oldnews Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Toronto makes the most sense. Lu, Sauve and a 3rd For JVR and Franson Makes sense for both sides. Canucks gain a right handed dman and a power forward with tremendous upside. Burke gets a pick, a prospect and a starting goalie. He saves grace with the fans because all he really gave up was Schenn and Lebda for those pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 That's news to me. Grabovski is not a center and has never played on their top line? Connolly - last three seasons - 23, 24, and 29 hits. Raymond - 64, 38, and 32 (in 55 games after a broken back). My point - you've seen how much complaining there is about Raymond's softness and his 2.5 million cap hit right? Well Connolly is much softer, makes 4.75, and produces marginally more. I didn't see the + in your Bozak proposal. My mistake. I'm not underestimating him - I'm pointing out that he's a UFA and will be in line for more than the 1.5 he is making (if he re-signs). Not enough value to be a centerpiece under the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Toronto makes the most sense. Lu, Sauve and a 3rd For JVR and Franson Makes sense for both sides. Canucks gain a right handed dman and a power forward with tremendous upside. Burke gets a pick, a prospect and a starting goalie. He saves grace with the fans because all he really gave up was Schenn and Lebda for those pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Overpayment. Not sure why Van would need to throw in Sauve and a 3rd. Franson is an RFA who hasn't even re-signed in Toronto. JVR is yet another left wing - and a 4.25 million cap hit who has three - 15, 21 and 11 goal - seasons under his belt. There's a reason Philly was willing to give him up for Schenn - it was a disappointing prospect for disappointing prospect deal. He alone is not worth Luongo - neither was Schenn. He could be a gamble that pays off - I think Burke cut a good deal there - but he hasn't proven that he's worth trading Luongo to acquire, let alone throwing in additional pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Don't reiterate that crap about "well Luongo won't waive his no trade clause to go there....." If we're testing Luongo's pride vs Mike Gillis' patience I put my money on Mike Gillis' patience everytime. I can see Luongo waving his no trade clause even for a place like Long Island or Columbus if it meant he was the number 1 guaranteed starter ( and assuming they had a decent chance at the playoffs at the time Luongo was to be traded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Well played. Oh, but Garrison has only had one (or two) good years hahaha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I understand your rationale but a number of those teams are under serious pressure to win now. Lui gives them that opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The idea that that Bjugstad is untouchable is ridiculous... it is a matter of price and whether we are willing to pay that. It is also a matter of what the new CBA looks like and how that affects Luongo's contract and/or the ability to retain salary or cap space in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ok, well we disagree on Gardiner. I wouldn't take a cap dump to get him - I wouldn't accept him alone in a deal for Luongo - and I wouldn't be interested period, given the signing of Garrison. I see him as a role/third pairing blueliner in Vancouver - he is not going to push Hamhius or Edler out of the top four - he is not particularly physical, not a terribly strong player without the puck, not going to move anyone from the front of the net... Who would be his partner? He would need a right handed guy who would be capable of doing the heavy lifting physically and in his own end. Who would that be? To me Gardiner equals a misfit where the Canucks needs are concerned - don't need another left side guy - and not willing to pay the gross over-valuation. And Connolly is softer than anyone on the Canucks roster (yes, Raymond included) - another misfit for the third line center role. That would be a gawd awful deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Let's see if I understand; Nick Bjugstad, he of yet to play a single professional hockey game, is somehow fair value for Luongo, yet Jake Gardiner, 30-point NHL rookie defenceman in the NHL's most pressure-cooker environment, is somehow a "gross over-valuation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Shirokov Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Can anyone offer a comparison of Colborne to Bjudstad? Both seem to be of similar size, although at this point, Colborne has proven a heck of a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Don't hold your breath on that one. Gillis' patience is a nice thought but all it takes is Luongo to say "hmm, no thanks!", and we're screwed. Not an ideal road to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Out of all the bizarre, straight out of left field comments you've posted on this site this is probably the first one that has at least a little bit of common sense behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Try to take a look at the bigger picture man. It's easy to look at the standings and say " yeah right Luongo goes to Long Island they are terrible!" But you're not taking in to account the fact that Luongo would be closer to his family and be living in NEW YORK. More specially Brooklyn by 2015. Luongo seems to be more inclined to make decisions based on his personal interests and lifestyle rathe than simply choosing the team that gives him the best chance to win. Even with that said, the islanders could be a playoff team sooner rather than later with Neidereitter, Tavares, Reinhart, Hamonic, De Haan as their young core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The Brooklyn announcement certainly might change things, yes. NYI might suddenly become a prime trade partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I debated putting this in the Reports thread, but it seems more suited to the general discussion. From the Edmonton Journal: Why the Edmonton Oilers should be interested in Roberto Luongo October 24, 2012. 10:49 am It’s been a few days now since Vancouver Province reporter Jason Botchfordtweeted that the Edmonton Oilers had made an offer for Vancouver Canucks goaltender Roberto Luongo. Jason Gregor had a nice write-up on the possibility at Oilers Nation, and I was dismayed but not surprised by the overwhelmingly negative reaction. The fact is that Roberto Luongo could be a major difference maker for the Oilers. Let’s start with his much-maligned contract. The cap hit is actually exceedingly reasonable: at $5.33 million/season, Luongo pulls down just $1.83 million more per season than Devan Dubnyk. His salary was front-loaded – the Canucks paid out nearly $17 million over the first two seasons – so his annual compensation in dollars is high but at $6.71 million not ridiculously so. The Oilers, incidentally, could shell out more than $1.5 million for a strong backup goaltender and pay less on a Luongo+ tandem than they’d planned to pay the tag-team of Khabibulin and Dubnyk this season. As for the long-term risk? It’s there, but it’s been allayed significantly in recent weeks. The NHL’s last CBA proposal included a rule that would see long-term contracts stick to the teams that originally inked them – in other words, if Luongo retires, his cap hit sticks to Vancouver until the contract would have ended. Luongo’s 33 now, and his money starts dipping in his 39-year old season. If he retires at that point, Vancouver gets stuck with the cap hit; if he keeps playing but isn’t playing that well his actual salary is quite low and he’d likely have value to low-budget teams wanting to reach the salary cap floor. To date, there’s been no sign of decline in Luongo’s game. Among NHL goaltenders since the last lockout, Luongo ranks fifth in save percentage (0.919), ahead of luminaries such as Ryan Miller (0.916), Miikka Kiprusoff (0.914), Martin Brodeur (0.914) and many others. (His playoff save percentage, at 0.916, is just a hair worse than his regular season totals). 2010-11 was the second-best season of Luongo’s career (0.928 save percentage); last season was exactly in line with his post-lockout numbers (0.919 save percentage). Barring a breakout season, Luongo would also be a significant upgrade on Devan Dubnyk in the here and now. Dubnyk’s career NHL save percentage is 0.910 (a respectable total that matches the post-lockout numbers of Cam Ward and Marc-Andre Fleury); over a 1,600 shot season (roughly what a 60-game goaltender sees) that’s a difference of 14 goals. None of this is to say that the Oilers should be rushing to overpay for Luongo. The money on his contract is significant. There’s been no sign of decline yet, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be – some goalies play well right up to age 40, others see a sharp decline in their late-30’s. Vancouver’s a division rival. Any deal that involved one of the Oilers’ young stars or top prospects (i.e. Nail Yakupov, Justin Schultz) would not be palatable. Ultimately, I don’t think a deal gets done. Vancouver won’t want to trade Luongo to a division rival, and a team like Toronto should have stronger motivation than Edmonton to get a deal done. But Steve Tambellini would not be doing his job if he failed to investigate the possibility. Edit to add: It’s been mentioned to me that Roberto Luongo has a no-trade clause, and of course that’s true, though he’s also on record as saying he would waive it if asked. The quote: Yeah, of course, if they ask me to. I don’t want to be one of those guys who is going to stand in the way of anything. I always want to put the team ahead of me. I don’t want to be one of those selfish guys. Luongo could still choose to block a trade to Edmonton, but it is not certain that he would and I’d argue it certainly makes sense for the Oilers to find out before writing off the possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 No surprise that Dubnyk isn't considered a starter, he's a horrible goaltender. Edmonton has the pieces but would you risk having a team like Edmonton compete for the Northwest title every year, ergo making your best playoff position 4th? On top of that would Luongo be willing to go to snowy Edmonton, and wouldn't his wife have a fit? I like the prospect of what we could get out of Edmonton, but unless they over pay I can't see Gillis risking a late playoff seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Burke also stated a year or so ago that it would take ten first round picks to pry away Schenn. GM's routinely express confidence in coaches, and they also still get fired. Who cares? Then Burke spent nearly 2 years shopping Schenn. It's called posturing... Ever play poker? It was also reported, sorry, not going to bother digging up 5 rumour articles, that rebutted some Gillis inroads with; "here's Bjugstad, now do we have a deal?" Don't know what else was involved, or if it was as much crape as some rumours (like yours and most)? Maybe it had a return salary dump which was not acceptable to MG... But reports have also included Bjugstad. Gillis is on record as saying he wants a deal that "helps us now and in the future." Most pundits are categorizing that as a good young player, a serious prospect and cap relief. Did you check out the links? The only way we will get Bjugstad is if we overpay, and that's not worth it. As my links proved, Bjugstad is what we are demanding and what they won't give us, the extra pieces and cap weren't the issuse, if we could have gotten Bjugstad (and something else) Gillis probably would have taken Upshall or whatever the dump is. And can you prove that the Booth deal did take that long? and if it did it is very simple why they finally went along with it. Because Booth wasn't playing well, they gave him time and realized they might aswell trade him now while they can get a decent return while he still had good value, and that's exactly what they did. Unfortunaley since Bjugstad won't we in the NHL we won't have that opportunity again. Let me as you this since your so intent that it isn't that case even though I just proved great evidence that it is. If that's not the issue, then what is? Why weren't we able to get the deal done in the 2 months we had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Can anyone offer a comparison of Colborne to Bjudstad? Both seem to be of similar size, although at this point, Colborne has proven a heck of a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 And so, are you conceding that the Sedin's are on the decline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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