Bouwmeester.
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#528 Pears

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

http://bit.ly/SeHSgw

According to the Oiler's media guy, Edmonton is going to make a big trade splash once the CBA is signed. It don't get much bigger than trading for a starting goalie within your division.
Oilers have a lot of prospects the Canucks could fill the cupboard with.

Lu, Sauve, Shroeder, 1st
For
RNH

You're joking right? As others have said, Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov and Schultz won't be moved. I could see something like Gagner and/or Hemsky++ for Luongo.

Or their 'big splash', could be one of their young stars for a young, star D man.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 30 October 2012 - 04:04 PM.

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#529 elvis15

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

I could see the Oilers 'wow' trade being for Bouwmeester.

That's way too big a piece to be moved between two teams in the same division, let alone the same province.

Edited by elvis15, 30 October 2012 - 04:03 PM.

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#530 sampy

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

:lol:


Dreaming, I know.

It even says in the article that it'd likely be one of their abundance of wingers that goes, Paajarvi and Hemsky were both mentioned specifically. Gagner was mentioned but so was their lack of top end center depth if they move him. We won't get RNH, Jakupov, Hall or Eberle (and of course not Schultz).

They'd look at goaltending possibly (if it didn't cost too much to acquire) and likely a D that could step into their top 4. They don't want to take on a bunch of cap space. I tired to think of any deals with us from the Oilers perspective.

Maybe something similar to:
Luongo, Connauton, 2nd
for
Paajarvi, Khabibulin, 1st

Perhaps a larger cap deal, switching Connauton with Ballard, and Paajaravi with Hemsky, but the possibility of a deal of this size with a division rival is slim to none. More likely the deal is with someone else if there is one at all.

Maybe (and this is a big maybe) we see the following:
Connauton, 1st
for
Paajarvi, 2nd


Connauton is looking really good for the Wolves, some think he is close to passing Tanev.
So a starting goalie and a good D prospect for Paajarvi who is in every Oiler trade rumor, a 40 year old goalie and a most likely late 1st rd pick. All to a division rival. No thanks.
How about:
Paajarvi, Hemsky, Gagner, Khabi
For
Lu, Raymond (Alberta boy), Sauve, 3rd rd
Or simply Lu and a mid pick for Gagner and Paajarvi.
Oilers are going to have to put in a big offer if they want the Canuks to trade an all star goalie o a division rival.

Edited by sampy, 30 October 2012 - 04:10 PM.

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#531 elvis15

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:27 PM

Well, I did say it was from the Oilers perspective. I doubt their 1st is that late in the round, maybe they make the playoffs but they're less likely to improve greatly just due to getting Luongo than someone like the Leafs. Certainly what they lose with Hemsky and Gagner (and to a lesser extent Paajarvi) isn't going to be replaced by Raymond and Sauve.

Dubnyk was actually pretty good down the stretch for them and wasn't Khabi pretty good to start the year? They still ended up second to last in the league despite that. Their whole team needs to be better and they can't run and gun the whole season, relying on their young stars to put up a bunch of offence and carry the team.

Edited by elvis15, 30 October 2012 - 04:30 PM.

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#532 King of the ES

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:33 PM

FWIW, when I heard of the announcement, my first thought was that Gretzky was going to be back with the organization, in some capacity.
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#533 Merci

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:11 PM

http://bit.ly/SeHSgw

According to the Oiler's media guy, Edmonton is going to make a big trade splash once the CBA is signed. It don't get much bigger than trading for a starting goalie within your division.
Oilers have a lot of prospects the Canucks could fill the cupboard with.

Lu, Sauve, Shroeder, 1st
For
RNH


oh God, please Christ let it be true
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#534 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:45 PM

Another thing that nobody else seems to be considering is Luongo. He's been civil so far, but who knows how long that'll last. He could very easily decide to start putting some pressure on Gillis if this thing keeps dragging on for too long. And then his value drops even further. Just too much risk. Cut bait and move on.


Yeah, there's people out there who want to start "We Didn't Get Enough Back in the Luongo Trade!" threads. :)

regards,
G.
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#535 Pears

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

Yeah, there's people out there who want to start "We Didn't Get Enough Back in the Luongo Trade!" threads. :)

regards,
G.

Yup. Even if we get Jordan Eberle, Phil Kessel or Patrick Kane for Luongo people will still complain.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 30 October 2012 - 05:53 PM.

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#536 Trelane42

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:44 PM

Edmonton’s biggest needs are experienced D men and goaltending.

Assuming 1) J. Schultz is off the table, and 2) that they are actually talking with us, one of their “big four” forwards is the only thing they have worth having. I can’t see MG being interested in guys like Hemsky, Gagner, and Pajarvi since we already have better players in those roles. Wouldn’t rate as a “splash” trade either since they’ve all been rumored to be on the block since forever (of course with attention craving reporters one never knows).

A legitimate potential game breaker, with talent on par with other front line star players, is what we need. Just between us, Kassian, Jansen and Gaunce, while probable good top 9 players in the making, do not project as elite talents. The era of Sedin domination will close soon and our max spending ways ensures that we will be a middling team in the draft order for some time. Meaning we’ll have to luck out to draft a superstar.

Of those four Yakupov has to be viewed as the one they’d most likely deal, for a variety of reasons, including: least proven, not a North American, not yet part of their youngster’s clique, Hall and Eberle just signed long contracts, RNH thought to have most upside by their followers, etc. Yak grew up a Bure fan so that works as well. A realistic, equitable, no BS “hockey deal” would see something like:

Luango and Edler for
Yakupov and one of their better D prospects like Klefbom, Musil, etc.
plus whatever lesser assets need swapping.

Our defense will suffer for it in the short term, but not to the extent that our upfront firepower will when the Sedin slow down hits in earnest. Bieksa and Garrison can handle PP duties, Ballard plays better with more ice time, and Connaughton looks to be ready or close to. Corrado is not far behind. Such a move would allow for a Detroit type competitive model for a longtime. IMO, if we don’t win it all this season we won’t be in serious contention for some time, absent some radical move as suggested.

Luango by himself (meaning no other significant assets) will not fetch a member of their “big four” but Schneider (plus some less significant assets) probably would. A Schneider plus deal for Yak, though not as enticing from our end, is also worth thinking about.

I’d go the Luango route if the Oilers and Lou are willing. They won’t get a better D man/goaltender combo anywhere else, and Edler and Schultz on their PP will be dynamite along with their kid line. Playoff revenues would become a distinct possibility.

Edited by Trelane42, 30 October 2012 - 07:07 PM.

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#537 Riviera82

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

Um, no. Lu was a big part in us getting as far as we did in 2011.

In 2007, he had a GAA of 1.77 and a save percentage of .941.

In 2009 he had a decent GAA of 2.52 and a save percentage .914

His only truly terrible playoff year was 2010. 2012 was mediocre, but not horrible.

Do some research before you assume things.


My apologies. I neglected to mention his one excellent playoff, 2007. Every year since then he has struggled mightily at some point.
Luongo was a big part of our run in 2011, he was also a big part of why we were nearly knocked out in the 1st round after having a 3-0 series lead.
A GAA of 2.52 and Sv% of .914 are mediocre regular season stats nowadays. In the playoffs your'e going nowhere fast with numbers like that, most often than not.
I dont need to do research and I've assumed nothing, saw every frustrating moment first hand.
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#538 smurf47

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

Edmonton’s biggest needs are experienced D men and goaltending.

Assuming 1) J. Schultz is off the table, and 2) that they are actually talking with us, one of their “big four” forwards is the only thing they have worth having. I can’t see MG being interested in guys like Hemsky, Gagner, and Pajarvi since we already have better players in those roles. Wouldn’t rate as a “splash” trade either since they’ve all been rumored to be on the block since forever (of course with attention craving reporters one never knows).

A legitimate potential game breaker, with talent on par with other front line star players, is what we need. Just between us, Kassian, Jansen and Gaunce, while probable good top 9 players in the making, do not project as elite talents. The era of Sedin domination will close soon and our max spending ways ensures that we will be a middling team in the draft order for some time. Meaning we’ll have to luck out to draft a superstar.

Of those four Yakupov has to be viewed as the one they’d most likely deal, for a variety of reasons, including: least proven, not a North American, not yet part of their youngster’s clique, Hall and Eberle just signed long contracts, RNH thought to have most upside by their followers, etc. Yak grew up a Bure fan so that works as well. A realistic, equitable, no BS “hockey deal” would see something like:

Luango and Edler for
Yakupov and one of their better D prospects like Klefbom, Musil, etc.
plus whatever lesser assets need swapping.

Our defense will suffer for it in the short term, but not to the extent that our upfront firepower will when the Sedin slow down hits in earnest. Bieksa and Garrison can handle PP duties, Ballard plays better with more ice time, and Connaughton looks to be ready or close to. Corrado is not far behind. Such a move would allow for a Detroit type competitive model for a longtime. IMO, if we don’t win it all this season we won’t be in serious contention for some time, absent some radical move as suggested.

Luango by himself (meaning no other significant assets) will not fetch a member of their “big four” but Schneider (plus some less significant assets) probably would. A Schneider plus deal for Yak, though not as enticing from our end, is also worth thinking about.

I’d go the Luango route if the Oilers and Lou are willing. They won’t get a better D man/goaltender combo anywhere else, and Edler and Schultz on their PP will be dynamite along with their kid line. Playoff revenues would become a distinct possibility.

I watched Dubnyk a few times last year and see a lot of upside that a bit more experience will improve game. I certainly don;t see Lou as much of an upgrade if at all !!
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#539 RunningWild

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

So I'm guessing Bozak is no longer Gillis's target, if he ever was: http://wraparoundcur...f-tyle-bozak-in
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#540 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

Not one of Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, RNH, Hall, Petry, Klefbom would be involved in a trade for Luongo.
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