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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#1621 King of the ES

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:31 AM

The simple fact about this entire thing is that it is complete media speculation, niether goaltender has said anything bad about one another, they both have handled it amazingly, been great teammates and are good friends. Even if Luongo doesn't get traded right away, boht goaltenders know he won't be here forever, a year at the absolute max, but I doubt that highly. It's not nearly the big deal you make it out to be.


Media have been speculating what they have because it's completely obvious that that's what would happen. The only people who don't see the clear reasons why neither goalie would be happy with such an arrangement are biased Canuck fans like yourself who simply refuse to look at anything but the best case scenarios. What do you mean that they won't hold hands and skip merrily to the dressing room in tandem? They're such good friends!

Anytime you are making a trade you have to anaylze and ask yourself if the deal actually makes us better, you have to carefully assess every possible scenerio (something you never seem to do in your arguments BTW) you can't leave any stone left unturned. When you look at the return you have to ask if it will have a bigger impact to this team than Roberto can, if it does then do it. But if not or it is something that is a cap dump then don't. It's not a tough thing to figure out.


Great, so how's he going to be worth more on the open market in June of 2013 than what he will be today?

Do you think he is gunna play another decade? Just another narrow headed argument.

You don't know anything about the CBA since I never see you post in there, and if you did you would have heard about the possibilites of perhaps teams will be punished for these contracts. We may have to take a share of the cap hit when we trade him which would make him alot more valuable, also/or else we might have to take on his cap hit for the remainder of the deal after he is retired.


Why is it a "narrow headed argument" (whatever that means) to suggest that Luongo's going to play for another decade? That's when his contract runs until, is it not? Besides Markus Naslund, who are the other NHL players that have walked away from active NHL contracts to retire without being forced to by injury?

And I don't know anything about the CBA, that's true, and neither do you, because a CBA doesn't exist.

I think it would be around 2017/2018 he would retire, maybe even 2016. Knowing Lu he probably will retire when he thinks he can't play at his highest level.

What is there to consider? they get good goaltending till he retires? They had Ed Belfour till he was 40. And he was still a good goalie for them.


2017/18 or 2016 - were these the spaces that your dart landed on when trying to predict when Lou would retire? You are aware that if he retires in 2016, he'll be walking away from $20,428,000 of guaranteed money. You understand that, right? If 2017, $13,714,000. Even in 2018, he'd be walking away from $7,000,000. These hockey players earn a lot of money, but they also tend to have very high-consumption lifestyles. So they're not as rich as you might think. Don't count on early retirement; it is simply not in Luongo's interest.

And as for your point on Ed Belfour, the Leafs also had Sundin, Mogilny, McCabe, Kaberle, Tucker, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, etc., etc. A little different than what they've got now.

Edited by King of the ES, 26 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.

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#1622 King of the ES

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

Double.

Edited by King of the ES, 26 November 2012 - 04:41 AM.

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#1623 sampy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:45 AM

an opinion based on what? Do tell? Dubnyk was a first round pick which gives him credibility, 14th overall, which is a number arrived at by MANY hockey scouts, His numbers were not much worse than Lou's last year playing for the bottom feeding Oilers. Put Dubnyk behind the Canucks defense and see what happens, and see how Lou would fair on the Oilers. Dubnyk does need a bit more seasoning but is a big, technical goaltender. Give him a good team in front of him and watch him shine, I 've watched Dubnyk and see a ton of potential, and I look at it from a Coaches point of view, not a TV watcher who is NOT a goalie.

Come on, Dubnyk isn't and will never be as good as Lu, I can appreciate your goaltending experience but you lose everyone when you compare the 2.
Lu made the All Star team and was nominated for the Vezina and Pearson at the age of 24 while playing for the Panthers. Dubnyk, at 26, isn't even top 30 in the league.
You make good points and then lose everyone with stupid points. We all get it, you don't like Lu technically and I agree Schneids is better but you don't give Lu enough credit. He is still a very good goaltender. According to your rationale, Yzerman should have called up Dubnyk to backstop the 2010 gold medal team. A lot if elite coaching minds chose Lu over every other Canadian goaltender.

Edited by sampy, 26 November 2012 - 09:47 AM.

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#1624 smurf47

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

Come on, Dubnyk isn't and will never be as good as Lu, I can appreciate your goaltending experience but you lose everyone when you compare the 2.
Lu made the All Star team and was nominated for the Vezina and Pearson at the age of 24 while playing for the Panthers. Dubnyk, at 26, isn't even top 30 in the league.
You make good points and then lose everyone with stupid points. We all get it, you don't like Lu technically and I agree Schneids is better but you don't give Lu enough credit. He is still a very good goaltender. According to your rationale, Yzerman should have called up Dubnyk to backstop the 2010 gold medal team. A lot if elite coaching minds chose Lu over every other Canadian goaltender.

And I'm not saying Lou wasn;t great, what I did do was compare Dubnyk to Luongo LAST season, and they were comparable or close. Putting Dubnyk on the Canucks, and Lou on the Oilers would change both goalies numbers dramatically. Surely you agree that would or could be the case? Dubnyk is a victim of his non performing Oilers !
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#1625 sampy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

And I'm not saying Lou wasn;t great, what I did do was compare Dubnyk to Luongo LAST season, and they were comparable or close. Putting Dubnyk on the Canucks, and Lou on the Oilers would change both goalies numbers dramatically. Surely you agree that would or could be the case? Dubnyk is a victim of his non performing Oilers !

No I don't agree. I think Lu is far superior technically than Dubnyk and the Oilers would have done a lot better if Lu was in their net.
Do you think Lu's play has dropped off that much in 1 year because in 2010 he was considered Canada's best goaltender by many elite minds??
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#1626 smurf47

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

No I don't agree. I think Lu is far superior technically than Dubnyk and the Oilers would have done a lot better if Lu was in their net.
Do you think Lu's play has dropped off that much in 1 year because in 2010 he was considered Canada's best goaltender by many elite minds??

Look at shootout stats... Dubnyk was .741 vs Lou's 27th place .595. This is a stat that reflects technical ability because its one on one. Whether you agree or not, Dubnyk moves better than Lou. over the season, Lou was .005 better in SP. hardly a staggering improvement !Canucks scored over 1/2 a goal more per game than 28th placed Edmonton. The gap, if there is one between the 2 is way less than the gap between Schneids and Lou !!
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#1627 Pears

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

Look at shootout stats... Dubnyk was .741 vs Lou's 27th place .595. This is a stat that reflects technical ability because its one on one. Whether you agree or not, Dubnyk moves better than Lou. over the season, Lou was .005 better in SP. hardly a staggering improvement !Canucks scored over 1/2 a goal more per game than 28th placed Edmonton. The gap, if there is one between the 2 is way less than the gap between Schneids and Lou !!

Pathetic comparison. Whether one goalie is better than another looking only at who is better in shootouts is just dumb.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1628 smurf47

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

Pathetic comparison. Whether one goalie is better than another looking only at who is better in shootouts is just dumb.


Pathetic comparison. Whether one goalie is better than another looking only at who is better in shootouts is just dumb.

Only to you wonder kinder !!
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#1629 Pears

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

Only to you wonder kinder !!

No. Not only to me. If you are looking at what goalie is better, you look at career GAA, sv%, and personal hardware. In this case, Luongo is easily the better goalie.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1630 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

No. Not only to me. If you are looking at what goalie is better, you look at career GAA, sv%, and personal hardware. In this case, Luongo is easily the better goalie.


14 minutes before your last post you called someone out for a pathetic comparison, and then you compare a goalie on a very poor team that has finished last in the league to a goalie on the 2 time presidents trophy winning team and come to the conclusion that Lu is the better goalie because his stats are better?
Lu is miles closer to Dubnyk's lever than he is to Schneider's level and that is why Lu will be gone soon enough!
Gillis should be fired under your assumption because Hasek has miles and miles and miles more hardware than Lu will ever have and was wanting to play this season.
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#1631 Pears

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

14 minutes before your last post you called someone out for a pathetic comparison, and then you compare a goalie on a very poor team that has finished last in the league to a goalie on the 2 time presidents trophy winning team and come to the conclusion that Lu is the better goalie because his stats are better?
Lu is miles closer to Dubnyk's lever than he is to Schneider's level and that is why Lu will be gone soon enough!
Gillis should be fired under your assumption because Hasek has miles and miles and miles more hardware than Lu will ever have and was wanting to play this season.

Do you honestly think comparing who is better at shootouts determines what goalie is better? Luongo will always be better than Dubnyk until he starts to decline.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1632 sampy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:43 AM

Do you honestly think comparing who is better at shootouts determines what goalie is better? Luongo will always be better than Dubnyk until he starts to decline.

Yes Lu will be. At 24-25 years old Lu was dominating the league, at 26 years old Dubnyk played part backup to a 40 year old on the worst team.
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#1633 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Do you honestly think comparing who is better at shootouts determines what goalie is better? Luongo will always be better than Dubnyk until he starts to decline.


About as good of barometer as comparing 2 goalies with 1 having a strong team that plays with the lead a lot, and 1 goalie on close to the worst team in the league that plays from behind a lot and needs to take many more chances.
If you cannot see the decline in Lu's play since the SCF where his ego was crushed there is no rational argument that will be ever be made that you will understand.
You cannot compare Lu's stats from 6 years on a crappy Florida team and against even the Canucks team of the 1st couple seasons. Goals are down significantly over the past few years league wide, I say this because sure as crap you going to say his stats were above his career numbers and not take into account all the other variables.
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#1634 Riviera82

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

No. Not only to me. If you are looking at what goalie is better, you look at career GAA, sv%, and personal hardware. In this case, Luongo is easily the better goalie.


Luongo has had the better career without question. However, as of last season their stats are comparable, especially considering the teams they play for.
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#1635 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

Media have been speculating what they have because it's completely obvious that that's what would happen. The only people who don't see the clear reasons why neither goalie would be happy with such an arrangement are biased Canuck fans like yourself who simply refuse to look at anything but the best case scenarios. What do you mean that they won't hold hands and skip merrily to the dressing room in tandem? They're such good friends!


Actually I can understand why niether would be happy but all we have seen so far, all that we can be positive on is that they co-exist well. Again, you saying both will be very unhappy and that the situation will become alot worse than it was last year is pure speculation.

Yes Both goalies want to play more, but they both know Lu will eventually be gone, and they won't put themselves ahead of the team.

Everything we have seen thus-far with there relationship only proves my point that they will be fine if they have to play together for half a year to a year or so, whereas yours is just pure speculation.

Your looking at it from the goaltending controvesy point of view (Which both goalies have refused to delve into) where as I look at things from the realistic point of view, yes both goaltender won't be happy, but they won't do anything about it they will just continue to be team players. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't follow this team closely over the past 2 years.


Great, so how's he going to be worth more on the open market in June of 2013 than what he will be today?


How much different will his value be before the deadline when the Leafs are trending downward and Burke is on the edge of losing his job?

Why is it a "narrow headed argument" (whatever that means) to suggest that Luongo's going to play for another decade? That's when his contract runs until, is it not? Besides Markus Naslund, who are the other NHL players that have walked away from active NHL contracts to retire without being forced to by injury?


It is narrow headed because you refuse to take other factor's into consideration, you only look at things from your arguments point of view, you don't even take a peak at things from another point of view, or take things into consideration that contradict your argument, regardless of how much truth are behind those other views.

Go Look it up, probably more than you think, and with all the life long contracts that were signed in the last CBA there will be alot more who walk away from there deals at the tail end.

And I don't know anything about the CBA, that's true, and neither do you, because a CBA doesn't exist.


I know, I'm not the one making statements that have no backing and arguing based on the old CBA.

2017/18 or 2016 - were these the spaces that your dart landed on when trying to predict when Lou would retire? You are aware that if he retires in 2016, he'll be walking away from $20,428,000 of guaranteed money. You understand that, right? If 2017, $13,714,000. Even in 2018, he'd be walking away from $7,000,000. These hockey players earn a lot of money, but they also tend to have very high-consumption lifestyles. So they're not as rich as you might think. Don't count on early retirement; it is simply not in Luongo's interest.


No actually he isn't if he retires in lets say at the end of the 2017/18 season.

He will be walking away from a grand total of 7 Million over the rest of the deal. He will have already made 60 Million. he has already mad almost that in every prior season.

With all the money he has made so far (Over 60 Million just in this deal alone) do you really think Money is an issue for him?

Yes it is great but he is set, he doesn't have to work to support anyone, he is set for the rest of his life, if he doesn't want to continue playing he will surely value that over the little bit of money he has left to earn his contract (compared to all the money he has already made)

But you didn't think about that at all did you? Again, Narrow headed.

And as for your point on Ed Belfour, the Leafs also had Sundin, Mogilny, McCabe, Kaberle, Tucker, Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, etc., etc. A little different than what they've got now.


Aging Mogilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk & Nolan, all of which who were well past there prime, and didn't produce to nearly there prior level's of production. (Nolan 48 Pts, Roberts 48 Points, Nieuwendyk 51 Points, Mogilny 30 Points in an injury shortened season)

McCabe & Sundin both had great years, they were key players for sure.

Kaberle was just becoming a key player, his season was average by all means (Only 31 Points).

Tucker was pretty much our verison our Higgins or Raymond, just a 3rd line player, only had 32 points.

Aside from McCabe and Kaberle there defense was pretty weak, Leetch was picked up at the deadline to help that but he didn't turn out to be what they had expected.

Then you look at Belfour's stats: 37 Wins, 20 Losses, 7 Shutouts, .922 SV%, 2.26 GAA,

His Playoff Stats were incredible considering how badly his team played: 6 Wins, 7 Losses, 3 Shutouts, .929 SV%, 2.09 GAA, all all that in only 13 Games.

But you seem to think it was more the team and less Belfour, without him they would have been out in the 1st round and it's possible that they wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

They were basicly a team of former greats who were past there prime, some younger players who were just coming into there own as key players, and all that was led and held together by a star goalie (And Mats Sundin of course), there team wasn't as good as you think.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#1636 elvis15

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

Luongo has had the better career without question. However, as of last season their stats are comparable, especially considering the teams they play for.

Sure, but is that one year indicative of all future performance? Should we throw out the past results and look only at technical play irrespective of all other factors? Not to pick on your post, but you've presented a bit of both sides so it makes sense to do so versus focussing on one side or the other.

What I believe (and I'm sure I've already said it since this is just another of the conversations that has dragged on for numerous pages without any real reason why it should) is Luongo will be better than Dubnyk over the next couple years and at least equal to him for a couple more after that. I think Dubnyk doesn't have the same upside when compared to what Luongo was projected to achieve when he was that age but can still be a pretty good goalie, which is sometimes all you need.

Edmonton's bad and Vancouver is better, no doubt. Would Edmonton be better by adding Luongo than with Dubnyk and Khabi (or whoever they get as a backup) - probably, depending on who they gave up to get him. If they could add him by giving up players they have plenty of depth in and picks, it would likely be worthwhile.

The issue of course comes back to trading to a divisional rival. The Canucks would want Edmonton to overpay based on value considering they'd likely be giving up the most experienced player with the biggest current star power. Edmonton wouldn't want to give up any significant future and find a way to have the Canucks take back a higher contract. I don't think those sides match up to a deal, so it's all a moot point unless things get creative.
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#1637 Riviera82

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

Sure, but is that one year indicative of all future performance? Should we throw out the past results and look only at technical play irrespective of all other factors? Not to pick on your post, but you've presented a bit of both sides so it makes sense to do so versus focussing on one side or the other.

What I believe (and I'm sure I've already said it since this is just another of the conversations that has dragged on for numerous pages without any real reason why it should) is Luongo will be better than Dubnyk over the next couple years and at least equal to him for a couple more after that. I think Dubnyk doesn't have the same upside when compared to what Luongo was projected to achieve when he was that age but can still be a pretty good goalie, which is sometimes all you need.

Edmonton's bad and Vancouver is better, no doubt. Would Edmonton be better by adding Luongo than with Dubnyk and Khabi (or whoever they get as a backup) - probably, depending on who they gave up to get him. If they could add him by giving up players they have plenty of depth in and picks, it would likely be worthwhile.

The issue of course comes back to trading to a divisional rival. The Canucks would want Edmonton to overpay based on value considering they'd likely be giving up the most experienced player with the biggest current star power. Edmonton wouldn't want to give up any significant future and find a way to have the Canucks take back a higher contract. I don't think those sides match up to a deal, so it's all a moot point unless things get creative.


That's hard to predict. Chances are that Luongo is/or will be going on the decline while Dubnyk could very well be on the upswing.
Hypothetically if these goalies were to switch teams, based on their comparable numbers from last season I would think that Dubnyk would end up with the more impressive stats compared to Luongo.
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#1638 smurf47

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:44 PM

No. Not only to me. If you are looking at what goalie is better, you look at career GAA, sv%, and personal hardware. In this case, Luongo is easily the better goalie.

WAS !!!
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#1639 Pears

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

WAS !!!

And Luongo still is better than Dubnyk.That's common sense to know.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1640 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

The narrow mindedness of some posters never ceases to amaze.

Why not celebrate the fact that the Vancouver Canucks have a hell of a team and nothing short of a great tandem in net.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 26 November 2012 - 08:16 PM.

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#1641 WiDeN

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

And I'm not saying Lou wasn;t great, what I did do was compare Dubnyk to Luongo LAST season, and they were comparable or close. Putting Dubnyk on the Canucks, and Lou on the Oilers would change both goalies numbers dramatically. Surely you agree that would or could be the case? Dubnyk is a victim of his non performing Oilers !

I actually like Dubnyk, and I have watched him a lot, but I don't think he is better than Lu. Lu may have had an off year #'s wise last year, but Luongo has the ability to dominate, and that is not robbed from him in one year.
Luongo is better looking, and if I were a girl I would let him take me out for spaghetti. Dubnyk would have to stay in the friend zone.
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#1642 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:05 PM

I actually like Dubnyk, and I have watched him a lot, but I don't think he is better than Lu. Lu may have had an off year #'s wise last year, but Luongo has the ability to dominate, and that is not robbed from him in one year.
Luongo is better looking, and if I were a girl I would let him take me out for spaghetti. Dubnyk would have to stay in the friend zone.


The funny part of this post is that it may hold just as much if not more factual evidence than most posts in this thread!

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 26 November 2012 - 09:05 PM.

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#1643 shazzam

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

Come on, Dubnyk isn't and will never be as good as Lu, I can appreciate your goaltending experience but you lose everyone when you compare the 2.
Lu made the All Star team and was nominated for the Vezina and Pearson at the age of 24 while playing for the Panthers. Dubnyk, at 26, isn't even top 30 in the league.
You make good points and then lose everyone with stupid points. We all get it, you don't like Lu technically and I agree Schneids is better but you don't give Lu enough credit. He is still a very good goaltender. According to your rationale, Yzerman should have called up Dubnyk to backstop the 2010 gold medal team. A lot if elite coaching minds chose Lu over every other Canadian goaltender.


while Luongo was getting his first vezina nomination, Tim Thomas was playing outside the NHL. Thomas wasn't a starter in the NHL until he was 30+. Back then, I bet everyone thought Thomas would never be as good as Luongo. Yet he accomplished more in the NHL than Luongo has. I wouldn't count out Dubnyk just yet...
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#1644 King of the ES

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:12 AM

Actually I can understand why niether would be happy but all we have seen so far, all that we can be positive on is that they co-exist well. Again, you saying both will be very unhappy and that the situation will become alot worse than it was last year is pure speculation.


Yes, but it's speculation based on a realistic assessment of facts.

How much different will his value be before the deadline when the Leafs are trending downward and Burke is on the edge of losing his job?


The only way his market value will improve is if more buyers come into the mix - which is unlikely, given the sheer level of pre-existing investment in goaltenders by other teams. Toronto will not be "more desperate" if they start off slow, because they still probably won't be competing for the asset amongst other buyers. They'll still have more leverage, because Gillis will still be more eager to unload him.

Go Look it up, probably more than you think, and with all the life long contracts that were signed in the last CBA there will be alot more who walk away from there deals at the tail end.


You made the point, you go do the work. I don't think that it's very many players at all - Naslund is the only guy that comes to mind.

No actually he isn't if he retires in lets say at the end of the 2017/18 season.

He will be walking away from a grand total of 7 Million over the rest of the deal. He will have already made 60 Million. he has already mad almost that in every prior season.

With all the money he has made so far (Over 60 Million just in this deal alone) do you really think Money is an issue for him?

Yes it is great but he is set, he doesn't have to work to support anyone, he is set for the rest of his life, if he doesn't want to continue playing he will surely value that over the little bit of money he has left to earn his contract (compared to all the money he has already made)

But you didn't think about that at all did you? Again, Narrow headed.


What's really "narrow headed" is for a guy like you to think that Luongo will happily walk away from $7M because he "doesn't want to continue playing". $7M is over 10% of his contract's value. He has children, and a big family. The fiscal state of this continent is shaky. I'm not saying that he "needs" it, but he might (again, these guys tend to be big spenders), and based on principle alone, it would be very, very difficult to walk away from $7M. Even if Lu plays out his contract in its entirety, he'll only be 42 years old. A lot of life left, and a lot of free time.

I'm not sure why he'd be so eager to leave the game, at the age of 39 (in 2018), that he'd be willing to walk away from $7,000,000 to do so. When guys get to "the end", they also have a tendency to just begin appreciating what they have, and they tend to want to elongate their careers as they fear the unknowns associated with retirement - namely, zero commitments, zero structure, zero hockey player camaraderie, etc. This "early retirement" stuff should be put to rest.

But you seem to think it was more the team and less Belfour, without him they would have been out in the 1st round and it's possible that they wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

They were basicly a team of former greats who were past there prime, some younger players who were just coming into there own as key players, and all that was led and held together by a star goalie (And Mats Sundin of course), there team wasn't as good as you think.


Mats Sundin was the linchpin of that team, not Ed Belfour. They were loaded with "former greats", yes, but those guys still knew how to play. They were a dangerous team. Not comparable whatsoever to what exists today.

And you're not actually suggesting that adding Luongo to these Maple Leafs will render them having a comparable amount of success to the early 2000 versions, are you?
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#1645 oldnews

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

"Needs" is debatable. Reimer almost got them into the playoffs in 2011, practically single-handedly. If they have any belief in him all, still, it wouldn't make much sense to acquire Luongo. At 24 years old, it's reasonable to think that they might instead want to try and develop him.

If they've lost faith...it would stand to reason that they'd need another goaltender. But I'm not sure that there's a lot of evidence to suggest that.


http://www.sportsnet...oronto_marlies/
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#1646 King of the ES

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

http://www.sportsnet...oronto_marlies/


OK, but "veteran" could mean a lot of things. It could mean Vokoun, Nabokov, Khabibulin, Roloson, etc. Or, it could mean Luongo. Who knows?

Scrivens, though, is an undrafted guy who's played 12 NHL games. Good as he's been in the AHL, too, he's only played 83 games there and he's in his 3rd season with the team. Totally unproven, unlike Reimer, who's had success in the NHL and (at least) was a mid-level draft pick. So it would stand to reason that given Reimer's questionable health and Scrivens' inexperience, of course they'd like to add another goalie. But you've gotta think that they'd not be that interested in Luongo unless they've completely given up on Reimer, who's 24 years old. It's possible that they have, I have no idea. Time will tell.
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#1647 oldnews

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

I don't think this is a fair assessment of Luongo. He is an elite goaltender and is most likely going to rebound when play resumes. There is no reason to trade either goaltender right now and they're both going to play rather equal games. I don't think the Canucks would venture in disrespecting a player whose star factor rivals that of the best in the game.

Schneider can warm the bench as much if not more than Luongo and sit on his $4.000 MIL a yr salary. I'm pretty sure he won't be complaining.

Stop sounding so vindictive against one of the greatest athlete to suit up for a Vancouver franchise. It is not the Detroit way. Dominik Hasek won his first Cup at age 37 and for most of his tenure in Detroit, he had some very good competition going. Of course, Detroit had a 1D in Lidstrom and one of the greatest captain in history in Yzerman. But I guess Edler and Henrik will get to their status huh?

As I said; goaltending is the least of Vancouver's problem right now. Top notch defense, scoring and sandpaper grit are the problems.

Schneider for Campbell? I'm taking it.
Schneider for Phaneuf? I'm taking it.
Wait until Weber is again available? Definitely.


I was really starting to agree with your posts CH101, and enjoyed the 1789 reference, but this proposal, top notch defense "need" and scoring "need" are a bit much.
Last year the Canucks were fourth in the NHL in scoring - and were fourth in goals against - of the teams that scored more goals, the Canucks gave up fewer than any of them, and of the teams that allowed less, the Canucks scored more than any of them .
The season before the Canucks led the NHL in both categories.
Scoring... the problem has been intermittent and situational - something every team (unavoidably?) faces.
Adding Garrison to the top four is not going to hurt, and having prospects like Tanev developing into a solid NHLer won't hurt either (in addition to guys like Connauton and Sauve getting closer and adding viable depth).
I'd don't think the Canucks lack grit, but I wouldn't argue with giving up some quality to get Chris Neil!
Lastly, pretty please don't propose Schneider for Phaneuf - the idea alone gives me serious anxiety and sticks a real zinger in my mind's eye.
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#1648 oldnews

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

OK, but "veteran" could mean a lot of things. It could mean Vokoun, Nabokov, Khabibulin, Roloson, etc. Or, it could mean Luongo. Who knows?

Scrivens, though, is an undrafted guy who's played 12 NHL games. Good as he's been in the AHL, too, he's only played 83 games there and he's in his 3rd season with the team. Totally unproven, unlike Reimer, who's had success in the NHL and (at least) was a mid-level draft pick. So it would stand to reason that given Reimer's questionable health and Scrivens' inexperience, of course they'd like to add another goalie. But you've gotta think that they'd not be that interested in Luongo unless they've completely given up on Reimer, who's 24 years old. It's possible that they have, I have no idea. Time will tell.


What "veteran" means was not the issue.
You were arguing that the Leafs need is "debatable".
Apparently the first few lines of the article I posted indicate that they disagree with you...

"Toronto Maple Leafs senior vice president of hockey operations David Nonis would be surprised if James Reimer and Ben Scrivens were the team’s two goalies next season.
It has been confirmed by Leafs’ management that they will look to add a veteran goaltender in the off-season."
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#1649 King of the ES

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:44 PM

What "veteran" means was not the issue.
You were arguing that the Leafs need is "debatable".
Apparently the first few lines of the article I posted indicate that they disagree with you...

"Toronto Maple Leafs senior vice president of hockey operations David Nonis would be surprised if James Reimer and Ben Scrivens were the team’s two goalies next season.
It has been confirmed by Leafs’ management that they will look to add a veteran goaltender in the off-season."


Smashian said "Toronto needs Luongo", which is what my response was to.

Toronto has very legitimate arguments to not be interested in Luongo, and to instead focus on Reimer's development. They need a goalie, yes, but it does not need to be Roberto Luongo.
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#1650 Gollumpus

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

Smashian said "Toronto needs Luongo", which is what my response was to.

Toronto has very legitimate arguments to not be interested in Luongo, and to instead focus on Reimer's development. They need a goalie, yes, but it does not need to be Roberto Luongo.


Absolutely true. Marty Turco is available.

regards,
G.
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