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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#661 Trelane42

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

So now Sekaras (team1040) joins the ranks of those with a "trustworthy acquaintance" with ties to the Leafs who claim it is a “done deal.”

Took in the 2nd of the back-to-back Heat-Marlies game and kept an eye on the usual suspects:

Gardiner - silky smooth as advertised. Has Tanev like frame and efficiency in his own zone but the similarities stop there. Much more developed offensive instinct; pinches a lot but seems to get away with it. No wonder MG asked for him, seeing as he’s the only bona fide NHLer on the baby Leafs.

Blacker - a young, RH D man that some (mostly Leaf fans) have thrown out there. Mobility seemed suspect but otherwise did not stand out any one way.

Kadri - has a chippy element in his game and gets in on the hitting, but he goes down a little too often when he has the puck. Offensive creativity was absent today and his passing was a dog’s breakfast. Has 2 seasons of PPG at this level so maybe it was just an off night. I suppose the top 6 upside can’t be dismissed just yet on account of his age, but he better not be the centerpiece of any deal. At present, tapping his stick to call for a pass is the only area where he compares favorably with our usual 2nd line centre.

Colborne - 6’5” centre with alleged scoring upside. Alas, tonight, outside of maybe one good pass and a late wraparound attempt he did not show it. Played with Kadri but there was no chemistry. Classic gentle giant; I got the impression that he’s the kind of guy that players of smaller stature like to hit to establish their willingness to mix it up with big guys street cred. Not a good sign.

Ashton - big winger that skates well, works hard, is OK with rough stuff, and has enough sense to get open for chances. This one could pose a credible challenge for our 4th liners; wouldn’t mind him as a throw in.

All in all, here’s hoping that Mikey scores some actual roster players, draft picks or junior prospects.
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#662 sampy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

So now Sekaras (team1040) joins the ranks of those with a "trustworthy acquaintance" with ties to the Leafs who claim it is a “done deal.”

Took in the 2nd of the back-to-back Heat-Marlies game and kept an eye on the usual suspects:

Gardiner - silky smooth as advertised. Has Tanev like frame and efficiency in his own zone but the similarities stop there. Much more developed offensive instinct; pinches a lot but seems to get away with it. No wonder MG asked for him, seeing as he’s the only bona fide NHLer on the baby Leafs.

Blacker - a young, RH D man that some (mostly Leaf fans) have thrown out there. Mobility seemed suspect but otherwise did not stand out any one way.

Kadri - has a chippy element in his game and gets in on the hitting, but he goes down a little too often when he has the puck. Offensive creativity was absent today and his passing was a dog’s breakfast. Has 2 seasons of PPG at this level so maybe it was just an off night. I suppose the top 6 upside can’t be dismissed just yet on account of his age, but he better not be the centerpiece of any deal. At present, tapping his stick to call for a pass is the only area where he compares favorably with our usual 2nd line centre.

Colborne - 6’5” centre with alleged scoring upside. Alas, tonight, outside of maybe one good pass and a late wraparound attempt he did not show it. Played with Kadri but there was no chemistry. Classic gentle giant; I got the impression that he’s the kind of guy that players of smaller stature like to hit to establish their willingness to mix it up with big guys street cred. Not a good sign.

Ashton - big winger that skates well, works hard, is OK with rough stuff, and has enough sense to get open for chances. This one could pose a credible challenge for our 4th liners; wouldn’t mind him as a throw in.

All in all, here’s hoping that Mikey scores some actual roster players, draft picks or junior prospects.

Thanks for the insight. I've heard and read a bunch of analysts call Colbourne a gentle giant. Softer than Taylor Pyatt. No thanks.
I hope MG is after only Rielly or Gardiner. All the other Leafs prospects have big question marks. JVR would be awesome as well.
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#663 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:00 AM

I have watched several of the Marlowe games and have been thoroughly unimpressed with all of the players except Gardiner.
The only worthwhile players the leafs can offer are Gardiner and Reilly aside from Kessel and Lupul.
Not sure what deal we are getting with the leafs...Matt Fratin? A first?
Do we really think Gillis is dumb enough to accept Bozak and Colborne or Bozak and Carter for Luongo?
I rather Zhollis trade him to Chicago for Bolland and Beach/ Hayes
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#664 King of the ES

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:15 AM

So not only is MPS for Lu a bad trade, the Canucks are gonna throw in Ballard too, wow. Lecav and Lu is a terrible comparaison. Goaltending is a more important position. Lu is still a top goalie, Lecav isn't even close to where he used to be. Their salary and caphit isn't close. Goaltenders are know to play at a higher level for longer than forwards.
Also, Kassian brings a lot more to the table than MPS. MPS doesn't have a physical side. 10 out of 10 GMs would choose Kassian over MPS.
Has anybody ever agreed with your assessments.


Getting rid of Ballard is a benefit to the Canucks - this way, they're not on the hook for $4.2M payable to their 5th - 7th defenceman over the next 3 seasons. The weakness of Edmonton's D might make them receptive to taking on Ballard.

Kassian does not "bring a lot more to the table" than MPS. They were drafted in the same year, MPS 3 spots ahead. Kassian's more physical, MPS is more offensively gifted. And now that Kassian's lost all this weight, they're basically even the same size (MPS listed at 204 pounds). So how does he "bring a lot more to the table", exactly? Because he's a Canuck?
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#665 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:16 AM

Gardiner- 1good season and he is too goo to be moved for an all star goalie, Olympic gold medallist and franchise player who will probably get them into the playoffs- lol.
I find this hysterical

Edited by eretz canucks, 03 November 2012 - 09:17 AM.

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#666 Boudrias

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

So now Sekaras (team1040) joins the ranks of those with a "trustworthy acquaintance" with ties to the Leafs who claim it is a “done deal.”

Took in the 2nd of the back-to-back Heat-Marlies game and kept an eye on the usual suspects:

Gardiner - silky smooth as advertised. Has Tanev like frame and efficiency in his own zone but the similarities stop there. Much more developed offensive instinct; pinches a lot but seems to get away with it. No wonder MG asked for him, seeing as he’s the only bona fide NHLer on the baby Leafs.

Blacker - a young, RH D man that some (mostly Leaf fans) have thrown out there. Mobility seemed suspect but otherwise did not stand out any one way.

Kadri - has a chippy element in his game and gets in on the hitting, but he goes down a little too often when he has the puck. Offensive creativity was absent today and his passing was a dog’s breakfast. Has 2 seasons of PPG at this level so maybe it was just an off night. I suppose the top 6 upside can’t be dismissed just yet on account of his age, but he better not be the centerpiece of any deal. At present, tapping his stick to call for a pass is the only area where he compares favorably with our usual 2nd line centre.

Colborne - 6’5” centre with alleged scoring upside. Alas, tonight, outside of maybe one good pass and a late wraparound attempt he did not show it. Played with Kadri but there was no chemistry. Classic gentle giant; I got the impression that he’s the kind of guy that players of smaller stature like to hit to establish their willingness to mix it up with big guys street cred. Not a good sign.

Ashton - big winger that skates well, works hard, is OK with rough stuff, and has enough sense to get open for chances. This one could pose a credible challenge for our 4th liners; wouldn’t mind him as a throw in.

All in all, here’s hoping that Mikey scores some actual roster players, draft picks or junior prospects.

I watched Colbourne in the Marlie - Bulldog game. Have to concur with your take. Not agressive in front at all. Pretty much unnoticeable. I remember when Brent Ashton broke in with Vancouver and much like his son took awhile to establish himself. Unfortunately Van gave up on him to soon. It seems like Carter is more physical than his father was.
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#667 King of the ES

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

Paajarvi/Kassian comparisons aside, do you really believe Luongo is only worth a prospect who can only crack the Oilers roster half the time? Even with the less than ideal contract, Luongo is worth more than Paajarvi.


"Worth" is a term that needs to be evaluated in context.

A player is "worth" what another team will pay for him in trade. The reality is that there are just not a lot of teams lining up to acquire Luongo. Maybe Toronto, maybe Florida, maybe Edmonton, etc. If any team urgently wanted him, the deal would already have been done. It's not done because they're not offering anything that's motivating Mike Gillis to act. And they're not offering anything that's motivating Mike Gillis to act, because the context of this deal is that Vancouver needs to unload him, there are a limited pool of buyers already, and that's further limited by Luongo's NTC. In all cases, the advantage goes to the buyer.

If we could get a high-end prospect like Paajarvi out of this, it'd have to be thought-of as a huge win from the Canucks' side - besides the obvious fact that Edmonton becomes a better team.

Edited by King of the ES, 03 November 2012 - 09:21 AM.

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#668 King of the ES

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:34 AM

I haven't "written Paajarvi off" - I have pointed out that his value took a serious hit last year and that he's certainly not worth a legitimate franchise goaltender yet, let alone Luongo and Ballard.


If that's the case, then how in the world does your proposal of Nick Bjugstad and Alexander Petrovic fetch the all-world, "legitimate franchise goaltender" that is Roberto Luongo?

You've suggested bringing in Michael Frolik and now want to extremely overpay for Paajarvi (who combined for 7 goals and 16 assists last year) - what solutions you have for the top six!!!



Awfully misleading statement, pretty embarrassing on your part.

Number 1, in addition to Frolik, my proposal had us landing that Nick Leddy guy, too, as well as Kyle Beach.

Number 2, those "7 goals and 16 assists" (actually 18, must've been a Freudian slip on your part) occurred in 34 games. That's almost identical to Kassian's production of 26 points in 30 games - that same Kassian that you wouldn't even dream of trading for Paajarvi.

And you are the person who cries "window" endlessly - neither of those guys could crack the Canucks top six next year, if they could make the roster at all. This is not a deal where the Canucks are moving a disgruntled prospect like Hodgson for another prospect. Terrible returns you are proposing for Luongo


What you don't understand is that nobody cares about what Mike Gillis wants for Luongo. Nobody cares that he wants a top 6 forward, a prospect, and a 1st. They'll offer what they're willing to pay, which, evidently, is FAR, FAR less than what guys like Gillis, you, and a bunch of the other homers on this site feel is "fair". Buyers don't care about "fairness".

Gillis' only option is holding on to Luongo, hoping and praying that the offers will somehow get better, all the while creating a huge distraction and two disgruntled goaltenders. His choice, I guess.
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#669 sampy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

Getting rid of Ballard is a benefit to the Canucks - this way, they're not on the hook for $4.2M payable to their 5th - 7th defenceman over the next 3 seasons. The weakness of Edmonton's D might make them receptive to taking on Ballard.

Kassian does not "bring a lot more to the table" than MPS. They were drafted in the same year, MPS 3 spots ahead. Kassian's more physical, MPS is more offensively gifted. And now that Kassian's lost all this weight, they're basically even the same size (MPS listed at 204 pounds). So how does he "bring a lot more to the table", exactly? Because he's a Canuck?

Has MPS ever stood up for his teammates. He is also not more gifted offensively.
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#670 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

Gardiner- 1good season and he is too goo to be moved for an all star goalie, Olympic gold medallist and franchise player who will probably get them into the playoffs- lol.
I find this hysterical


That's not the point. Burke is not going to give up his best defenseman for a long contract goalie who is 33 and is now our backup. Negotiating is understanding the other side's weakness/strengths. MG doesn't have a ton of bargaining power but also won't give up Lou for nothing.

I live in T.O and Gardiner is going to be a terrific player. And he certainly is their best offensive Dman. That's why it wouldn't happen.

Some of the other comments on here I agree with in regards to other players Colborne, Kadri, wouldn't want them. The prob with trading with the leafs is they really don't have much to offer that they can/willing to part with, that's why they suck, they have little on their roster and nothing in terms of youth.

Players who we should target:

Gardiner - for sure but he's going nowhere

Grabovsky - Terrific player who brings effort and skill everynight, the talented skilled player we're missing on the second line. With JVR moving to center he maybe can be moved, but my guess is Burke would prefer to move Bozak and argue he's a first line center when he's really not, just plays on the first line with Kessel and Lupul.

Bozak - part of the deal but can't be the key piece, solid player but at best a third line player in Vancouver

Franson - Size, from BC

Other than that, they have little to offer other than picks...

My 'fair' deal for the Nucks

Lou, Ballard and a 2nd pick for

Grabovsky and Franson and a 3rd

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 03 November 2012 - 03:35 PM.

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#671 TmanVan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

That's not the point. Burke is not going to give up his best defenseman for a long contract goalie who is 33 and is now our backup. Negotiating is understanding the other side's weakness/strengths. MG doesn't have a ton of bargaining power but also won't give up Lou for nothing.

I live in T.O and Gardiner is going to be a terrific player. And he certainly is their best offensive Dman. That's why it wouldn't happen.

Some of the other comments on here I agree with in regards to other players Colborne, Kadri, wouldn't want them. The prob with trading with the leafs is they really don't have much to offer that they can/willing to part with, that's why they suck, they have little on their roster and nothing in terms of youth.

Players who we should target:

Gardiner - for sure but he's going nowhere

Grabovsky - Terrific player who brings effort and skill everynight, the talented skilled player we're missing on the second line. With JVR moving to center he maybe can be moved, but my guess is Burke would prefer to move Bozak and argue he's a first line center when he's really not, just plays on the first line with Kessel and Lupul.

Bozak - part of the deal but can't be the key piece, solid player but at best a third line player in Vancouver

Franson - Size, from BC

Other than that, they have little to offer other than picks...

My 'fair' deal for the Nucks

Lou, Ballard and a 2nd pick for

Grabovsky and Franson and a 3rd


No thanks. For Lou Ballard and a 2nd I would want something more like Bozak, Ashton, and a 1st. Or Kadri, Finn, and a 1st
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#672 higgyfan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

That's not the point. Burke is not going to give up his best defenseman for a long contract goalie who is 33 and is now our backup. Negotiating is understanding the other side's weakness/strengths. MG doesn't have a ton of bargaining power but also won't give up Lou for nothing.

I live in T.O and Gardiner is going to be a terrific player. And he certainly is their best offensive Dman. That's why it wouldn't happen.

Some of the other comments on here I agree with in regards to other players Colborne, Kadri, wouldn't want them. The prob with trading with the leafs is they really don't have much to offer that they can/willing to part with, that's why they suck, they have little on their roster and nothing in terms of youth.

Players who we should target:

Gardiner - for sure but he's going nowhere

Grabovsky - Terrific player who brings effort and skill everynight, the talented skilled player we're missing on the second line. With JVR moving to center he maybe can be moved, but my guess is Burke would prefer to move Bozak and argue he's a first line center when he's really not, just plays on the first line with Kessel and Lupul.

Bozak - part of the deal but can't be the key piece, solid player but at best a third line player in Vancouver

Franson - Size, from BC

Other than that, they have little to offer other than picks...

My 'fair' deal for the Nucks

Lou, Ballard and a 2nd pick for

Grabovsky and Franson and a 3rd


Awesome trade. Grabovsky would be great for this team. Not too sure about Franson. Is he still leaf property? Thought he'd left to go play in Europe. If not, I think Franson still has potential to develop in the 'Nuck system. Of their current players, Grabs is the only player (other than the untouchables) that would 'make our team better'.
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#673 Millerdraft

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

Soft goal from behind the goal line is Luongos nightmare, Richards knew where to shoot on him if Lou kept that out and the Canucks beat the 5 on 3 the outcome of that game would have been probably different. The team did in fact deflate and played like crap after that goal. I have been a big Luongo supporter but those weak behind the net goals he lets in are game killers. Smart players know if you shoot at his feet from bad angles you have a good chance it will go in. Enough is enough.


That's also been the knock on, arguably, the greatest goaltender of all time, Martin Brodeur.

Lecavalier's goal in this playoff game: http://www.nhl.com/i...m?id=2006030123

The Flyers and 'Canes have exploited this weakness as well.

Getting rid of Ballard is a benefit to the Canucks - this way, they're not on the hook for $4.2M payable to their 5th - 7th defenceman over the next 3 seasons. The weakness of Edmonton's D might make them receptive to taking on Ballard.

Kassian does not "bring a lot more to the table" than MPS. They were drafted in the same year, MPS 3 spots ahead. Kassian's more physical, MPS is more offensively gifted. And now that Kassian's lost all this weight, they're basically even the same size (MPS listed at 204 pounds). So how does he "bring a lot more to the table", exactly? Because he's a Canuck?


Was MPS also drafted for his bone crushing hits, willingness to drop the gloves with anyone and nasty mean streak on top of his top-six skill set? Because that's what got Kassian drafted in the 1st round.

The only areas in common the two players might have is their ability to protect the puck and their skating.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#674 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

Was MPS also drafted for his bone crushing hits, willingness to drop the gloves with anyone and nasty mean streak on top of his top-six skill set? Because that's what got Kassian drafted in the 1st round.

The only areas in common the two players might have is their ability to protect the puck and their skating.

MPS was drafted in the first round on the basis of his hockey sense, skating ability and size.

MPS is 10 times the skater Kassian is, it's not even close.
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#675 Pears

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

MPS was drafted in the first round on the basis of his hockey sense, skating ability and size.

MPS is 10 times the skater Kassian is, it's not even close.

And Kassian is 10 times the hockey player MPS is, its not even close.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#676 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Gunnarsson+Kulemin+1st for Raymond+Loungo+3rd


That's what I propose anyhow...

Edited by Standing_Tall#37, 03 November 2012 - 08:17 PM.

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#677 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

And Kassian is 10 times the hockey player MPS is, its not even close.

MPS has had much more of an impact in the NHL thus far so you have no ground to stand on.
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#678 Pears

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

MPS has had much more of an impact in the NHL thus far so you have no ground to stand on.

And what do you mean by MPS having 'much more of an impact in the NHL thus far'? I don't see him helping the Oilers make the playoffs over the last couple of years.

Also, you can't really argue that MPS has made more of an impact than Kassian has because Zack has played less games in the NHL than Paajarvi has (83 > 44)
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#679 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

And what do you mean by MPS having 'much more of an impact in the NHL thus far'? I don't see him helping the Oilers make the playoffs over the last couple of years.

Also, you can't really argue that MPS has made more of an impact than Kassian has because Zack has played less games in the NHL than Paajarvi has (83 > 44)

I didn't see Kassian carry the Canucks to the playoffs either. Paajarvi still has better goals and assists per game than Kassian.
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#680 Pears

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:39 PM

I didn't see Kassian carry the Canucks to the playoffs either. Paajarvi still has better goals and assists per game than Kassian.

And I didn't see Kassian get more than 4 minutes of ice time either. Not much you can do when you're benched for more than 80% of a game.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#681 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:46 PM

And I didn't see Kassian get more than 4 minutes of ice time either. Not much you can do when you're benched for more than 80% of a game.

How bout play good enough to get more ice time.
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#682 Pears

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

How bout play good enough to get more ice time.

Tell that to Paajarvi, maybe he won't get sent down as much as he does.

Wait...how did this go from a Luongo trade discussion thread to a Kassian vs Paajarvi thread?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#683 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:01 PM

Luongo FOR Paajarvi

Paajarvi not good enough

Kassian FOR Lecavailier

Kassian too much for Leacavalier

Paajarvi better than Kassian but Luongo better than Lecavalier
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#684 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

Kass > Paajarvi. One is Swedish and can't crack a crap Oilers line up, one is Canadian and plays like it, while spending time with the twins last season. I'll take Kass any day, you can keep the Swede.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#685 sampy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:02 AM

I didn't see Kassian carry the Canucks to the playoffs either. Paajarvi still has better goals and assists per game than Kassian.

Are you comparing the Canucks lineup to the Oilers. Anybody with half a brain would know the Oilers lineup is a lot easier to crack then the Canucks. Every GM would choose Kassian over MPS.
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#686 King of the ES

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:31 AM

And Kassian is 10 times the hockey player MPS is, its not even close.


:lol:

Seriously, on what grounds can you possibly make a statement like this with a straight face?
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#687 King of the ES

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

And I didn't see Kassian get more than 4 minutes of ice time either. Not much you can do when you're benched for more than 80% of a game.


You've just raised a good point in Conor's favour. Bravo.
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#688 King of the ES

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:39 AM

Wait...how did this go from a Luongo trade discussion thread to a Kassian vs Paajarvi thread?


Because I brought up the notion that if we're dealing with Edmonton, Paajarvi should be the obvious target. A guy who did not have a good sophomore season, and who may be expendable due to Edmonton's embarrassment of riches elsewhere up front.

...which, of course, shocked a lot of the fanboys here, who have already written-off Paajarvi as a bust, even though he's younger than Kassian (and had a 15-goal rookie season in the NHL 2 years ago).

I think you're one of the guys who suggested Yakupov as payment for Luongo, so that's where more reasonable people like me and Connor need to step in and bring the fanboys back down to planet earth.
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#689 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

Are you comparing the Canucks lineup to the Oilers. Anybody with half a brain would know the Oilers lineup is a lot easier to crack then the Canucks. Every GM would choose Kassian over MPS.


Depends on your needs. if you think cracking the Oilers top 6 is easy you are clueless, and much like Schroeder with us, if he can't crack the top 6 he won't make it.
Most teams in the league Schroeder is an NHL regular, and if the Oilers did not have 4 guys 22 or younger in their top 6 last season, Paajarvi would likely be a regular as well.
Hall, Eberle, RNH, Horcoff, Smith, Gagner, Hemskey are not slouches.

Edited by Get real canuck fans, 04 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

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#690 sampy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

Depends on your needs. if you think cracking the Oilers top 6 is easy you are clueless, and much like Schroeder with us, if he can't crack the top 6 he won't make it.
Most teams in the league Schroeder is an NHL regular, and if the Oilers did not have 4 guys 22 or younger in their top 6 last season, Paajarvi would likely be a regular as well.
Hall, Eberle, RNH, Horcoff, Smith, Gagner, Hemskey are not slouches.

Hodgson played on the 3rd line in Van, is he considered a typical 3rd line player???
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