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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#601 westcoast

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:32 AM

The Oilers will be looking to unload their vets.
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#602 Pears

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:32 AM

No I'm not, and you're again adjusting the question.

You asserted that Lu was a "massive upgrade" over Dubnyk. The stats don't support this, so what does? History? OK, but all that means is that Lu has likely seen his best days already, while Dubnyk has not.

What's your argument? Why is he a "massive upgrade"?

I'm not adjusting the question, your post looked like you were backing smurf's post.

Luongo's best days may be behind him, but Dubnyk' stats over his career have looked like this:

2009-10: 3.57 GAA, .889 SV%
2010-11: 2.71 GAA, .916 SV%
2011-12: 2.67 GAA, .914 SV%

He is improving, but he is a good back up at best.

Its common sense to know that Luongo is a massive upgrade on Dubnyk.

Hey smurf, remember 2006-07? Luongo's first year as a Canuck? Remember how he almost single-handedly took us to the second round? Could Dubnyk do that? Very doubtful.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#603 TimberWolf

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

I don't get it. People are so wrapped up on Nick Bjugstad, but Magnus Paajarvi isn't a good enough return? I'd be shocked if Gillis could get him for Luongo.

What are you expecting?


It's situation, not value.

If we are trading Lu as far as we can geographically across the map, then Bjugstad is a liveable return, but a similar deal that has us trading Lu next door is not viable. Hence why I say that if Edmonton wants him, it would have to be a sweeter deal. (Though I don't believe they would want to)
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#604 250Integra

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

LP
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#605 Pineapples

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

"Desperate" teams will act desperate by adding veteran goalies on expiring contracts - the way that 90% of deadline deals work.

Desperation won't motivate them to act on adding a guy like Luongo with 9 years left on his deal.


If a team wants quality and a guy who will play well for about 5 years at least, then they will make a reasonable offer.

Teams who want to compete every year will make an offer.
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#606 Pineapples

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

Gold medals etc are in the past , no one refutes Lous past accomplishments. Put Lou on the Oilers and dubnyk on the Canucks and see how the stats turn around ! I'll be glad when this is over and you Lou lovers can root for wherever he plays, cuz you can't reason his case !


If that happened I can guarantee you that the Oilers would compete for a playoff spot while the Canucks win fewer games.
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#607 King of the ES

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

I'm not adjusting the question, your post looked like you were backing smurf's post.

Luongo's best days may be behind him, but Dubnyk' stats over his career have looked like this:

2009-10: 3.57 GAA, .889 SV%
2010-11: 2.71 GAA, .916 SV%
2011-12: 2.67 GAA, .914 SV%

He is improving, but he is a good back up at best.

Its common sense to know that Luongo is a massive upgrade on Dubnyk.


"Common sense" isn't a very persuasive argument. Dubnyk's last two years have been very promising, playing in front of the NHL's worst team. If they can get reliable goaltending from him for the foreseeable future, you've got to wonder why they'd consider giving up anything significant for Roberto Luongo.
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#608 King of the ES

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

If a team wants quality and a guy who will play well for about 5 years at least, then they will make a reasonable offer.

Teams who want to compete every year will make an offer.


Why can't Dubnyk do that? Look at his numbers for the last two years. He's 26 years old and a former 1st round pick.
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#609 sampy

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:31 PM

Why can't Dubnyk do that? Look at his numbers for the last two years. He's 26 years old and a former 1st round pick.

Oilers own media guys are saying Lu would be a massive upgrade. I guess you know more.
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#610 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

Lu would be a massive upgrade. Look at GAA and SV% all you want, the only real stat that matters is Wins, a stat Luongo is tied for most in a single season. Head to Head I'm pretty sure any hockey analyst ever would take Luongo over Dubnyk. Even a GAA difference of .2 is quite significant over a season. Luongo is the better goalie, and yes by a mile.
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#611 King of the ES

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

Lu would be a massive upgrade. Look at GAA and SV% all you want, the only real stat that matters is Wins, a stat Luongo is tied for most in a single season. Head to Head I'm pretty sure any hockey analyst ever would take Luongo over Dubnyk. Even a GAA difference of .2 is quite significant over a season. Luongo is the better goalie, and yes by a mile.


If wins is the only real stat that matters, where do you rank Chris Osgood on the all-time list? The fact that Dubnyk had a .500 winning percentage last year is almost unbelievable; Khabibulin, meanwhile was 8 games below that mark.

And sure, head-to-head, today, anyone with half a brain would choose Luongo as their goalie before they'd choose Dubnyk. But would they choose Luongo with the knowledge that he's 7 years older, maybe past his prime, and under contract at $5.3M per year until 2022? These are when the other variables - ie, age and commitment - come into play. This is why Oiler fans are talking about cap dump scenarios in acquiring him. Do you really want Ales Hemsky or Shawn Horcoff, and their contracts? I've seen proposals in this thread that have us getting back RNH and Yakupov - downright laughable.

What do you really think that Edmonton would give up for this "massive upgrade"?
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#612 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

If wins is the only real stat that matters, where do you rank Chris Osgood on the all-time list? The fact that Dubnyk had a .500 winning percentage last year is almost unbelievable; Khabibulin, meanwhile was 8 games below that mark.

And sure, head-to-head, today, anyone with half a brain would choose Luongo as their goalie before they'd choose Dubnyk. But would they choose Luongo with the knowledge that he's 7 years older, maybe past his prime, and under contract at $5.3M per year until 2022? These are when the other variables - ie, age and commitment - come into play. This is why Oiler fans are talking about cap dump scenarios in acquiring him. Do you really want Ales Hemsky or Shawn Horcoff, and their contracts? I've seen proposals in this thread that have us getting back RNH and Yakupov - downright laughable.

What do you really think that Edmonton would give up for this "massive upgrade"?



Edmonton doesn't have enough to get a deal done. Of course, Yak, RNH, Hall or Eberle would work, but I completely agree that there's no way Tamby parts with any of them.

The next tier of players (Pajaarvi, Gags, etc.) IMO, aren't significant enough upgrades to take the risk of giving them what most believe (and me among them) to be a top-tier goaltender.

However, in response to your question of whether teams would look prefer Luongo over their current situation, considering the money and term remaining on his deal, I'd say it's a question of how badly they need/want to make the playoffs next season.

If the answer to that question is "badly", then yes, I think they do the Luongo deal.
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#613 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

I'm not adjusting the question, your post looked like you were backing smurf's post.

Luongo's best days may be behind him, but Dubnyk' stats over his career have looked like this:

2009-10: 3.57 GAA, .889 SV%
2010-11: 2.71 GAA, .916 SV%
2011-12: 2.67 GAA, .914 SV%

He is improving, but he is a good back up at best.

Its common sense to know that Luongo is a massive upgrade on Dubnyk.

Hey smurf, remember 2006-07? Luongo's first year as a Canuck? Remember how he almost single-handedly took us to the second round? Could Dubnyk do that? Very doubtful.

Again...I say...no one is questioning Luongos career but to base your argument on 06-07...5 years ago stats...is no up to date thinking.....and again....what numbers would Lou have posted playing for the weak Oilers over the same period....nice try...but no cigar...but then again...yur too young to buy cigars !!
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#614 Pears

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:22 PM

Again...I say...no one is questioning Luongos career but to base your argument on 06-07...5 years ago stats...is no up to date thinking.....and again....what numbers would Lou have posted playing for the weak Oilers over the same period....nice try...but no cigar...but then again...yur too young to buy cigars !!

And that's what I'm trying to get at! Vancouver in 2006-07 were a defense-first team, didn't have that great of a defense, and barely produced enough offense to win. Canucks acquire Luongo and he turns the team around and dominates up until the Anaheim series. Edmonton is in the same situation the Canucks were in back then. Put Luongo between Edmonton's pipes and watch the Oilers success begin.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#615 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

And that's what I'm trying to get at! Vancouver in 2006-07 were a defense-first team, didn't have that great of a defense, and barely produced enough offense to win. Canucks acquire Luongo and he turns the team around and dominates up until the Anaheim series. Edmonton is in the same situation the Canucks were in back then. Put Luongo between Edmonton's pipes and watch the Oilers success begin.

Sorry, can;t see the parallel but keep trying !!
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#616 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

If wins is the only real stat that matters, where do you rank Chris Osgood on the all-time list? The fact that Dubnyk had a .500 winning percentage last year is almost unbelievable; Khabibulin, meanwhile was 8 games below that mark.

And sure, head-to-head, today, anyone with half a brain would choose Luongo as their goalie before they'd choose Dubnyk. But would they choose Luongo with the knowledge that he's 7 years older, maybe past his prime, and under contract at $5.3M per year until 2022? These are when the other variables - ie, age and commitment - come into play. This is why Oiler fans are talking about cap dump scenarios in acquiring him. Do you really want Ales Hemsky or Shawn Horcoff, and their contracts? I've seen proposals in this thread that have us getting back RNH and Yakupov - downright laughable.

What do you really think that Edmonton would give up for this "massive upgrade"?


For MG to even consider dealing to a divisional rival, the offer would have to be over the top. I'm not saying it would be one of Edmonton's top tier young guys, but it would definitely be youth coming back. I don't think anyone outside of Edmonton would want a 5m Hemsky or a 6m Horcoff. If we were to deal with Edmonton it would have to be an attractive offer coming back, like Omark/Paajarvi and Klefbom or Petry, maybe a pick. Edmonton is quickly going to be flooded with offensive talent, they can probably risk moving one of the guys, who's contract they one day won't be able to afford.

I like most Canuck fans want to see Luongo go East, however if the trade market out West is more attractive it is definitely worth considering.
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#617 D-Money

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

Dubnyk is a pretty good goalie. Luongo is obviously better.

I don't see how cap hit is an issue. Dubnyk's cap hit is already 3.5, so Lu would only be a 1.8 mil increase to that. And if Dubnyk plays decently over the next two years, his contract will be up, and he'll likely cost 5.3 (or more) at that point.

The main issues to such a deal are the potential backfiring that comes with dealing to a divisional rival, Lu's NTC, and Edmonton's more pressing need for quality defensemen. THOSE are the reasons Luongo won't be traded to Edmonton.
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#618 Pears

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

Sorry, can;t see the parallel but keep trying !!

That's because you're a blind Luongo hater.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#619 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

No I'm not, and you're again adjusting the question.

You asserted that Lu was a "massive upgrade" over Dubnyk. The stats don't support this, so what does? History? OK, but all that means is that Lu has likely seen his best days already, while Dubnyk has not.

What's your argument? Why is he a "massive upgrade"?

Gold medals etc are in the past , no one refutes Lous past accomplishments. Put Lou on the Oilers and dubnyk on the Canucks and see how the stats turn around ! I'll be glad when this is over and you Lou lovers can root for wherever he plays, cuz you can't reason his case !


Luongo was our best player last season, (And Schneids too, our tandem was our MVP's) and if you disagree you are either:

1) Crazy/refuse to believe the truth
2) Dont know anything about hockey
3) or you didnt watch all the games

Luongo was our best player, we were bad after the eastern road swing, even terrible at times, and Luongo (and Schneids I must say), put up great perfeormences and carried our buts the rest of the way, and in the playoffs aswell.


now he is was our best player, and carried us at times. If he did all that on the presidents trophy winning team, don't you think that he would be just as good, and stand out just as much if not better on Edmonton?

Think about it?
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#620 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Luongo was our best player last season, (And Schneids too, our tandem was our MVP's) and if you disagree you are either:

1) Crazy/refuse to believe the truth
2) Dont know anything about hockey
3) or you didnt watch all the games

Luongo was our best player, we were bad after the eastern road swing, even terrible at times, and Luongo (and Schneids I must say), put up great perfeormences and carried our buts the rest of the way, and in the playoffs aswell.


now he is was our best player, and carried us at times. If he did all that on the presidents trophy winning team, don't you think that he would be just as good, and stand out just as much if not better on Edmonton?

Think about it?

Lou's stats were middle of the pack on a 1st place team, near bottom on shootouts, Schneiders stats were at the top.....If Luongo was our best player,,,,then we were a sorry bunch indeed !! The only way Lou looked good was to lump him with Schneider who carried his bag.
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#621 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Lou's stats were middle of the pack on a 1st place team, near bottom on shootouts, Schneiders stats were at the top.....If Luongo was our best player,,,,then we were a sorry bunch indeed !! The only way Lou looked good was to lump him with Schneider who carried his bag.


I guess you didnt watch the games.

And yeah were "A sorry bunch indeed" when we came in 1st thanks to Lu.
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#622 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

I guess you didnt watch the games.

And yeah were "A sorry bunch indeed" when we came in 1st thanks to Lu.

and I guess you don;t understand statistics !!! But ...should we expect more...I don;t think so.....
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#623 Pears

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

and I guess you don;t understand statistics !!! But ...should we expect more...I don;t think so.....

Bud, just stop. You're making yourself look like a fool. Players don't get nominated team MVP for s***s and giggles.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#624 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:36 PM

and I guess you don;t understand statistics !!! But ...should we expect more...I don;t think so.....


Ya I do understand statistics actually. (W-L-OTL-SO)

Luongo: 31-14-8-5

Dubnyk: 20-20-3-2


As you can see, Luongo was much better, more wins, less losses, higher winning percentage, but most importantly more shutouts.
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#625 RunningWild

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:03 PM

http://blogs.edmonto...e-some-players/

Lowe ready to move in order to grab one or two pieces Oilers need to contend

Oilers hockey operations boss Kevin Lowe was on Oilers Now with Oilers radio colour man Bob Stauffer on Thursday. A number of topics were covered including the “Wow” trade that Stauffer has been hinting about on his show, a deal that would presumably see the Oilers bring in what sounds like a veteran star in return for prospects and picks.
On the show, Stauffer, an Oilers employee and insider, suggested that no one for a second would contemplate trading any of the Big Four up front (Jordan Eberle, Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Nail Yakupov), but with so many young assets, perhaps there was a way to expedite the process (by way of a trade) of turning around the Oilers.
“You’re going into a game with lots of trump cards,” Lowe said. “That’s the only way you can make deals is if you have assets that are attractive to other teams. When you have assets then you can make deals.
“So, absolutely, we’re at some point, whenever that is, we’re probably not too far down the road, we’re going to have to make some touch choices and maybe move some players, or a player, draft picks, to get a piece or two that finishes off the formation of what you feel is a championship team. I mean, we need to get to the playoffs first (laughed) so you can’t put the cart ahead of the horse, but no question. I don’t talk to managers on a regular basis any more, that’s Steve Tambellini’s job, but I do know from my past experiences that we won’t have a tough job selling anybody on anybody that we have in the event we’re interested in a player on another team.”
The new CBA could make it easier to make trades, Lowe added.
Defence and goal are question marks

Stauffer asked what the biggest question mark about the team going into the season.
“There’s a number of them. Are we strong enough defence? Goaltending is a question mark, and I say that in all respect to Devan Dubnyk and Khabi (Nikolai Khabibulin). Khabi has been injured and he’s approaching 40. He’s given us stretches of strong goaltending but his health is one thing.”
Dubnyk is trending upward, Lowe said, “but he’s got to go out and prove it now if he’s going to take over the Number One job.”



Lowe really knows how to pump his goalies tires. Yowsa.

Edited by RunningWild, 01 November 2012 - 09:05 PM.

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#626 Pineapples

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

Why can't Dubnyk do that? Look at his numbers for the last two years. He's 26 years old and a former 1st round pick.


If I look at his numbers in the last two years and I see that he got 12 wins and 20 wins. Not so convincing. Yes he has promise, but there's still no way he is better than Lu.
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#627 Pineapples

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:45 PM

Lou's stats were middle of the pack on a 1st place team, near bottom on shootouts, Schneiders stats were at the top.....If Luongo was our best player,,,,then we were a sorry bunch indeed !! The only way Lou looked good was to lump him with Schneider who carried his bag.


Did you watch the Canucks last season? If you did then you would know that Lu and Schneider were our 2 best players. Without either of them, we certainly wouldn't have had 1st place.
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#628 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

Did you watch the Canucks last season? If you did then you would know that Lu and Schneider were our 2 best players. Without either of them, we certainly wouldn't have had 1st place.

Schneider was our best...agreed...but one thing we know...if we ever get to see hockey again...we are going to see Lou elsewhere... kiss him goodbye and dry clean your Lou sweaters !!
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#629 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

Bud, just stop. You're making yourself look like a fool. Players don't get nominated team MVP for s***s and giggles.

and they are trading him anyway..read it and weep !!
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#630 smurf47

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

Ya I do understand statistics actually. (W-L-OTL-SO)

Luongo: 31-14-8-5

Dubnyk: 20-20-3-2


As you can see, Luongo was much better, more wins, less losses, higher winning percentage, but most importantly more shutouts.

and hes getting the broom out of Vancouver...figure that one out !
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