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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#2101 theminister

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

I'm watching the Heat vs Rampage game right now and I'll tell you if the Canucks could get Shore and Petrovic along with a player like Matthias or Goc as well they should jump on that like fat kid on a smartie.

These kids are both players.

Edited by theminister, 05 December 2012 - 09:06 PM.

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#2102 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

man are a bunch of you gonna be Pi$$'d when Cory is traded....................


I would not be surprised as it is the more logical choice. Buy low (draft), sell high (sound development). There are, however, an extended amount of emotion involved regarding the Luongo fiasco which makes a Luongo trade more probable than a Schneider trade, though a Schneider trade is not impossible.

What irks me is the refusal to discuss this possibility which is in effect, related to the Luongo affair.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 05 December 2012 - 09:03 PM.

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#2103 Pears

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:05 PM

I would not be surprised as it is the more logical choice. Buy low (draft), sell high (sound development). There are, however, an extended amount of emotion involved regarding the Luongo fiasco which makes a Luongo trade more probable than a Schneider trade, though a Schneider trade is not impossible.

What irks me is the refusal to discuss this possibility which is in effect, related to the Luongo affair.

I see where you are coming from. But unless MG gets an offer for Schneider that knocks him on to his rear Luongo is the one that will be shown the door.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#2104 wshdrvvn

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

I would not be surprised as it is the more logical choice. Buy low (draft), sell high (sound development). There are, however, an extended amount of emotion involved regarding the Luongo fiasco which makes a Luongo trade more probable than a Schneider trade, though a Schneider trade is not impossible.

What irks me is the refusal to discuss this possibility which is in effect, related to the Luongo affair.


Not trolling you but why keep luo?  He's put some trophies in the cabinet for us sure, but I (like many on here) believe schneider is more valuable to us on this team rather than a nice trading chip.  Luongo's value is enough that we can get the few pieces we need to take a couple shots at the cup in the next few years.   I'd say the Luo situation has been mishandled pretty severly.  Our ownership tries to play things close to the chest all the time, then when they really should have, they kinda blew it.  I think that has a lot to do with everyone saying ship him out.  Do you think he would really want to stay after all the drama that has played out?

Edited by wshdrvvn, 05 December 2012 - 09:39 PM.

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#2105 smurf47

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

Not trolling you but why keep luo? He's put some trophies in the cabinet for us sure, but I (like many on here) believe schneider is more valuable to us on this team rather than a nice trading chip. Luongo's value is enough that we can get the few pieces we need to take a couple shots at the cup in the next few years. I'd say the Luo situation has been mishandled pretty severly. Our ownership tries to play things close to the chest all the time, then when they really should have, they kinda blew it. I think that has a lot to do with everyone saying ship him out. Do you think he would really want to stay after all the drama that has played out?

I believe the lack of a new CBA is the reason nothings happened. Teams want, and wanted to see where the cap is and where they stand financially. I think its highly feasable that Lou would have been traded except for the CBA.
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#2106 WiDeN

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

You're clearly not seeing the risk in even that taking place. Consider the outcomes:

-Luongo clearly outplays Schneider. That makes it pretty difficult for us to trade Luongo, then, does it not?
-Schneider clearly outplays Luongo. This obviously has a further negative effect on demand for Luongo.

The only outcome that would be ideal would be a 50/50 split (roughly) in playing time, and practically equal stats. That's possible, but not likely. In addition, I would suspect that in doing this, you've pissed off both goaltenders, because both will be under unbelievably heavy pressure to perform (Schneider to assert himself as #1, Luongo to assert that he's also still a #1). Bad situation all-around.

We aren't playing to increase value. We are playing to win. If management and coaching thinks we have a better shot at winning with him than we do with the pieces we've been offered, then he will be on our team. I am quite OK with that.
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#2107 Malkin Cookies

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...54644--nhl.html

i found this pretty funny

any thoughts?
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#2108 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

Playing 60 games in a short period of time will be hard on players, particularly goalies. There will be increased risk of injury. I think unless MG gets a offer he can't refuse Luongo will stay a Canuck for this season.

He might even take the starting job back and win a cup.
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#2109 smurf47

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:50 PM

Playing 60 games in a short period of time will be hard on players, particularly goalies. There will be increased risk of injury. I think unless MG gets a offer he can't refuse Luongo will stay a Canuck for this season.

He might even take the starting job back and win a cup.

Makes one wonder why Lou, being an historically slow starter is not playing somewhere to be in game shape like Schneider. Any thoughts?
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#2110 wshdrvvn

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

Playing 60 games in a short period of time will be hard on players, particularly goalies. There will be increased risk of injury. I think unless MG gets a offer he can't refuse Luongo will stay a Canuck for this season.

He might even take the starting job back and win a cup.


I could see that playing out. Maybe some real competition where he isn't the front runner from the gate would do him some good.
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#2111 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

I see where you are coming from. But unless MG gets an offer for Schneider that knocks him on to his rear Luongo is the one that will be shown the door.


Almost assuredly yes.
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#2112 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

Makes one wonder why Lou, being an historically slow starter is not playing somewhere to be in game shape like Schneider. Any thoughts?


Thoughts? How about being vindictive and still, after some rare posters dare share their thoughts on the matter, still rehashing the same vindictive thoughts...

Thoughts?

Even you, goaltending guru of all time can see how having two bonafide elite goaltenders for a 60 game shortened season would benefit any team.


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#2113 smurf47

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

Thoughts? How about being vindictive and still, after some rare posters dare share their thoughts on the matter, still rehashing the same vindictive thoughts...

Thoughts?

Even you, goaltending guru of all time can see how having two bonafide elite goaltenders for a 60 game shortened season would benefit any team.

The question was...why is he not playing somewhere during lockout to get in game shape ...or was that too much for you to absorb in your condescending head ? Simple question to the forum.
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#2114 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:58 AM

Makes one wonder why Lou, being an historically slow starter is not playing somewhere to be in game shape like Schneider. Any thoughts?



I don't see too many goalies going over to Europe. Lundqvist is the only high profile one and he's playing for his former club Frolunda in Sweden. There have been many reports about European clubs being unwilling to take in NHL goalies to replace their own. The reasons are they don't want to lose their own goalies for bringing in a goalie who could be gone after a hand full of games. Euro clubs don't want to waste a import roster spot on a goalie. Even Schneider had trouble finding work, he was able to get around the import player tag because of his Swiss heritage and he's only played 2 games so far.

Another prohibitive measure would be cost of insurance. Luongo has a pretty big contract and it would cost a hefty sum to insure. Crosby was unable to find work because Euro clubs have been unwilling to pay his $400 k insurance cost. Luongo doesn't have the injury history of Crosby but his insurance cost would be significant. European clubs just don't have the budgets for these types of costs.

It's so ruff on goalies that they are hauling around their equipment all over North America just to get good practice in. I recently read a article on Devan Dubnyk going to Dallas and PHX and back to Edmonton just to get good practice. Dubnyk also gave above mentioned reasons for not being able to find work.

Where do you think Luongo should be playing?
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#2115 smurf47

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:48 AM

I don't see too many goalies going over to Europe. Lundqvist is the only high profile one and he's playing for his former club Frolunda in Sweden. There have been many reports about European clubs being unwilling to take in NHL goalies to replace their own. The reasons are they don't want to lose their own goalies for bringing in a goalie who could be gone after a hand full of games. Euro clubs don't want to waste a import roster spot on a goalie. Even Schneider had trouble finding work, he was able to get around the import player tag because of his Swiss heritage and he's only played 2 games so far.

Another prohibitive measure would be cost of insurance. Luongo has a pretty big contract and it would cost a hefty sum to insure. Crosby was unable to find work because Euro clubs have been unwilling to pay his $400 k insurance cost. Luongo doesn't have the injury history of Crosby but his insurance cost would be significant. European clubs just don't have the budgets for these types of costs.

It's so ruff on goalies that they are hauling around their equipment all over North America just to get good practice in. I recently read a article on Devan Dubnyk going to Dallas and PHX and back to Edmonton just to get good practice. Dubnyk also gave above mentioned reasons for not being able to find work.

Where do you think Luongo should be playing?

great post and makes sense due to costs involved. I had no thoughts on where he should play, only that i thought it would be good for him if he did.
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#2116 brewdog

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

Maybe Gillis begged him not to play competetively during the summer due to risk of injury. An injured Luongo during a 56-game season would be a bloody tough trade once the CBA is resolved. :)
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#2117 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:39 AM

FWIW came across a rumor that Toronto's latest package offer is:

Bozak, Kadri, Holzer, Komarov and a conditional pick (not 1st rounder; based on playoffs)

For

Luongo, Raymond, Rai and a 3rd Rounder

Hmm...

Much more interesting than just Bozak + Kadri, I don't know much about Komarov, but Holzer then the pick (Hopefully 2nd round, or 3rd) would be much nicer than just Bozak and Kadri for Lu, even with the additional parts we add.

The base of the deal is pretty much the same however.


So you are trading a 3rd rounder for a 3rd rounder. Hopefully moving up a few spots, Raymond + Rai for Kamarov and Holzer.

The rest is same, Luongo for Kadri and Bozak.

IMO its not a good idea to trade Raymond for Kamarov, Holzer and exchange of draft positions in the 3rd. Raymond provides a lot of depth especially in the playoffs. He can move up down the lineup from 2nd to fourth lines. He's an excellent penalty killer, has tons of speed and is due for a bounce back year going into UFA.

He's a former 20 goal scorer and is itching to get a good season in, particularly after a terrible injury which should be fully healed by now. Right now is not the time to trade Raymond as his trade value is low. Especially not a good idea to trade him for a couple of guys who won't be able to crack the Canucks lineup.

I can't see MG doing this at all.

Edited by WHL rocks, 06 December 2012 - 02:48 AM.

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#2118 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:23 AM

I'm not going to take the ES route and discredit Luongo's value. What I will say is that he is 33, he will be 34 after a shortened season. Goalies sometimes play into their 40s, and I'm sure Luongo would be good for the next 5 or so years. His accomplishments that you listed certainly benefit us in a trade.

The most important thing we get back in this trade is YOUTH, we get a 26 y/o Bozak who put up 47 points last year and some highlight reel goals. We get a young top prospect in Kadri, who could very well benefit without the constant Toronto spotlight playing for either the Marlies/Leafs. The numbers don't lie with Kadri, who has been a ppg forward in the AHL in his first two years. I'm not over the moon with Kadri either, and even in my post I said he probably wouldn't crack our lineup. What he does do is give us insurance down the road, for when the Sedins retire and Kesler/Booth move past their prime. We would ideally require someone with raw offensive instincts like Kadri to take the reigns. With our team being deep and our core being set the Kadri development curve could be a little longer than the Leafs frequent pressure on a KID to be their saviour. I'm surprised he hasn't been institutionalized. The pick is of course a bonus.

Luongo is on his way out, and I'm not sure why some people still think a Schneider trade is a possibility. The fact that other teams know Luongo HAS to be moved significantly impacts what teams are willing to pay for Luongo. I'm of the opinion that a Petrovic/Bjugstad return for Luongo would be magnificent. Neither of these two players would even be an option to play for the Canucks this year. With that said I think the rumoured Kadri/Bozak trade would be a decent return.


I live in Toronto and have watched Kadri many times. He is junk. He will be a career AHL'er or a guy who bounces around and around. Alot of players put up points in the AHL and can't convert that to the NHL here's a few:

Josh Holden - remember him? Probably a good comp almost a ppg in the AHL over a number of years never did anything
Jason Krog - remember him? what has he done, that guy lights it up in the AHL

I could go on and on.

There is a big step from the AHL to the NHL and some of the most important factors are:

1. Either size or speed, preferably both, but you can't have neither. Kadri has neither. He is a tweener

2. Intensity and desire to make it. The kid was called fat by Burke this year when he showed to camp. Is that commitment? Not to mention as I said prior, 6th overall, supposedly offensively talented center, can't make one of the worst teams in the league in need of an offensively talented center in three years? really? and you think he can make the jump? Just because the Hockey News said he was ranked high doesn't mean he's capable of playing at the NHL level.

3. Defensively responsible, kind of ties into number one, which he is not. Which we know = AV's doghouse.

4. Courage. Courage to go to the hard spots, to take a hit, to get manhandled to make a play to drive to the net knowing you're going to get smoked by a dman. He plays on the fringes like Raymond, we don't need a slightly larger MayRay without the speed. That works in the AHL, you can't play on the fringes in the NHL and put up numbers, ie the reason along with his committment to the game that he hasn't in three years shown any hints of being even capable of being not only a second line nhl'er but even an nhl'er at all.

And you say pressure is the cause of his failures? He has been given every oppty to show he can play at the NHL level, they are trying their best to ensure he isn't a bust as he was Burke's first draft pick as the Lafs GM...Maybe he's just not good, and see the fat comment above again..


Kadri is junk and will be a rape from the Leafs.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 December 2012 - 03:31 AM.

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#2119 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

I live in Toronto and have watched Kadri many times. He is junk. He will be a career AHL'er or a guy who bounces around and around. Alot of players put up points in the AHL and can't convert that to the NHL here's a few:

Josh Holden - remember him? Probably a good comp almost a ppg in the AHL over a number of years never did anything
Jason Krog - remember him? what has he done, that guy lights it up in the AHL

I could go on and on.

There is a big step from the AHL to the NHL and some of the most important factors are:

1. Either size or speed, preferably both, but you can't have neither. Kadri has neither. He is a tweener

2. Intensity and desire to make it. The kid was called fat by Burke this year when he showed to camp. Is that commitment? Not to mention as I said prior, 6th overall, supposedly offensively talented center, can't make one of the worst teams in the league in need of an offensively talented center in three years? really? and you think he can make the jump? Just because the Hockey News said he was ranked high doesn't mean he's capable of playing at the NHL level.

3. You say pressure? He has been given every oppty to show he can play at the NHL level, they are trying their best to ensure he isn't a bust as he was Burke's first draft pick as the Lafs GM...Maybe he's just not good, and see the fat comment above again..

4. Defensively responsible, kind of ties into number one, which he is not. Which we know = AV's doghouse

5. Courage. Courage to go to the hard spots, to take a hit, to get manhandled to make a play to drive to the net knowing you're going to get smoked by a dman. He plays on the fringes like Raymond, we don't need a slightly larger MayRay without the speed. That works in the AHL, you can't play on the fringes in the NHL and put up numbers, ie the reason along with his committment to the game that he hasn't in three years shown any hints of being even capable of being not only a second line nhl'er but even an nhl'er at all.

Kadri is junk and will be a rape from the Leafs.


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#2120 King of the ES

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:40 AM

We aren't playing to increase value. We are playing to win. If management and coaching thinks we have a better shot at winning with him than we do with the pieces we've been offered, then he will be on our team. I am quite OK with that.


Fair point. Well said.

But even that doesn't remove the fact that we would very likely have two pissed off goalies if this happens, and the risks that I've laid out are unchanged.
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#2121 King of the ES

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

There is a big step from the AHL to the NHL and some of the most important factors are:

1. Either size or speed, preferably both, but you can't have neither. Kadri has neither. He is a tweener

2. Intensity and desire to make it. The kid was called fat by Burke this year when he showed to camp. Is that commitment? Not to mention as I said prior, 6th overall, supposedly offensively talented center, can't make one of the worst teams in the league in need of an offensively talented center in three years? really? and you think he can make the jump? Just because the Hockey News said he was ranked high doesn't mean he's capable of playing at the NHL level.

3. Defensively responsible, kind of ties into number one, which he is not. Which we know = AV's doghouse.

4. Courage. Courage to go to the hard spots, to take a hit, to get manhandled to make a play to drive to the net knowing you're going to get smoked by a dman. He plays on the fringes like Raymond, we don't need a slightly larger MayRay without the speed. That works in the AHL, you can't play on the fringes in the NHL and put up numbers, ie the reason along with his committment to the game that he hasn't in three years shown any hints of being even capable of being not only a second line nhl'er but even an nhl'er at all.


#1: Not true. Cody Hodgson is a very recent example of a guy who has neither. And he didn't even put up good numbers in the AHL.

#2: This is always a concern, but I don't think showing up to camp with a higher level of bodyfat means that this is the case. Maybe he's trying to put on weight. Bodyfat is often a result of trying to bulk up - not easy at all to gain "pure" muscle. Arniel had made some comments recently about Kassian that suggest that his commitment level might be questionable, too. I think what it often is with young "high-end" types they're so used to being dominant, without much effort, that that is no more when they hit the AHL.

#3 & #4, I haven't really seen enough of him to comment.
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#2122 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:33 AM

So you are trading a 3rd rounder for a 3rd rounder. Hopefully moving up a few spots, Raymond + Rai for Kamarov and Holzer.

The rest is same, Luongo for Kadri and Bozak.

IMO its not a good idea to trade Raymond for Kamarov, Holzer and exchange of draft positions in the 3rd. Raymond provides a lot of depth especially in the playoffs. He can move up down the lineup from 2nd to fourth lines. He's an excellent penalty killer, has tons of speed and is due for a bounce back year going into UFA.

He's a former 20 goal scorer and is itching to get a good season in, particularly after a terrible injury which should be fully healed by now. Right now is not the time to trade Raymond as his trade value is low. Especially not a good idea to trade him for a couple of guys who won't be able to crack the Canucks lineup.

I can't see MG doing this at all.


I dont know enough about Kamarov to say if hes an upgrade on Raymond but i Like Holzer (think he is better than hes given credit for) and a 3rd in a draft like this is a nice thing to pickup, especially for a low price like Rai
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#2123 Vansicle

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

Maybe Gillis begged him not to play competetively during the summer due to risk of injury. An injured Luongo during a 56-game season would be a bloody tough trade once the CBA is resolved. :)

Good point.
And if Schneider were being shopped, MG would almost certainly have begged him not to play as well. The same set of concerns would apply, no? But management has not come out and declared that Lou is absolutely being traded, so there is no way to tell which goal tender will be traded, or if either of them will be traded at all, lol.

Edited by Vansicle, 06 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.

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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#2124 D-Money

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

I live in Toronto and have watched Kadri many times. He is junk. He will be a career AHL'er or a guy who bounces around and around...


Kadri has produced at every level. Even his 19 points in his first 51 NHL games (with limited minutes) isn't all that bad.

He's not big, but he's not small either. He can throw a decent hit - had more than 1/game in his NHL duty last season (about the same rate of hitting as Burrows). He isn't a soft player.

He may not be a defensive specialist, but he doesn't seem to be a liability. He had a takeaway ratio on par with Henrik Sedin last year. So he can create turnovers and get the puck back. Of course, we have lots of strong defensive specialist centers - what we could use is one more who can put the puck in the net.

To top all of this off, he just turned 22 in October. To say he has had every chance to crack an NHL roster ready is ridiculous, because he hasn't even had the chance to finish developing (not every kid is ready for the NHL right away).

What makes it even harder on him are the sky-high expectations of people like you, who were calling him a bust before he was even allowed to drink on a US road trip. Just because Toronto has slim pickings for offensively skilled prospects, doesn't mean Kadri will magically develop faster.
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#2125 Squeak

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

Holzer, Kamarov both drafted in 06', I'd be surprised if they're still Leafs property. Raymond being moved is interesting, and I can only assume Rai is a contract dump. The core of the deal is the same as what we've heard.


Both are signed; both WERE playing on the Marlies. Komarov asked to be assigned to the KHL, as he wasn't playing enough in the AHL, but will be back once the lockout is over.

Komarov:
http://capgeek.com/player/2280

Holzer:
http://capgeek.com/player/1759
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#2126 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

I can't say I'm overly impressed by the latest rumour of Bozak and Kadri for Luongo. This does not seem to be enough of a return.

Bozak does look like a good player who would serve well at 3C. However, due to the shortened season, Bozak is (to my mind) the equivalent of a deadline rental. As has been noted, he will be a UFA at the end of the season, and as such, I believe Gillis could probably pick him up for perhaps only a third round (lower?) pick. Why include him in a deal for Luongo? And if he is in the Luongo deal, and he chooses to walk as a UFA, the deal then becomes Luongo for Kadri.

Kadri might indeed have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and has decided to play with a more professional attitude with regard to staying in shape and his interactions with the Leafs. This being said, if he is unhappy being down the depth chart of the Leafs, why would he be any happier being with the Canucks where he could only hope for 3C minutes until Sedin retires (maybe in two years, maybe longer)? I'm not saying he'd be awful as a Canuck, but he just may view the situation from a "What is best for Nazem Kadri?" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with this), and if he does, he just might walk as soon as possible to explore greener pastures. If that is the case, the deal then becomes Luongo for .....?

If the Komorov and Holzer additions are true, they might be nice additions, but they are hardly something to point to and say, "Hey, those are the guys we got for Luongo."

regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#2127 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

I can't say I'm overly impressed by the latest rumour of Bozak and Kadri for Luongo. This does not seem to be enough of a return.

Bozak does look like a good player who would serve well at 3C. However, due to the shortened season, Bozak is (to my mind) the equivalent of a deadline rental. As has been noted, he will be a UFA at the end of the season, and as such, I believe Gillis could probably pick him up for perhaps only a third round (lower?) pick. Why include him in a deal for Luongo? And if he is in the Luongo deal, and he chooses to walk as a UFA, the deal then becomes Luongo for Kadri.

Kadri might indeed have seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and has decided to play with a more professional attitude with regard to staying in shape and his interactions with the Leafs. This being said, if he is unhappy being down the depth chart of the Leafs, why would he be any happier being with the Canucks where he could only hope for 3C minutes until Sedin retires (maybe in two years, maybe longer)? I'm not saying he'd be awful as a Canuck, but he just may view the situation from a "What is best for Nazem Kadri?" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with this), and if he does, he just might walk as soon as possible to explore greener pastures. If that is the case, the deal then becomes Luongo for .....?

If the Komorov and Holzer additions are true, they might be nice additions, but they are hardly something to point to and say, "Hey, those are the guys we got for Luongo."

regards,
G.


I blatantly refuse to discuss the Bozak/ Kadri possibility for the reasons stated above. Makes no sense at all.

I'd rather keep Luongo than trade him for a bottom feeder's scrap parts.

People are just starved for action. Any action. Any price, for any piece.

NHL
D. Sedin (getting too old)
H. Sedin (getting too old)

VAN
Three unborn future NHL players (embryos have a full potential to be stars in this league 33+ year commitment)

At least we get something!

(Disclosure for the finickies; I do realize this is utter exaggeration)

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 06 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

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#2128 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

#1: Not true. Cody Hodgson is a very recent example of a guy who has neither. And he didn't even put up good numbers in the AHL.

#2: This is always a concern, but I don't think showing up to camp with a higher level of bodyfat means that this is the case. Maybe he's trying to put on weight. Bodyfat is often a result of trying to bulk up - not easy at all to gain "pure" muscle. Arniel had made some comments recently about Kassian that suggest that his commitment level might be questionable, too. I think what it often is with young "high-end" types they're so used to being dominant, without much effort, that that is no more when they hit the AHL.

#3 & #4, I haven't really seen enough of him to comment.


Sorry but Brian Burke calling you fat is somehow being spun by you into a positive?

Look we can argue till we're blue in the face. I live in t.o have been to a ton of leafs games and have seen kadri play in many of the games he's played in the nhl and watch the marlies regularly.

You on the other hand and many others on the board are likely in vancouver and have not watched much of him (and I am assuming here so forgive me if incorrect). That being said, reading about a player in the press is very different from watching him on the ice. People look at where he was drafted and assume he "has to be good, he was 6th overall dammit" well...he's a bust.

Again, all you have to look at is:

1. Leafs bottom 10 in the league since he's been drafted.
2. In desperate need of an offensive center, even today they still don't have a true number one. So much so JVR is being moved to Center (Grabo good number 2).
3. Thus there is a hole he should be filling on a NON PLAYOFF team.
4. A center for Kessel, a true sniper needed, a guy who has offensive instincts and can pass.
5. 3 year pro, drafted 6th overall for those qualities
6. To date has done nothing on team, and not even made a team that is starving for a player with his so called talents, a team that again, can't even make the playoffs, so how much competition is there? And they don't even have centers...and he still can't make it, on a team that has really only one #2 center and can't make the playoffs...hmmm
7. Shows up to camp out of shape in a year where he needs to show he is ready to jump and committed
8. Perhaps there's a reason the leafs are willing to part with him???

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 December 2012 - 03:59 PM.

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#2129 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

Kadri has produced at every level. Even his 19 points in his first 51 NHL games (with limited minutes) isn't all that bad.

He's not big, but he's not small either. He can throw a decent hit - had more than 1/game in his NHL duty last season (about the same rate of hitting as Burrows). He isn't a soft player.

He may not be a defensive specialist, but he doesn't seem to be a liability. He had a takeaway ratio on par with Henrik Sedin last year. So he can create turnovers and get the puck back. Of course, we have lots of strong defensive specialist centers - what we could use is one more who can put the puck in the net.

To top all of this off, he just turned 22 in October. To say he has had every chance to crack an NHL roster ready is ridiculous, because he hasn't even had the chance to finish developing (not every kid is ready for the NHL right away).

What makes it even harder on him are the sky-high expectations of people like you, who were calling him a bust before he was even allowed to drink on a US road trip. Just because Toronto has slim pickings for offensively skilled prospects, doesn't mean Kadri will magically develop faster.


Dude, you lost me at he can throw a decent hit...where on NHL 13? Lol...they guy is as soft as they come. The only difference between him and MayRay is Raymond falls down at least because he is skating fast...

Your comments clearly have not come from watching this guy play hockey. Call up any leaf fan and ask if they would want a Bozak/Kadri deal for Lou...they would laugh and say hell ya, if we can get Lou for spare parts and never makes it for sure..

Dude, people boo in the ACC when he plays...

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 December 2012 - 04:03 PM.

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#2130 oldnews

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

I'm watching the Heat vs Rampage game right now and I'll tell you if the Canucks could get Shore and Petrovic along with a player like Matthias or Goc as well they should jump on that like fat kid on a smartie.

These kids are both players.


I agree - I still like a deal with Florida, and I'd really like to see Petrovic included - the Canucks don't have any young blueliners like him in the system.
I also am not dead set on Bjugstad being included in a deal - the Canucks now have Gaunce in the system - and picking up a center like Matthias in some ways might make more sense - he is NHL ready, he is a good candidate for the third line, he is only an 850k cap hit (and will be an RFA next year who won't command an exhorbitant raise, as opposed to the UFA Bozak) - and he gives the Canucks a solid viable option, along with giving Schroeder a shot. Matthias is improving, and it's worth keeping in mind that his numbers in his first full season (10 goals, 24 points) come while playing on the offensively challenged Panthers.
If the Canucks can't add a power forward right winger for the second line (I have someone like Okposo in mind) then I don't see it as terribly urgent that the roster player that comes back in a Luongo deal be the principle player in the deal.
A player like Shore is also a reasonable addition who deepens the growing prospect pool at center - he is also a good young two way center who has solid third line potential - and in Florida he is behind players like Huberdeau, Bjugstad, and Howden - they can afford to move a B+ prospect like Shore.

Substitute Matthias and Shore for Bjugstad, keep Petrovic in the deal, and perhaps shed a bit of salary in a player like Upshall who could make sense to Vancouver, and I like that deal.
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