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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#901 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

The only year that Schneider has had as a starter as a professional is 09/10. His other years he has been a 1a or a backup.

In 09/10, Schneider looked just as calm and collected as we are used to seeing him playing in the NHL. However, he was prone to bad games where it looked like he couldn't stop the easiest shots. He had 5 games where his GAA was 6 or higher (Luongo had 4 of these games last year). He had 2 entire months where is GAA was 3 or higher (luongo's GAA went over 3 in October). All of his other months were closer to a GAA of 2.

For everyone saying that Schneider is consistent, we have no idea how he will respond to starter minutes in the NHL. If his previous starter minutes are taken into consideration, we may be having the same "inconsistency" conversations with him as well.


I agree, great points. +1

I am a big fan of Schneids, and i do think he will do well when he becomes the starter.

But Anyone who thinks he won't have off games just like Lu (or any other goalie) has occasionally has no clue what there talking about, and I hope we don't turn our relationship with Cory into the relationship we now have with Roberto.
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#902 smurf47

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

The only year that Schneider has had as a starter as a professional is 09/10. His other years he has been a 1a or a backup.

In 09/10, Schneider looked just as calm and collected as we are used to seeing him playing in the NHL. However, he was prone to bad games where it looked like he couldn't stop the easiest shots. He had 5 games where his GAA was 6 or higher (Luongo had 4 of these games last year). He had 2 entire months where is GAA was 3 or higher (luongo's GAA went over 3 in October). All of his other months were closer to a GAA of 2.

For everyone saying that Schneider is consistent, we have no idea how he will respond to starter minutes in the NHL. If his previous starter minutes are taken into consideration, we may be having the same "inconsistency" conversations with him as well.

And...his stats last season were FAR better than the previous season..why not post those...more current and indicative of his level of improvement. The more games Schneids gets to play, the better he will get to know the opposing players and their tendencies, get more comfortable playing with the Canucks with better communication with his D men. All things that will help him improve.
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#903 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

And...his stats last season were FAR better than the previous season..why not post those...more current and indicative of his level of improvement. The more games Schneids gets to play, the better he will get to know the opposing players and their tendencies, get more comfortable playing with the Canucks with better communication with his D men. All things that will help him improve.


The more games Schneider plays, the more opposing players will get to know his tendencies and then... Well. Fans will run him out of town and praise Lack.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 12:45 AM.

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#904 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

Of course, but that's not what he did. He resorted to the "you're not a real fan!" line.


That's what you get when your'e not in love with every player or agree with every decision management makes.
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#905 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

Schneider is the cheaper, younger, less mentally and less physically damaged option.
- He's better with the media
- He doesn't get rattled by bad goals


Not only that, but he doesn't allow many of those to begin with.
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#906 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

Oh we will certainly have this conversation at some time in the future. Combine rabbid fans, unforgiving media and time, and one has the recipe of a goaltender graveyard rebirth.

If this is about legacy and building a team on the Detroit blueprint, then Luongo retires a Canucks and Schneider gets traded for much needed help in scoring via either forward or defense.

Through time, every goaltender has the priviledge of having critics descend upon them with frustration and blame. Nothing is abnormal in Luongo's world. Fans in such a microscope market are frustrated and would surely welcome a Cup delivered by Luongo or Schneider. From my perspetive, Luongo is much closer to doing that than Schneider. There is a great difference between playing your second Stanley Cup Finals and trying to get there for the first time. The Canucks are lucky they have a goaltender that has gone through a Stanley Cup Finals already.


You do realize that Luongo is prone to having bad games in the playoffs more than he ever does in the regular season, right?
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#907 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:32 AM

I agree, great points. +1

I am a big fan of Schneids, and i do think he will do well when he becomes the starter.

But Anyone who thinks he won't have off games just like Lu (or any other goalie) has occasionally has no clue what there talking about, and I hope we don't turn our relationship with Cory into the relationship we now have with Roberto.


Nobody really gets on Luongo's case when he has a bad regular season game here and there, it's the pattern he developed of saving some of the worst games of his career for the playoffs that turns people against him.
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#908 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

Considering the average attention span of a human being is 30 seconds,

Considering States have no plan beyond nine months,

Considering a democratic term is four years,

Running fifteen years with the same goaltender can be asking a lot from fans...

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 11:23 AM.

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#909 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:37 AM

The more games Schneider plays, the more opposing players will get to know his tendencies and then... Well. Fans will run him out of town and praise Lack.

101 is a first year university course,appropriate for a non goalie like you ! The beauty of Schneids is that he has great fundamentals, great technique and few, if any, obvious flaws(other than stick handling). Shooters have limited options in given offensive situations, and good goalies, can, by being proactive, rather than reactive(Lou) dictate to a large degree, what options they will give to the shooter. Mike Smith and Schneids play a very similar style and are very effective and successful. Schneids faces the shooters, is very patient. and will be a star in the NHL.
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#910 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

Considering the average attention span of a human being is 30 seconds,

Considering States have no plan beyond nine months,

Considering a democratic term is four years,

Running fifteen years with the same goaltender can be asking a lot from fans...

too much valium???
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#911 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

Smurf47,

Could you please give a detailed, elaborate work comparing Luongo's and Schneider's goaltending, including exact terminology for the various points you will be making; terminology one would find employed by goaltending coaches at the Pro level.

I feel you are the best positioned to do so. Be a teacher of the craft of goaltending so as to make me understand exactly what you see in Schneider and Luongo; qualities and flaws in their play, technique and fundamentals.

Take the time to write such a detailed work. Two hours should be minimum, four ought to be plenty. I would like to see a fully detailed and elaborate work; not a rush job. Take your time to write it and, if you did indeed go to university, you will know exactly what I would like to see as a format.

1st and 2nd sources reference only, though do not be afraid to research your points as thoroughly as possible. As per University guidelines, Wikipedia does not count as reference. Direct quotes from legitimate sources to support your work is encouraged.

I'm very curious to know more about goaltending. I find I could use an update and a good read. That said, try not to under-estimate your readers; we all walk different paths.

Good luck and I await your reply.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 12:10 PM.

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#912 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

Nobody really gets on Luongo's case when he has a bad regular season game here and there, it's the pattern he developed of saving some of the worst games of his career for the playoffs that turns people against him.


Yes actually they do. And last year it was worse than ever.

Just listen to the team 1040 after Luongo has a weak game.
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#913 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

Yes actually they do. And last year it was worse than ever.

Just listen to the team 1040 after Luongo has a weak game.


I stopped listening to 1040 because of that very fact. Perfect example of local media feeding fans local media. Not pleasant in the least.
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#914 WiDeN

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

Smurf47,

Could you please give a detailed, elaborate work comparing Luongo's and Schneider's goaltending, including exact terminology for the various points you will be making; terminology one would find employed by goaltending coaches at the Pro level.

I feel you are the best positioned to do so. Be a teacher of the craft of goaltending so as to make me understand exactly what you see in Schneider and Luongo; qualities and flaws in their play, technique and fundamentals.

Take the time to write such a detailed work. Two hours should be minimum, four ought to be plenty. I would like to see a fully detailed and elaborate work; not a rush job. Take your time to write it and, if you did indeed go to university, you will know exactly what I would like to see as a format.

1st and 2nd sources reference only, though do not be afraid to research your points as thoroughly as possible. As per University guidelines, Wikipedia does not count as reference. Direct quotes from legitimate sources to support your work is encouraged.

I'm very curious to know more about goaltending. I find I could use an update and a good read. That said, try not to under-estimate your readers; we all walk different paths.

Good luck and I await your reply.

That's a little demanding don't you think?
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#915 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

That's a little demanding don't you think?

That's a little demanding don't you think?

It wouldn;t matter what I wrote...he'd disagree anyway. Lots of detractors here who have never strapped on the pads but know WAY more than those of us who have. He can get his education elsewhere !
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#916 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

That's a little demanding don't you think?


I was legitimately interested in seeing his elaborate work on such matters as described above, as well as learning what I am missing in terms of assessing goaltenders.

How unfortunate.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 03:10 PM.

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#917 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

I was legitimately interested in seeing his elaborate work on such matters as described above, as well as learning what I am missing in terms of assessing goaltenders.

How unfortunate.

I read your post of Nov 8th, 2:52pm which told me all I needed to know about what you don;t know about BACKUP goaltenders. Trying to reeducate you would take longer than I have years to live! But keep posting, and dig your hole deeper !
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#918 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

I read your post of Nov 8th, 2:52pm which told me all I needed to know about what you don;t know about BACKUP goaltenders. Trying to reeducate you would take longer than I have years to live! But keep posting, and dig your hole deeper !


I understand you are defensive regarding your opinion and stance on this site, especially in this thread. If I understand correctly, it has not been easy for you to defend your position concerning goaltending.

Conversely, I don't think there is a need to be aggressive on the matter. I have an excellent education which serves me rather well in life; I do not think re-education is what I seek. That said, I offered you in a calmly manner, a way to assert yourself on this site through what you claim you know best. If you do know best, then I wanted to know what you know, see and feel when it comes to the minute details I might be missing.

This is a legitimate enquiry. The offer is open-ended.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 03:35 PM.

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#919 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

I understand you are defensive regarding your opinion and stance on this site, especially in this thread. If I understand correctly, it has not been easy for you to defend your position concerning goaltending.

Conversely, I don't think there is a need to be aggressive on the matter. I have an excellent education which serves me rather well in life; I do not think re-education is what I seek. That said, I offered you in a calmly manner, a way to assert yourself on this site through what you claim you know best. If you do know best, then I wanted to know what you know, see and feel when it comes to the minute details I might be missing.

This is a legitimate enquiry. The offer is open-ended.

Ever played between the pipes? Any schooling re goaltending? If not, then to make the assumptions you made on Nov 8th, were off the mark and based on opinion only, and not fact. An educated person would not be so inclined.
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#920 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Ever played between the pipes? Any schooling re goaltending? If not, then to make the assumptions you made on Nov 8th, were off the mark and based on opinion only, and not fact. An educated person would not be so inclined.


If you put the same energy defending your stance instead of defending yourself this thread would barely be a page.

Elaborate on the craft of goaltending is all I ask.


Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 04:46 PM.

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#921 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

If you put the same energy defending your stance instead of defending yourself this thread would barely be a page.

Elaborate on the craft of goaltending is all I ask.

And did you answer my questions? Did you defend your opinions? This is a thread about Lou., not about me teaching you goaltending. You really want to learn, go to a reputable goalie school. You just might be surprised at whats entailed. I'm not defending my position, 43 years of involvement, gives me confidence enough to state what I know.
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#922 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

And did you answer my questions? Did you defend your opinions? This is a thread about Lou., not about me teaching you goaltending. You really want to learn, go to a reputable goalie school. You just might be surprised at whats entailed. I'm not defending my position, 43 years of involvement, gives me confidence enough to state what I know.


It wouldn;t matter what I wrote...he'd disagree anyway. Lots of detractors here who have never strapped on the pads but know WAY more than those of us who have. He can get his education elsewhere !


Smurf47,

You have disappointed me greatly. There, was the chance to legitimize yourself as a connaisseur of the craft. You have failed not only to write the work, you have also failed to respond adequately to my enquiry, as well as proving to me your having been in University.

As far as I am concerned, you lose face, as well as credibility. Of course, you very well know that in University, most professors are tolerant of they who try and subsequently give extensions from time to time. You can always, when you feel inspired, to write this body of work at your leisure so as to let people know you're knowledgeable in the matter discussed.

Unfortunately, such claims as you make concerning personal accomplishments in goaltending without any sources backing up your claim does not merit recognition in any way.

Considering you have failed at delivering said work,

Considering you have proven nothing regarding your claim,

Considering you have dismissed any chance at a legitimate challenge,

I can only regard you as a young fan (not necessarily in age) and therefore, though I will await an elaborate response to my challenge, I will not be responding to your post and/or communicating with you again on this board until you make a mature effort to prove me otherwise.

I'm not one to engage in a piss match. Good luck and farewell.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 05:27 PM.

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#923 smurf47

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

Smurf47,

You have disappointed me greatly. There, was the chance to legitimize yourself as a connaisseur of the craft. You have failed not only to write the work, you have also failed to respond adequately to my enquiry, as well as proving to me your having been in University.

As far as I am concerned, you lose face, as well as credibility. Of course, you very well know that in University, most professors are tolerant of they who try and subsequently give extensions from time to time. You can always, when you feel inspired, to write this body of work at your leisure so as to let people know you're knowledgeable in the matter discussed.

Unfortunately, such claims as you make concerning personal accomplishments in goaltending without any sources backing up your claim does not merit recognition in any way.

Considering you have failed at delivering said work,

Considering you have proven nothing regarding your claim,

Considering you have dismissed any chance at a legitimate challenge,

I can only regard you as a young fan (not necessarily in age) and therefore, though I will await an elaborate response to my challenge, I will not be responding to your post and/or communicating with you again on this board until you make a mature effort to prove me otherwise.

I'm not one to engage in a piss match. Good luck and farewell.

Smurf47,

You have disappointed me greatly. There, was the chance to legitimize yourself as a connaisseur of the craft. You have failed not only to write the work, you have also failed to respond adequately to my enquiry, as well as proving to me your having been in University.

As far as I am concerned, you lose face, as well as credibility. Of course, you very well know that in University, most professors are tolerant of they who try and subsequently give extensions from time to time. You can always, when you feel inspired, to write this body of work at your leisure so as to let people know you're knowledgeable in the matter discussed.

Unfortunately, such claims as you make concerning personal accomplishments in goaltending without any sources backing up your claim does not merit recognition in any way.

Considering you have failed at delivering said work,

Considering you have proven nothing regarding your claim,

Considering you have dismissed any chance at a legitimate challenge,

I can only regard you as a young fan (not necessarily in age) and therefore, though I will await an elaborate response to my challenge, I will not be responding to your post and/or communicating with you again on this board until you make a mature effort to prove me otherwise.

I'm not one to engage in a piss match. Good luck and farewell.

n Thank You There is a God phew !!!
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#924 TmanVan

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

Smurf47,

You have disappointed me greatly. There, was the chance to legitimize yourself as a connaisseur of the craft. You have failed not only to write the work, you have also failed to respond adequately to my enquiry, as well as proving to me your having been in University.

As far as I am concerned, you lose face, as well as credibility. Of course, you very well know that in University, most professors are tolerant of they who try and subsequently give extensions from time to time. You can always, when you feel inspired, to write this body of work at your leisure so as to let people know you're knowledgeable in the matter discussed.

Unfortunately, such claims as you make concerning personal accomplishments in goaltending without any sources backing up your claim does not merit recognition in any way.

Considering you have failed at delivering said work,

Considering you have proven nothing regarding your claim,

Considering you have dismissed any chance at a legitimate challenge,

I can only regard you as a young fan (not necessarily in age) and therefore, though I will await an elaborate response to my challenge, I will not be responding to your post and/or communicating with you again on this board until you make a mature effort to prove me otherwise.

I'm not one to engage in a piss match. Good luck and farewell.


You seem like the type of guy who would walk in a bar in a suit and tie and start running your mouth to regular joe's and look down on them like scum because they don't have a degree, or wear clothes as nice as you.

Its funny how quick that heir apparent attitude can change after a straight right hand to the jaw. :emot-parrot:
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#925 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

You seem like the type of guy who would walk in a bar in a suit and tie and start running your mouth to regular joe's and look down on them like scum because they don't have a degree, or wear clothes as nice as you.

Its funny how quick that heir apparent attitude can change after a straight right hand to the jaw. :emot-parrot:


I read Luongo 1, Luongo 2, and Luongo 3 ad they developped. I'm done arguing with that guy. Nothing personal. Round and round without substance. Like chasing your own tail. No hard feelings. Just plain waste of time.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 10 November 2012 - 08:36 PM.

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#926 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

Yes actually they do. And last year it was worse than ever.

Just listen to the team 1040 after Luongo has a weak game.


Maybe your'e right but that's because the damage was already done. Last year it was worse than ever because we'd just came off losing the Stanley Cup in 7 games with Luongo having some of his worst ever games.
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#927 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

Maybe your'e right but that's because the damage was already done. Last year it was worse than ever because we'd just came off losing the Stanley Cup in 7 games with Luongo having some of his worst ever games.


Post SCF. They got a shortened break and fell short. Same as Detroit, New Jersey, Anaheim, and most other franchises the year after they win the Stanley Cup. Watch this year (post lockout). I believe we'll see unreal hockey from everyone.
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#928 oldnews

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:44 PM



can't help but post this again

Phaneuf - not going to improve the Canucks blueline - don't care if he has a big shot and throws the odd big hit - he's a highlight reel hockey player who has as many brain cramps as any veteran in the NHL - not to mention that he's yet another left handed / left side guy (who isn't even particularly strong on his strong side imo). Over-rated - very excessive cap hit - only a captain in Lalaleafsland where leadership qualities are as scarce as playoff berths - a part of the reason (like the rest of the Leafs inconsistent, porous blueline) that the Leafs young goaltenders struggle so much - they are young goaltenders that can't really count on the guys in front of them - the inconsistency is entirely predictable given the team in front of them - and it starts from their captain down.
Toronto needs Luongo because they need a guy who can stick his finger in the dyke.
I highly doubt that Gillis would consider taking Phaneuf in return - just a bad fit.
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#929 Riviera82

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:51 PM

Post SCF. They got a shortened break and fell short. Same as Detroit, New Jersey, Anaheim, and most other franchises the year after they win the Stanley Cup. Watch this year (post lockout). I believe we'll see unreal hockey from everyone.


My point was that maybe some people did give Luongo a hard time after a weak regular season game but that was because the sting of losing the SC was still very fresh. 3 straight playoffs having noticeably poor performances from your team's highest paid player who plays the most important role on the team can turn even the most die-hard fans against that player.
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#930 RunningWild

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:03 PM

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=645327


Of course, lockout or no lockout, fans want to know about your unique goaltending situation. How do you view what is in front of you -- is it an opportunity for the organization or strictly business?


"Well, I look at it in multiple ways. I really like Roberto [Luongo]. I like him as a person. I like him as a goaltender. He's a phenomenal guy, a phenomenally hard-working player, zero maintenance. He is the kind of guy that any team would like to have. If we're going to make a transaction, do anything, it's going to be done so we can improve our team in other ways.

"When you take an All-Star player off your team, you have to do that with a lot of faith that you're improving in different areas. And, you know, I don't see that big of an issue if Roberto is with us. I don't see that as an issue at all. I think he's a true professional and I know he and Cory [Schneider] have a great relationship. You know, that may end up being the plan depending on when we get started. I think they would both be fine with it. We're going to do what is best for our hockey team. We're going to make sure we're in the best position to win the Stanley Cup and that may be with both goaltenders."


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