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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#1801 Riviera82

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Neither Bryzgalov nor Fleury looked particularly good in this years' playoffs.

But honestly, when it's a 7-0, 8-0 affair, is it really the goalie, or has the team simply quit after being down? My guess is that with this bunch, it's far more likely to be the latter.


Bryzgalov I dont believe was ever branded as elite like Luongo is.
I'm not sure how many people consider Fleury to be elite. He has been good enough though to be in consecutive SCFs and win one however.
If the team has quit on Luongo when he's being a sieve in important playoff games, can you really blame them? Maybe when they are not on the verge of being eliminated they think they should save their energy for the next game.
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#1802 Riviera82

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

Kassian is just another big strong forward with the mythical Milan Lucic potential card attached to him - what's your point?

Not sure what your expectations are out of trading Luongo, but if we're able to get a top-10 pick from 3 years ago, who's put up good numbers in the AHL, and who would definitely be much more highly regarded if he was on any other team but Toronto, that's a pretty big win, in my books.


Why would Kadri be good for the Canucks if he cant even make it on a loser team like the Maple Leafs?
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#1803 70seven

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:14 AM

I kinda like this rumored Kadri + Bozak deal.

With the uncertainty of how Kesler will perform after shoulder surgeory, and the lack of depth at center, this move gives us a guy in Bozak who can easily look solid in a 2nd or 3rd line role. I dont think he has peaked as a pro just yet, and could very well put up 50-60 points anually, given the right linemates, and really fills a need for the club right away. He's also known for being of strong character, and is a former colligate player, so I can see why Gillis would want him in the package. I actually think that Chris Higgins is a fair comparable to Bozaks skill set.





With Kadri comes some high end offensive potential. If obtained, I would be comfortable in saying he would immediatley be the best stick handler in the entire organization. This kid has some slick ars hands, and with some confidence could very well develop in to a Marty St.Louis type player. Though he isnt the biggest of players, which seems to worry some fans, when you look at our most recent draft picks and top prospects (Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, etc), we should be just fine in the size department in the future, and could use some more skill as the time is nearing for the twins to hang em up, or possibly return to the SEL before they retire.

Id also be very interested to see a Wolves line of Kadri - Schroeder - Kassian.




#getrdone
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#1804 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

Not sure what your expectations are out of trading Luongo, but if we're able to get a top-10 pick from 3 years ago, who's put up good numbers in the AHL, and who would definitely be much more highly regarded if he was on any other team but Toronto, that's a pretty big win, in my books.


I'd take Colborne over Kadri.

regards,
G.
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#1805 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:05 AM

I kinda like this rumored Kadri + Bozak deal.

With the uncertainty of how Kesler will perform after shoulder surgeory, and the lack of depth at center, this move gives us a guy in Bozak who can easily look solid in a 2nd or 3rd line role. I dont think he has peaked as a pro just yet, and could very well put up 50-60 points anually, given the right linemates, and really fills a need for the club right away. He's also known for being of strong character, and is a former colligate player, so I can see why Gillis would want him in the package. I actually think that Chris Higgins is a fair comparable to Bozaks skill set.


I dislike the deal. First of all, if that is the total package then it is an underpayment.

I also do not believe that Kadri will be a good fit here. I would prefer that Gillis went after Colborne if he was going to try and get a young center from the Leafs. He's more in line with the bigger, stronger team with which Gillis looks to be going. Will he likely get as many points as Kadri? Perhaps not, but I believe he'll do well as an eventual 2C, which is probably Kadri's ceiling here.

There are a number of positives with Bozak. The issue I have with him is that he will be a UFA at the end of this season. Assuming there is a season this season, it would be like Gillis got a slightly longer term rental player (a couple of months, if that). If he walks at the end of the season, then the deal becomes Luongo for Kadri, which would make it even more of an underpayment on the part of the Leafs. If a guy like Bozak is in any Luongo deal, I suspect Gillis will require that he can negotiate an extension before accepting him.

IMO any deal with the Leafs, as things currently stand, will be for futures: Biggs, Colborne, 1st (2013 or 2014, Burke's choice), Franson's contract.

regards,
G.
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#1806 D-Money

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:17 AM

I'd take Colborne over Kadri.

regards,
G.


Not me. Colborne doesn't use his size to any advantage, and Kadri is far more offensively gifted.

Colborne's AHL stats: 165 GP (inc playoffs), 39 goals (.24/g), 97 points (.59/g)
Kadri's: 94 GP, 40 goals (.43/g), 106 points (1.13/g)

Just for comparison's sake, here's Schroeder's: 192 GP, 47 goals (.24/g), 107 points (.56/g)

We desperately need a center who has shown that he has the ability to produce as a top-6 player at the NHL level. I don't think Colborne (or Schroeder, for that matter) have shown that at all. Whereas Kadri most certainly has.
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#1807 sampy

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

I'd take Colborne over Kadri.

regards,
G.

Definately no on Colbourne. After watching some Marlies game, the guy is Taylor Pyatt 2.0 at best. Ray Ferraro on 1040 said that big Joe plays like he's small Joe and that Bozak is a far superior player.
Biggs on the other hand...
I really want Rielly in a bigger trade but I know I am kinda dreaming. JVR would be nice as well.

Edited by sampy, 01 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.

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#1808 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:43 AM

Not me. Colborne doesn't use his size to any advantage, and Kadri is far more offensively gifted.

Colborne's AHL stats: 165 GP (inc playoffs), 39 goals (.24/g), 97 points (.59/g)
Kadri's: 94 GP, 40 goals (.43/g), 106 points (1.13/g)

Just for comparison's sake, here's Schroeder's: 192 GP, 47 goals (.24/g), 107 points (.56/g)

We desperately need a center who has shown that he has the ability to produce as a top-6 player at the NHL level. I don't think Colborne (or Schroeder, for that matter) have shown that at all. Whereas Kadri most certainly has.


Better check your Kadri stats. Kadri has played 121 games and has 106 points(.88/g)
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#1809 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

Why would Kadri be good for the Canucks if he cant even make it on a loser team like the Maple Leafs?


Why would Bjugstad be a good fit for the Canucks if he can't even make it on a loser team like the Panthers? Same logic.

Besides, him "not making the team" could well have been strategic. Wait until he's a little more seasoned - and when the Leafs might have a realistic shot at the playoffs - to burn those ELC years.
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#1810 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

Kadri is just another small soft forward with the mythical good potential card attached to him. The Canucks dont need that kind of player, they need a good greasy big forward who can score and bust teeth when called upon. Red flags are up when Kadri came into camp with big body fat after going on the great Gary Roberts plan in the summer. There is a reason most leaf fans want him in a trade for Luongo, they know he is a bust.


Well I re-call trading Coho for one not that long back? and I also remember a ton of a crying from CDC about it, so of which still continues today.

We drafted Gaunce, Mallet and more. We dedicated our last draft to big players, so to a get a high skill player like Kadri who is just waiting for a fair chance is good for us right now.

Bryzgalov I dont believe was ever branded as elite like Luongo is.
I'm not sure how many people consider Fleury to be elite. He has been good enough though to be in consecutive SCFs and win one however.
If the team has quit on Luongo when he's being a sieve in important playoff games, can you really blame them? Maybe when they are not on the verge of being eliminated they think they should save their energy for the next game.


Fleury was definetly considered Elitle, him and Lu are in the same boat in that respect.

Why would Kadri be good for the Canucks if he cant even make it on a loser team like the Maple Leafs?


We would give him a fair chance, something Toronto didn't and with our current need of a top 6 forward he will be given a very good shot to take that over and he has the offensive skills to do it,

Plus getting him would instantly boost major our prospect cupboard.

I'd take Colborne over Kadri.

regards,
G.


I wouldn't, after watching a few Marlies games I can tell you that Colbourne looks like a confused bear. He doesn't use his size well, doesn't bring a ton of offense. To me he seems like he will become a big 3rd line center, basicly the next Brian Boyle.

I hope he has picked it up for his sake, but I would rather have Kadri.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 01 December 2012 - 11:57 AM.

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#1811 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:03 PM

Kassian is just another big strong forward with the mythical Milan Lucic potential card attached to him - what's your point?

Not sure what your expectations are out of trading Luongo, but if we're able to get a top-10 pick from 3 years ago, who's put up good numbers in the AHL, and who would definitely be much more highly regarded if he was on any other team but Toronto, that's a pretty big win, in my books.


The Law of Success requires buying low, selling high. Luongo's market value is apparently low while Schneider's value is apparently high.
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#1812 surtur

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

Why would Bjugstad be a good fit for the Canucks if he can't even make it on a loser team like the Panthers? Same logic.

Besides, him "not making the team" could well have been strategic. Wait until he's a little more seasoned - and when the Leafs might have a realistic shot at the playoffs - to burn those ELC years.

unless he leaves school he can not play on the team, he has never tried to make it on the panthers.
So bad comparison.

Edited by surtur, 01 December 2012 - 12:48 PM.

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#1813 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

Are you saying that you'd rather have Luke Schenn?

:bigblush:


wow, you read my mind King.
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#1814 ice orca

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

Kassian is just another big strong forward with the mythical Milan Lucic potential card attached to him - what's your point?

Not sure what your expectations are out of trading Luongo, but if we're able to get a top-10 pick from 3 years ago, who's put up good numbers in the AHL, and who would definitely be much more highly regarded if he was on any other team but Toronto, that's a pretty big win, in my books.

King101..deflect deflect. The last thing this team needs is more ragdolls on it.
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#1815 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

The Law of Success requires buying low, selling high. Luongo's market value is apparently low while Schneider's value is apparently high.


Well with Luongo we are apperently the opposite, we bought high and we are going to sell low.

Kadri and Bozak may not be a home run but that's not terrible for us.
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#1816 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:57 PM

Not me. Colborne doesn't use his size to any advantage, and Kadri is far more offensively gifted.

Colborne's AHL stats: 165 GP (inc playoffs), 39 goals (.24/g), 97 points (.59/g)
Kadri's: 94 GP, 40 goals (.43/g), 106 points (1.13/g)

Just for comparison's sake, here's Schroeder's: 192 GP, 47 goals (.24/g), 107 points (.56/g)

We desperately need a center who has shown that he has the ability to produce as a top-6 player at the NHL level. I don't think Colborne (or Schroeder, for that matter) have shown that at all. Whereas Kadri most certainly has.


Definately no on Colbourne. After watching some Marlies game, the guy is Taylor Pyatt 2.0 at best. Ray Ferraro on 1040 said that big Joe plays like he's small Joe and that Bozak is a far superior player.


I wouldn't, after watching a few Marlies games I can tell you that Colbourne looks like a confused bear. He doesn't use his size well, doesn't bring a ton of offense. To me he seems like he will become a big 3rd line center, basicly the next Brian Boyle.

I hope he has picked it up for his sake, but I would rather have Kadri.


Interesting. I've read, seen heard various comments about Colborne (and even seen a couple of Marlies games) and the general trend I was getting is that he was improving from previous seasons.

True, he is not a punishing physical player (yet), but I was hearing that he is doing some things well like using his size to protect the puck.

Meh, if anyone doesn't want him, feel free to insert Ashton in his place. I'll be as happy. :)

However, I'm still not sold on Kadri.


regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 01 December 2012 - 01:58 PM.

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#1817 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

The Law of Success requires buying low, selling high. Luongo's market value is apparently low while Schneider's value is apparently high.


What's your point?
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#1818 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

King101..deflect deflect. The last thing this team needs is more ragdolls on it.


If the rag-doll can score, I want him on my team. Toughness can and should be addressed elsewhere - like the 4th line. It's not a coincidence that it's always a Canuck that seems to be on the receiving end of a cheap shot. No toughness, no respect.
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#1819 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

I think if this rumour is the actual trade and Bozak refuses to re-sign with us, we should pull for a conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bozak re-signs with us.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1820 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

Kadri is just another small soft forward with the mythical good potential card attached to him. The Canucks dont need that kind of player, they need a good greasy big forward who can score and bust teeth when called upon. Red flags are up when Kadri came into camp with big body fat after going on the great Gary Roberts plan in the summer. There is a reason most leaf fans want him in a trade for Luongo, they know he is a bust.


We have Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen moving forward. After the Sedins move on or retire Kesler and Burrows will likely still be around too. In my books thats 5 greasy/big body/grinder/ two way forwards, whichever category they fit into individually. Tell me, which one of those 5 is our playmaker?

Everybody is on the get bigger, get tougher train in Vancouver including myself, and for good reason after meeting Boston and LA in the playoffs. That however, doesn't mean every single player on the team has to fit that mold. Kadri would be the most purely skilled player out of that group of 5 I mentioned (with the exception of Jensen who "might" be a more natural finisher)

While everybody is complaining about Kadri he still just keeps putting up points. Now he may not actually pan out and be our first line center in the future, but he is our best option in a Luongo trade as far as we know. I just don't understand peoples rational here sometimes. "Get Bozak, we need a third line center, Kadri might not even make our team for ONE WHOLE YEAR he must be useless" "Kadri is 5 pounds overweight I don't care that he gets more points than everyone else, get Joe Colborne hes like 7 feet tall!"

Edit: For all the people complaining about him not coming into camp in the best shape, how many people still think he's over weight a couple months into the season? The Canucks are known for having some of the highest fitness standards in the league, maybe Toronto should take a lesson. Yeah Wellwood was fat too, BEFORE he came to Vancouver. Once he came to Vancouver there wasn't an issue after just a few weeks. I have faith in Vancouvers training staff, regardless of which player that refers to.

Edited by TmanVan, 01 December 2012 - 03:17 PM.

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#1821 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:16 PM

I think if this rumour is the actual trade and Bozak refuses to re-sign with us, we should pull for a conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bozak re-signs with us.


That's a great idea.


The rumoured deal:

Kadri, Bozak (Condidtional 2nd) for Luongo.


My Trade:

Bozak, Biggs, 2nd (Conditional 3rd or 4th) for Luongo, 5th.
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#1822 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:19 PM

I think if this rumour is the actual trade and Bozak refuses to re-sign with us, we should pull for a conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bozak re-signs with us.


Haha I don't think Burke would go for that... If you were Mike Gillis and could get a first round pick would you try to re-sign Bozak? B)
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#1823 westcoast

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

Not a fan of the rumored deal.
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#1824 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

Haha I don't think Burke would go for that... If you were Mike Gillis and could get a first round pick would you try to re-sign Bozak? B)

Nope :P Just to screw with Burkie :lol: But the 1st or 2nd would have to be a 2014 1st or 2nd.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1825 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

We have Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen moving forward. After the Sedins move on or retire Kesler and Burrows will likely still be around too. In my books thats 5 greasy/big body/grinder/ two way forwards, whichever category they fit into individually. Tell me, which one of those 5 is our playmaker?

Everybody is on the get bigger, get tougher train in Vancouver including myself, and for good reason after meeting Boston and LA in the playoffs. That however, doesn't mean every single player on the team has to fit that mold. Kadri would be the most purely skilled player out of that group of 5 I mentioned (with the exception of Jensen who "might" be a more natural finisher)

While everybody is complaining about Kadri he still just keeps putting up points. Now he may not actually pan out and be our first line center in the future, but he is our best option in a Luongo trade as far as we know. I just don't understand peoples rational here sometimes. "Get Bozak, we need a third line center, Kadri might not even make our team for ONE WHOLE YEAR he must be useless" "Kadri is 5 pounds overweight I don't care that he gets more points than everyone else, get Joe Colborne hes like 7 feet tall!"

Edit: For all the people complaining about him not coming into camp in the best shape, how many people still think he's over weight a couple months into the season? The Canucks are known for having some of the highest fitness standards in the league, maybe Toronto should take a lesson. Yeah Wellwood was fat too, BEFORE he came to Vancouver. Once he came to Vancouver there wasn't an issue after just a few weeks. I have faith in Vancouvers training staff, regardless of which player that refers to.


No matter how you slice it; our agenda is a roster player who helps now, a stud young player AND futures. And either the futures or the young player has to be a serious blue chip lock. We need to be able to project 4 years from now both being competitive for us and one a team leader. Lou was hands down our best player for 2 to 3 years and at or close to all star level for 5 of his 6 years. .We need meat back, not just gravy...

- Bozak, the longer the lockout runs, the less useful he has in the conversation. Franson and Kulemin are alternates here and effectively Colburne (useful but certainly not a top flight young gun).
- Kadri could qualify as the young player, but can T.O. afford to give up its top young centre?
- What we really want is Gardiner or a top 2013 pick. Alternately TWO mid tier prospects prospects likely to make it. Biggs and Ashton.

So if the Leafs run with Reilly (their "top pick in the draft"), Gardiner is fine with Bozak and Colburne, as Gardiner is a headline pickup. But without Gardiner (more likely);

What we ask for and will get is (pick two of these three) Kadri, Ashton and Biggs PLUS their choice of Colburne and Franson. Happy to send secondaries back as balance (Connauton if Gardiner, Schroeder if Kadri or Colburne, Raymond...).

Mark it here? Deal will be Ashton, Biggs and Franson.

2 years from now

Danny / Hank/ Kass
Jensen / Kess / Biggs
Burrows / Gaunce / Ashton

Looks pretty good!




Interesting. I've read, seen heard various comments about Colborne (and even seen a couple of Marlies games) and the general trend I was getting is that he was improving from previous seasons.

True, he is not a punishing physical player (yet), but I was hearing that he is doing some things well like using his size to protect the puck.

Meh, if anyone doesn't want him, feel free to insert Ashton in his place. I'll be as happy. :)

However, I'm still not sold on Kadri.


regards,
G.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 01 December 2012 - 04:02 PM.

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#1826 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

Nope :P Just to screw with Burkie :lol: But the 1st or 2nd would have to be a 2014 1st or 2nd.


I swear Brian, we tried everything we could to get Bozak to stay..... we think he is an integral part of this team moving forward, but his heart was elsewhere..... now give us that 1st rounder ya idiot.
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#1827 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

No matter how you slice it; our agenda is a roster player who helps now, a stud young player AND futures. And either the futures or the young player has to be a serious blue chip lock. We need to be able to project 4 years from now both being competitive for us and one a team leader. Lou was hands down our best player for 2 to 3 years and at or close to all star level for 5 of his 6 years. .We need meat back, not just gravy...

- Bozak, the longer the lockout runs, the less useful he has in the conversation. Franson and Kulemin are alternates here and effectively Colburne (useful but certainly not a top flight young gun).
- Kadri could qualify as the young player, but can T.O. afford to give up its top young centre?
- What we really want is Gardiner or a top 2013 pick. Alternately TWO mid tier prospects prospects likely to make it. Biggs and Ashton.

So if the Leafs run with Reilly (their "top pick in the draft"), Gardiner is fine with Bozak and Colburne, as Gardiner is a headline pickup. But without Gardiner (more likely);

What we want and will get is (pick two of these three) Kadri, Aston and Biggs PLUS their choice of Colburne and Franson. Happy to send secondaries back as balance (Connauton if Gardiner, Schroeder if Kadri or Colburne, Raymond...).

Mark it here?


I would personally take Kadri and Biggs if it were up to me. That might not fit into the structure you laid out of also needing a player to help us NOW, but is Bozak a difference maker anyways? Give me the potential of Kadri and Biggs over the very slight upgrade Bozak might give us over Lapierre/Malhotra for half a season.
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#1828 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

I would personally take Kadri and Biggs if it were up to me. That might not fit into the structure you laid out of also needing a player to help us NOW, but is Bozak a difference maker anyways? Give me the potential of Kadri and Biggs over the very slight upgrade Bozak might give us over Lapierre/Malhotra for half a season.


Yeah, and there's only one roadblock to that dream: the Toronto Maple Leafs.
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#1829 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

No matter how you slice it; our agenda is a roster player who helps now, a stud young player AND futures. And either the futures or the young player has to be a serious blue chip lock. We need to be able to project 4 years from now both being competitive for us and one a team leader. Lou was hands down our best player for 2 to 3 years and at or close to all star level for 5 of his 6 years. .We need meat back, not just gravy...

- Bozak, the longer the lockout runs, the less useful he has in the conversation. Franson and Kulemin are alternates here and effectively Colburne (useful but certainly not a top flight young gun).
- Kadri could qualify as the young player, but can T.O. afford to give up its top young centre?
- What we really want is Gardiner or a top 2013 pick. Alternately TWO mid tier prospects prospects likely to make it. Biggs and Ashton.

So if the Leafs run with Reilly (their "top pick in the draft"), Gardiner is fine with Bozak and Colburne, as Gardiner is a headline pickup. But without Gardiner (more likely);

What we ask for and will get is (pick two of these three) Kadri, Ashton and Biggs PLUS their choice of Colburne and Franson. Happy to send secondaries back as balance (Connauton if Gardiner, Schroeder if Kadri or Colburne, Raymond...).

Mark it here? Deal will be Ashton, Biggs and Franson.

2 years from now

Danny / Hank/ Kass
Jensen / Kess / Biggs
Burrows / Gaunce / Ashton

Looks pretty good!

That top nine looks sexy. However like TmanVan I'd take Kadri instead of Ashton

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Kadri
Jensen - Gaunce - Biggs

Then plug in some free agents and other prospects and we are golden! :towel:
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1830 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

I think if this rumour is the actual trade and Bozak refuses to re-sign with us, we should pull for a conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bozak re-signs with us.


I swear Brian, we tried everything we could to get Bozak to stay..... we think he is an integral part of this team moving forward, but his heart was elsewhere..... now give us that 1st rounder ya idiot.


Then it would have to be a 2014 pick we are speaking of, as the draft comes prior to him hitting UFA status, yes?

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 01 December 2012 - 04:11 PM.

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