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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#721 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

well you are 16..whats that...midget hockey. maybe 10 yrs of hockey no coaching experience...probably not a goaltender..compared to my 43 years of experience with goaltending....I;d think on that weight, my opinions on Dubnyk and Lou carry just a titch more value. I stated many pages earlier that I doubted if Lou was a better option if at all for the oilers. Few , on here have agreed with the "massive upgrade" opinion that you spouted. Its your opinion, welcome to it...but might not be an accurate assumption. Lou will go where destiny sends him but he won;t be in Vancouver.

I can see the Oilers trading for Luongo not because he's a massive upgrade but he is at least a guaranteed starter. They would only do it if they can get him at good value. That would leave other options open.

Maybe they trade Belanger, Hamilton and Omark FOR Luongo. They then could trade Dubnyk to Columbus. Dubnyk may turn out to be better than Luongo or he may prove that he isn't starter material. The Oilers would have at least got a guaranteed starter for not much in return plus whatever return they get on Dubnyk.

If the price for Luongo is much higher than that then the trade is not worth it for the Oilers.

#722 eretz canucks

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

I would take Bjugstad and Pettovic in a heart beat, ESP because Luongo should go to Florida because he will be happiest there.
Petrovic is a big Canadian right handed d man and has a mean streak, we don't have a guy like that in our system. Bjugstad gives us a possible future 2nd line center who uses his size.

MPS is softish but has had some success at NHL level.

We can't trade Luongo (an allstar) and get back garbage and C prospects. Hope Gillis doesn't blow this.

#723 Strawberries

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

I would take Bjugstad and Pettovic in a heart beat, ESP because Luongo should go to Florida because he will be happiest there.
Petrovic is a big Canadian right handed d man and has a mean streak, we don't have a guy like that in our system. Bjugstad gives us a possible future 2nd line center who uses his size.

MPS is softish but has had some success at NHL level.

We can't trade Luongo (an allstar) and get back garbage and C prospects. Hope Gillis doesn't blow this.


Florida Wont give .. that is the problem
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#724 oldnews

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:35 PM

OK, so in addition to the meager return of Bjugstad and Petrovic, we also have to absorb a terrible contract in Upshall. What a great deal!


You're hilarious King. A meagre return? You can regularly be heard uttering nonsense to the effect that the Canucks are fighting for table scraps in return for Luongo, and making absurd proposals involving Luongo and a top 6 (yes, Ballard is clearly a top six and is a top 4 on most NHL teams - to suggest otherwise is ridiculous) for Paajarvi (lol) and now here you are calling Bjugstad, Petrovic and Upshall a "meagre" return. You are consistent with your contradictions - underselling Luongo, and yet complaining that this deal would not be enough,. According to you, Edmonton won't part with Paajarvi, but those three Panthers are meagre. Hurr hurr.
I'd take Upshall as part of that deal in a heartbeat - if he is able to play, he's one hell of a player - if he's injured, his cap hit doesn't apply - and his contract is 3.5 for (less than) three years - hardly a "terrible" contract. You embellish - and obviously haven't seen a healthy Upshall play (or had your usual blinders on).
If that deal were cut, you'd be one of the very few complaining.

Edited by oldnews, 04 November 2012 - 11:38 PM.


#725 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

well you are 16..whats that...midget hockey. maybe 10 yrs of hockey no coaching experience...probably not a goaltender..compared to my 43 years of experience with goaltending....I;d think on that weight, my opinions on Dubnyk and Lou carry just a titch more value. I stated many pages earlier that I doubted if Lou was a better option if at all for the oilers. Few , on here have agreed with the "massive upgrade" opinion that you spouted. Its your opinion, welcome to it...but might not be an accurate assumption. Lou will go where destiny sends him but he won;t be in Vancouver.


I share his opinon, Lu is a significant upgrade on Dubnyk and people in the hockey world who knows whats going on would probably share that view.

Now I argued with you about this on those pages, and I made some great points, which you didn't counter with any points of your own, in fact you didn't even reply to the last one, I assume because you realized that I was right.

Now can you explain why you think Lu isn't a better option, because from arguing with you before I realized you are very biased against Luongo.

Which right away throws your opinion with your apparent "43 years" of goaltending experience out the window, because it is unfair due to the bias.

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#726 WolfxHaley

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:02 AM

well you are 16..whats that...midget hockey. maybe 10 yrs of hockey no coaching experience...probably not a goaltender..compared to my 43 years of experience with goaltending....I;d think on that weight, my opinions on Dubnyk and Lou carry just a titch more value. I stated many pages earlier that I doubted if Lou was a better option if at all for the oilers. Few , on here have agreed with the "massive upgrade" opinion that you spouted. Its your opinion, welcome to it...but might not be an accurate assumption. Lou will go where destiny sends him but he won;t be in Vancouver.

Cool can I play this game as well?!?!
Your 43 years of experience with goaltending is minor compared to my 90 years of goaltending, playing, coaching, reffing, ice sweeping and GMing. Take that!





Man I never knew that I could spew that stuff out on the internet to make myself look cool!...Wait...I mean...I dont have to prove it right?

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#727 King of the ES

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

And It doesn't seem like you even watched the games last year since you didn't know he was injured with a concussion before the playoffs. But anyways unlike you I watched all the games, and paid close attention and he was fine, he played well, I went to game 2 against LA, his first game back, watched him very very closely. he was our best player.


Spin it however you want, nobody was good, we lost in 5 and it wasn't even close. Ballard had 1 assist in 4 games. Calling him "stellar" is hilarious.

Okay what do you have to back up that statement? Like I said we trade Ballard for a defensemen in the same situation (Say Komisarek) Then what? He comes here and plays just as bad?? Why? or else we trade him for a 3rd/4th line tweener forward or a 4th-7th round pick, according to your logic.


I can back up that statement with infinite possibilities. It would depend on which teams are not doing good. Whoever is not doing good will obviously want to shed salary - having free cap space allows us the flexibility to pounce on opportunities like that.

#728 King of the ES

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

You're hilarious King. A meagre return? You can regularly be heard uttering nonsense to the effect that the Canucks are fighting for table scraps in return for Luongo, and making absurd proposals involving Luongo and a top 6 (yes, Ballard is clearly a top six and is a top 4 on most NHL teams - to suggest otherwise is ridiculous) for Paajarvi (lol) and now here you are calling Bjugstad, Petrovic and Upshall a "meagre" return. You are consistent with your contradictions - underselling Luongo, and yet complaining that this deal would not be enough,. According to you, Edmonton won't part with Paajarvi, but those three Panthers are meagre. Hurr hurr.


You've got it wrong again. I'm not suggesting that the Canucks will get Paajarvi; I'm suggesting that they'd be lucky to.

This most recent argument stems from the fact that you're aghast at the gall of me suggesting that the Canucks would accept "just" Paajarvi, while simultaneously targeting Nick Bjugstad and some other "big, mean D", which is strange, since Paajarvi's produced at both the AHL and the NHL level, while Bjugstad's a complete gamble at this point, playing against a bunch of stoners in the NCAA. You talk about contradictions, this is the greatest of them all.

I'd take Upshall as part of that deal in a heartbeat - if he is able to play, he's one hell of a player - if he's injured, his cap hit doesn't apply - and his contract is 3.5 for (less than) three years - hardly a "terrible" contract. You embellish - and obviously haven't seen a healthy Upshall play (or had your usual blinders on).
If that deal were cut, you'd be one of the very few complaining.


This is funny.

This is the same guy going on and on about Michael Frolik, and how guys like he and MPS have "fallen off the charts" on their respective teams. Scottie Upshall had 2 goals last year as a member of the Florida Panthers, in 26 games played (on pace for about 6). Scottie Upshall has played on 4 different teams since 2008. His career high in point totals is 34 - which MPS reached in 2010-11 as a 19 year-old rookie! Yet you want to commit $10.5M of cap space to this guy, over 3 years, who really has no offensive upside (unlike Frolik - who has scored 20 goals twice - or Paajarvi), and who will surely be relegated to our bottom six?

Of all of the supposed contradictions that you claim that I make (BS), care to explain this one to me? You want Scottie Upshall, yet you're appalled by the suggestion of Michael Frolik or Magnus Paajarvi.

Edited by King of the ES, 05 November 2012 - 05:00 AM.


#729 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:08 AM

Not saying that I agree with the guy, but have you looked at Dubnyk's numbers from last year?

Dubnyk: 20-20-3, 2.67, .914, 2 SO
Luongo: 31-14-8, 2.41, .919, 5 SO

In theory, given that Dubnyk is 7 years younger, it's also reasonable to assume that one guy should probably be headed up, another guy probably headed down.

So I'd like to hear why you're so wound up over this "massive upgrade" comment. Or do numbers only count when they favour the Canucks' side?


Actually just watch them play and use your brain. Luongo is obviously the far better option despite what a couple of numbers might tell you. His winning percentage is far higher which should tell you that he wins games, which Dubnyk isn't doing with any consistency. What's next, Wellwood is better than Hernik?

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#730 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

Lou's stats were middle of the pack on a 1st place team, near bottom on shootouts, Schneiders stats were at the top.....If Luongo was our best player,,,,then we were a sorry bunch indeed !! The only way Lou looked good was to lump him with Schneider who carried his bag.


You obviously don't watch the games so why make stupid comments based on something you know nothing about? I myself have felt that Lou has been shaky in the past and downright awful at times but last year he got his game back and was undoubtedly one of the best if not the best player on the team. Get your head our of your arse.

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#731 sampy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

You obviously don't watch the games so why make stupid comments based on something you know nothing about? I myself have felt that Lou has been shaky in the past and downright awful at times but last year he got his game back and was undoubtedly one of the best if not the best player on the team. Get your head our of your arse.


Agreed. If it wasn't for Lu, the Canucks would have been no where near 1st place. It is laughable to compare Dubnyk to Lu. Even the Oilers management have said they are looking for goaltending help. Smurf, you claim to be some great goalie guru but yet you compare a multiple All Star franchise goalie to an unproven goalie who's team has had the worst goals against for the past few years.

King of BS:
MPS has 40 hits in 2 seasons. Upshall had more than that in 26 games last year. Kassian has double the amount of hits in a 1/3 of the games in their career. Both these players bring a lot more to the table which is why MPS can't even crack a last place teams lineup.

Do you have any clue what you are taking about?? I have yet to see a good post from you yet you continue to argue with everyone on here.

Edited by sampy, 05 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#732 Pears

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

You've got it wrong again. I'm not suggesting that the Canucks will get Paajarvi; I'm suggesting that they'd be lucky .

Wow king...wow, just wow. Vancouver would be LUCKY to get Paajarvi for not only Luongo but Ballard as well?? And that still wouldn't be enough for Magnus freaking Paajarvi?!!?!!? You just brought yourself down to a whole new level of dumb :picard:

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 05 November 2012 - 11:03 AM.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#733 Riviera82

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

You obviously don't watch the games so why make stupid comments based on something you know nothing about? I myself have felt that Lou has been shaky in the past and downright awful at times but last year he got his game back and was undoubtedly one of the best if not the best player on the team. Get your head our of your arse.


Luongo was the second best goaltender on the Canucks last year and a distant second in the playoffs. He "got his game back" last year? He was a middle of the pack goalie in every statistical category, he can take his game to Toronto or elsewhere.
Take your own advice.

#734 sampy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

Luongo was the second best goaltender on the Canucks last year and a distant second in the playoffs. He "got his game back" last year? He was a middle of the pack goalie in every statistical category, he can take his game to Toronto or elsewhere.
Take your own advice.

Well if you actually watched the Canucks play, you'd have realized Lu was amazing down the stretch, starting 29 of the teams last 45 games and in a 2 month span he was 10-1-3 while the Canucks offense was a non-factor. I think Lu is the one that needs to be traded but to dismiss his level of play shows your loyalty and knowledge.
Gotta love Vancouver's brutal bandwagon fanbase.

#735 D-Money

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:34 PM

Luongo was the second best goaltender on the Canucks last year and a distant second in the playoffs. He "got his game back" last year? He was a middle of the pack goalie in every statistical category, he can take his game to Toronto or elsewhere.
Take your own advice.


Luongo was the second best goaltender on the Canucks, not because he played poorly though. Schneider put on a clinic.

His save percentage of .937 was only beat by Elliot's .940 - nobody else (who played more than a few games) even came close. And then his .960 save percentage in the playoffs - although in limited duty - was the best in the league by a wide margin.

Schneider is the real deal. He's cheaper and younger too. That is why Luongo is available. Not because he isn't significantly better than at least half of the starting goaltenders in the league - ESPECIALLY than the scrubs the Leafs and Oilers have.

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#736 Millerdraft

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:44 PM

well you are 16..whats that...midget hockey. maybe 10 yrs of hockey no coaching experience...probably not a goaltender..compared to my 43 years of experience with goaltending....I;d think on that weight, my opinions on Dubnyk and Lou carry just a titch more value. I stated many pages earlier that I doubted if Lou was a better option if at all for the oilers. Few , on here have agreed with the "massive upgrade" opinion that you spouted. Its your opinion, welcome to it...but might not be an accurate assumption. Lou will go where destiny sends him but he won;t be in Vancouver.

Here's someone else with far more extensive knowledge, and experience, than you talking about Luongo:

“Although, (Toronto) would love to get him, boy,” Cherry added. “I think he’s a dynamite goaltender.”


Have you heard him say anything remotely the same about Dubnyk or why the Leafs should purse him (Dubnyk)?

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#737 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

Paajarvi + Dubnyk > Luongo + Bjugstad .... LOL

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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#738 L'Orange

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

I've stated clearly the same viewpoint since Day 1. That is that this whole event has been badly mishandled by Canuck management, and now we're stuck trading Luongo, who's still very good, at a time when he has very little marketability.

There has been no flip-flopping in my position whatsoever. I would rather have moved Schneider - sold high - and kept Luongo. But that's not happening.


And that is thankfully why you are not the GM. Selling high by trading Schneider would have given us a great return, no doubt. We could have received a marquee player in return. But we would have lost a goaltender who will be one of the elite backstoppers in the league coming up.

Why would it make any sense to trade away a goaltender who is as coveted as Schneider? Yes he is unproven in a full season capacity, but risk is part of any sport, and Schneider has proven that he can steal games from teams like Boston.

Luongo is an excellent goalie as well, but he has fallen out of favor with the Canucks and Vancouver. He was great in the playoffs of 2011, but also frighteningly inconsistent.

Although Luongo can't bear sole responsibility for the loss in the SCF. The defense was decimated and what was present was woefully overmatched by Boston. The offence was shut down for the majority of the series and was, again, outmuscled. We lacked the muscle and the endurance to beat Boston. That and some of the most one-sided officiating I have ever seen.

Luongo shut them out twice in the series. He wasn't inadequate. The defence was. Pure and simple. They haven't the best track record of clearing the crease if we really take an honest look at it.

That is why I believe acquiring Garrison over resigning Salo will prove to be a smart move. We get younger and stronger on defence.

And we get younger in net as well with the signing of Schneider. Hopefully Gillis will be able to make a defining acquisition for the forward corps that can push over the edge. There will be a player coming back from whatever eventual trade the Canucks will make for Luongo. He is still a great goalie and can drastically change a team's dynamic.

The return won't be Earth shattering, but it doesn't need to be. The Canucks are already a playoff ready team. With the right additions we could find ourselves playing in the Finals once again, however this time the outcome will end with a parade instead of a riot.

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 05 November 2012 - 02:26 PM.

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#739 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Luongo was the second best goaltender on the Canucks last year and a distant second in the playoffs. He "got his game back" last year? He was a middle of the pack goalie in every statistical category, he can take his game to Toronto or elsewhere.
Take your own advice.


Just watch the games man. It's like trying to argue that the sky is blue, or that water is wet. The year before he was letting in bad goals, his style was suffering, he was on his stomach all the time, he just played poorly for long stretches. For those of us that have played sports their whole life it is not hard to judge when a player is on his game or not, despite what any numbers say.

Honestly, when Rome had those goals in his first game back there were people that thought we should trade him for Weber, are you one of those too because he was on pace for about 200 goals last year at one point. If you think that points or stats directly correspond to the exact place a player rates you don't know a thing about hockey or sports.

There are lots of things that go into it like what your teams strengths are, when you get opportunities, how the opposition plays when you do, and completely random events. Some players are very effective regardless of their stats, they just know how to win. That's the type of year Lou had last year, bad start but by the end of the year he and Schnieder were both playing awesome and if you don't see that you're just blind or a hater.

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#740 King of the ES

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

And that is thankfully why you are not the GM. Selling high by trading Schneider would have given us a great return, no doubt. We could have received a marquee player in return. But we would have lost a goaltender who will be one of the elite backstoppers in the league coming up.


Speculation.

Why would it make any sense to trade away a goaltender who is as coveted as Schneider? Yes he is unproven in a full season capacity, but risk is part of any sport, and Schneider has proven that he can steal games from teams like Boston.


It's a simple matter of return. Schneider would've gotten us back more, and he's less proven than Luongo. For a team that likes to call itself a contender, it would seem obvious that the smart move would be to keep the more proven guy, and get another serious boost of help from trading Schneider.

We're now again in the situation where we're hoping that a young, first-time starter can lead us to a Cup. Likely?

#741 The Bookie

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:52 PM

We're now again in the situation where we're hoping that a young, first-time starter can lead us to a Cup. Likely?


That is not the situation we are in. The Canucks already have an abundance of leadership between the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Malhotra. What we need is a solid, calm presence in net who will keep his head under pressure and do his job.

IMO that is more likely with Cory Schneider than Roberto Luongo.

#742 D-Money

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

We're now again in the situation where we're hoping that a young, first-time starter can lead us to a Cup. Likely?


Corey has more playoff wins than Cam Ward or Antti Niemi had before their cup runs!

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#743 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

Maybe King or Smurf could make it easier for us by just listing any goalies, if there are any, that are worse than Luongo.

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#744 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

Well if you actually watched the Canucks play, you'd have realized Lu was amazing down the stretch, starting 29 of the teams last 45 games and in a 2 month span he was 10-1-3 while the Canucks offense was a non-factor. I think Lu is the one that needs to be traded but to dismiss his level of play shows your loyalty and knowledge.
Gotta love Vancouver's brutal bandwagon fanbase.


Starting to think you a bigges king of bs than anyone.
In the last 12 games Lu started he was pulled after 27 minutes after allowing 4 goals on 15 shots against anaheim, pulled after 5 minutes after allowing 3 goals on 7 shots against buffalo, and in 3 starts in succession allowed 5 against phoenix, 4 against montreal and 4 against dallas and allowing 3 and 4 goals in the playoffs against L.A. In march Lu had a gaa of 2.69,,and in 2 regular season starts in april was 2.76 and 2 playoff games of 3.59.
Including playoffs Cory allowed 3 or more in 3 of his last 17 games.
In march Cory had a gaa of 1.46 and was 1.86 in april and was 1.31 in 3 playoff games.

#745 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Spin it however you want, nobody was good, we lost in 5 and it wasn't even close. Ballard had 1 assist in 4 games. Calling him "stellar" is hilarious.


No what's hilarious is how little of the game you actually understand, clearly your just another person who thinks stats are the be all end all.

What you didn't see is how much ice time he got, how little he turned the puck over, how great he was one on one, and how well he played defensively.

not to mention that with how badly we played he was only minus one, whereas Edler our best defensemen was -2 even though we given just as much if not more ice time, and powerplay time, and Ballard was still better.

And really your kind of hypocritical about that stats, in some cases it's the be all end all for your argument (Ballard) & in other's it's nothing (Like when everyone showed you Paajarvi's terrible stats)

So like I said stats aren't the be all end all especially for a guy with no powerplay time, and I suggest you actually watch the games next season.


I can back up that statement with infinite possibilities. It would depend on which teams are not doing good. Whoever is not doing good will obviously want to shed salary - having free cap space allows us the flexibility to pounce on opportunities like that.


I can tell your running out of ways to maintain this argument.

So what I highlighted says (in my words): The other team would want to shed salary (meaning we get Salary) then you say that freeing up cap space would help us, except we dont free up cap space if we trade with a team looking to shed Salary.

See so as I have said this really doesn't make any sense since it doesn't make us any better.

Give me a few examples if you have infinite possibilities and I'll show you exactly why it doesn't make sense.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 06 November 2012 - 12:57 AM.

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#746 Pears

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

Thought I provide a little food for thought with this question: What do you guys think Luongo's value would be if say, he posted numbers last season that were similar to 2010-11?

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#747 smurf47

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

I share his opinon, Lu is a significant upgrade on Dubnyk and people in the hockey world who knows whats going on would probably share that view.

Now I argued with you about this on those pages, and I made some great points, which you didn't counter with any points of your own, in fact you didn't even reply to the last one, I assume because you realized that I was right.

Now can you explain why you think Lu isn't a better option, because from arguing with you before I realized you are very biased against Luongo.

Which right away throws your opinion with your apparent "43 years" of goaltending experience out the window, because it is unfair due to the bias.

You assume way too much and once again it is your opinion that I am biased against Lou. He still is an NHL calibre goaltender, I just don;t put him on the pedestal that some of you do. The fact that I don;t refute your facts is that they are skwed to your beliefs and you are not open to other views.

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

You obviously don't watch the games so why make stupid comments based on something you know nothing about? I myself have felt that Lou has been shaky in the past and downright awful at times but last year he got his game back and was undoubtedly one of the best if not the best player on the team. Get your head our of your arse.

good name for you dog bite....and take your blinders off

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

Actually just watch them play and use your brain. Luongo is obviously the far better option despite what a couple of numbers might tell you. His winning percentage is far higher which should tell you that he wins games, which Dubnyk isn't doing with any consistency. What's next, Wellwood is better than Hernik?

They play for teams at opposite ends of team spectrum dog breath ! Ask yourself...what numbers would Dubnyk post on the Canucks and what numbers would Lou post playing or the botton feeder Oilers. No comparison on the 2 teams at all...

#750 Pears

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

They play for teams at opposite ends of team spectrum dog breath ! Ask yourself...what numbers would Dubnyk post on the Canucks and what numbers would Lou post playing or the botton feeder Oilers. No comparison on the 2 teams at all...

The 2011-12 team was arguably not as good as the 2010-11 team and we still won and we still won another Presidents Trophy. Also due to the fact that Luongo is miles better than Dubnyk (you'd be stupid to argue this). If you put Luongo and a couple solid D men on the Oilers they would be getting into the playoffs/winning Presidents Trophy's too.

And dog breath? That's an insult you came up with? Thats a sad attempt at one smurf...

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 05 November 2012 - 06:31 PM.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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