King of the ES Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 If Campbell's numbers declined in Chicago and rose again in Florida by becoming the number one guy again, and if this could be the case for Lecavalier too if traded to a team where he would again find himself as the number one guy, perhaps Luongo could become the number one again if Schneider is traded... No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I agree with this strongly. I would like to continue debating and discussing the Luongo trade scenario, but I had to drop out back in the 2.0 thread because it descended into this endless pissing match between two particular posters, both intent on being the only right one. On any other message board I frequent, the mods would have stepped in by now and told two squabbling, dominating parties to take it to a private email discussion. I don't know why that doesn't happen around here, but, as Vonnegut would say, So It Goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Ironically enough, it gave me more time to myself once I ignored all the side discussion rather than get drawn into it. I realized that after the Shea Weber offer sheet thread. Aaaand back to stuff on topic about Luongo instead of Lecavalier, Paajarvi or Phaneuf, thank goodness. While I agree Scrivens and Markstrom aren't necessarily looking like goalies of the future, Lack is only a few spots above Scrivens in the rankings. Granted, we have Schneider ready to go to replace Luongo where the Leafs and Panthers are putting a little more hope on Scrivens and Markstrom, but the AHL is a little strange this year with teams carrying more players and having different rosters that change up a little each night as players rotate in and out. Having said that, I don't think Florida or Toronto are set by any means in goal, and the rumours that they'd be involved in a Luongo deal affirm that. I'm not sure if that'll do much of anything to improve the return, unless it somehow turns into a bidding war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I think Gillis held onto Schneider for as long as he did because Luongo cant consistently get it done in the playoffs. Schneider had shown great strength in goal for the last 2 seasons, so it stands to reason that he could be a good option in the playoffs if Luongo faltered again, which some might say he did against LA. It was unfortunate we couldn't score 2 goals a game for Cory because that's all he would've needed. There is nothing really to complain about regarding Luongo's regular seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Maybe they look at his production: 112 GP, 3 G, 14 P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Gillis held on to Schneider to let him mature into the goaltender he is. It happens to have worked out so well that Gillis now finds himself in a position of strength with difficult choices to make. The Canucks' goaltenders will surely help him make those decisions once hockey starts up again. This team is build on the Detroit blueprint: patience, loyalty and commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Not his fault AV has the reins on him. If he tries to join the rush he's benched and in the press box for 2 weeks. But when Jamie Mcguinn was decimating our entire defense in the cup run, Keith Ballard ended him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Gillis is not in a position of strength. The whole world (except for you, evidently) knows that he's shown his hand and is going to be trading Luongo. That clearly affects his bargaining position. I would love it if somehow this whole thing was a grand hoodwink by Gillis & Luongo, and the Canucks end up trading Schneider for some serious, immediate help, but I think that's pretty unlikely, close to a zero probability event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 If we have Edler, why would we want Phaneuf? That's kinda like asking "if we have Daniel, why would we want Henrik?" Gee, I don't know, maybe because he's a very, very good defenceman that would bring something to this team which it sorely lacks - and which absolutely differentiates him from Bambi Edler - a mean streak. Edler/Phaneuf top pairing would be our Weber/Suter. If we could somehow turn a backup goaltender into a top-pairing defenceman, that would be an undeniable major victory by our GM. I don't think that it's going to happen, but it would be incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Come on. Stop and think about what you're saying. AV has absolutely zero incentive to hold back Keith Ballard, in any way. Why would he possibly hold back Keith Ballard? How could he, or the team, benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I think there is an interesting point to be suggested in these three threads; a possible functional role for Ballard? Between these points; advanced skating ability, an underrated grittiness going after offenders on another team, a not mentioned skill as a superb shot blocker, the hip checking... Is a superb complimentary player! It is best noted by the observation that Ballard plays well with the steady Tanev, which allows Ballard the ability to do some roaming with his speed, take someone out of the game with a hip check or lay down and block a shot. What is common to all these activities is they involve risk, as there is a chance of being out of positio; hence being effective when paired with a steady positional player. In short Ballard brings a lot; but only if a counter balance covers his tail; which he has rarely been afforded here (and as mush as Tanev can offer, 178 lbs can only cover so much?). And originally (I am sure of it); the concept was that Ballard would succeed Erhoff as the guy who rushed the puck out pressure for us when his contract expired. I like the suggestion of playing Ballard with Garrison. Ballard could do all these things, and still drop the puck back for that big booming shot. It would pair our fastest and biggest defenders together adding an element that physically could not match with any other pairing, and our biggest shot! I think that alone would be very exciting to watch... People forget that hockey is a physical game where size, power, a big shot and speed create problems for opponents. This is the secret to unlocking Ballard! And behind (or in front in reality) the scene. Edler is good enough to be successful on his own, and at 217 lbs, he could be the size in a pairing with Tanev (whose passing would help shifts with the Twins and Edler). To the thread; we could concentrate on moving Lou for a big centreman and a prospect? It is well noted Ballard actually has some great tools, his skating ability is IMO easliy the best on our blueline, he is smarter offensively than he has been given credit for. Personally if our PP Strugles I would give him a shot on the PP, even on the 1st unit with Eddie or Garrison. His skating ability could really help the break-out and entering there zone, something that was an issue last season, plus he is good at jumping into the rush, then in the zone he is smart enough and has enough skill that he wouldn't be a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ah, but that's where not only I differ from your opinion on this, but so do others who would be much more active in threads like these (and the boards in general) if it wasn't for all the back and forth that accomplishes so little. Why do you think people complain about the people posting on these boards, it's not just for the people who seem to be all of 12 years old. There is no board rule saying discussions should only be useful, but certainly there are that the thread should stay on topic and there have been multiple times that the discussion has denigrated into the forum equivalent of a shouting match, and that's not what many would see as helpful, useful, reasonable, intelligent or any other kind of discussion. I'm happily continuing the discussion with those that are doing so and actually seem to be interested in actual discussion. Many of those same people also are a part of the group wanting to continue discussion with King, but I don't hold that against them. they all seem to be reasonable, as have you been for the most part, but it'd be nice to say we can continue that trend rather than lapse back into the shouting matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 There are literally zero reference legs for you to stand on in saying that Jason Garrison is better than Dion Phaneuf. I can suggest that Tyler Bozak is a better player than Ryan Kesler, and it would be of roughly equal credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Gillis held on to Schneider to let him mature into the goaltender he is. It happens to have worked out so well that Gillis now finds himself in a position of strength with difficult choices to make. The Canucks' goaltenders will surely help him make those decisions once hockey starts up again. This team is build on the Detroit blueprint: patience, loyalty and commitment. The Canucks patiently groomed Schneider into a potential 1G, are patiently weighing their options concerning goaltending, they have been loyal to every member of the team if they do not commit to the program, they are promptly disposed of: Matthieu Schneider (ego), Torres (on-ice discipline), O'Brien (on-ice, off-ice discipline), Salo and Ehrhoff (contractual term) did not fit the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Gillis is not in a position of strength. The whole world (except for you, evidently) knows that he's shown his hand and is going to be trading Luongo. That clearly affects his bargaining position. I would love it if somehow this whole thing was a grand hoodwink by Gillis & Luongo, and the Canucks end up trading Schneider for some serious, immediate help, but I think that's pretty unlikely, close to a zero probability event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Is a superb complimentary player! It is best noted by the observation that Ballard plays well with the steady Tanev, which allows Ballard the ability to do some roaming with his speed, take someone out of the game with a hip check or lay down and block a shot. What is common to all these activities is they involve risk, as there is a chance of being out of positio; hence being effective when paired with a steady positional player. In short Ballard brings a lot; but only if a counter balance covers his tail; which he has rarely been afforded here (and as mush as Tanev can offer, 178 lbs can only cover so much?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I would be greatly disappointed if this was a grand hoodwink, that would just leave us with Mr. Inconsistent in goal for the playoffs again plus whoever we got in return for Schneider. The Canucks have only broken through their 2nd round glass ceiling one time with Luongo and that very nearly turned into a disaster in round 1. Schneider very much appears to be the model of consistency we desperately need in the net. This team has not been able to count on Luongo on a game to game basis in the playoffs, why should that be any different with whoever would come here in a Schneider deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Explain to me how though when Bieksa, and Edler struggle mightly and become more inconsistent than Ballard, he doesn't give them less time? Just try to explain that one to me. If your gunna use the - Better you play, more icetime/worse you play less icetime mentality with Ballard, then why shouldn't he use it with others? And your blind if you think AV doesn't favour players, after you are done explain that you should also explain why Raymond was given countless chance after countless chance in the top 6, if you indeed believe AV doesn't favour players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Here are two reference points for you King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 That alone would be quite important to us. We would get a pretty good return if we traded Cory. Think of it this way: Lu + Cory's return, will most likely be better than, Cory plus Lu's return Of course it could go either way, but I think it's more likely this scenario happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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