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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#1861 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

You sure about that? Where are the other buyers for Luongo? What's driving his price up so high?

I'm not sure that you're aware of how markets work.

EDIT: we're not going to "win" this Luongo deal, in the traditional sense. Gillis made a decision to run with Schneider, instead of Luongo, and now he's effectively backed himself into a corner, and is required to sell Luongo into a weak market. Luongo is still a very good goalie, and will surely be the starter of whatever team he goes to for the next many years. We're not going to get somebody who's going to have as much of an impact on us as Luongo will to whoever he goes to, which I think you have yet to come to grips with.

Do you have insider info stating that Luongo won't get anything good? Or are you just talking out of your arse like you usually do? We don't know what Luongo will get, but what we do know, is that MG isn't going to give Luongo up for crap which you seem to think is what Lu will only get for some crazy reason.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1862 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

Hmmmm, Kadri with Marlies first goal and game winning overtime goal, now with 18 points in 20 games... man he looks fat though! ;)


and you forgot slow...

He scores some points. Great. Still don't think he's a very good fit for Vancouver (and certainly don't see him edging Kesler off the 2nd line). Drafting Gaunce imo makes adding a prospect like Colborne relatively unnecessary.
I'd rather see the Canucks add an actual third line center (and not underestimate Schroeder relative to a guy like Kadri - imo Schroeder's a better two way player with more grit and speed). I'd also like to see them pick up a RW - Frattin - I like the way he plays - he's an alert-minded, physical, NHL ready RW with good scoring sense - and a prospect - preferably another big, young physical forward who would balance out the prospect pool.

Bozak, Frattin, Biggs.

(if Burke doesn't like that deal, he's welcome to substitute Grabovski for Bozak...)

Edited by oldnews, 01 December 2012 - 08:33 PM.


#1863 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

You sure about that? Where are the other buyers for Luongo? What's driving his price up so high?

I'm not sure that you're aware of how markets work.

EDIT: we're not going to "win" this Luongo deal, in the traditional sense. Gillis made a decision to run with Schneider, instead of Luongo, and now he's effectively backed himself into a corner, and is required to sell Luongo into a weak market. Luongo is still a very good goalie, and will surely be the starter of whatever team he goes to for the next many years. We're not going to get somebody who's going to have as much of an impact on us as Luongo will to whoever he goes to, which I think you have yet to come to grips with.


Obviously we aren't going to win, we are giving up the best player in the trade.

But we will get something decent in return.

Bozak, Frattin, Biggs.


Seem's like a bit much to me, Frattin is really coveted by them, almost as much as Kadri, possibly more with the was they treat Nazem.

I think Kadri (Who can play wing), and Biggs. Before I wanted Bozak but now that this season will probably be wiped out he will be a UFA and he holds little value without a contract.

So how about Kadri and Biggs for Lu.

Kadri can play the wing on the 2nd line if he makes the team, or else if Kassian or someone else beats him for it, he and Schroeder can duke it out for 3C spot.

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#1864 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

Seem's like a bit much to me, Frattin is really coveted by them, almost as much as Kadri, possibly more with the was they treat Nazem.

I think Kadri (Who can play wing), and Biggs. Before I wanted Bozak but now that this season will probably be wiped out he will be a UFA and he holds little value without a contract.

So how about Kadri and Biggs for Lu.

Kadri can play the wing on the 2nd line if he makes the team, or else if Kassian or someone else beats him for it, he and Schroeder can duke it out for 3C spot.


Let Kadri play wing in Frattin's place then - (for the Leafs, and send Frattin this way).

The Leafs aren't weak on their wings - they have (the vastly over-rated) Kessel, Lupul, Van Reimsdyk, Kulemin, MacArthur... They can probably justify moving a young RW like Frattin moreso than one of their young centers - and with Ashton at RW, they can move the younger Biggs.
Bozak is actually a viable third line center option (Kadri creates another one-way third line center situation) - Bozak's term makes him an easier loss to Laff's nation - it also takes less value out of their end of the deal.

That deal sends a RW, center and prospect - that's the least I want out of a deal if it is to be with Toronto (it's difficult enough to find suitable pieces when dealing with them - and if anything, I think it's a concession considering Bozak's status). Perhaps they should have to throw in Franson's negotiating rights as well, which are worth about a 6th round pick - a depth guy to compete with Alberts, Connauton and Sauve for the 8th spot....
That deal might actually be preferable to the Leafs (they retain their skilled center prospect) - and it sends a couple players here who can compete for roster spots in the present. I know people think the 2nd line needs a "playmaker", but I like the idea of a physical guy, who is good on the rush, with a quick release like Frattin playing on that line.
If you look at what the Leafs got for Kaberle - (Colborne, the B's 2011 first, and 2012 2nd) - they should jump at this deal and consider it a wash for Kaberle...

Edited by oldnews, 01 December 2012 - 09:18 PM.


#1865 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

and you forgot slow...

He scores some points. Great. Still don't think he's a very good fit for Vancouver (and certainly don't see him edging Kesler off the 2nd line). Drafting Gaunce imo makes adding a prospect like Colborne relatively unnecessary.
I'd rather see the Canucks add an actual third line center (and not underestimate Schroeder relative to a guy like Kadri - imo Schroeder's a better two way player with more grit and speed). I'd also like to see them pick up a RW - Frattin - I like the way he plays - he's an alert-minded, physical, NHL ready RW with good scoring sense - and a prospect - preferably another big, young physical forward who would balance out the prospect pool.

Bozak, Frattin, Biggs.

(if Burke doesn't like that deal, he's welcome to substitute Grabovski for Bozak...)


You mean slow like the Sedins are accused of being? Or Hodgson? Wasn't that the knock on Gaunce too when he was drafted? Wasn't Bert always criticised for being too slow? If a 1st round pick has good hockey smarts, gifted hands, a natural scoring ability don't scouts always say " well..... his skating could be a little better" when they don't really have any other weakness to point out?

#1866 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

^
it was a joke.

Edited by oldnews, 01 December 2012 - 09:17 PM.


#1867 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

^
it was a joke.


ya it was sarcastic I know, but then you still went on to say why he's not a good fit, and said you prefer schroeder because he's faster :emot-parrot:

#1868 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

Good job starting pointless arguments though, its what you do best.


Not a pointless argument. I'm trying to get people to see it from Toronto's side. You folks have these "wants" from trading Luongo, and IMO they're usually not that close to reality.

Say the tables are turned. Vancouver now needs a goalie. Toronto has a 33 year-old, with a 10-year contract, and a shaky playoff reputation, that they need to get rid of. He's still good, but it is no doubt a huge commitment to take on.

Gillis offers Jordan Schroeder and Zack Kassian for this goaltender. How do you feel about it?

#1869 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

Not a pointless argument. I'm trying to get people to see it from Toronto's side. You folks have these "wants" from trading Luongo, and IMO they're usually not that close to reality.

Say the tables are turned. Vancouver now needs a goalie. Toronto has a 33 year-old, with a 10-year contract, and a shaky playoff reputation, that they need to get rid of. He's still good, but it is no doubt a huge commitment to take on.

Gillis offers Jordan Schroeder and Zack Kassian for this goaltender. How do you feel about it?

lol. Schroeder is arguably better than Kadri and Kassian is much better than Biggs. Again, another horrible comparison.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 01 December 2012 - 09:26 PM.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1870 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

Not a pointless argument. I'm trying to get people to see it from Toronto's side. You folks have these "wants" from trading Luongo, and IMO they're usually not that close to reality.

Say the tables are turned. Vancouver now needs a goalie. Toronto has a 33 year-old, with a 10-year contract, and a shaky playoff reputation, that they need to get rid of. He's still good, but it is no doubt a huge commitment to take on.

Gillis offers Jordan Schroeder and Zack Kassian for this goaltender. How do you feel about it?


Well, maybbe we could go back in time and offer them Patrick White, Nathan Smith, and Josh Holden, because they are all first round picks it would be insane for them not to accept this overpayment we are offering them.

#1871 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

ya it was sarcastic I know, but then you still went on to say why he's not a good fit, and said you prefer schroeder because he's faster :emot-parrot:


I like Schroeder because his game is being developed to play a role in Vancouver - his speed and the work he has done on his defensive game (with his offensive upside) make him a nice fit, imo, to play with Higgins and Hansen - I think he also has more grit than a guy like Kadri - that line could be even more effective (ie frustrating to play against) and as dangerous as it was last year with a player like Schroeder between H+H.

I don't consider Kadri to be as good a fit for those reasons - which is not to say he's not as talented - he simply is not that kind of role player, and the idea of him stepping onto the second line does nothing but create serious problems where Kesler is concerned - he already endured a year of a rookie thinking he deserved his minutes - imo, despite some opinions that he is just an average 2C, there are very few 2Cs on the planet that can compete with Kesler.

#1872 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

I like Schroeder because his game is being developed to play a role in Vancouver - his speed and the work he has done on his defensive game (with his offensive upside) make him a nice fit, imo, to play with Higgins and Hansen - I think he also has more grit than a guy like Kadri - that line could be even more effective (ie frustrating to play against) and as dangerous as it was last year with a player like Schroeder between H+H.

I don't consider Kadri to be as good a fit for those reasons - which is not to say he's not as talented - he simply is not that kind of role player, and the idea of him stepping onto the second line does nothing but create serious problems where Kesler is concerned - he already endured a year of a rookie thinking he deserved his minutes - imo, despite some opinions that he is just an average 2C, there are very few 2Cs on the planet that can compete with Kesler.


Completely agree! My only argument is that it would be dumb not to want Kadri just because he doesn't fit where you want him to at this exact moment. Also, these guys are professionals and most of them can shift between center and wing, wheather it be Kadri, Schroeder or Kesler. It never hurts to have too many centers. If you look at Philly when Richards and Carter were still there im pretty sure most of the guys in their top 6 could play center. They were moved to the wing, and played fine.

#1873 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

Not a pointless argument. I'm trying to get people to see it from Toronto's side. You folks have these "wants" from trading Luongo, and IMO they're usually not that close to reality.

Say the tables are turned. Vancouver now needs a goalie. Toronto has a 33 year-old, with a 10-year contract, and a shaky playoff reputation, that they need to get rid of. He's still good, but it is no doubt a huge commitment to take on.

Gillis offers Jordan Schroeder and Zack Kassian for this goaltender. How do you feel about it?


So the tables are turned - you're the Leafs and you want a 1st round pick (Colborne), a 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick for an aging 33 year old soon to be UFA blueliner (whose best days were clearly far behind him) in the form of Kaberle.
Oh, that's the price for a proven veteran who can help you in (or make) the playoffs?
In the end, Kaberle for Luongo.
The Leafs pull off a rare fleecing.

#1874 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

lol. Schroeder is arguably better than Kadri and Kassian is much better than Biggs. Again, another horrible comparison.


Schroeder was to be compared to Ashton, Kassian to Colbourne. Comparisons drawn from draft year/position. Really impossible to say that one player is "better" than another, at this point, since none are established NHLers.

Exchange Jensen for Kassian, than, whatever. Doesn't matter. Would you trade Schroeder & Jensen for the 33 year-old expensive goaltender that the Leafs need to get rid of?

#1875 TmanVan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

Schroeder was to be compared to Ashton, Kassian to Colbourne. Comparisons drawn from draft year/position. Really impossible to say that one player is "better" than another, at this point, since none are established NHLers.

Exchange Jensen for Kassian, than, whatever. Doesn't matter. Would you trade Schroeder & Jensen for the 33 year-old expensive goaltender that the Leafs need to get rid of?


I would trade Schroeder and Kassian for an all star goalie in his early 30's yes, if Schroeder and Kassian were the Canucks 4th and 5th best prospects and it barely effected our team, and that goalie we were aquiring was the only thing we needed to end an 8 year playoff drought.

#1876 WiDeN

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

You sure about that? Where are the other buyers for Luongo? What's driving his price up so high?

I'm not sure that you're aware of how markets work.

EDIT: we're not going to "win" this Luongo deal, in the traditional sense. Gillis made a decision to run with Schneider, instead of Luongo, and now he's effectively backed himself into a corner, and is required to sell Luongo into a weak market. Luongo is still a very good goalie, and will surely be the starter of whatever team he goes to for the next many years. We're not going to get somebody who's going to have as much of an impact on us as Luongo will to whoever he goes to, which I think you have yet to come to grips with.

Aside from their draft position, world junior appearances, and stats I don't think you know how to evaluate a player's value at all. This is evident by how almost all hockey minds disagree with you.

Well, maybbe we could go back in time and offer them Patrick White, Nathan Smith, and Josh Holden, because they are all first round picks it would be insane for them not to accept this overpayment we are offering them.

This is the perfect reply to King's stupid 1st round pick assessment of value.

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#1877 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

Let Kadri play wing in Frattin's place then - (for the Leafs, and send Frattin this way).

The Leafs aren't weak on their wings - they have (the vastly over-rated) Kessel, Lupul, Van Reimsdyk, Kulemin, MacArthur... They can probably justify moving a young RW like Frattin moreso than one of their young centers - and with Ashton at RW, they can move the younger Biggs.
Bozak is actually a viable third line center option (Kadri creates another one-way third line center situation) - Bozak's term makes him an easier loss to Laff's nation - it also takes less value out of their end of the deal.

That deal sends a RW, center and prospect - that's the least I want out of a deal if it is to be with Toronto (it's difficult enough to find suitable pieces when dealing with them - and if anything, I think it's a concession considering Bozak's status). Perhaps they should have to throw in Franson's negotiating rights as well, which are worth about a 6th round pick - a depth guy to compete with Alberts, Connauton and Sauve for the 8th spot....
That deal might actually be preferable to the Leafs (they retain their skilled center prospect) - and it sends a couple players here who can compete for roster spots in the present. I know people think the 2nd line needs a "playmaker", but I like the idea of a physical guy, who is good on the rush, with a quick release like Frattin playing on that line.
If you look at what the Leafs got for Kaberle - (Colborne, the B's 2011 first, and 2012 2nd) - they should jump at this deal and consider it a wash for Kaberle...


Why do they want to give up Frattin?

Kadri works out for them cause there are issue's there, and from our end it is always exciting getting a young player like that with that much skill & upside. They have a 3 Top 9 Center's (Grabo, Connolly, Lombardi) JVR is going to try center, and they still have Colbourne coming up, so the center thing isn't a big issue.

Bozak I have no problem with but he would have to be a throw in since odds are he will be a UFA anyways with the way the CBA is coming along.

Franson isn't a depth D-man and he is an RFA, his rights are worth much more than a 6th, more like a 2nd or 3rd. I think it would be better to get Biggs than Franson, we don't have a place for Franson in our line-up and he isn't a depth D-man like Alberts.


Kadri isn't the best fit here I agree with that, but I have a feeling he is just waiting to break-out and I want us to cash in on Toronto's mistakes. But the fact he can play center or wing makes him fit a bit better in our line-up if we do get him.

he's not as bad defensively as people think, he's pretty quick, great offensively, makes things happen, has magic hands, hits fairly well (atleast for his size), good stick checker. He just loses the puck cause he tries things, that's no different than anyone and it even happens to players on our team (Edler, Sedins, Bieksa) from time to time, but his situation is just over exploited because he is a high 1st Round pick from Toronto.

Here's the way I see it in terms of there prospects.


Players I don't really want: Colbourne, Ashton.

Players I want: Biggs.

Players I wouldn't mind: Kadri, Finn, Frattin.

So if we can get Biggs, hopefully a 1st or 2nd then either Bozak (if the season begins soon) or else maybe Franson/another decent prospect, I would be happy.

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#1878 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

Definately no on Colbourne. After watching some Marlies game, the guy is Taylor Pyatt 2.0 at best. Ray Ferraro on 1040 said that big Joe plays like he's small Joe and that Bozak is a far superior player.
Biggs on the other hand...
I really want Rielly in a bigger trade but I know I am kinda dreaming. JVR would be nice as well.


VAN
JVR
Rielly
Biggs

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
Tanev


#1879 sampy

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

lol. Schroeder is arguably better than Kadri and Kassian is much better than Biggs. Again, another horrible comparison.

To add...
Canucks gave up a top power forward, a 4th overall pick in Allen and a young starting goalie to get Lu.
Also, the Leafs have tried to plug the goaltending position with prospects for 10 years and had no success. This Burke's last year, management and fans want a sure bet starting goalie.


IMO the Canucks should add whatever it takes to get a young blue chip prospect in Kessel, Rielly, Gardiner or JVR.
My 2nd choice would be Bozak and 2 prospects from Biggs, Kadri and Frattin for Lu and whatever extra.
Canucks can't risk getting players that will not be on the team long term. If Burke doesn't want to give up one of his Blue Chips, then he needs to give a couple mid-tier prospects.

#1880 oldnews

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

Completely agree! My only argument is that it would be dumb not to want Kadri just because he doesn't fit where you want him to at this exact moment. Also, these guys are professionals and most of them can shift between center and wing, wheather it be Kadri, Schroeder or Kesler. It never hurts to have too many centers. If you look at Philly when Richards and Carter were still there im pretty sure most of the guys in their top 6 could play center. They were moved to the wing, and played fine.


Kadri is certainly not my idea of a top 6 RW - and I certainly don't move Kesler (Selke) to wing to accommodate someone like Kadri.
I'd rather move a physical two way guy like Richards (or Bozak) to the wing, and add that dimension to a line - guys who can play on the boards, in their own end, and take faceoffs - as opposed to taxing my center more... Just my preference - and I've already read a million and one complaints about Raymond not being physical enough to play on the 2nd line (but at least he backchecks like mad and helps Kesler in that sense more than people realized imo).

Philly wasn't loaded with centers when they had Richard and Carter - they got Schenn back in the Richards deal, Couturier in the Carter deal... aside from those two guys, they have Talbot and Rinaldo. They're loaded with wingers, which allowed them to move JVR...

Edited by oldnews, 01 December 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#1881 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

So the tables are turned - you're the Leafs and you want a 1st round pick (Colborne), a 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick for an aging 33 year old soon to be UFA blueliner (whose best days were clearly far behind him) in the form of Kaberle.
Oh, that's the price for a proven veteran who can help you in (or make) the playoffs?
In the end, Kaberle for Luongo.
The Leafs pull off a rare fleecing.


First of all, at the time of his trade, his best days were not "clearly far behind him". He was actually having one of the most productive offensive years of his career.

In addition, there are two pretty significant differences:
  • Boston was only married to him for the remainder of the year, as he was a UFA-to-be. This decreases Boston's risk, and thus increases Kaberle's value.
  • Boston clearly had targeted and wanted Kaberle very badly. Burke was likely able to get what he was for this very reason; he would've otherwise allowed Kaberle's contract to simply expire, and let him walk, so he had leverage in that respect.


#1882 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

VAN
JVR
Rielly
Biggs

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
Tanev

Please tell me you aren't serious.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1883 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

Schroeder was to be compared to Ashton, Kassian to Colbourne. Comparisons drawn from draft year/position. Really impossible to say that one player is "better" than another, at this point, since none are established NHLers.

Exchange Jensen for Kassian, than, whatever. Doesn't matter. Would you trade Schroeder & Jensen for the 33 year-old expensive goaltender that the Leafs need to get rid of?


Schroeder > Ashton
Kassian > Colbourne

We don't have as deep a prospect pool as they do so it is extremely difficult/impossible to give a comparison that is close to accurate or dead-on.

Plus our organizations are completely different, so it is hard for us to compare. if we had struggled for 8 years, and had a deep prospect pool, and Luongo would be that big of an acquisition for us, then yeah I wouldn't have a big problem giving up 1 or 2 decent prospects (aslong as they aren't the best, like they aren't in this situation).

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#1884 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

Aside from their draft position, world junior appearances, and stats I don't think you know how to evaluate a player's value at all. This is evident by how almost all hockey minds disagree with you.


These same "hockey minds" had a discussion earlier tonight about a Luongo trade to Florida for the small package of Jonathan Huberdeau, Alex Petrovic, Scott Clemmensen, and a 1st.

These are "hockey minds", to you?

This is the perfect reply to King's stupid 1st round pick assessment of value.


No it isn't, because none of the 6 players mentioned are established NHLers. At this point, they're all 1st round prospects of equivalent age and with roughly equivalent potential.

#1885 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

VAN
JVR
Rielly
Biggs

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
Tanev


Shouldn't the Leafs throw in their 1967 Stanley Cup banner, too?

#1886 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

To add...
Canucks gave up a top power forward, a 4th overall pick in Allen and a young starting goalie to get Lu.


That was when Lu was 27, regarded as a legitimate NHL franchise player. He was not 33, with a 10-year contract, being bailed on for a rookie starter from his team that he helped take to the SCF one year prior.

#1887 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

Schroeder > Ashton
Kassian > Colbourne


Says who? Canuck fan? Do you think Leaf fan would agree with this assessment?

What are you basing this on?

#1888 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

VAN
JVR
Rielly
Biggs

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
Tanev


This is Terrible, judging by the Way Burke talks about Rielly I don't think he would move Rielly and Biggs for this, let alone JVR.

If you want Rielly and JVR, Kesler will have to be added.

There's 0 chance we get either JVR or Rielly as far as i'm concerned.

Kadri is certainly not my idea of a top 6 RW - and I certainly don't move him (Selke) to wing to accommodate someone like Kadri.
I'd rather move a physical two way guy like Richards (or Bozak) to the wing, and add that dimension to a line - guys who can play on the boards, in their own end, and take faceoffs - as opposed to taxing my center more... Just my preference - and I've already read a million and one complaints about Raymond not being physical enough to play on the 2nd line (but backchecks like mad and helps Kesler in that sense more than people realized imo).


Richards? What Richards?

And Booth isn't all that defensive is he? That's what people complain about with him, so it's not like it's a completely two-way line to begin with.

First of all, at the time of his trade, his best days were not "clearly far behind him". He was actually having one of the most productive offensive years of his career.

In addition, there are two pretty significant differences:

  • Boston was only married to him for the remainder of the year, as he was a UFA-to-be. This decreases Boston's risk, and thus increases Kaberle's value.
  • Boston clearly had targeted and wanted Kaberle very badly. Burke was likely able to get what he was for this very reason; he would've otherwise allowed Kaberle's contract to simply expire, and let him walk, so he had leverage in that respect.


Toronto has targeted Lu and wanted Lu very badly aswell, this is no difference.

And Kaberle only have 1 year might be seen as more of a risk than a reward, as they pay a huge price to get him for a quarter (if that) of the season's then playoffs, and then he walks away as a UFA.

And also prior to the trade you could tell he was no longer the players he once was with McCabe, let's be honest.

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#1889 WiDeN

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

Schroeder was to be compared to Ashton, Kassian to Colbourne. Comparisons drawn from draft year/position. Really impossible to say that one player is "better" than another, at this point, since none are established NHLers.

Exchange Jensen for Kassian, than, whatever. Doesn't matter. Would you trade Schroeder & Jensen for the 33 year-old expensive goaltender that the Leafs need to get rid of?

Oh ya, damn straight I would. If goaltending was our biggest need, then absolutely.

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#1890 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

Says who? Canuck fan? Do you think Leaf fan would agree with this assessment?

What are you basing this on?


Well first off the Stats (that you love so much), and then way they are currently playing.

Kassian has 12 Points in 18 Games and he has been on the Wolves top line alot of the time, or else if not on the 2nd line. He has been a physical presence, he fights, hits and uses his size well to create chances.

Colbourne Has 6 Points in 18 Games. tonight he was on the 3rd line. He has had sometime on the 2nd. From what myself and other's have seen we all seems to say the same thing, he doesn't use his size well, doesn't create offense.

Kassian > Colbourne.



Schroeder has 12 Points in 19 Games, he had a a bit of a rough start but this month he has probably one of if not the Wolves best forward. He has spent most of his time on the 2nd line.

Ashton has 7 points in 19 Games. He has been on the 2nd line most of his time like Schroeder (from what I have seen) he battles & skates hard but doesn't seem to do much, doesn't create alot of chances.

Schroeder > Ashton.

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