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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#151 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Your point was that he isn't the goalie he used to be. Point failed.

"Lou has a had a great career..but hes not the goalie he was and i don;t believe he will fetch what a lot of fans believe hes worth"

That was the point of looking at his last two seasons Smurf.
38-15, 31-14, .928, .919... makes no difference.
Neither of them fall below his lifetime average.
No matter how you spin it 31-14 does not equal 9.
Suggesting that Luongo's best career season was two years ago really contradicts your point that he's not the goalie he used to be.
So, obviously, your point failed, and you are trying to wiggle your claim.


Lu's 1st post season was 1.77
2nd post season 2.52
3rd post season 3.22
4th post season 2.56
5th post season 3.59
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#152 oldnews

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:22 PM

Lu's 1st post season was 1.77
2nd post season 2.52
3rd post season 3.22
4th post season 2.56
5th post season 3.59


12 games
10 games
12 games
25 games
2 games

I personally think his best season was 2006/7 (or 2003/4)
but an argument can be made for 2010/11
Regardless, there has certainly been nothing resembling a consistent or gradual decline in his game.
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#153 riffraff

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:41 PM

I thought we were all talking about goats now.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#154 oldnews

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

I thought we were all talking about goats now.


We are.
Some of us are talking about hunting goats.
Some of us are talking about the scape-goat.
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#155 smurf47

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:44 PM

Lu's 1st post season was 1.77
2nd post season 2.52
3rd post season 3.22
4th post season 2.56
5th post season 3.59

And I did say 2010=11 was his best year, not only from a statisical point but from a technical point. Melanson reinvented his game, but, last season, Lou reverted to the Allaire school. It proved to be less effective than the season before. If Lou was smart enough to recognize that Melanson was on point...no one, not even me would be dissing him now. again, I'll say (read early posts) he needs to fix whats broken, or he will not rebound in form. No pack peddaling here !! Lou lacks consistancy, when under pressure on a game to game basis...hes stellar, or lousy !!
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#156 sting

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Yeah i know - Luongo has had 4 or 5 playoff breakdowns. People love to remember the bad games he has had against Chicago and Boston. They forget the four shutouts he had on route to that game 7 loss of the SCF. His lifetime .916 playoff sv% is 3 one thousandths off his regular season lifetime mark (half of those seasons were played behind the Islanders and Panthers) and 3 one thousanths off Martin Brodeurs's lifetime playoff mark (who, by the way, was playing behind the trapping NJD, and Scott Stevens, et al.) Luongo's worst playoff years were a 6 and 6 year with a .895 sv%, and last years 0-2 with a .891. Brodeur has had a 3-4 with an .856 sv%, a 1-4 with .881, another 1-4 with .891. He lost a game 7 of SCF and had a .897 mark that year. Doesn't really qualify your highway analogy does it. People here are pretty nearsighted. I suppose you wouldn't want to take Brodeur out on the highway either? Give Luongo 17 playoffs seasons with teams like the Devils had and he'd get-er-done a few times as well. I personally will never blame Luongo for the loss in game 7 - the Canucks imo simply weren't good/deep enough to beat Boston without Hamhius (and Rome) in the lineup. One more win however and Luongo's playoff stereotype would have swung wildly in the absolute opposite direction among fickle Canucks fans.

Sometimes I wish this fan base could have another taste of what truly awful goaltending looks like.
Did you see the Philly / Pittsburgh series last playoffs by any chance? Bryzgalov matched Luongo's lifetime worth of breakdowns in one single series. Fleury, not exactly a terrible goaltender (and a SC champion and Olympian), likewise, was absolutely, inexplicably horrible. It happens.

People here protest too much.


This x 1000

I have watched Fuhr, Belfour, Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Lundqvist all have more than their fair share of playoff meltdowns.

While i do not deny that Schneids is the better long term goalie, Question is does he improve our chances of winning a cup with this window?

3 seasons ago Luongo was considered THE FRANCHISE. He delivered a Gold Medal and most expert's pinned our hopes on how far he would carry us. I know for a fact that the Hawks gameplan was to crash the net at every opportunity to score. Byfuglien did just that.

Two seasons ago he was the driving force behind a President's Trophy, a Jennings and a Stanley Cup game seven.

Last season the Canucks had the best tandem in all of hockey, again won the presidents trophy despite lackluster seasons from many of the key players and Lou was solid enough for us to win against LA....but the players just couldn't score. No Sedin didn't help!!

I find it disheartening that many fans and media of this team so easily dismiss Luongo as a choker or bellyflopper or overpayed bum. I personally see Lou as the greatest goalie in Canuck history. A dominant player who helped carry this team to elite status. He gave all of us fans a chance to get excited about winning a cup. He would have too if our lineup wasn't completely demolished at the end of the finals.

Going forward Luongo and Schneider both deserve to be a number one. Luongo while i have noticed a slip in his play is still a top 10 goalie in the NHL and with a good system in front of him and something to prove there is plenty reason to believe he will give some team (probably Toronto) a reason to get excited come April.

Oh and one last thing............Do any of you think it funny that the same media and fans so critical of 33 yr old Luongo's contract and play were all going gaga for a 36 yr old Shane Doan at 5-6 million?
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#157 oldnews

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

And I did say 2010=11 was his best year, not only from a statisical point but from a technical point. Melanson reinvented his game, but, last season, Lou reverted to the Allaire school. It proved to be less effective than the season before. If Lou was smart enough to recognize that Melanson was on point...no one, not even me would be dissing him now. again, I'll say (read early posts) he needs to fix whats broken, or he will not rebound in form. No pack peddaling here !! Lou lacks consistancy, when under pressure on a game to game basis...hes stellar, or lousy !!


So when you were saying he isn't the goaltender he was, you meant he isn't the goalie he was last year?

I don't entirely agree with you. I still think Luongo played more deeply in his net last year than he had in the past, particularly when the opposition has possession in Vancouver's zone. I think Luongo reverted slightly - he didn't play as consistently deep as Melanson seemed to have him the year before, left his net and challenged slightly more (as he had in the past)) particularly on the rush, but I think he was looking for more of a balance/hybrid - and he also simply wasn't playing as much - as Schneider earned and got more starts than the year before, something that doesn't seem to suit Luongo's game. You can argue that Melanson improved his game, but he had a .931 sv % in a season in Florida, and in 2006/7 he may not have posted his best sv %, but was probably as dominant as ever, particularly when the playoffs rolled around.
There are things that frustrate me about his game - I agree that he over-reacts at times, gets himself out of position when he doesn't necessarily have to, and gives himself no real chance to recover on some plays (things I conversely love about Schneider's to this point - his technical efficiency and poise). But as sting pointed out, if you watch any goaltender over a long enough period of time, they all have vulnerabilities, tendencies, bad games, periods of inconsistency... Imo Luongo is better and more consistent than he gets credit for. I get somewhat annoyed by the tendency in Vancouver to never stop complaining, where nothing is ever good enough, where the irony of the sense of entitlement to a Cup is undermined by such fickle loyalty.

Edited by oldnews, 15 October 2012 - 11:21 PM.

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#158 smurf47

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

So when you were saying he isn't the goaltender he was, you meant he isn't the goalie he was last year?

I don't entirely agree with you. I still think Luongo played more deeply in his net last year than he had in the past, particularly when the opposition has possession in Vancouver's zone. I think Luongo reverted slightly - he didn't play as consistently deep as Melanson seemed to have him the year before, left his net and challenged slightly more (as he had in the past)) particularly on the rush, but I think he was looking for more of a balance/hybrid - and he also simply wasn't playing as much - as Schneider earned and got more starts than the year before, something that doesn't seem to suit Luongo's game. You can argue that Melanson improved his game, but he had a .931 sv % in a season in Florida, and in 2006/7 he may not have posted his best sv %, but was probably as dominant as ever, particularly when the playoffs rolled around.
There are things that frustrate me about his game - I agree that he over-reacts at times, gets himself out of position when he doesn't necessarily have to, and gives himself no real chance to recover on some plays (things I conversely love about Schneider's to this point - his technical efficiency and poise). But as sting pointed out, if you watch any goaltender over a long enough period of time, they all have vulnerabilities, tendencies, bad games, periods of inconsistency... Imo Luongo is better and more consistent than he gets credit for. I get somewhat annoyed by the tendency in Vancouver to never stop complaining, where nothing is ever good enough, where the irony of the sense of entitlement to a Cup is undermined by such fickle loyalty.

Good points ! I was thrilled for Lou in 2010-11 as he was playing great. Its anyones guess as to why he would abandon a system that was so effeictive . Hes been a great ambassodor for the team. great with the community, a team player and I think handled things pretty well. No one wants to see a guy like that fail. I;m not as anti Luongo as people might think, more pro schneider. I believe Schneiders game will stand up to anything thrown at him. His fundamentals are solid and ingrained in his gam e., He will have his share of poor outings but his game is as good as it gets. Getting back to Lou and goaltenders in general, consistancy, on a game to game basis is much more desirable that a hot and cold goalie. Lou is more a reflex goalie and thats hard to maintain game to game. He has been amazing and the next game or period he gets you shaking your head. I don;t believe his style these days instills a lot of confidence in the team.
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#159 Riviera82

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

Except if the only car you've ever had is a plymouth reliant (Toronto) then your thrilled with the thought of a owning a car that could even make it to the highway without breaking down, especially knowing you've had the cash for so long its time to make a purchase. Or perhaps the car is a classic, say a 69 corvette that you had when you were younger. You know it will never reach its peak performance again, but bringing it back has a lot of sentimental value (Florida). B)


Not bad.
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#160 oldnews

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

Good points ! I was thrilled for Lou in 2010-11 as he was playing great. Its anyones guess as to why he would abandon a system that was so effeictive . Hes been a great ambassodor for the team. great with the community, a team player and I think handled things pretty well. No one wants to see a guy like that fail. I;m not as anti Luongo as people might think, more pro schneider. I believe Schneiders game will stand up to anything thrown at him. His fundamentals are solid and ingrained in his gam e., He will have his share of poor outings but his game is as good as it gets. Getting back to Lou and goaltenders in general, consistancy, on a game to game basis is much more desirable that a hot and cold goalie. Lou is more a reflex goalie and thats hard to maintain game to game. He has been amazing and the next game or period he gets you shaking your head. I don;t believe his style these days instills a lot of confidence in the team.


I dont' agree that he abandoned Melanson's modifications to his game - I think he just used that strategy in a more situational way - with guys parked in front of the net and opposition possession, he still seemed to stay deeper than he used to. On the rush however, he seemed to revert to challenging more, and I didn't really see a problem with that. I'm just not sure he had the chance to get on the roll he did the year before - he had the early season groin, puck to the head, upper body injury? and then the stiff neck in March, as well as Schneider consistently commanding more starts - in addition, the whole team, despite the Pres-trophy, had a kind of odd season. All in all however, there's hardly anything alarming about 31-14 and .919... Imo he remains the goalie he has been all along.

Edited by oldnews, 16 October 2012 - 12:05 AM.

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#161 Riviera82

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:14 AM

12 games
10 games
12 games
25 games
2 games

I personally think his best season was 2006/7 (or 2003/4)
but an argument can be made for 2010/11
Regardless, there has certainly been nothing resembling a consistent or gradual decline in his game.


I certainly hope his playoff numbers couldn't decline any further. The only thing consistent about Luongo's playoff stats after 2007 is that they are mediocre to poor.
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#162 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:12 AM

It's been reported that as of a few days ago, 5 teams were calling about Luongo. Wheter he has 9 yrs, or 8 1/2 yrs left on his contract doesn't change. His contract will not change unless there's something in the new CBA. Those 5 teams calling now are aware of his contract, how he played last season etc - but they're still interested.



That's an interesting perspective, but again you're assuming Luongo will be the back up.
It's recognized that limited teams have interest in a goalie change, hence 5 teams that are reportedly calling about him. I'd argue 5 teams is not small, it's roughly 20% of the market. So you're arguing 'perceptions' of eliteness will alter his trade value? Always possible, but not really plausible. He's been an NHL player for 10+ years, as a GM you're more likely to value the larger sample size with focus on the last 3 or so years. Also, counseling your fan base about a trade is a PR issue, they have PR depts for that. It doesn't alter actual value.

The 2 most notable scenarios where I see his trade value decreasing:
a) More quality goaltenders are made available after the lockout
b ) Those teams who are currently interested, decide to go with their current tandem cause they're playing better than expected.


I'm not so sure you have been watching the Vancouver market; The Canucks PR team have not been in very good form counselling their fans of trades recently. "What that (dumb bastard Hodgson) was more trouble than all other players put together the last 4 years!"

:huh:

I argue a repercussion :lol: is Gillis himself is gun shy, trying to be sure he gets good value this time?

Yeah i know - Luongo has had 4 or 5 playoff breakdowns. People love to remember the bad games he has had against Chicago and Boston. They forget the four shutouts he had on route to that game 7 loss of the SCF. His lifetime .916 playoff sv% is 3 one thousandths off his regular season lifetime mark (half of those seasons were played behind the Islanders and Panthers) and 3 one thousanths off Martin Brodeurs's lifetime playoff mark (who, by the way, was playing behind the trapping NJD, and Scott Stevens, et al.) Luongo's worst playoff years were a 6 and 6 year with a .895 sv%, and last years 0-2 with a .891. Brodeur has had a 3-4 with an .856 sv%, a 1-4 with .881, another 1-4 with .891. He lost a game 7 of SCF and had a .897 mark that year. Doesn't really qualify your highway analogy does it. People here are pretty nearsighted. I suppose you wouldn't want to take Brodeur out on the highway either? Give Luongo 17 playoffs seasons with teams like the Devils had and he'd get-er-done a few times as well. I personally will never blame Luongo for the loss in game 7 - the Canucks imo simply weren't good/deep enough to beat Boston without Hamhius (and Rome) in the lineup. One more win however and Luongo's playoff stereotype would have swung wildly in the absolute opposite direction among fickle Canucks fans.

Sometimes I wish this fan base could have another taste of what truly awful goaltending looks like.
Did you see the Philly / Pittsburgh series last playoffs by any chance? Bryzgalov matched Luongo's lifetime worth of breakdowns in one single series. Fleury, not exactly a terrible goaltender (and a SC champion and Olympian), likewise, was absolutely, inexplicably horrible. It happens.

People here protest too much.


This is the single best argument I have seen supporting Luongo; well done!

As compelling as it is; the great playoff goalies were " clutch" and won both games and series, if not carrying their team kicking and screaming (ala rookie Patrick Roy 10 shutout Conn Smythe winning year) all the way to championships. Lou may have done that for 1 series, and been consistent in a few. Aside from L.A. a few years ago; can you remember when Lou would have been voted our MVP? But he is known for tanking it in games 5 & 7 against Chicago 3 / 4 years ago, letting Chicago back from 3 game leads versus burying them, not stealing a game in Boston when we were being outplayed but had a 2 game lead, or when injuries were mounting and odd's were stacked against us???

Stealing a victory in game 3 in Boston could have vaulted Lou into the HHOF, more so for game 6. And we need to remind ourselves that at that time he was the highest paid hockey player ($10 mill for that season) in the world. He let his tires get deflated and he was mentally out of it. That is why it's time to move on. And we had injuries and were being outplayed by L.A., so we also needed our $50 million dollar goalie to steal us that series. But he was not up to it. Quick was outplaying him and Schneider (albeit for a few games) also looked better. And then he wants a trade cuz his pride is hurt... It just spells that the situation will repeat itself.

As good as Lou is, which you clearly pointed out; he is not a man of the biggest moments. Even if they failed in some years, the Brodeur's, Dryden's and Roy's of the world enjoy their perch for a reason.

Edited by Canuck Surfer, 16 October 2012 - 01:22 AM.

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#163 King of the ES

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:24 AM

Your point was that he isn't the goalie he used to be. Point failed.

"Lou has a had a great career..but hes not the goalie he was and i don;t believe he will fetch what a lot of fans believe hes worth"

That was the point of looking at his last two seasons Smurf.
38-15, 31-14, .928, .919... makes no difference.
Neither of them fall below his lifetime average.
No matter how you spin it 31-14 does not equal 9.
Suggesting that Luongo's best career season was two years ago really contradicts your point that he's not the goalie he used to be.
So, obviously, your point failed, and you are trying to wiggle your claim.


Very touching story, indeed, but again you continue to fail to grasp that the CONTEXT of this transaction makes it such that the value which we're going to receive for Luongo is probably not that high.

Nobody (far as I know) is saying that he's not good - I've said this whole time that where Gillis screwed up was by not trading Schneider - it's just not a favorable time to trade him. And because of that, we will not be getting fair value. Somebody mentioned in an earlier message that Dreger brought up the fact that there's now 5 teams with interest in him. OK, well, you know what else Dreger brought up? Waivers. And the fact that that's even being discussed should give you a pretty strong signal as to what's being offered to us in return. And I know, oldnews, Darren Dreger has it out for the Canucks (LMAO), but you can't believe his assertion that there's 5 teams now in the mix without also believing in the credence of his "waiver" assertion.
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#164 riffraff

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

We are.
Some of us are talking about hunting goats.
Some of us are talking about the scape-goat.


Raaaymond, boooo-ooth, Baaaaahllard, or Bieksahhhhh?
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#165 smurf47

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:56 AM

I dont' agree that he abandoned Melanson's modifications to his game - I think he just used that strategy in a more situational way - with guys parked in front of the net and opposition possession, he still seemed to stay deeper than he used to. On the rush however, he seemed to revert to challenging more, and I didn't really see a problem with that. I'm just not sure he had the chance to get on the roll he did the year before - he had the early season groin, puck to the head, upper body injury? and then the stiff neck in March, as well as Schneider consistently commanding more starts - in addition, the whole team, despite the Pres-trophy, had a kind of odd season. All in all however, there's hardly anything alarming about 31-14 and .919... Imo he remains the goalie he has been all along.

Then, its evident, you don;t know squat about goaltending !!
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#166 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:01 AM

^^^
This guyz a tender coach dontchaknow
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#167 komodo1970

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

So when you were saying he isn't the goaltender he was, you meant he isn't the goalie he was last year?

I don't entirely agree with you. I still think Luongo played more deeply in his net last year than he had in the past, particularly when the opposition has possession in Vancouver's zone. I think Luongo reverted slightly - he didn't play as consistently deep as Melanson seemed to have him the year before, left his net and challenged slightly more (as he had in the past)) particularly on the rush, but I think he was looking for more of a balance/hybrid - and he also simply wasn't playing as much - as Schneider earned and got more starts than the year before, something that doesn't seem to suit Luongo's game. You can argue that Melanson improved his game, but he had a .931 sv % in a season in Florida, and in 2006/7 he may not have posted his best sv %, but was probably as dominant as ever, particularly when the playoffs rolled around.
There are things that frustrate me about his game - I agree that he over-reacts at times, gets himself out of position when he doesn't necessarily have to, and gives himself no real chance to recover on some plays (things I conversely love about Schneider's to this point - his technical efficiency and poise). But as sting pointed out, if you watch any goaltender over a long enough period of time, they all have vulnerabilities, tendencies, bad games, periods of inconsistency... Imo Luongo is better and more consistent than he gets credit for. I get somewhat annoyed by the tendency in Vancouver to never stop complaining, where nothing is ever good enough, where the irony of the sense of entitlement to a Cup is undermined by such fickle loyalty.


I.ve, personally been a fan of the Canucks since I was old enough to understand hockey. I,ve cheered for them through all the years of disappointment and remain a devoted fan to this day. My loyalty is anything but fickle.
Now, back to the issue at hand. Maybe fans are a bit critical of our team but, to me, this just emphasizes the love we have for our Canucks. One thing players have to know is that hockey in BC is almost a religion of it's own. We want so badly for them to win that sometimes their short comings over shadow their successes.
There is little question that we have the best team Vancouver management has been able to assemble and I feel that a couple of key additions will put us over the top. To me, our biggest needs are a winger to bring our second line into the elite category and provide consistent second line offense and a big, " stay at home," defenseman that provides stability in the defensive zone and can be counted on to police the front of the net, thus limiting second chances.
To make it perfectly clear, I do not place all the blame on goaltending. The team as whole needs to take responsibility for it's inability to rise to the occasion and achieve it,s ulimate goal; a Stanley Cup. That being said, however, we do have an abundance of assets in goal and could use one to acquire the needed pieces.
I believe both Schneids and Lou can get us there and it is irrelevant as to which one is kept. The key may lie in the length of the lock out. With NHL players sitting, waiting for a new CBA to be made, it is the AHLers that get a chance to shine. Eddie Lack is proving himself to be quite a good goaltender and is only getting better. This could be of significance because it may provide more options for Gillis to explore. If Lack puts together great games in Chicago, MG may become more accepting to offers for Schneider. This would be key as Schneider would bring better returns and open doors for more bidding wars. A play for a Bobby Ryan may become a possibility.
I believe Lou can get us there. It's whether or not the fans will accept him back in the number one role. I know the fans do not run the team, but in a way they kind of assist in decisions. No player wants to be booedon a nightly basis and be kept under a microscope on a nightly basis. The pressure becomes immense and sooner or later it becomes too much. I believe this is what has happened to Lou. I say we get behind this team no matter what the circumstances and give them our full support.
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#168 Snake Doctor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:17 PM

Looks like the lockout will end shortly. Hopefully Gillis has the deal in place to move Luongo. We can't keep both goalies here.
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#169 Riviera82

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

I.ve, personally been a fan of the Canucks since I was old enough to understand hockey. I,ve cheered for them through all the years of disappointment and remain a devoted fan to this day. My loyalty is anything but fickle.
Now, back to the issue at hand. Maybe fans are a bit critical of our team but, to me, this just emphasizes the love we have for our Canucks. One thing players have to know is that hockey in BC is almost a religion of it's own. We want so badly for them to win that sometimes their short comings over shadow their successes.
There is little question that we have the best team Vancouver management has been able to assemble and I feel that a couple of key additions will put us over the top. To me, our biggest needs are a winger to bring our second line into the elite category and provide consistent second line offense and a big, " stay at home," defenseman that provides stability in the defensive zone and can be counted on to police the front of the net, thus limiting second chances.
To make it perfectly clear, I do not place all the blame on goaltending. The team as whole needs to take responsibility for it's inability to rise to the occasion and achieve it,s ulimate goal; a Stanley Cup. That being said, however, we do have an abundance of assets in goal and could use one to acquire the needed pieces.
I believe both Schneids and Lou can get us there and it is irrelevant as to which one is kept. The key may lie in the length of the lock out. With NHL players sitting, waiting for a new CBA to be made, it is the AHLers that get a chance to shine. Eddie Lack is proving himself to be quite a good goaltender and is only getting better. This could be of significance because it may provide more options for Gillis to explore. If Lack puts together great games in Chicago, MG may become more accepting to offers for Schneider. This would be key as Schneider would bring better returns and open doors for more bidding wars. A play for a Bobby Ryan may become a possibility.
I believe Lou can get us there. It's whether or not the fans will accept him back in the number one role. I know the fans do not run the team, but in a way they kind of assist in decisions. No player wants to be booedon a nightly basis and be kept under a microscope on a nightly basis. The pressure becomes immense and sooner or later it becomes too much. I believe this is what has happened to Lou. I say we get behind this team no matter what the circumstances and give them our full support.


Personally I dont believe Luongo can get us there. In my opinion our 2011 run was an anomaly. Without the 3-0 series lead we had against Chicago we would have been out in the first round and that was largely due to Luongo's annually inconsistent playoff performance.
The Canucks have been PT winners for 2 years in a row, we lost convincingly in the first round of 2012 and were 1 goal away from losing in the first round of 2011.
Luongo has been very good in some series but is simply too fragile to go all the way, and I'm aware that we were "one game away from the cup". As I said earlier, it was an anomaly. We narrowly defeated Chicago after having a huge lead. We had a long series against Nashville who barely score any goals ever. We made reasonably short work of San Jose who were quite injured, are never that good in playoffs, and had the misfortune of losing the series because of our lucky stanchion. We didn't score enough against Boston but on the other hand, we would've needed to score a ton to overcome Luongo during his bad games.
3 playoff years in a row where at some point Luongo gets scored on from every angle in multiple games. You can only blame the team's lack of scoring and injuries so much before you realize that he is the common denominator in all of our recent playoff failures.
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#170 Lui's Knob

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

Gillis has till November 2nd to trade him or wait until the deadline and reap a grand reward for Luongo then...

-Toronto, Columbus, New Jersey (if Brodeur is injured), and Florida are my picks...
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#171 Boudrias

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:33 PM

Will Lui attend the Canucks training camp if a CBA deal is done? What I'm wondering is how much the GM's were talking during the lockout. How much will the compressed season weigh on trade negociations?
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#172 Strawberries

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

I thought we were all talking about goats now.


Speaking of which did you guys hear about booth.. :bigblush:
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#173 Garrison

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

So with hopefully the regular season starting soon. are you guys expecting a Luongo trade? Or an Edler extension?
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#174 smurf47

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

So with hopefully the regular season starting soon. are you guys expecting a Luongo trade? Or an Edler extension?

both !
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#175 RunningWild

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

So this new NHL proposal looks pretty good for a Luongo trade, esp. the salary/trade stipulation. Wonder if Aquilini was working hard behind the scenes? lol.

If Van can absorb some salary, I can see more teams knocking on the door. Gillis also won't be pressured to make an immediate trade if the cap is still set at $70M.

The one concern is this: Article

There is transition language in the offer to penalize some of those "cheat deals" or "back-diving" deals, contracts like those of Marian Hossa or Roberto Luongo that end with bogus salaries.


Not sure what this means. Haven't hear any details about what that looks like.

Edited by RunningWild, 16 October 2012 - 07:53 PM.

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#176 Tru_Knyte

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

Reimer in Vancouver for the charity game, testing out the waters perhaps? :P
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#177 zombieksa

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:18 PM

Take this for what it is worth, I don't really care if you guys believe me or not:

So I go to the U of Windsor and am in my MBA, today we had a guest speaker on leadership skills...

Richard Peddie, former president and CEO of the MLSE, he is UofW alumni. His speech was pretty interesting, and he made some jokes at Brian Burke's expense. (I guess BB is going to be coming to campus in February, a speech I will not be missing.) One funny story was that when BB first came to Toronto Peddie had the luxury of giving BB his first performance review, Burke laughed in his face and said he hadn't had a performance review since he was in Law school, Peddie said to him that he probably should have. Now they are great friends, hang out a few times a month, and Peddie still has knowledge on the running and management of the leafs.

After his speech he was talking to students and I pretty much said, "great speech, and It is really nice to meet you, but I want to talk hockey." he laughed and essentially said Burke has 2 strong offers for Lu, one involving and one not involving "a very valuable" non-player asset.(My speculation is 1st rounder) He believes they will have Luongo on the team come season start, and had very high praise for Lu which was nice to hear. He was also very excited today as the NHL offer had just been made out to the public about an hour prior to his talk.

So take that for what its worth, I wouldn't lie, but he may have.
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#178 mr_long1990

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:25 PM

If Reimer and Luongo do switch teams, I wouldn't mind considering Reimer's my favourite Leaf right now.
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JOE THORNTON 19

#179 sampy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:37 PM

Gillis has till November 2nd to trade him or wait until the deadline and reap a grand reward for Luongo then...

-Toronto, Columbus, New Jersey (if Brodeur is injured), and Florida are my picks...



There's a lot more teams with questionable goaltending. On top of Columbus, Florida, NJ and Toronto you could also arguably add Edmonton, San Jose, Chicago, NYI, TB, Philly, Washington, Ottawa and Detroit.
That's 13 teams with questionable goaltending. Even if half of the teams get solid goaltending, that leaves the other half fighting for a very thin goaltending market. There will be 1 team that will meet MG's high demands and satisfy Luongo. I'm sure he'd be far less picky if he had to come back into the Vancouver spotlight as a backup.


Here's a good point of view on Hockey Insiders site (yeah yeah I know, not a source, just opinion):
http://www.insiderru...ks-makes-sense/

Thinks this is a fair trade for both sides:

To SJ: Roberto Luongo and a Mason Raymond

To VAN: Antti Niemi, Ryane Clowe and a 2nd round pick


Edited by sampy, 16 October 2012 - 08:45 PM.

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#180 RunningWild

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie



The floor for this season would be $43.9M and cap would be $59.9M altho in Year 1 teams could still spend to $70.2M but only in Year 1. On trading of cap space/retaining salary, it would be limited to $3M for each contract year left or 50 per cent of AAV, whichever is less. Each club, in any given year, tho, would be subject to a 2 contract and/or $5M limit in terms of retaining salary.


This stipulation could make Lu much more attractive to certain teams, like Florida. They'd only have to pay him $3.714M of salary next year. They're paying Theodore $1.5M salary next season. Assuming they offload him, the difference for yr 1 would be about $2M.

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

Or so I've been led to believe. It's late, stuff is complicated, imagine all details likely to be out there tomorrow. G'nite.


Bombshell!

Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit


Can you imagine Luongo gets traded to the Leafs. He retires in 5 yrs. His cap hit is still applied against Canucks till his contract is over. Not cool. Not cool at all.

Edited by RunningWild, 16 October 2012 - 09:12 PM.

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