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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#781 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

Until you can grow facial hair, your opinion means nothing.


I can grow facial hair. Your opinion means nothing.
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#782 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

Give me a few examples if you have infinite possibilities and I'll show you exactly why it doesn't make sense.


Remember when Dany Heatley wanted out of Ottawa? At the time, he was one of the very best scoring forwards in the entire league. He had gotten 180 goals over 4 years in Ottawa, and was only 28 years old at the time of his demand to leave. Surely, Dany Heatley, one of the best forwards in the NHL, a pure scorer with size, just about to enter what should be his prime years, would bring back something remarkable for the Senators, right? Well, guess again.

There was first an accepted offer with the Oilers, who offered Andrew Cogliano (key piece of the deal), Dustin Penner, and Ladislav Smid. Cogliano was intriguing - two 18-goal seasons to start off his NHL career (sound like anyone else? Frolik?). Penner, though, was obviously in there only because of cap constraints by the Oilers - a decent player, but certainly overpaid and not popular in Edmonton at all. Smid was a mediocre 4 - 6 defenceman with a bit of growth potential, but he really hadn't showed much at all since being drafted in the 1st round in '04.

Heatley vetoed this - something Luongo can also do - so Bryan Murray went shopping again.

San Jose called, and offered Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, and a 2nd round pick. Michalek was a 25 year-old who, though decent, had not lived up to his 6th overall selection in 2003. His production had dropped and San Jose was probably starting to lose faith. Cheechoo was another guy who's production had dropped drastically in each of the previous 3 seasons. From 56 goals in '05-'06 all the way down to 12 in '08-'09, when SJ traded him.

So basically, what did Ottawa get for one of the very best scorers - if not the best - in the league, who was 28 years old?

From Edmonton:
  • Cogliano, a 25th overall pick from a few years earlier, who had shown promise in his first two NHL seasons
  • Penner, a moderately productive yet vastly overpaid player that is not popular in Edmonton
  • Smid, a serviceable d-man that probably maxes out as a mid-pairing guy
From San Jose:
  • Michalek, a pretty good player, second-line, still some potential, not as good as expected
  • Cheechoo, a guy who had totally fallen off the rails, a trend that went on to continue
Knowing this, please, explain to me how 33 year-old Roberto Luongo, with 9 years left on his deal, and with a shaky reputation, is somehow going to land us Nail Yakupov, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, or, as you and Gollumpus surmised yesterday, Teddy Purcell + Keith Aulie + TB's 1st.

Thanks.
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#783 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:09 AM

I guess I'll have to repeat myself - as usual where you are concerned - the guy you refer to as "some other d" is Petrovic - he's a big, physical right handed blueliner with a huge shot and a mean streak - the very type of prospect the Canucks could use to add balance to their pool of d prospects.


We hear that description all the time. Yann Sauve was described as that, as was Adam Polasek. Basically anybody taller than 6'2". Nothing more than a crapshoot.

Bjugstad is a center (aren't you the guy who considers Schroeder a bust?) - while Paajarvi is yet another left wing. In case you are as oblivious as you appear to be, the Canucks already have a few guys who are natural left wings on the roster - Daniel, Booth, Burrows, Higgins, and Raymond. Great idea you have there King - let's use the Luongo return to land a 6th roster left winger. DUH. Paajarvi and Frolik would be misfits who'd be lucky to crack the roster.


I'm not the guy that thinks Schroeder's going to be a bust, no.

And I've bolded the key word in your paragraph - "natural". Burrows does OK on the right side, as does Higgins. To big boys, it really doesn't matter much. And if it did become an issue, Mike Gillis is still allowed to make other trades/moves. This is the NHL.

Oh, you have a big problem with the third piece I proposed in that deal, but that only evidences, again, that you don't know much about what you speak. Upshall's career high was 32 points - which he managed in 49 games - he's scored 177 points in 387 career games - or .46 points a game - which translates into a 38 point average over 82 games in his career - which has been riddled with bad luck and injuries. Upshall would be a great guy to take a risk on - he plays a two-way game, is a solid skater, has good hands, no shortage of grit, is a character guy who works very hard, and he actually hits people - hard. Paajarvi threw 40 hits in his 121 game career - Upshall topped that in 26 games last year, coming off an injury. Yeah - I'd be pretty willing to take a chance on a guy who scores, hits, plays hockey in his own end of the ice, adds some much valued grit to the club and is versatile - can and has played a lot of right wing. A healthy Upshall has a much better chance of playing in the top 9 or 6 than your two grossly overvalued misfits (and an unhealthy Upshall does not count against the cap). Florida sheds his salary, the Canucks take back 3.5 while 5.3 goes the other way, and the cap hit is contingent on Upshall's health.
What's your problem with the deal?


He scores? Did you miss the part where I reminded you that he had 2 goals last year?

Michael Frolik, conversely, has 141 points in 304 career games - only 86 less games, despite being 5 years younger - this computes to a PPG of .46, the same as Upshall's. So I'm still failing to understand why Upshall is such a great option, while Frolik is not. Michael Frolik also has 4 goals and 8 points in 11 career playoff games - a sign of a clutch performer (he was very, very good against us in 2011, by the way). Scottie Upshall also has 4 goals in the playoffs - over 26 games. 10 points in 26 games. Yawn.

Talk about Frolik being soft all you want, I saw a guy who was very, very engaged against us in 2011 (I recall him deking Schneider out of game 6, actually), and then he followed that up with 2 goals and 3 points in 4 games against the Coyotes this year. He stepped up, again. And Scottie Upshall's "hitting prowess" ain't scaring anybody. The fact is that you're proposing to acquire a guy who would knowingly consume $3.5M of our cap while being a fixture on the bottom six. That's your definition of a solution?
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#784 D-Money

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

Remember when Dany Heatley wanted out of Ottawa?...


It's a good point. Heatley's value was lessened by it being known that he wanted out. But Lu is pretty much in the same boat.

It turned out well for Ottawa, as Michalek upped his game while Heatley's eroded. But still, at the time, it looked like highway robbery.

Personally, I don't think Canucks can expect an absolute bluechip prospect in return for Lu. It will probably be a good player with a substantial salary (Lupul, Malone, Versteeg, etc.), and a "good" (not outstanding) prospect or 1st/2nd round pick.

As for the MPS discussion, I would put him in the latter category. He's not an absolute sure-thing. So I would expect one other piece in an Oiler deal. In fact, I'd expect a premium for dealing an all-star goalie to a divisional rival.
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#785 Pears

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

Until you can grow facial hair, your opinion means nothing.

I can grow a bigger beard in a week and a half than you probably could in a year.

Guess you have nothing else to say about that downright awful proposal of your's other than weak insults.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#786 Yung Pony

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

Heatley's value was decreased because teams dont want a player who would screw over his team asking for a trade.

Lou hasn't done that. We all know he is a team player.
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#787 elvis15

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:42 AM

Heatley's value was decreased because teams dont want a player who would screw over his team asking for a trade.

Lou hasn't done that. We all know he is a team player.

Valid point. Heatley was forcing a deal where Luongo hasn't forced anything. Luongo has only said he'd accept a trade considering Schneider's rise, not that he won't play in Vancouver ever again.

As far as on ice play and character, Luongo's still seen as a good goalie, and a pretty good guy in the locker room. Heatley was seen as a top winger when his deal went down, but also a bit of a cancer personality-wise.
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#788 smurf47

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

No actually he isn't quicker and better and the only reason we finished first is because of our goaltending, from January and Feburary on we struggled to score and Lu put together great effort after great effort to keep us on top of the pack down the stretch, and in the playoff games he played he was our best player.

He would do fine on there team because our Defense was just as bad at times and we still kept winning, thanks to Lu.

Oh and Smurf! (This reply isn't about your post BTW, I just replied to a random post of yours to get your attention, anyways..)

If you think that Dubnyk is better for Edmonton than Luongo is, then why would they even want him? why would they be in the market for him?

so far..Edmonton wanting Lou is a rumour...unless Gillis has told you different....
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#789 smurf47

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:49 AM

I can grow a bigger beard in a week and a half than you probably could in a year.

Guess you have nothing else to say about that downright awful proposal of your's other than weak insults.

The teeny bopper has spoken !!!
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#790 elvis15

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

so far..Edmonton wanting Lou is a rumour...unless Gillis has told you different....

Kevin Lowe saying his goaltending is an area that could use an upgrade isn't a rumour though. Luongo has at least shown he can be a starter in the NHL, which is why he has concerns over Dubnyk.

Until Dubnyk shows he can be that guy, there will be questions about his abilities and proven starters like Luongo will be rumoured as potential targets. Face facts, for all your arguments to the contrary, it hasn't stopped smarter people than you in the hockey media from at least seeing the potential for this kind of deal.
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#791 Lui's Knob

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

If the rumor of PK Subban for Yakupov swirling around is accurate, if Edmonton is willing to offload Yakupov, why not attempt a 1-1 deal - Yakupov (next Bure) for Luongo? Give us a lot more offensive options and youth...
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#792 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

Valid point. Heatley was forcing a deal where Luongo hasn't forced anything. Luongo has only said he'd accept a trade considering Schneider's rise, not that he won't play in Vancouver ever again.

As far as on ice play and character, Luongo's still seen as a good goalie, and a pretty good guy in the locker room. Heatley was seen as a top winger when his deal went down, but also a bit of a cancer personality-wise.


"Luongo hasn't forced anything" is a bit of a half-truth. May not be as blatant as Heatley's, but he wants out and he's getting traded, so, fundamentally, it's the same thing. Everybody knows that his days as a Canuck are numbered, which directly affects the price that they're willing to pay.

On the "cancer" thing, again, probably not true, because if those rumors were accurate, he would not have been on the 2010 Olympic team. He was seen as one of the very best snipers in the league - at 28 years old - and all they were able to get for him was Michalek and Cheechoo. So a reasonable person should think that we'll get a far less appealing package for Luongo, who's 33, has a pretty bad contract (length, not cap hit), and a shaky reputation. The RNH, Yakupov, Purcell/Aulie/1st deals need to be laid to rest.
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#793 Squeak

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:44 PM

Remember when Dany Heatley wanted out of Ottawa? At the time, he was one of the very best scoring forwards in the entire league. He had gotten 180 goals over 4 years in Ottawa, and was only 28 years old at the time of his demand to leave. Surely, Dany Heatley, one of the best forwards in the NHL, a pure scorer with size, just about to enter what should be his prime years, would bring back something remarkable for the Senators, right? Well, guess again.

There was first an accepted offer with the Oilers, who offered Andrew Cogliano (key piece of the deal), Dustin Penner, and Ladislav Smid. Cogliano was intriguing - two 18-goal seasons to start off his NHL career (sound like anyone else? Frolik?). Penner, though, was obviously in there only because of cap constraints by the Oilers - a decent player, but certainly overpaid and not popular in Edmonton at all. Smid was a mediocre 4 - 6 defenceman with a bit of growth potential, but he really hadn't showed much at all since being drafted in the 1st round in '04.

Heatley vetoed this - something Luongo can also do - so Bryan Murray went shopping again.

San Jose called, and offered Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, and a 2nd round pick. Michalek was a 25 year-old who, though decent, had not lived up to his 6th overall selection in 2003. His production had dropped and San Jose was probably starting to lose faith. Cheechoo was another guy who's production had dropped drastically in each of the previous 3 seasons. From 56 goals in '05-'06 all the way down to 12 in '08-'09, when SJ traded him.

So basically, what did Ottawa get for one of the very best scorers - if not the best - in the league, who was 28 years old?

From Edmonton:

  • Cogliano, a 25th overall pick from a few years earlier, who had shown promise in his first two NHL seasons
  • Penner, a moderately productive yet vastly overpaid player that is not popular in Edmonton
  • Smid, a serviceable d-man that probably maxes out as a mid-pairing guy
From San Jose:
  • Michalek, a pretty good player, second-line, still some potential, not as good as expected
  • Cheechoo, a guy who had totally fallen off the rails, a trend that went on to continue
Knowing this, please, explain to me how 33 year-old Roberto Luongo, with 9 years left on his deal, and with a shaky reputation, is somehow going to land us Nail Yakupov, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, or, as you and Gollumpus surmised yesterday, Teddy Purcell + Keith Aulie + TB's 1st.

Thanks.


You were expecting more out Michalek?

More then 35 goals and 60 points?

I'm sorry - but in hindsight - Ottawa got a better deal with Michalek then they would've with Smid/Cogliano/Penner. As they avoided Penners contract, and Cogliano didn't work out. Smid is a replaceable 4-6 D that Ottawa no longer needs and could be acquired through FA.
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#794 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

You were expecting more out Michalek?

More then 35 goals and 60 points?

I'm sorry - but in hindsight - Ottawa got a better deal with Michalek then they would've with Smid/Cogliano/Penner.


You're missing the point. He didn't get 35 goals until this past season. At the time of the trade, he was a prospect who had had 4 decent-to-good seasons in San Jose, but his production had trailed off since having highs in goals and points in his sophomore year. I'm sure it didn't take them long to accept the trade with Ottawa - that's my point.

Yet people are expecting Nail Yakupov out of Roberto Luongo.
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#795 elvis15

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

"Luongo hasn't forced anything" is a bit of a half-truth. May not be as blatant as Heatley's, but he wants out and he's getting traded, so, fundamentally, it's the same thing. Everybody knows that his days as a Canuck are numbered, which directly affects the price that they're willing to pay.

On the "cancer" thing, again, probably not true, because if those rumors were accurate, he would not have been on the 2010 Olympic team. He was seen as one of the very best snipers in the league - at 28 years old - and all they were able to get for him was Michalek and Cheechoo. So a reasonable person should think that we'll get a far less appealing package for Luongo, who's 33, has a pretty bad contract (length, not cap hit), and a shaky reputation. The RNH, Yakupov, Purcell/Aulie/1st deals need to be laid to rest.

So, Luongo not forcing a deal ("I would accept a trade" is not the same as "you must trade me") would also have a lesser effect on lowering the return he could get, would it not?

And if Heatley (who was clearly on a decline in his last year with San Jose looking at criteria you've mentioned in the past) can be then traded a second time after rumours of not being a good fit with his teammates for someone like Havlat, then I think a reasonable return isn't out of the question.

Edited by elvis15, 06 November 2012 - 01:10 PM.

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#796 smurf47

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

Kevin Lowe saying his goaltending is an area that could use an upgrade isn't a rumour though. Luongo has at least shown he can be a starter in the NHL, which is why he has concerns over Dubnyk.

Until Dubnyk shows he can be that guy, there will be questions about his abilities and proven starters like Luongo will be rumoured as potential targets. Face facts, for all your arguments to the contrary, it hasn't stopped smarter people than you in the hockey media from at least seeing the potential for this kind of deal.

You are assuming they are smarter than me and still no confirmation that Luongo is in their sights !! Lowe saying an upgrade in goal could mean a better backup to share the load...everyone looks at the scenerios to suit their own views. I still think a Luongo deal is done in principal, pending the signing of a new CBA...and I'd be surprised if it was Edmonton.
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#797 sampy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

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#798 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:04 PM

So, Luongo not forcing a deal ("I would accept a trade" is not the same as "you must trade me") would also have a lesser effect on lowering the return he could get, would it not?


It's just semantics. He is getting traded. Vancouver will not be paying their backup goaltender $5.3M for very long. That's why the effect is unchanged - the end result is that Roberto Luongo will be somewhere else.

And if Heatley (who was clearly on a decline in his last year with San Jose looking at criteria you've mentioned in the past) can be then traded a second time after rumours of not being a good fit with his teammates for someone like Havlat, then I think a reasonable return isn't out of the question.


That was a hockey trade. Big difference. This is about dumping Luongo, no matter how badly you guys don't want to think that it is.
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#799 elvis15

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

You are assuming they are smarter than me and still no confirmation that Luongo is in their sights !! Lowe saying an upgrade in goal could mean a better backup to share the load...everyone looks at the scenerios to suit their own views. I still think a Luongo deal is done in principal, pending the signing of a new CBA...and I'd be surprised if it was Edmonton.

Not when he specifically calls out both Dubnyk and Khabi in his statement. If he called out just Khabi, I could see it, but he's basically said he doesn't know if Dubnyk's ready for the job yet. Luongo is a starter on many teams no matter how often you dispute it, and he would help the Oilers for sure.

I've said often and regularly I don't think he goes to Edmonton. I just don't see a deal of that size happening between division rivals.

I'd also hesitate to say a deal is done in principle since I think there might be a few more details to work out depending on what's in the next CBA. The CBA might even prompt one side to take and offer off the table for Luongo, but it depends on who it is and what was offered.

One thing I do know, there's no point continuing a debate on this with you considering your other replies that are plainly juvenile Well, that and when you lead off your posts saying people are wrong to assume someone who runs and NHL team is smarter than a poster on an internet forum named 'smurf47' you instead tend to lead people to believe they were right to do so.
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#800 elvis15

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

It's just semantics. He is getting traded. Vancouver will not be paying their backup goaltender $5.3M for very long. That's why the effect is unchanged - the end result is that Roberto Luongo will be somewhere else.



That was a hockey trade. Big difference. This is about dumping Luongo, no matter how badly you guys don't want to think that it is.

We've been back and forth before, and I know you don't care to see it anyone else's way, so I'll leave it at this: do you feel I hate you as a poster or just don't like you? That's some semantics you can figure out and see if there's any possible difference in the level of the meanings.
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#801 King of the ES

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:34 PM

Not when he specifically calls out both Dubnyk and Khabi in his statement. If he called out just Khabi, I could see it, but he's basically said he doesn't know if Dubnyk's ready for the job yet. Luongo is a starter on many teams no matter how often you dispute it, and he would help the Oilers for sure.


But that's not a factually incorrect statement, right?

Dubnyk's younger than Schneider and he's only played 101 NHL games. It's fair and reasonable to say that he's unproven - just like it is with Schneider. However, and also like with Schneider (though to a lesser extent, for sure), what he's shown in his 101 games is IMO promising enough to at least give him a further look/chance. Edmonton is on an ascent, but they're probably not going to be 1st in the West as early as next year. I would think that they'd have enough time to at least allow Dubnyk to prove whether he'll be a legitimate #1 guy or not, over the course of the next season or two.

Edited by King of the ES, 06 November 2012 - 03:34 PM.

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#802 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

so far..Edmonton wanting Lou is a rumour...unless Gillis has told you different....


I'm not the one who thinks he should go there, infact I don't think that there is even a possibility, that's why I asked you why they would even want him.

But instead of answering my question you just changed your position on the argument, and really it doesn't effect me at all.

So I'm not sure what your point is.
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#803 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

Remember when Dany Heatley wanted out of Ottawa? At the time, he was one of the very best scoring forwards in the entire league. He had gotten 180 goals over 4 years in Ottawa, and was only 28 years old at the time of his demand to leave. Surely, Dany Heatley, one of the best forwards in the NHL, a pure scorer with size, just about to enter what should be his prime years, would bring back something remarkable for the Senators, right? Well, guess again.

There was first an accepted offer with the Oilers, who offered Andrew Cogliano (key piece of the deal), Dustin Penner, and Ladislav Smid. Cogliano was intriguing - two 18-goal seasons to start off his NHL career (sound like anyone else? Frolik?). Penner, though, was obviously in there only because of cap constraints by the Oilers - a decent player, but certainly overpaid and not popular in Edmonton at all. Smid was a mediocre 4 - 6 defenceman with a bit of growth potential, but he really hadn't showed much at all since being drafted in the 1st round in '04.

Heatley vetoed this - something Luongo can also do - so Bryan Murray went shopping again.

San Jose called, and offered Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, and a 2nd round pick. Michalek was a 25 year-old who, though decent, had not lived up to his 6th overall selection in 2003. His production had dropped and San Jose was probably starting to lose faith. Cheechoo was another guy who's production had dropped drastically in each of the previous 3 seasons. From 56 goals in '05-'06 all the way down to 12 in '08-'09, when SJ traded him.

So basically, what did Ottawa get for one of the very best scorers - if not the best - in the league, who was 28 years old?

From Edmonton:

  • Cogliano, a 25th overall pick from a few years earlier, who had shown promise in his first two NHL seasons
  • Penner, a moderately productive yet vastly overpaid player that is not popular in Edmonton
  • Smid, a serviceable d-man that probably maxes out as a mid-pairing guy
From San Jose:
  • Michalek, a pretty good player, second-line, still some potential, not as good as expected
  • Cheechoo, a guy who had totally fallen off the rails, a trend that went on to continue


You are seriously undervaluing those players.

Edmonton deal:

- Cogliano as you said was an intriguing piece at the time, he was a young player, played a strong two way game with great speed, had a two decent offensive season's and with the upside he had, it seemed like he was ready to breakout and score 20+ anyseason, similar to maybe Columbus getting Anisimov now, except with more two way ability and speed. to put it into perspective for you now.

- Smid, as you said a mid pairing guy, but the upside looked high, he was drafted 9th overall not that many years earlier, he was a mid pairing guy at the time (and unfortunalty still is) but had a high potential he was just never able to fulfill. At the time, a very very intriguing piece.

- Penner, (this is where you are most wrong) he was a true top 6 forward, a huge body who could put up 20+ goals and had done it in back to back season's not to mention he was just coming into his prime, and had been a major contributor to playoff success.

So that's: A top 6 forward who brings rare qualities (the size), a 3rd line center with upside and rare qualites (skating ability), and about a 4th-6th dman who hadn't quite broken out, but had big upside.

When you think about it and look back on where the Senator's were as a franchise at the time, it didn't seem as bad as it does now.


San Jose:

- Cheecho, you say he had fallen off the rails, but the thing you again you are equating what it looks like now with what it looked like then and basing you argument off that.

He was traded in September 2009.

The year previous (08-09) he had 29 points in an injury shortened season (66 games), the year before that (07-08) he had 23 goals in an injury shortened season (69 games), then the two preivous years he had outstanding season's, (37 Goals and 69 points in 06-07, and then his magical 56 goal, 93 point season in 05-06).

So really he just seemed like he had hit a speed bump, he wasn't the 50 goal scorer he ocne was, maybe not even the 35+ goal scorer he once was, but he seemed like he could still be a legite top 6 forward, and that he has just been hampered by injuries, yes it was a risk I agree, but it didn't look nearly as bad as it does now.


- Michalek, (this is where you are really wrong on this deal) He had had 3 straight 20+ goal, 55+point season's in a row before the trade. including a career high 26 goal, 66 point season in 06-07.

So the stats back-up that he was an above average 2nd liner, then you look at the skillest, he's big (6'2 225), he was young 23 or 24 I believe, then there was that upside. Which ultimatly he achevied last year when he became a star in Ottawa. So your definetly underrating him, especially since he has lived up to his potential and has become just as good if not better than Heatley is now, with a much better Contract.

As I said, you have to take everything into consideration, you didn't you just looked at the way those players look today and say, wow they were going to make a terrible deal, when at the time it looked much better.

I know it is a clique but hindsight is 20-20.


Knowing this, please, explain to me how 33 year-old Roberto Luongo, with 9 years left on his deal, and with a shaky reputation, is somehow going to land us Nail Yakupov, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, or, as you and Gollumpus surmised yesterday, Teddy Purcell + Keith Aulie + TB's 1st.

Thanks.


Please find where I said he would get us this? Please quote it? So you can stop making up garabage to put into your argument.

And Also, I never said that he would get us that deal from Tampa, what I said was that they probably wouldn't do it, but atleast there is a better base there to a deal, unlike yours which is a complete fleecing of us.


So can you please stop making up things that I never said, to back-up your arugment which really just gains more holes everytime I reply, not to mention all the other points I have made in both threads that you haven't further addressed because you realized I was right.
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#804 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

First off, before you read, I wanna say as much as I agree with Oldnews, I'm not a fan of bringing Upshall here, so I'm not gunna go into the whole Frolik vs Upshall debate, since it's not my view.

anyways, on with the post

We hear that description all the time. Yann Sauve was described as that, as was Adam Polasek. Basically anybody taller than 6'2". Nothing more than a crapshoot.


It seems you don't know anything about Petrovic so why argue?

He much greater upside and current ability than both Sauve and Polasek, he is a very good prospect, with great size, good skating abilty and a very strong two-way game, that projects him being a top 4 defensemen, if we get him in the deal I will be very pleased.

You should look into him a little bit more, before brushing him off as nothing.


Talk about Frolik being soft all you want, I saw a guy who was very, very engaged against us in 2011 (I recall him deking Schneider out of game 6, actually)


And this doesn't make him soft? He's just another soft 3rd line player, Raymond suits that to a T, and we don't need another 3rd liner anyways we have ton of players in our organization who are the exact same thing, it doesn't fill a need, it just adds depth where we are already loaded.
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#805 WiDeN

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

King, I never saw you answer the question on page 1: "What do you LIKE about the Canucks?"
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#806 sampy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:40 PM

Vancouver:
Rielly
Toronto:
Lu

Vancouver:
Green
Goalie (Holtby or Neuvirth)

Washington:
Lu
Sauve
2nd

Thoughts?

Canucks need a true offensive dman. Rielly is a local boy that has some serious talent.
Green's stock is at an all time low after back to back poor seasons, may be a chance. Vancouver takes back whichever goalie they don't want.

Edited by sampy, 06 November 2012 - 08:44 PM.

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#807 Pears

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

Vancouver:
Rielly

Toronto:
Lu

Thoughts?

Canucks need a true offensive dman. This local boy has some serious talent.

If MG and Burke wanted to do this trade it would've been done at the draft. Don't see why they would pull it off now.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#808 Dogbyte

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

Vancouver:
Rielly

Toronto:
Lu

Thoughts?

Canucks need a true offensive dman. This local boy has some serious talent.

You'd have to sweeten that quite a bit I think.
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#809 sampy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

If MG and Burke wanted to do this trade it would've been done at the draft. Don't see why they would pull it off now.

Good point. Maybe Gillis' asking price has come down. Maybe there is a possibility of a package getting JVR too.
Thoughts on Green?
With stock being low and the emergence of Carlson and Alzner, maybe?
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#810 Pears

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

Good point. Maybe Gillis' asking price has come down. Maybe there is a possibility of a package getting JVR too.
Thoughts on Green?
With stock being low and the emergence of Carlson and Alzner, maybe?

Green would be nice. Maybe Luongo, Raymond and a 2nd for Green and Johansson? Then maybe Package Edler, Booth, Johansson, Ballard for Weber

Hamhuis - Weber
Green - Bieksa
Tanev - Garrison
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it





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