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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#931 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

It is in fact with two bonafide goaltenders the Canucks have the best chance to winning the Cup.

Keep them both fresh throughout the season and playoffs.
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#932 sampy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:43 PM

No thanks to Phaneuf, his brain gaffs, his brutal attitude and terrible cap hit.
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#933 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

While both Chara (1) and Weber (2) are not available, Phaneuf is a league wide top three defenseman.
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#934 The Bookie

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:46 AM

Whoa, hold up, did you just say Dion Phaneuf is the 3rd best D in the entire league?
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#935 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:51 AM

While both Chara (1) and Weber (2) are not available, Phaneuf is a league wide top three defenseman.


top 3 in the NHL or top 3 as in he's a "top3"? That makes sense. He sure isn't a top 2 dman for us. Too unstable and sloppy defensively.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#936 Pears

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:00 AM

While both Chara (1) and Weber (2) are not available, Phaneuf is a league wide top three defenseman.

Uhh, no. I like Phaneuf but I can name a few guys that are much better than Phaneuf:

(this is in no general order)

Karlsson
Doughty
Keith
Seabrook
Suter
McDonagh
Letang
Hamhuis
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#937 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:41 AM

top 3 in the NHL or top 3 as in he's a "top3"? That makes sense. He sure isn't a top 2 dman for us. Too unstable and sloppy defensively.


Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.
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#938 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.


Yep. Emotion clouds reason. Phaneuf would be a 1D on our team.

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
2nd

VAN
Phaneuf
Kessel

Phaneuf - Edler
Hamhuis - Bieksa

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 11 November 2012 - 03:18 PM.

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#939 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

The only problem with that ^ is that once again, you have a 4 million dollar man playing on your third pairing. Not only that, but even after (theoretically) losing Ballard's salary, you're actually spending more on your defense.

I'm not as down on Phaneuf or MPS as are a lot of people on this board, but I think the Canucks have to look more at areas of need. They don't need another left-shooting defender challenging the top 4 and they don't need another left winger.

This is why myself and oldnews have been touting the Bjugstad-Petrovic deal since day one. It doesn't add to the Cap and it addresses areas of need. (a center with size and a physical right-handed D-Man) It's isn't a case of whether they are beeter or worse prospects that others mentioned, it's just that they fit better into the team's structure.

Now, it may be true that Tallon won't budge on Bjugstad, but I'm not convinced. Just as many of Gillis' detractors are claiming that he's playing it close to the vest, the same could easily be true of Tallon. For that matter, I still believe that Yzerman could be doing the same thing.

I had stayed away from this thread for quite awhile, because I thought the arguments on both sides had become cyclical, but I thought this was a pertinent point.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#940 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:31 PM

Phaneuf would deff be a # 1 or 2 on this team, don't forget he plays for T.O.

I don't want him because of the cap hit though, unless we shipped Ballard out.

Hamhuis-Phaneuf
Edler-Garrison
Tanev-Bieksa

I don't know how the pairings would work out.
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#941 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.


I don't think Phaneuf would be, He's great don't get me wrong, I love him but he's like Bieksa, great skillset but inconsistent. he makes alot of mistakes, he's not the 20 goal scorer he once was in Calgary. And he definitely isn't one of the top 5 in the league, maybe 10 but Edler is almost just as good.

To me in crunch time the defensemen I would use over anyone else still on our team would be Hamhuis, far and away our most reliable.

I would make the pairings like this if we got him.

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Phanuef
Ballard - Tanev

Either of Hammer-Juice of Eddie-Dion could be the top pair, I just wouldn't wanna seperate Hamhuis and Bieksa because Bieksa plays terrible when he is with Edler.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 11 November 2012 - 01:55 PM.

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#942 oldnews

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

Yep. Emotion clouds reason. Phaneuf would be a 1D on our team.

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
2nd

VAN
Phaneuf
Kessel

Phaneuf - Edler
Hamhuis - Bieksa


?
truly an odd proposal
our odd men out for their lack of character core players...

Phaneuf becomes the highest paid third pairing blueliner in the NHL...

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Phaneuf Tanev

By the way - Hamhius was 10th in Norris voting last year, Edler 15th and Phaneuf wasn't even in the top 20 (and hasn't been since landing in Lalaland).
I realize there are some people here (like king) who think it is irrelevant what side you throw a blueliner on (this debate has been done in this thread), but Edler does not play the right side - it's a bad idea, and it does matter.

Phaneuf in the top three behind Weber and Chara? Not even the most deluded Leafs' faithful could make that claim.

Kessel is one of the league's premiere floaters/cherry pickers. His -30 over that past two seasons is part and parcel of the fact he is an absolute liability without the puck. The Leafs would be wise to move Phaneuf and Kessel - these guys are where they should start their rebuild. The idea of the two of them in Canucks jerseys is revolting.

Edited by oldnews, 11 November 2012 - 04:57 PM.

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#943 oldnews

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.


"Well I am king"...


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#944 Gooseberries

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

Uhh, no. I like Phaneuf but I can name a few guys that are much better than Phaneuf:

(this is in no general order)

Karlsson
Doughty
Keith
Seabrook
Suter
McDonagh
Letang
Hamhuis

not to mention Weber chara edler lindstrom (just retired ) kronwall burns boyle campbell. just to name a few more
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#945 WiDeN

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:42 PM

Yep. Emotion clouds reason. Phaneuf would be a 1D on our team.

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
2nd

VAN
Phaneuf
Kessel

Phaneuf - Edler
Hamhuis - Bieksa

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.


You guys are crazy. Phaneuf would be in our top 4, but definitely not a #1. He is not defensively responsible, and can shoot, but not quarterback a PP. He is horribly inconsistent, and previously over rated. I don't think you could convince any hockey people outside Toronto that he was anywhere close to a top 10 D in the league, and likely more towards the bottom of the top 20 if that. I also know a couple people that know him, and apparently he is a douche. Take that for what it is, regurgitated unreliable info, but it doesn't fall far from where I had him estimated.
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#946 Pears

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

Yep. Emotion clouds reason. Phaneuf would be a 1D on our team.

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
2nd

VAN
Phaneuf
Kessel

Phaneuf - Edler
Hamhuis - Bieksa

Its a long shot that the Leafs trade Phaneuf for Luongo, but Kessel as well?? That's just a massive pipe dream.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#947 playboi19

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.

He would be our #1 Pylon.
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#948 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

Phaneuf becomes the highest paid third pairing blueliner in the NHL...

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Phaneuf Tanev


:lol:

The guy with more points than anyone (who is also younger than all but Edler & Tanev), the only guy who's been a multiple NHL All-Star, the only guy who's been a team captain, etc., somehow becomes the Canucks' 5th defenceman.

As always, you are the most level-headed, free-of-bias poster of this site's lot.
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#949 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

"Well I am king"...

https://www.youtube....h?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI


Hey, here's one for you.

What happened to the great Dan Hamhuis on this one? You know, the goal that sealed our fate against the Kings?


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#950 oldnews

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

:lol:

The guy with more points than anyone (who is also younger than all but Edler & Tanev), the only guy who's been a multiple NHL All-Star, the only guy who's been a team captain, etc., somehow becomes the Canucks' 5th defenceman.

As always, you are the most level-headed, free-of-bias poster of this site's lot.


I'm sure they've got an extra paper bag in Toronto...you're welcome to it.
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#951 Gollumpus

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

"Well I am king"...


http://www.tcm.com/m...l-Trailer-.html


regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#952 WolfxHaley

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

Seriously, I hope you're kidding. He would very clearly be our #1 d-man. He'd get more points and be far more physical than anyone we've got.

Some of the things read on this site are just incredible.

You were totally that kid in school who always had to have a different opinion just to stand out.
Look people have different opinions and that's cool, but the way you attack people and TRY to make yourself come off more informed then everyone is the reason why you are considered a troll.
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#953 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

:lol:

The guy with more points than anyone (who is also younger than all but Edler & Tanev), the only guy who's been a multiple NHL All-Star, the only guy who's been a team captain, etc., somehow becomes the Canucks' 5th defenceman.

As always, you are the most level-headed, free-of-bias poster of this site's lot.


According to the majority: Bieksa is God, Hamhuis is God, Garisson is God, Edler is God, Phaneuf is a Leaf.

Despicable.
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#954 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

I'm sure they've got an extra paper bag in Toronto...you're welcome to it.


So Phaneuf sucks because the team that he's on sucks - is that what you're saying?

This was a dominant player on the Calgary Flames from the day that he started his NHL career, and who was inexplicably traded to Toronto. In what direction have the Flames gone in since that trade? Right. They were slumping, Sutter panicked, and made an awful, franchise-killing move. They should've been a contender that year. And they've been a total mess since that very day.

Not Dion's fault that he was traded to an inept team.
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#955 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

You were totally that kid in school who always had to have a different opinion just to stand out.
Look people have different opinions and that's cool, but the way you attack people and TRY to make yourself come off more informed then everyone is the reason why you are considered a troll.


Let's hear an argument for why Phaneuf would be our 5th defenceman.

Who's the troll?
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#956 WolfxHaley

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

Let's hear an argument for why Phaneuf would be our 5th defenceman.

Who's the troll?

I am not justifying what other people said.
I think Phaneuf would be a solid player for us. I just don't agree with his cap hit.
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#957 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:25 PM

I am not justifying what other people said.
I think Phaneuf would be a solid player for us. I just don't agree with his cap hit.


So are you aware that you've called me a troll for calling out someone else's horrible take on Phaneuf? And that you agree with me - the "troll" - on the topic in question?

Again, I ask, who is the troll? Is it the guy calling out the other guy with the dumb opinion, or is it the guy who thinks that Dion Phaneuf would be the 5th defenceman on the Vancouver Canucks?
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#958 WiDeN

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

So are you aware that you've called me a troll for calling out someone else's horrible take on Phaneuf? And that you agree with me - the "troll" - on the topic in question?

Again, I ask, who is the troll? Is it the guy calling out the other guy with the dumb opinion, or is it the guy who thinks that Dion Phaneuf would be the 5th defenceman on the Vancouver Canucks?

You are aware that you chose to rip someone for not backing up why he isn't a #1 rather than address my comment that did.

You like to pick the arguments that you can keep vague, because it's easier to sound like you've "won".

Phaneuf played better in Calgary cause he could count on Regeir to bail him out. He is no better than Bieksa, but way more expensive, and has a questionable locker room presence. He may have rectified the personality issues, as he is a captain and all, but I don't see him as a major upgrade on what we have already considering his price tag.
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#959 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

:lol:

The guy with more points than anyone (who is also younger than all but Edler & Tanev), the only guy who's been a multiple NHL All-Star, the only guy who's been a team captain, etc., somehow becomes the Canucks' 5th defenceman.

As always, you are the most level-headed, free-of-bias poster of this site's lot.


:picard: Again you should read, this is why he has him put on the 3rd pair: (he even mentioned you in it specifically)

I realize there are some people here (like king) who think it is irrelevant what side you throw a blueliner on (this debate has been done in this thread), but Edler does not play the right side - it's a bad idea, and it does matter.


Also in response to some of the other things you have said that I don't feel like quoting:

- Phaneuf doesn't suck because he is on a bad team, he's not as great as you think because he isn't great defensively and is inconsistent, he is a huge part of why Toronto has sucked, so when you say they suck, As the captain and #1 D-man he should be the first one to take alot of blame. Don't you think?

- And why do you think Calgary traded him? If he had still been the player he was in 05-06 and 06-07 there is no way they would have traded him.

Also, just to help you understand, since u didn't seem to in that one response. this is why he said your a troll:



Look people have different opinions and that's cool, but the way you attack people and TRY to make yourself come off more informed then everyone is the reason why you are considered a troll.


Finally, this is my personal opinion on Phaneuf.

I think he would be a nice addition, I would love to have him, but if he can't play the right side he would just become another Ballard because I certainly wouldn't play him over Hamhuis, and maybe not even or Edler. So while I think he would be great here, and above average top 4 D-man for sure, I certainly don't think he would be our #1.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 11 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.

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#960 King of the ES

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:22 PM

Phaneuf played better in Calgary cause he could count on Regeir to bail him out. He is no better than Bieksa, but way more expensive, and has a questionable locker room presence. He may have rectified the personality issues, as he is a captain and all, but I don't see him as a major upgrade on what we have already considering his price tag.


Bieksa (31 years old): 425 GP, 42 G, 191 P, +24
Phaneuf (27 years old): 552 GP, 97 G, 312 P, +5

Phaneuf: 3X NHL All-star, WJC Gold, WC Gold
Bieksa: ....

I could tell you that Ryan Kesler's "no better than" Tyler Bozak, and that assertion would be about as valid as yours.
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